Merging Haiti and the Dominican Republic for mutual benefit???

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mountainannie

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shawn27 said:
mountainannie said:
Annie Haiti is hardly independent... My definition of an independent state is one that can exist without the aid of others. What would happen if all these aid groups, doctors without borders etc just up and left Haiti? I can't even imagine. Haiti is a degenerate state for a variety of reasons that have already been discussed.

I'm not so sure that Haitians would reject the idea of becoming a commonwealth. I remember after the earthquake they were interviewing Haitians who kept asking "Why haven't THEY helped us, we need help. This indicates to me that the Haitian government cannot help it's own people without international aid. The Haitian people know this. An earthquake rocked Chile shortly after Haiti and the Chilean predient proudly stated that they didnt need any help. I'm sure if an earthquake hit DR they wouldn't need as much help as Haiti did. Not to mention the poor infrastruture of buildings in Haiti played a huge part of the devastation.
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Shawn.. I am sure that if the DR were offered Associated Free State Status, there are many here who would take it, as well... Then there would be revolutionary leadings and groups and a huge anti American thing....

The money that the US gives to Puerto Rico is being cut every year. Since Vieques and Roosevelt Roads closed, they are no longer useful to the US. While there are many in PR who think that they might achieve statehood, there are very few who would willingly give up Spanish education ....

I am just saying that this is a completely unrealistic solution. Haiti would not accept France (note that Sarkosy was the FIRST French President to visit) and the US would not accept Haiti.

While the power behind Haiti does indeed rest in the donor nations, that is as far as it will go.
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shawn27

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mountainannie said:
shawn27 said:
Shawn.. I am sure that if the DR were offered Associated Free State Status, there are many here who would take it, as well... Then there would be revolutionary leadings and groups and a huge anti American thing....

The money that the US gives to Puerto Rico is being cut every year. Since Vieques and Roosevelt Roads closed, they are no longer useful to the US. While there are many in PR who think that they might achieve statehood, there are very few who would willingly give up Spanish education ....

I am just saying that this is a completely unrealistic solution. Haiti would not accept France (note that Sarkosy was the FIRST French President to visit) and the US would not accept Haiti.

While the power behind Haiti does indeed rest in the donor nations, that is as far as it will go.
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Annie we will have to agree to disagree. I think Haitians would gladly welcome becoming a commonwealth.
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bienamor

bienamor

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shawn27 said:
NALs said:
I'm not so sure if Puerto Rico would be the poorest state. You do have some states such as North Dakota that have essentially nothing to offer for tourism or what not. !
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You must be from one of the coasts, definitely not from flyover country! North Dakota does have some tourism and currently has a 3.5 uemployment rate, lowest in the USA.
Remember tourism is not just sun and beach.
North Dakota Tourism - Official Site of North Dakota Department of Commerce - Tourism Division
Tourism is a $4.13 billion industry in North Dakota, employing more than 31,000 annually. For the 2009 Annual Report see the Document Resources listed
Unemployment Rates for States unemployment rates across the USA

Want a poor state try Akansas, Mississippi.
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shawn27

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Africaida said:
shawn27 said:
True but it is also up to the Haitian people........;)
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I think they would jump on it. One thing is to be proud, another thing is to be foolish. I keep bringing up Puerto Rico. They are extremely proud, it is a commonwealth of the US but lord knows what would happen if you were to call a Puerto Rican American... They have their own culture, their own rep for things like Miss Universe etc, I'm sure Haiti would welcome being a commonwealth of a bigger country.

I just don't think that Haiti can continue to be run by all of these international aid groups. One can aruge that these groups already run Haiti to some extent. How much power does Preval really have? He seems like a weak president to me. Remember after the earthquake when the US "set up" control at the airport? The government has so little power...
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shawn27

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bienamor said:
shawn27 said:
You must be from one of the coasts, definitely not from flyover country! North Dakota does have some tourism and currently has a 3.5 uemployment rate, lowest in the USA.
Remember tourism is not just sun and beach.
North Dakota Tourism - Official Site of North Dakota Department of Commerce - Tourism Division
Tourism is a $4.13 billion industry in North Dakota, employing more than 31,000 annually. For the 2009 Annual Report see the Document Resources listed
Unemployment Rates for States unemployment rates across the USA

Want a poor state try Akansas, Mississippi.
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Actually I made that statement. Lets not veer off track, but North Dakota is the least visited state in the union. Do you know anyone that has been to ND? And of course they have low unemployment because they barely have half a million people.. and yes I'm from miami.
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greydread

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shawn27 said:
mountainannie said:
Annie we will have to agree to disagree. I think Haitians would gladly welcome becoming a commonwealth.
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The United States has absolutely nothing to gain from this unless Al Qaeda opened up shop there. The Cold War is over and so are the "good times" and government cheese..

Speaking of government cheese, Puerto Rico can't be compared. They have been given the right to vote their own future by the US congress and Puerto Ricans are currently undecided between independence, Statehood or status quo. Congress even defeated a bill which would require PR to adopt English as its official language as a condition of Statehood.

Congress approves referendum on future of Puerto Rico - USATODAY.com

If they chose Statehood, Puerto Rico would immediately gain 6 seats in the House of Representatives (currently only 1 "shadow" congressman), 2 Senate seats, popular vote in Presidential elections and matching federal funding for schools, transportation, etc. but the downside is that they'd have to start paying Federal Income Tax and federal aid to dependent children would be cut and left to the State.

The way the federal budget is looking right now it would be in the best interest of the US to divest itself from a fully independent Puerto Rican nation.

Freedom ain't free.
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shawn27

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greydread said:
shawn27 said:
The United States has absolutely nothing to gain from this unless Al Qaeda opened up shop there. The Cold War is over and so are the "good times" and government cheese..

Speaking of government cheese, Puerto Rico can't be compared. They have been given the right to vote their own future by the US congress and Puerto Ricans are currently undecided between independence, Statehood or status quo. Congress even defeated a bill which would require PR to adopt English as its official language as a condition of Statehood.

Congress approves referendum on future of Puerto Rico - USATODAY.com

If they chose Statehood, Puerto Rico would immediately gain 6 seats in the House of Representatives (currently only 1 "shadow" congressman), 2 Senate seats, popular vote in Presidential elections and matching federal funding for schools, transportation, etc. but the downside is that they'd have to start paying Federal Income Tax and federal aid to dependent children would be cut and left to the State.

The way the federal budget is looking right now it would be in the best interest of the US to divest itself from a fully independent Puerto Rican nation.

Freedom ain't free.
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Not sure what your point is. The same guidelines that Puerto Rico have with the US don't necessarily have to apply to Haiti. Obviously these are just my opinions, I think we can all agree that something must be done, especially when you have these old preventable diseases such of cholera springing up in Haiti... Of course the worst suggestion being DR and Haiti merging.
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Chip

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greydread said:
...and Puerto Ricans are currently undecided between independence, Statehood or status quo.
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The public votes comes up every so often in PR and the majority of boricuas apparently don't want to change the status quo. It is therefore incorrect to say they are undecided.
 
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greydread

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shawn27 said:
greydread said:
Not sure what your point is. The same guidelines that Puerto Rico have with the US don't necessarily have to apply to Haiti. Obviously these are just my opinions, I think we can all agree that something must be done, especially when you have these old preventable diseases such of cholera springing up in Haiti... Of course the worst suggestion being DR and Haiti merging.
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My point is that the US doesn't want Haiti any more than France or the Dominican Republic. The US would also like to rid itself the other "territories" and add them all to the "Gained independence" list

Territory Capital Year Acquired:
Midway Islands None 1867
Puerto Rico San Juan 1898
American Samoa Pago Pago 1899
Virgin Islands Charlotte Amalie 1927
Federated States of Micronesia Pohnpei 1947; Gained independence in 1986. Currently in Free Association with the United States
Marshall Islands Majuro 1947; Gained independence in 1990. Currently in Free Association with the United States
Northern Mariana Islands Saipan 1947
Palua Koror 1947; Gained independence in 1994. Currently in Free Association with the United States
Guam Agana 1950
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greydread

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Chip said:
The public votes comes up every so often in PR and the majority of boricuas apparently don't want to change the status quo. It is therefore incorrect to say they are undecided.
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Correctly presented, my statement should have been that "Puerto Rico cannot decide between Statehood or Independence so the status quo is maintained" but of course the vote for "Statehood" until now was a hollow promise right up until this year when Congress voted to make Puerto Rican acceptance into Statehood an official possibility and cement the terms of accomodation.

Now the choice of the people of Puerto Rico for Statehood would be an actionable mandate unlike in past elections.
 
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greydread

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Chip said:
This has been put to vote numerous times and the boricuas have decided their future each time by vote so it is not correct to say they cannot decide.

Political status of Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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They weren't voting for Statehood.

They were voting to petition for Statehood.

There were many roadblock to their actually achieving Statehood, chief among which were the English language and 2nd ammendment issues.

The United Stated Congress has only recently (May 2010) voted to remove these and other roadblocks to Puerto Rican Statehood.

The next time they vote, for the 1st time EVER they WILL be voting for or against Statehood as has been approved by the United States Congress.

Daam :eek:gre:
 
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