- Thread starter Adrian Bye
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Time to change haiti's culture
I didn't exactly vet the websites for being left or right. They just happened to pop up when I googled "Reagan" and "Haiti". I would have preferred something written by The Economist, but it was there for the picking. Come to think of it, I need to see what their take is on the situation...
Since this thread is about changing Haiti's culture, I think the following fits well here.
Video - Haitian Consul General blames voodoo and "cursed" Africans for earthquake
Given Haiti's history of its upper class rejecting voodoo and Krey?l for being too African and 'backward', it was in the 1980s that Haiti recognized Krey?l as an official language and ended its disapproval of voodoo; one does need to wonder if this mentality is still prevalent among Haiti's upper class. Consul Generals, for the most part, hail from the upper levels of the society they represent, and in many cases, express certain beliefs that are entrenched within the social class they come from.
Video - Haitian Consul General blames voodoo and "cursed" Africans for earthquake
Given Haiti's history of its upper class rejecting voodoo and Krey?l for being too African and 'backward', it was in the 1980s that Haiti recognized Krey?l as an official language and ended its disapproval of voodoo; one does need to wonder if this mentality is still prevalent among Haiti's upper class. Consul Generals, for the most part, hail from the upper levels of the society they represent, and in many cases, express certain beliefs that are entrenched within the social class they come from.
Ok, I truly think we need to stop accusing Voodoo for Haiti's economic down-spiral. Voodoo is just another pagan religion. "We" need to take an course in theology?
Yeah I just caught the end of it. It looks like they will start to get control of things, but 2-3 million people to feed is a tall order. I'm thinking they are looking at feeding a city about the size of Chicago.
You can download 60 minutes audio only free on iTunes.
It seems to me they need to drop battery or crank radios so people can find out what is going on and where to go. There are hundreds of refugee spots that they need to consolidate if they are going to distribute the food. A big soccer field was one of the distribution points that worked.
You can download 60 minutes audio only free on iTunes.
It seems to me they need to drop battery or crank radios so people can find out what is going on and where to go. There are hundreds of refugee spots that they need to consolidate if they are going to distribute the food. A big soccer field was one of the distribution points that worked.
Bill Clinton as defacto ruler of Haiti, Wyclef as prime minister, Preval as the Haitian face of things. This earthquake is an opportunity a true chance to get some sh*te done. Build it back from the ground up. Massive infusion of condoms and birth control and UN stewardship for the next 20 years under the Clinton dynasty (Chelsea could be the next one to run the show after Mom and Dad retire). That is what Haiti needs. Tough love everybody knows but doesn't want to admit it. Where's Pichardo to provide analysis?
The problem with forcibly changing things in Haiti is that sooner or later the people will rebel against it and force change backwards.
Any change has to be done with the people on side.
Any change has to be done with the people on side.
I agree with O&C. I don't believe that the average Haitian hates Dominicans. To be honest, I've never me a Haitian that told me anything like that.
This reminds me of something that happened when I was in PAP a few years ago. I was talking with a Haitian friend that was a journalist. She mentioned that she had visited the Dominican Republic to attend a conference. I asked her if she liked visiting the DR. She started to slowly shake har head, and while smiling said:"No, but I guess it is because I'm jealous." She went on to explain that when Haitians visit the Dominican Republic and see the beautiful forested landscapes and the (relatively) modern citites, it makes them want to cry, because they wish their country was like that. She has never had anything negative to say about Dominicans at all.
I wonder how many of those people posting on the Preval site are Haitian-Americans(with massive chips on their shoulders) as opposed to native Haitians...
OK, according to Danny Glover, the earthquake is not due to culture or voodoo or Africans or even tectonic plates. This is all part of global warming.
Go on, laugh a little.
Video - Danny Glover Blames Earthquake on Global Warming
Go on, laugh a little.
Video - Danny Glover Blames Earthquake on Global Warming
One of the first prioties in rehabilitating Haiti is to address the lack of cooking fuel for the country. Propane is still considered a luxery fuel; the majority of the country is using charcoal for cooking and relatively precious kerosene for lamps at night, if they have some spare money.
It is important to remember that Haiti used to be a major exporter of exotic woods and has been using charcoal and wood as their primary cooking fuel since its beginning. Haiti's total deforestation has led to the loss of topsoil, numerous food crops and forage for livestock. In some regions, tree roots are mined for charcoal production. Ironically, the ban of commercial charcoal production in the Dominican Republic has led to Haiti exporting charcoal to their neighbor, which only exascerbated the problem. Thousands die from landslides during hurricanes and whole communities have simply vanished
Some may think that giving Haiti kerosene or propane stoves and enough fuel would curb the deforestation, but it would be far more practical to import fuel made from agricultural waste imported from the US and other countries to give Haitian biofuel crops a chance to be established. Converting Haiti to petrolium based cooking fuels is litterally throwing gas on the fire since it unforseeable that they will be affordable to majority of the population within the next 20 years.
Both the DR and Haiti could benefit from the introduction of bagasse pellet production. Bagasse is remnant of the sugar cane after the juice has been pressed out. Much of it is used in the processing of the cane juice into sugar and the rest is typically used as fodder or in large scale power production. Improvements in mill efficiency could increase the supply of bagasse that could be converted into cooking fuel.
What other crops could be grown as biofuels? The Pencil Tree(Euphorbia tirucalli) could be one option as it already grows wild on the island. As a crop it could produce some 10 to 50 barrels of biodiesel per acre, it can be intercropped with food and other crops, and can also be used as a hedgerow. It is not suitable for coverting into charcoal and goats can browse the plant without killing it. It also has a big advantage in that it grows virtually anywhere.
Much of Haiti's so called development has been modeled after Pacific rim countries, where the production textiles for export to the US have benefitted few and there is no interest in improving the workers' wages-- that would make them less competative. Sadly, there is no shortage of workers who will work 10-12 hour shifts for a few dollars a day. Haiti could do far better by making biofuel and other agricultural production its economic center. It would shift Haiti back to its agrarian roots and benefit to the most Haitian people for their immediate needs of fuel and food security. We have tried for 50 years to fix Haiti from the top down. It is time to give bottom up management a try.
It is important to remember that Haiti used to be a major exporter of exotic woods and has been using charcoal and wood as their primary cooking fuel since its beginning. Haiti's total deforestation has led to the loss of topsoil, numerous food crops and forage for livestock. In some regions, tree roots are mined for charcoal production. Ironically, the ban of commercial charcoal production in the Dominican Republic has led to Haiti exporting charcoal to their neighbor, which only exascerbated the problem. Thousands die from landslides during hurricanes and whole communities have simply vanished
Some may think that giving Haiti kerosene or propane stoves and enough fuel would curb the deforestation, but it would be far more practical to import fuel made from agricultural waste imported from the US and other countries to give Haitian biofuel crops a chance to be established. Converting Haiti to petrolium based cooking fuels is litterally throwing gas on the fire since it unforseeable that they will be affordable to majority of the population within the next 20 years.
Both the DR and Haiti could benefit from the introduction of bagasse pellet production. Bagasse is remnant of the sugar cane after the juice has been pressed out. Much of it is used in the processing of the cane juice into sugar and the rest is typically used as fodder or in large scale power production. Improvements in mill efficiency could increase the supply of bagasse that could be converted into cooking fuel.
What other crops could be grown as biofuels? The Pencil Tree(Euphorbia tirucalli) could be one option as it already grows wild on the island. As a crop it could produce some 10 to 50 barrels of biodiesel per acre, it can be intercropped with food and other crops, and can also be used as a hedgerow. It is not suitable for coverting into charcoal and goats can browse the plant without killing it. It also has a big advantage in that it grows virtually anywhere.
Much of Haiti's so called development has been modeled after Pacific rim countries, where the production textiles for export to the US have benefitted few and there is no interest in improving the workers' wages-- that would make them less competative. Sadly, there is no shortage of workers who will work 10-12 hour shifts for a few dollars a day. Haiti could do far better by making biofuel and other agricultural production its economic center. It would shift Haiti back to its agrarian roots and benefit to the most Haitian people for their immediate needs of fuel and food security. We have tried for 50 years to fix Haiti from the top down. It is time to give bottom up management a try.
@ NALS:
Don't think it as a joke. There is a theory that Global Warming might lead to earthquakes. It is a less accepted theory, but never the less some geologists believe in it. Global Warming Might Spur Earthquakes and Volcanoes | LiveScience
Back to the topic:
I was going to post a similar thread. Haiti must be changed or it must cease to exist. I believe Haiti merely exists in name and in the hearts of its people; can it truly be considered a nation when it does not have any qualities to classify it as one?
The Haitian culture must change gradually over time, but now is the time for them (United Nation, World Powers, Haitian Government, etc.) to build the social and civil infrastructure that will help launch the needed change. I think many of us can agree that education is the first step; an area of education that they should focus on is agriculture. I would not dismiss the role of Haitian voodoo in the demise of the country (not the earthquake, but development), but I don't view it as a curse as other people say, for that is an ignorant statement. Voodoo's role is how it programs people to interact with their environment.
Don't think it as a joke. There is a theory that Global Warming might lead to earthquakes. It is a less accepted theory, but never the less some geologists believe in it. Global Warming Might Spur Earthquakes and Volcanoes | LiveScience
Back to the topic:
I was going to post a similar thread. Haiti must be changed or it must cease to exist. I believe Haiti merely exists in name and in the hearts of its people; can it truly be considered a nation when it does not have any qualities to classify it as one?
The Haitian culture must change gradually over time, but now is the time for them (United Nation, World Powers, Haitian Government, etc.) to build the social and civil infrastructure that will help launch the needed change. I think many of us can agree that education is the first step; an area of education that they should focus on is agriculture. I would not dismiss the role of Haitian voodoo in the demise of the country (not the earthquake, but development), but I don't view it as a curse as other people say, for that is an ignorant statement. Voodoo's role is how it programs people to interact with their environment.
i think the culture change comes before education. if they don't really want to learn and have the reinforcement around them for why its important, the education won't work
LOL!
Yeah, the melting glaciers of Haiti and the DR lessened the crust pressure and caused that quake!:cheeky:
Good post
and thanks!!
On the English Haiti list serve, we have been discussing this for a couple of years.
Here is the problem we are up against with propane in Haiti..
The poor do not have enough money to fill a propane tank.
Now,,,, if we could find refillable containers more on the size of camping fuel that we have in the States... THAT would be great.
Also the type of propane tank that is used in Haiti has a connector that is outlawed in most countries (but of course written into LAW in Haiti probably by the guy who runs the business).. so that has to be changed so that tanks and propane can just come in from the DR.
The Bagasse pellets have not yet proved to be economical. Ditto the Jatropha stoves.
But both of them are in use in some parts.
The other issue is the culture of charcoal... a mom starts the charcoal fire in the AM, puts on the rice and beans, and can leave a child to tend it since there is only enough fuel to cook that pot. There is no chance of fire or of wasting fuel. A propane stove requires constant tending.
The same is true for solar stoves.. it has to be turned and tended.
Not that these are insurmountable problems but they need to be considered.
Aside from Clinton and the factory owners there is little support in Haiti for the development model being pushed on them of the factory work. They had that and those factories were the first things to be looted and shut under JBA-
There does seem to be longing for self sustainable argiculture on the small and medium scale... to bring the country back to food sufficiency.. which it had, really, I believe until the 80s when the pigs were slaughtered and the subsidized US rice started to come in.
It is good to remember that Balaguer introduced the gas stove and subsidized propane here in the 80s.. and set aside vast tracks of National Parks under protection.. So I am sure that many Dominicans appreciate that there but for fortune...
Not to forget the trade winds which bless this side of the island and the mountains which curse the other.
But Haiti is broken now, on her knees. The people have lost everything in PAP and are now going to the countryside where their families will be hard pressed to feed them, as well, shortly.
If anyone can figure out how to refill those little propane tanks... we may have a good opening to get them in production and over there.
Thanks again for a great post!
I also think the bagasse pellets are a ways away, but in the interim, the US can certainly be sending fuel pellets and charcoal brickets to stem the fuel crisis. Leucania trees would really be great if they could get a foothold in Haiti because they are nitrogen fixing and again can be used for fodder. What happens now from what I hear is a pilot project gets going for six months or a year and the NGO comes in to find that the trees have either been cut down as firewood, or goats have girdled the tree after eating what foliage they could reach. This is simply not the kind of project that can be done on small scale.
Cooking fuel is one of the most undervalued commodities in the third world in terms of labor. In many cultures. women spend half of their day collecting fuelwood. Typically, when women collect the wood they are breaking off branches or collecting fallen wood and not killing the trees, but when men produce firewood, they cut down whole trees and convert it into charcoal. No money is exchange when women collect wood since it is for their own use, but charcoal is a for profit industry, adding to the GDP of a nation. Urban households use charcoal because a truckload load of charcoal will sell for far more than a truckload of wood and transportation is a major factor. But in the conversion of wood to charcoal, 70% of the caloric heat value of the wood is lost. So when someone moves to a city, their demand for wood as a cooking fuel increases by nearly four-fold. The urbanization of Haiti has likely doubled the demand for charcoal.
Wood can be a sustainable cooking fuel through coppicing, You can see trees that have been coppiced along roadsides in the DR often as living fences. Once or twice a year the new growth is cut away from the tree leaving the main trunk still alive. The system works as long as there is enough fuel, but in Haiti the problem would also be that trees would be cut down for charcoal for export so any tree is fair game for theft. The demand for exporting charcoal into the DR must be eliminated/curtailed if any reforestation project is to succeed in Haiti.
I agree that traditions and practices are a must for any new system to work. With what you have mentioned, I'm sure you have heard about the problems faced with the introduction of the Jiko stove in Africa. This is a good website telling the wonders of the stove:
The Kenya Ceramic Jiko
Unfortunately, it seems that many in Kenya's rural areas do not have access to the internet! It has been a long haul getting this device to be accepted and the turning point came when they NGO promoting the stove realized that foreign white men who do not speak the local language are not good at telling Kenyan women how they should cook their food! Go figure. They finally were able to get a group of Kenyan women to go out and demonstrate the stove and it has started to be more popular. I wonder what a different country Haiti would be if the stove had been introduced there 30 years ago.
PS--
The trade winds issue is part of the lack of rain in Haiti, but so is the deforestation. Because the trees are not absorbing the heat from the sun, the soil gets hot and reflects the heat back up into the sky. This creates massive thermal columns that can actually push rain clouds away from the island.
Cooking fuel is one of the most undervalued commodities in the third world in terms of labor. In many cultures. women spend half of their day collecting fuelwood. Typically, when women collect the wood they are breaking off branches or collecting fallen wood and not killing the trees, but when men produce firewood, they cut down whole trees and convert it into charcoal. No money is exchange when women collect wood since it is for their own use, but charcoal is a for profit industry, adding to the GDP of a nation. Urban households use charcoal because a truckload load of charcoal will sell for far more than a truckload of wood and transportation is a major factor. But in the conversion of wood to charcoal, 70% of the caloric heat value of the wood is lost. So when someone moves to a city, their demand for wood as a cooking fuel increases by nearly four-fold. The urbanization of Haiti has likely doubled the demand for charcoal.
Wood can be a sustainable cooking fuel through coppicing, You can see trees that have been coppiced along roadsides in the DR often as living fences. Once or twice a year the new growth is cut away from the tree leaving the main trunk still alive. The system works as long as there is enough fuel, but in Haiti the problem would also be that trees would be cut down for charcoal for export so any tree is fair game for theft. The demand for exporting charcoal into the DR must be eliminated/curtailed if any reforestation project is to succeed in Haiti.
I agree that traditions and practices are a must for any new system to work. With what you have mentioned, I'm sure you have heard about the problems faced with the introduction of the Jiko stove in Africa. This is a good website telling the wonders of the stove:
The Kenya Ceramic Jiko
Unfortunately, it seems that many in Kenya's rural areas do not have access to the internet! It has been a long haul getting this device to be accepted and the turning point came when they NGO promoting the stove realized that foreign white men who do not speak the local language are not good at telling Kenyan women how they should cook their food! Go figure. They finally were able to get a group of Kenyan women to go out and demonstrate the stove and it has started to be more popular. I wonder what a different country Haiti would be if the stove had been introduced there 30 years ago.
PS--
The trade winds issue is part of the lack of rain in Haiti, but so is the deforestation. Because the trees are not absorbing the heat from the sun, the soil gets hot and reflects the heat back up into the sky. This creates massive thermal columns that can actually push rain clouds away from the island.
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