Si and the subjunctive

[rolfdog]

When does the preposition "si" (if) require the subjunctive mood? I sometimes hear and read it with the indicative mood. And If there ever were (was) a reason to use the subjuncive. it should be following "si".

Steve

 

[Norma Rosa]

When does the preposition "si" (if) require the subjunctive mood? I sometimes hear and read it with the indicative mood. And If there ever were (was) a reason to use the subjuncive. it should be following "si".

Steve

Keep in mind that the subjunctive is used to express desires, doubts, possibilities, opinions. Therefore, you can use the subjunctive if that is what you want to express.

Desire:
Si yo estuviera (estuviese) con ella, (ser?a el hombre m?s feliz del mundo.)

possibility:
Si la pr?xima vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero, (podr?a sacar la pistola.)


The subjunctive also follows ?si? in some of the perfect and progressive tenses:

plu-perfect: Si lo hubiera (hubiese) sabido, te lo habr?a dicho.

plu-perfect progressive: Si yo hubiera estado hablando, . . .

imperfect-progressive: Si yo estuviera (estuviese) hablando, . . .

Hope this helps.
Norma

 

[Sholly24]

.

possibility:
Si la pr?xima vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero, (podr?a sacar la pistola.)

Norma,
Your comment is very interesting because I have been told that 'Si' is never used with the subjunctive in the present tense. 'Si la primera vez que te veo no tienes mi dinero.....' . Perhaps this a a regional preference or I may have been wrongly informed.

Any comments?

Gracias

Sholly

 

[Marianopolita]

Steve-

The indicative or the subjunctive mood follows "si". Your question is valid and it depends on what the speaker is trying to express which determines the usage of one mood over the other. IMO the usage is very natural if you truly can express yourself correctly in Spanish you won't err.


Compare:

1/
Si vienes, te ayudar? (If you come, I will help you).

-the indicative after "si" indicates something real not hypothetical

2a / Si vinieras, te ayudar?a

- if you were to come, I would help you. (It's hypothetical and a condition)

2b/ A classic example that always makes it clear for people is:

Si tuviera dinero comprar?a un carro.

- if I had money (but I don't), I would buy a car. (It's hypothetical and a condition)

Note the imperfect subjunctive usage is required (el imperfecto del subjunctivo) in order to express the hypothetical clauses in 2a and 2b.

- there is a clear difference in meaning in the examples of the usage of one mood vs the other.


Now, I will mention this to you because there is a remote possibility that you may hear or see the usage in writing of the present subjunctive after "si". It's incorrect. For example- no s? si sea posible... However, just to stay focused on your question I won't get into the reasons why but if you hear it, I recommend that you don't pattern the usage.

I always tell people who inquire about the usage of the subjunctive that it is easy in Spanish if one truly understands the logic of the mood and the language. It's not used without a reason and there's always a marker (not "que") in the phrase that governs the usage. Either a marker of time, a condition, a short phrase etc. In your question the "si" is the marker + what you are trying to convey which determines the usage.


Examples-

- the markers for the subjunctive are underlined.

Cuando regresemos.... when we return (the subjunctive is required because it's future to time. If it were the past it would be the indicative).

Por muy dif?cil que sea...

Por m?s que trate de explicarte...

Antes de que salgas...

Si hubiera sabido...(contrary to fact)


PD. In Norma's second example- it's la pr?xima vez (time marker) that governs the usage of "vea" without it the present subjunctive would not be required.

I hope this helps because I plan to post only once in this thread. Feel free to PM me with any more questions.


-LDG.

 

[tommy3102]

wow that hurt to read but thank you for taking the time to write it. I was having flashbacks to my highschool spanish where I persisted in only using the phrase "Yo tengo un bigote" for every question asked of me for a month as part of a bet. Got in a big bit of trouble for that but such good fun!

Yo soy gringo mas grande que todos, y soy muy estupido porque - yo tengo un bigote!

 

[rolfdog]

Thanks all. That helps. Good to know the present subjunctive is not used unless there is a marker. I think that was my confusion.

BTW, Honduras was great, though impoverished. El voseo is used but not nearly as much as in the rio de la plata area.

 

[Norma Rosa]

Norma,
Your comment is very interesting because I have been told that 'Si' is never used with the subjunctive in the present tense. 'Si la primera vez que te veo no tienes mi dinero.....' . Perhaps this a a regional preference or I may have been wrongly informed.

Any comments?

Gracias

Sholly

I wrote: "Si la pr?xima vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero . . . (future) It requires the subjunctive (vea), not the present indicative (veo).

Now, let's imagine that you are for the first time in front of a person that owes you money. He/she promissed to meet you in person in order to pay you, but does not bring the money. You say:

"Es la primera vez que te veo y no tienes mi dinero. (This is factual, real. Requieres the indicative.)

If you were on the phone with this person prior to him/her coming to see you, you might say:

1. "Si te veo y no tienes mi dinero" (present indicative)

Subjunctive:
1. "Si la primera vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero. . . (or no traes mi dinero)
2. "Si cuando te vea . . ."
3. "Si cuando vengas . . ."
4. "Si cuando llegues a mi oficina no tienes. . .


Please refer to Lesley's post for markers for the subjunctive.

In my experience, most people use the subjunctive correctly.
Norma

 

[Sholly24]

I wrote: "Si la pr?xima vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero . . . (future) It requires the subjunctive (vea), not the present indicative (veo).............

Subjunctive:
1. "Si la primera vez que te vea no tienes mi dinero. . . (or no traes mi dinero)
2. "Si cuando te vea . . ."
3. "Si cuando vengas . . ."
4. "Si cuando llegues a mi oficina no tienes. . .

Yes, you are right and the mistake is mine. I did not take note of the word ' La primera vez que' which is the kicker for the subjunctive. What I have been told is that one cannot say 'Si vengas' or 'Si llegues' etc unless there is a kicker for the subjunctive that follows the word ' Si' like 'Cuando' as you have shown in your examples.

Thanks

Sholly