Survey On "Red Light District" For Sosua

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Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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I like the idea of giving the decision to the people that count. On the other hand, the poll would only ever be fixed, and at best if it wasn't, to form red light zone you need a people who understand compromise. Even more, sosua is small, to put all class of girl in one small area, uglies with beauties, young with old, haitian with doms, cheap with expensive etcetc would create absolute mayhem and without doubt, violence, drug death and underbelly warzones. The absolute end of sosua.

I'd like to have them poll the people who live in Sosua to see what they want in their community. Undoubtedly some residents would be in favor of what Sosua has become in recent years, but I believe the majority would express support for the ongoing efforts to make Sosua a balanced tourist town, not just one that caters to the bar and sex crowd. Certainly the talk on the street between locals is a lot more positive than negative.

The mayor was elected to a 6i-year term because a majority of the people wanted change.

Certainly occasional visitors have a right to an opinion, but more important is what the people who live here want.

What some see as the "absolute end of Sosua" is what many others see as an improved Sosua.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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What difference does it make ??
I *assume* that means no, since it is rare a DR1er is a citizen.

Citizens have the right to address their grievences directly to gubmint. Residents are spectators. Tourists on overstayed visas are illegal spectators.

Residents and tourists have little, if any, say in how gubmint operates. That can, however, rant on a message board. That's sorta like peeing in a pair of dark wool pants: you feel all warm and fuzzy, but nobody notices...
 

kdolo

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Gee sorry for you that your freedoms are being eroded by a duly elected government! Too bad so sad. that gives you the right to an opinion here and you can exercise it by taking your business elsewhere.

there is more then just your opinion here -others have the right to one as well.I respect your stand but do not agree with it. But don't throw around accusations, it only shows where you are coming from.

As I have said before in other posts, The primary opponents of prostitution are typically women not in their reproductive prime who are threatened by the idea that older men want to have sex with young women who are willing to sell it.
You identify yourself as female - I bet good money that you are not in your prime reproductive years 17 - 25...probably a good bit older.

1. Prostitution can not be controlled. In New York for example it is illegal. Yet it thrives online, Craiglist, ethnic enclaves - Chinatown, blogs, alternative magazines, and underground - where often organized crime coalesces to control it. The girls are then controlled by cartels, standards for safety and health are hard to come by because everything is driven underground. These cartels are typicall protected by certain politicians and cops on the payroll - Corruption.

2. What you see as other countries controlling prostitution is the only the appearance of control... certain Nordic countries.
Most of the prostitution happens informally in bars, hotel lounges, clubs, online, etc. In places where it is really actually controlled, are countries that are full blown (usually religious) police states: Saudi Arabia, Iran. No only way to control sex after all is to have a full blown police state. So the question is not whether it can be controlled or not, but at what cost ...for what ends ??.

3. I didn't deny that prostitution is a dangerous business. I argue that girls themselves are probably better suited at protecting themselves than any bureaucrat or corrupt Dominican cop. The girls have developed their own security apparatus and with experience develop a feel for who can be dangerous or not.
I have heard if guys being ripped off, but that number is tiny compared to the number of guys who have had positive
experiences.

4. "Wages need to be set": wait...you want a government bureaucrat or politicians who is paid no doubt by taxing productive businesses and people to determine a wage for a prostitute ??? So you want to tax a prostitutes wages to pay a bureaucrat in order to tell her what her wages should be ....as if she doesn't have a good idea of what she wants for allowing some guy access to her body ?? Sounds tyrannical to me. (Sounds both communist and tyrannical - communists are always tyrants)

5. AIDS: I am sure there are infected girls and johns too. As I said, the best people to deal with those risks are the participants themselves. Condoms ??? AIDS exists everywhere on the planet. Its lowest incidence I think is in Cuba ......in part because Cuba is a police state. Other than imposing a police state, the only way to deal with that is Condoms, awareness, and individual responsibility.

6. You are right, you do not have the right to be molested. But who or what molests you ? the girls, the johns, the police, OR the idea that guys are purchasing sex from young hot girls. In any event, the solution you propose is overkill ...no ??

I am not calling you names. I am calling you by the name that the actions you support amount to:
-Government control of sumptuary activity (which all of human history shows cannot be )
-Wage control determined by parties other than the contracting parties
-Supporting arbitrary government power ....even over the girls themselves ...as if you know better the risks and rewards of their activity
-Using your own personal disgust with prostitution as an excuse and tax and regulate everyone else and transfer the funds and authority to politicians in order to use the power of the state to regulate it ...mainly because you find it distasteful.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . ...its probably a duck. You sound like a communist tyrant. I don't know for a fact if you are, but that what it sounds like.
 

kdolo

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I *assume* that means no, since it is rare a DR1er is a citizen.

Citizens have the right to address their grievences directly to gubmint. Residents are spectators. Tourists on overstayed visas are illegal spectators.

Residents and tourists have little, if any, say in how gubmint operates. That can, however, rant on a message board. That's sorta like peeing in a pair of dark wool pants: you feel all warm and fuzzy, but nobody notices...

Or non-citizens who are married to citizens, have family who are citizens, own property and business interests, can express opinions on political decisions that may affect the future of that individual, his family, and his property.
 
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zoomzx11

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Jan 21, 2006
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I like the status quo. This looks like the camels nose under the tent. From what I have seen the majority of tourists are not offended by the girls in the street. Most of them laugh when they are "accosted" or receive remarks. Sosua is trying to fix what is not broken and unfixxable. Raise your hand if you have been deeply offended by "hola papi" or "massage?". Of course residents cannot vote so much ado about things over which we have no control.
 

cobraboy

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Or non-citizens who are married to citizens, have family who are citizens, own property and business interests, can express opinions on political decisions that may affect the future of that individual, his family, and his property.
Actually, no, by LAW no one but CITIZENS can directly participate and/or donate to political issues in the DR.

And i can assure you the DR gubmint and most citizens have absolutely NO interest in what non-citizens have to say about how their country is run, especially from a sex tourist.

Unless, of course, you are with the IMF.
 

DMV123

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Mar 31, 2010
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YOu know soooo very little about me. I am a capitalist at heart, an entrepreneur. I do believe that not everyone has the ability or intelligence or education to protect themselves and thus some controls are necessary. Personal responsibility for AIDS are you friggin kidding me??? That is working really well.

I believe that prostitution should be completely legalized and quite frankly tax the crap out of it - tax the crap out of drugs - cigarettes -cigars - big expensive cars - big expensive houses and other luxury items. If you can afford to play then you should pay.

the rest of your comments, well I won't dignify with further discussion.

Zoom, I have been accosted on the street by girls. touching me - trying to get their hands on money, trying to encourage me to go with them. Damn it I am a woman and on occasions was with another woman or a group of people. I have had to get loud to get them to leave me the hell alone. That is NOT enjoyable.. As such I will NOT go to Sosua at night. no thanks, they have lost any business I might have brought them.

So who else feels the same way? Who else will not go to a restaurant or bar on PC in Sosua at night???? I am sure it is not just me. How many other residents of that area steer clear, go to Cabarete at night, go to POP or other places at night?
 

SosuaSam

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Jan 4, 2010
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Hey based on reading these posts, then USA and Canada must be the worst places to live in the world since they don't have legalized prostution and hooker bars on their main streets. Us North Americans can live without that at home so we can probably live without it in the DR, and Dominicans have a right to present the image of the country that they want. So if they feel prostitution and being known as a sex destination isn't something they're proud of, then that's fine with me too.
 

Acira

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Sep 20, 2009
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www.blazingfuries.com
I have been in Sosua at late evenings. Its not my favorite town to eat in at night but that has more to do with the noise. I prefer to have dinners in restaurants with friends or with my partner where I can talk, sit relaxed and not been surrounded by noise, so able to have a conversation with my company. So the beach of Cabarete suits me better for that matter or Chez Arsenio or the Thai in La Mulata or Embocca.

That was the same when we lived in Jarabacoa. A few hundred meters to drive and we could get a good pizza but you would sit on a terrass on a busy street, not my idea of a nice evening dinner. So, although quite more expensive, we would rather drive up to Jamaca de Dios, to have a nice dinner there.

In the daytime to grab a quick lunch, I don't care. We often go to Cubano after doing some things in Sosua and I do enjoy to watch people walk by whilst eating their lovely sandwiches and when driving away, I do love the guy's at every corner you turn into, calling out to you...change...change??? LOL
 

bob saunders

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Hey based on reading these posts, then USA and Canada must be the worst places to live in the world since they don't have legalized prostution and hooker bars on their main streets. Us North Americans can live without that at home so we can probably live without it in the DR, and Dominicans have a right to present the image of the country that they want. So if they feel prostitution and being known as a sex destination isn't something they're proud of, then that's fine with me too.

Prostitution is not illegal in Canada.
 

Anastacio

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Feb 22, 2010
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I dunno, people elected need to be seen to be doing something, be it functional or just to be seen to be doing something other than sitting enjoying the new salary, doesn't seem that anything functional is happening. What has really changed for the better since this new push began?
People will gossip and rant and give opinion on anything in small town mentality, someone paints a house in Sosua and everyone has an opinion, so much noise doesn't always mean much anything.
 

Ken

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Jan 1, 2002
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I *assume* that means no, since it is rare a DR1er is a citizen.

Citizens have the right to address their grievences directly to gubmint. Residents are spectators. Tourists on overstayed visas are illegal spectators.

Residents and tourists have little, if any, say in how gubmint operates. That can, however, rant on a message board. That's sorta like peeing in a pair of dark wool pants: you feel all warm and fuzzy, but nobody notices...

Wonderful, this should be a sticky.
 

Lobo Tropical

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Aug 21, 2010
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Trudeau

I come from a country whose freedoms are quickly being eroded due to people like you who think that every little issue that disturbs you should be solved by Big Government snooping itself into peoples private lives: its called the USA.

To quote the former Prime Minister of the little country of Canada who uses a Maple Leaf not an Eagle or Lion for it's flagg.

by Christine Overall ?2004
originally published in the
Kingston Whig-Standard
June 28, 2004

Pierre Elliott Trudeau opined that "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."
To this dictum I would simply add, provided those in the bedrooms are consenting adults.
In last week's column I argued that the state should have no role in limiting consenting human sexual and romantic relationships.
........................................
by Lobo:
I hazard a guess that part of the attraction was that men could meet a girl in a bar or restaurant or on the beach and connect. A hardcore red light district with professional prostitutes is a turn off for many.
Germany has legal prostitution. Several girls rent an apartment and place an ad in the local paper,no pimp very low key no drama.
Of course women can still be met everywhere in the DR, Language skills help.

In the DR the girls often are single mothers struggling to pay $RD 2400-4000 rent, milk, rice, beans and diapers. Hope for education and employment nil. Many men have a steady novia and pay all expenses, thus are a real help. If local ex-pats can provide education, computer literacy and employment that would be hope for improvement.
Other than that, the moralizing helps no one because it does not address the underlying economic and social issues as can be seen in the DR or Thailand to name two.
Add to this that many women like the live style and sex. Big money, living in condos and invitations to AI's
Hotels, presents, fashion, jewellery and travel.
For some this is better than working as a cashier or in a factory 5-6 days a week. Even in the US working at Mac Donald's or Wallmart may not sound too exiting.
 

Lobo Tropical

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Aug 21, 2010
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Kiss

Gee sorry for you that your freedoms are being eroded by a duly elected government! Too bad so sad. that gives you the right to an opinion here and you can exercise it by taking your business elsewhere.

there is more then just your opinion here -others have the right to one as well.I respect your stand but do not agree with it. But don't throw around accusations, it only shows where you are coming from.

Hi DMV,
AS you and kdolo are not getting along I have some time and would like to comply!!!!!!!!!
Besos de Lobo

DMV123
I AM FEMALE.
AND YOU CAN KISS MY LITTLE WHITE.............. :eek::eek::eek:
 

Lobo Tropical

Silver
Aug 21, 2010
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Voter turnout

I *assume* that means no, since it is rare a DR1er is a citizen.

Citizens have the right to address their grievences directly to gubmint. Residents are spectators. Tourists on overstayed visas are illegal spectators.

Residents and tourists have little, if any, say in how gubmint operates. That can, however, rant on a message board. That's sorta like peeing in a pair of dark wool pants: you feel all warm and fuzzy, but nobody notices...

Cobraboy,
You are right about a participatory democracy.
Here are some interesting voter turnout results:
USA 1824 - 26.9%
2008 - 57.37%
Canada 1876 - 73.1%
2008 - 58.8%
2011 - 61.4%
Germany 2009 - 70.8%
Now here is where I disagree.
Tourism and foreign investment does have a huge impact and can influence local government, even though no direct votes can be cast. For example tourism and real estate investment helped develop Spain starting in the 60's and had/has a huge impact on the country and government.
At the moment unemployment in Spain is at 21% in the age group 19-25 ? 45%.
Young Spanish people are looking for employment opportunities in Germany.
Some of these examples can be related to the DR in my opinion.
 

BermudaRum

Bronze
Oct 9, 2007
1,225
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Pedro Clisante is relatively very short in distance when you compare the number of persons and businesses that cater primary to the sex trade. Sosua probably has somewhere in the region of 2 main discos to speak about, and only one of these discos really offers what their customers are looking for in entertainment. There are four to five mid size PC bars that are OK for visitors and some locals, but are primarily used by chicas as a waiting area before heading into this one disco. So, when you look at all the other businesses that mainly cater to residents and some visitors, the real issue here for PC is that the majority of the sex trade is focus on this one disco. So if the mayor wants to create a red light district away from PC, move those involved and relocate it where most of the workers live, Los Charamicos. It has one road entrance, one exit, and certainly has enough bancos, food operators, and derelict buildings that you can convert, as well as many locals that need to earn a living. That way the residents in the area would be able to work with their mayor, most of whom voted for her and her deputy. But more importantly, they could create a red light district 100% controlled by mostly Dominicans. After all it’s their country, why shouldn’t they be able to get a larger piece of the pie? Transportation to this area for those visitors would not be an issue given the fact that there are 100’s of willing motos available. You could pave a moto path along the back side of Sosua’s beach stalls to eliminate most of the moto traffic 24hrs a day on the main highway. You would still have in Sosua the non AI hotels, PC bars and restaurants for the single traveler’s, locals, and hopefully others. This could eliminate the chica issue and the locals associated with them that some people think is needed in Sosua. And possibly this would open the door wider for the mayor to redevelop the centre of Sosua in order to cater to family visitor that she says she wants. Yes I know with this relocation there would be many issues in establishing a R.L. area, and the possible downturn for businesses on PC. However, where else would the mayor and others benefit in changing it to? Maybe down the street on PC between the Scotia Bank area and Hotel La Esplanada which would be great for some, but it wouldn’t change allot about Sousa.
 
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FritoBandito

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Dec 19, 2009
681
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In the DR the girls often are single mothers struggling to pay $RD 2400-4000 rent, milk, rice, beans and diapers. Hope for education and employment nil. Many men have a steady novia and pay all expenses, thus are a real help. If local ex-pats can provide education, computer literacy and employment that would be hope for improvement.
Other than that, the moralizing helps no one because it does not address the underlying economic and social issues as can be seen in the DR or Thailand to name two.
Add to this that many women like the live style and sex. Big money, living in condos and invitations to AI's
Hotels, presents, fashion, jewellery and travel.
For some this is better than working as a cashier or in a factory 5-6 days a week. Even in the US working at Mac Donald's or Wallmart may not sound too exiting.

It's definitely not like the US where a single mother can get rent assistance, food stamps, money, and health insurance provided for by the government. One can't blame them for prostituting to better their conditions. A girl working as a part-time hooker only has to work 4 times/month @ 2,500 pesos each time to make $10,000 pesos. I wonder how many jobs will pay $10,000 pesos/month to someone who has no special skills or a good job trade?
 
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