The word "Puta"

[Criss Colon]

Moderators Point Of View! regarding "QUOTES"!

Many people feel the need to drag an entire post, as a "Quote", to their new postings,before responding to same.It is not necessary! Just state your piece! If you must, say;"In response to "Fulanos" post let me say this!Let the people do their homework.You want to be part of the DR1 "Community" read the entire thread before sharing your "2-cents".CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[MrMike]

Re: This is DR1! We live ,or love the "Dominican Experience"!!

I think the primary requisite for using slang and being able to maintain any dignity is knowing that you?re using slang, using it where it helps you to make a point or to relate to someone less educated.

If it?s all you know then it?s not slang, it?s just ignorance, or bad English/Spanish.

Americans do not have a monopoly on slang English. And most of us that use slang know it?s not ?proper? and in the very odd circumstance where we find ourselves giving a rat?s ass about what?s ?proper? we can form complete sentences that are free of slang.

I concede that boredom is most likely the biggest motivation for anyone logging on and participating here, but sitting up in the wee hours of the night whining because foreigners use a more international term for prostitutes than you and your barrio buddies do is kind of pathetic.

 

[KenoshaChris]

Does all this mean I'm just a Sanky Panky???

 

[Criss Colon]

No! Kenosha Chris,it does NOT!

"Sanky Pankis" get "PAID"(Money,"tenis",gold chains,trips to England with Fat White Girls,etc.) you don't!!!!CCCCCCCCCCCC

Mr. "MIKE",may I submit that the "time" of someones post has little to do with its content or value.People post on DR1 from all over the Globe, it may be 12 noon where they live,and the post shows 4 am. on DR1. For most of us here on DR1,we have no "Life" other than these posts.Please don't make light of what we do. The small "stipend" I receive as Moderator barely pays for my "Prozac"!Be kind to us! CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[MrMike]

reply to mondongo

First of all I think you made a nice argument and you almost had me convinced, until I thought about it for a second and it occurs to me that the official language of the DR is indeed "Spanish" and not the derived local dialect you allude to. Therefore any local deviations from academic standards of Spanish are indeed slang.

You claim there wasn?t any such thing as Spanish in the days of Columbus, and you may be right, I haven?t researched it properly. Columbus wasn?t Spanish anyway; he just got financed by them. I?m sure whenever he spoke any tongue other than his own mother?s he had a thick accent, but I doubt whether the current state of the spoken language in Dominican Barrios can be attributed to him, any more than ghetto English and Ebonics can be attributed to the British. (The comparison is based on the fact that the early American settlers were from England, etc.)

In any case any aboriginals that Columbus came into contact with were wiped out by diseases and by Columbus himself and his henchmen, and the later population had plenty of contact with later Spaniards who definitely spoke Spanish by then, and made Spanish their official language.

 

[Criss Colon]

"Slang" is a very popular means of communication!

The ever changing "language" of US inter-city Blacks permiates the entire spectrum of "American" speech! Who has not said,"Whats up?"or just plain "Sup?","Whats happin'n"?Same is true here in the DR! National advertising campaigns feature "Ma Pariba!" and other "slang"/geographically specific language! I like it!I use it! You can't stop it! Enjoy it! cccccccCCCCCCCCCCCcccccccccccccc

 

[MrMike]

I replied, didn't I?

As far as I'm concerned that's as kind as I can be. I participated in this discussion and added my own soaring intellect to the collective IQ here, so be thankful. This is all the life you got? Well your life just got a little bit better.

C'mon, I don't know the in-house politics here well enough to understand what kind of special relationship you might have with suarez so you'll have to forgive me for any insensitivities. The guy admitted in his original post that he was only crabbing about is pet peeves because he couldn't sleep, and it?s hard not to take a swipe at something like that. He should sleep better knowing that people are reading his posts and paying attention to the details.

When I am forced to picture a middle aged man in with insomnia in front of a faintly glowing monitor in the middle of the night, a lot of disturbing images come to mind, most including clumsy attempts at autoeroticism, wondering why the "putas" aren't answering the phone, remembering that they are actually "cueritos" here and trying again, and then realizing that no matter what you call them they won't answer their phones when they are working (well if they're sober enough to remember not to, anyway.) and then going back to a fruitless search for "free pr0n" that doesn't ask for an already maxed out credit card #.

Generally I am only unkind when I think there might be some laughs all around to be had at my unkindness. It?s never because of personal dislike. If I really don?t like someone or something, I usually just ignore them.

 

[Criss Colon]

If you say so!

Did I miss something along the way here?(Just a rhetorical question,please don't answer!)
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Everyone have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jane J.]

MrMike, I think that many on these boards could benefit from the education that Suarezn is trying to give them. A cuero is a prostitute in Domincanspeak, so why not accept it?

To say that it's not "proper" does not change the fact that the usage exists. It may also help explain the laughs you get when you tell people that your cologne of choice is Cuero Negro by Avon. (Not you you, you know?)

Some of us enjoy honing our Dominican dialecto, in all its glory, and others (those who go around calling people "idiotos" and think their insults effective) need all the help they can get.

 

[Criss Colon]

"JANE" said, what I meant!

Thank you Jane!.You do have control of the language!
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[Ken]

Seems very hard these days to know what is and is not slang, particularly since a slang word today may lose that designation tomorrow. With increasing frequency I read that new editions of dictionaries are being published containing many new words, some of which were previously considered slang, that have gained such wide usage that they are now fit for use by educated people in polite company.

 

[MrMike]

I dunno Jane, I think it's possible that Suarez' attempts to educate us all would be more effective if he wasn't wrong. I am not in the same boat as most of the foreigners who post here, I've been speaking spanish on a more or less fluent level in many different countries for over 15 years now, and have attended several years of University in Spanish only Universities.

The only points I am trying to make are that:

1) Calling a whore a slut is not incorrect in any language, it's generally a good guess since whores are usually sluts who've gone professional.

2) Puta can be used to refer to prostitutes. I have a beautiful wife who speaks only Spanish and who assures me that a puta is a prostitute. It seems the term we use in English (bitch) to refer to a generally disagreeable PMSing woman who won't shut the hell up doesn't exist in this culture (I mean a word for it, not the syndrome, which I can assure you is alive and well) "perra" (bitch, literally, female dog like in english) is also generally assumed to mean prostitute. In fact almost any insult you can apply to a woman in spanish means "prostitute" in some way. (OK, I made that last part up)

3) "Cuero" is slang (when used to refer to something that is not leather or "hide".) There is a good chance I am wrong about this, but I am waiting for somebody to prove it to me. Generally though, as detailed in point #1, I don't object as much to Suarez' insistence that prostitutes are "cueros" as I object to his claim that they are not "putas" even if he's right and puta means slut and cuero means "whore", (which I doubt) this doesn't make it wrong to call a whore a slut.

4) People should learn to speak properly in any language before they start learning slang. There is no shame in using slang by choice, but when it's all you know it shows you up for an ignorant fool. If you are just learning spanish, you should stay as far away from the local dialect as possible, refuse to use it and insist that people you deal with use proper terms for things, and pronounce at least 50% of the consonats in any given sentence. (yes this includes "S" and "R"). If you do learn local slang, don't let anyone know about it. This is lots of fun, you can often catch locals conspiring against you in front of your face because they never imagine you have penetrated their "secret code" slang.

 

[jose?to]

Suarezn is correct.

-Jose?to
Miembro de la Real Academia de Dialecto Dominicano

 

[Criss Colon]

Maybe "Mr Mike" is right after all!!!!

Of his grand total of 33 posts on DR1,15 are in the, now closed, "Mars/Venus" forum thread under,"Prostitution in the DR!"I give up! "Mike",you are like one of those birthday cake candles,that no matter how many times you blow it out,it just lights up again and again! Dominicans are a colorful people with a colorful language.Dominican Spanish,is just like American English,A living "offspring"of a dead "Strict Parent"! "The King Is Dead!""Long Live His Kids!"CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC"Its All Good!"

 

[MrMike]

Chris Colon and Joseito

I have posted in other threads, Criss, you need to try that search again. I don't undestand how that's relevant though.

I deduce from your tone that you disagree with one or more of the points I made. Do you care to to tell me which one(s)? If you want me to shut up or go away just say so, I can deal with that.

Yes Dominicans are colorful and their language is as well. I have been living here for 3 years now and have no plans to move so I think my approval of the country and it's people is self evident. Like anyone I see many opportunities for improvement though and I think that Dominicans taking a more active interest in their own language would work wonders for the country and better prepare young Dominicans and Dominican companies to compete in the international market. In the interest of progress however, it would be wise to bear in mind that the purpose of language is to communicate, therefore forms of communication which lack clarity are less effective and should be avoided by those who wish to achieve maximum effectiveness.

I am not retired, or on vacation, and so have more to do here than sit on the beach drinking presidente and haggling over the price of mondongo. My efforts to get things done have often been frustrated by people who choose to substitute "tiguerage" for competence, and this is most often expressed through their use (and misuse) of the language.

Joseito, I asked for proof of the actual meaning of the words "puta" and "cuero". No one in my office has ever heard of your Academy. Did you make that up? Is there any documentation on this? I actually want to know.

 

[mkohn]

I always thought "puta" like the Italian "buttana" (Columbus' native language) mean 'prostitute' in English.
IMO "cuero" would be just another piece of a$$.
mk
crudely speaking

 

[Jane J.]

From the Real Academ?a Espa?ola:

• cuero. (Del lat. corĭum).
  1. m. Pellejo que cubre la carne de los animales.
  2. m. Este mismo pellejo despu?s de curtido y preparado para los diferentes usos a que se aplica en la industria.
  3. m. odre (ǁ para contener l?quidos).
  4. m. coloq. Col., C. Rica y P. Rico. Mujer avejentada y fea.
  5. m. Cuba. Instrumento musical de percusi?n.
  6. m. vulg. Ecuad. y Ven. querida.
  7. m. Ecuad. y R. Dom. prostituta.
  8. m. Guat. desverg?enza (ǁ falta de verg?enza).
  9. m. Hond. Miedo, temor.
  10. m. coloq. Hond. y M?x. Mujer guapa y atractiva.
  11. m. Nic. Virginidad de la mujer.
  12. m. Nic. Cosa nueva.
  13. m. pl. ant. Colgaduras de guadameciles.
  
• puta. (De or. inc.).
  1. f. prostituta.

So we may deduce that "cuero" is not as slang as you thought, MrMike. Surprisingly, however, RAE also defines "puta" as prostitute, which I don't agree with, semantically speaking.

But I'm now thinking, thanks to your rant on bitches and PMS, that your argument has less to do with linguistic nuance and rather more to do with misogynistic stereotypes.

 

[Criss Colon]

The fact that "Dominicanos" murder the "King's Spanish"

is of little relevance here!It is about # 207 on the list of priorities for the betterment of the Dominican People! I am currently President of the "World Council for the Betterment of Hispanic Peoples and Culture"We think that education and healthcare rank #1,and#2 on our "ToDo List"!
This issue has therefore been labeled,"A Tempest In A Teapot" and of nothing more than a forum for pompous tightassed linguists!
Anyone care to "claim" the TITLE? CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCc "Joseito" is world renowned for his work with the Academy!

 

[jose?to]

Mr Mike,

I made that up. However, when it comes to local dialect and slangs, locals know best, no matter how cultured a foreigner is.
In the D.R., cuero means prostitute. And a 'cuero' does not necessarily have to be a flirt. There are some high-class 'cueros' that would never get caught flirting.

-Jose?to

 

[MrMike]

Jane

Here's a two part answer for you,

1) Thanks for the research; you confirmed for me that "puta" means prostitute. Also if you check back over your own post you will see that "leather" and "hide" are the only meanings of the word "cuero" that are general and not limited to a few small countries. So while you're right about it not being as slang as I had previously believed, I think you can see my point.

2) If you want to label me a misogynist that's your own mistake, and I'll let you make it with minimal protest. My posts are generally heavy with sarcasm and if you read my rant again I think you will notice that it is misogynistic stereotypes embedded in language that I was referring to, but if you just want to get personal about it and call me a misogynist go ahead, I don't really care. I think it's interesting that you would care to disagree with a dictionary, though; I can?t wait to see who wins that debate.