- Thread starter Cdn_Gringo
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The Gringo Report April 8 2016 - You are not in Kansas anymore?
Who is this addressed to, me? Some of my posts are disappearing faster than cotton candy in a monsoon.
No Detroit is not as safe as Irvine Calif. Sorry I lost you. My point wasn't you must be on guard everywhere, my point was that SOSUA and JARABACOA aren't so different. It's not the same comparison as Dertoit and Irvine, Calif.
It is indisputable than when one makes a move from a developed country to a developing one, specifically to any country in the Caribbean and particularly DR in 2016, some of those assurances about daily living and your safe being are not going to be on level par with what you had perhaps enjoyed back home.
The majority of DR posters who have second homes here will likely have lived in safe secure well serviced communities back home in 1st World domain.
Why keep drawing unnecessary comparisons when one has made the move? One should have understood better what to expect and adjust one's lifestyle accordingly? I guess just vacationing a dozen times does not give one the full picture and you have to 'live the new life' is one message we have been given in the OP.
DR, like the many small Caribbean nations, suffers a great deal in particular from the ills brought on it in more recent years through drug transit and increasing domestic use and everything that stems from it. The country was and remains in many parts poor and is developing in many ways, but agreed it still does not have a grip on many of the structures that keep society organized and safe. But so too are many other developing nations. They are still developing in the face of many challenges. Accept it and why compare?
It is what it is, but there are many more safer havens to live a pleasant enjoyable life than you seem to suggest in DR with the right approach. Sosua is a very imperfect example of DR living. Try and compare living in Sosua with Las Terrenas, the central city areas of Santo Domingo or even Bavaro for example. I can vouch for Las Terrenas as being a place you can life safely with normal caution. And I don't feel uneasy walking around and doing my day to day business in many of the better suburbs in the city. But agreed there are places where far greater caution is needed.
It is all relative. DR is out home and a nice one at that imo.
Actually they are quite different. Very little open play for money in Jarabacoa and the majority of the town is very safe. Jarabacoa has an agricultural economy with tourism playing a much smaller part. Most crime is petty crime, although the recent killing of an Italian guy changed that. That apparently was a drug deal gone wrong, however the facts are murky on that.
Again. Robert deleted Gorgon's qoute on prostitution you quoted Gorgon's qoute post deleted. Understand??????
Too many negatives here, let's focus on the good points:
1. The weather is perfect - most of the time.
2. The people on the whole are friendly and accept foreigners
3. You can buy a beachfront 5 bedroom villa with pool, garden and garage for the equivalent price of a studio in London.
4. You can hire full time servants to look after all your domestic chores and even look after your children for around $200 per month.
5. Driving is fun. There are no rules and fuel is cheap (unless you're from USA) But petrol is half the price than UK.
6. There are very few rules in general. And the ones in force are easy to comply with. (eg compared to Muslim country)
7. Taxes are low.
8. There is unrestricted fast internet.
9. The phones work.
10. I can buy stuff from Amazon and eBay and get them delivered to my home.
11. The women are beautiful and if you choose the right one she'll treat you like a king.
12. There are many activities to keep you busy.
13 It's a big country so you never get that feeling of island fever. Beaches, mountains, rivers, desert, jungle and big cities.
14. There are parts of this island where you can do all your first world stuff, eg cinemas, shopping, fine dining, luxury hotels etc.
16. If you are careful your money will go a lot further than in a 1st world country.
16. It's a plane ride away from your home country.
17. Did I mention the weather?
1. The weather is perfect - most of the time.
2. The people on the whole are friendly and accept foreigners
3. You can buy a beachfront 5 bedroom villa with pool, garden and garage for the equivalent price of a studio in London.
4. You can hire full time servants to look after all your domestic chores and even look after your children for around $200 per month.
5. Driving is fun. There are no rules and fuel is cheap (unless you're from USA) But petrol is half the price than UK.
6. There are very few rules in general. And the ones in force are easy to comply with. (eg compared to Muslim country)
7. Taxes are low.
8. There is unrestricted fast internet.
9. The phones work.
10. I can buy stuff from Amazon and eBay and get them delivered to my home.
11. The women are beautiful and if you choose the right one she'll treat you like a king.
12. There are many activities to keep you busy.
13 It's a big country so you never get that feeling of island fever. Beaches, mountains, rivers, desert, jungle and big cities.
14. There are parts of this island where you can do all your first world stuff, eg cinemas, shopping, fine dining, luxury hotels etc.
16. If you are careful your money will go a lot further than in a 1st world country.
16. It's a plane ride away from your home country.
17. Did I mention the weather?
Perhaps many negatives, but they are all realities nevertheless. And I don't think Cdn_Gringo started this thread with the intention of focusing on how wonderful the weather is or how nice the people are here. Look at the title, You are not in Kansas anymore . . . That kinda says it all. And please don't take this as an indictment of your post because it isn't. All 17 of your points contain a lot of truth.
I just don't think the importance of this thread should be trivialized by deflecting from it's original intention by putting on our collective rose colored glasses or commenting on how mass murders by lone gunmen are occurring in our home countries. As Cdn_Gringo clearly states in the opening paragraph of his post, HE LIVES HERE.
I believe many others also feel that this thread is important or has some relevance to their own lives. It apparently has piqued the interest of quite a few DR1 members with almost 9,000 views in just three days.
Unfortunately the impetus for Cdn_Gringo's poignant post was the murder of a Canadian citizen right here in his own backyard. Part of the first two paragraphs of which, I will quote here, only becuase it is a lengthy post, and I believe this excerpt succinctly sumarizes the entire post and his stated desire. And also for some other posters who, as they stated, were either unwilling to read the entire post or for other reasons just could not. Some may not fully appreciate this very important part of the overall message.
This particular tragedy hits close to home for me as well. I know a very close companion of the murder victim, who some have wrongly conjectured may have had some involvement. And although I don't personally know the two accused of committing the murder, I have seen them in Sos?a.
Due to my current employment, some of my duties entail working quite often with certain foreign citizens here in the Dominican Republic who are victims of crime, accused of crimes, incarcerated, have medical emergencies and a host of other similar issues. Many times I have to document these events and submit written reports to my "hire-ups" in a nightmarishly beauracratic chain of command. So perhaps some of the observations in my posts here seem to be negative, but they are the realities of living here. And most of the comparisons I post can apply equally to Jarabacoa and equally to Sos?a. The caveats stated by the OP apply to the whole country. Certain things apply to certain places, some more than others, but in general apply to the entire country.
One of my most concerning observations is how the murders of foreigners and crimes committed against them are occurring with disturbing and accelerating frequency, So I don't think too much can be written about some of the "negatives" if it helps even one person avoid being a victim. Most foreigners on vacation here and even many who live here are not aware of the alarming increase in crime recently. There is much more than is being reported by the press and the media, especially on the east coast. So perhaps Cdn_Gringo's thread will help keep some of us from becoming the next statistic to be discussed on DR1. Being aware and informed can only increase one's safety.
I just don't think the importance of this thread should be trivialized by deflecting from it's original intention by putting on our collective rose colored glasses or commenting on how mass murders by lone gunmen are occurring in our home countries. As Cdn_Gringo clearly states in the opening paragraph of his post, HE LIVES HERE.
I believe many others also feel that this thread is important or has some relevance to their own lives. It apparently has piqued the interest of quite a few DR1 members with almost 9,000 views in just three days.
Unfortunately the impetus for Cdn_Gringo's poignant post was the murder of a Canadian citizen right here in his own backyard. Part of the first two paragraphs of which, I will quote here, only becuase it is a lengthy post, and I believe this excerpt succinctly sumarizes the entire post and his stated desire. And also for some other posters who, as they stated, were either unwilling to read the entire post or for other reasons just could not. Some may not fully appreciate this very important part of the overall message.
This particular tragedy hits close to home for me as well. I know a very close companion of the murder victim, who some have wrongly conjectured may have had some involvement. And although I don't personally know the two accused of committing the murder, I have seen them in Sos?a.
Due to my current employment, some of my duties entail working quite often with certain foreign citizens here in the Dominican Republic who are victims of crime, accused of crimes, incarcerated, have medical emergencies and a host of other similar issues. Many times I have to document these events and submit written reports to my "hire-ups" in a nightmarishly beauracratic chain of command. So perhaps some of the observations in my posts here seem to be negative, but they are the realities of living here. And most of the comparisons I post can apply equally to Jarabacoa and equally to Sos?a. The caveats stated by the OP apply to the whole country. Certain things apply to certain places, some more than others, but in general apply to the entire country.
One of my most concerning observations is how the murders of foreigners and crimes committed against them are occurring with disturbing and accelerating frequency, So I don't think too much can be written about some of the "negatives" if it helps even one person avoid being a victim. Most foreigners on vacation here and even many who live here are not aware of the alarming increase in crime recently. There is much more than is being reported by the press and the media, especially on the east coast. So perhaps Cdn_Gringo's thread will help keep some of us from becoming the next statistic to be discussed on DR1. Being aware and informed can only increase one's safety.
Here's the ultimate thing for me:
People post negatives, all the time. It's easier to focus on the bad stuff than the good, human nature, I suppose.
I don't see people denying any of the bad stuff. What I do notice, is that despite it all, they're still in DR.
For most, that means on some level they made a decision that whatever they've romanticized back home is still less desirable than whatever they've demonized in DR.
That may be a beach, a job, a spouse, kids, their overall lifestyle, their health, something else, or a combination of things.
And if venting sometimes makes the tough bits a little more palatable, then it's all good.
People post negatives, all the time. It's easier to focus on the bad stuff than the good, human nature, I suppose.
I don't see people denying any of the bad stuff. What I do notice, is that despite it all, they're still in DR.
For most, that means on some level they made a decision that whatever they've romanticized back home is still less desirable than whatever they've demonized in DR.
That may be a beach, a job, a spouse, kids, their overall lifestyle, their health, something else, or a combination of things.
And if venting sometimes makes the tough bits a little more palatable, then it's all good.
Some excellent observations. The odd rant is definitely good for your emotional soul. Sorta like a laxative to remove the emotional constipation that's built up for any number of reasons. Where I come from we actually have a song titled, "We'll rant and we'll roar like true Newfoundlanders". A love of music, drink, and close family ties also help us cope with the vagaries of life. Living in the DR and enjoying all the craziness it has to offer made me realize sometimes it's better to live an hour of ecstasy in hell than a life of boredom in heaven. The DR may not be a paradise in the true sense of the word or Paradise Lost for that matter but I have moments of solitude here in beautiful remote areas when I fell I'm truly in paradise.
Of course it's true criminals don't victimize foreigners only. Foreigner crime victims get more recognition on sites like this. Many of the precautions mentioned in that long post are familiar to anyone who has lived or especially grown up in an urban area. Situational awareness comes with experience. If it's a chore, then I think it's best to move on.
For me the good things about living here far out weigh the bad.
I have a tendency to agree with the negatives (sometimes) then just get on with
living my life. As it should be.
The only thing with which I disagree fundamentally is that Internet is fast.
And that driving is fun. I drove for 20+ years in the US and I could count on my fingers and toes the number of times I bamped the horn. Once I figured out this horn fixation here, I do freely admit that driving is slightly less white-knuckle, but fun I wouldn't call it.
And that driving is fun. I drove for 20+ years in the US and I could count on my fingers and toes the number of times I bamped the horn. Once I figured out this horn fixation here, I do freely admit that driving is slightly less white-knuckle, but fun I wouldn't call it.
Go the next island up the Caribbean chain and tell me what the internet is like. Cuba doesn't want its citizens to have unrestricted contact with the outside world.
My internet even gives me a US IP address and it's fast enough to watch HD tv. So it's a matter of choice rather than availability.
There are things that will happen to you in DR. Things that no matter what, will eventually happen, negative experiences.
The quicker you encounter these the sooner you will understand where you are living and slowly but surely the reality of you
decision is realized and then you know in yourself what an idiot you have been, or not, depends what your options were before
and how much you committed.
I have told people, lots of people who moved to the country certain things that I know will happen, and the usual response is, 'oh
we have great neighbours, no one will try us, everyone has our backs, we got this'. But every time without fail EVERYTHING I have
predicted has happened within a few years to them or close enough to effect them as if it had, and the realization that it really does
take time to know what you're up against hits home. In some way or another all the sh1t does hit the fan in certain fundamental
issues expats have with moving into Dominican society, and that is purely because we come from civilized societies where we
could not even imagine half the stuff that does go down ever playing out in a badly written Tarantino movie.
There is a reason there are few expats that have been living full time for plus 10-15 years unless tied to investment, and yes I know
we have some, but to be real the average span when you ask is around 10 years, that is considered long term. The most common
period is 4-6 years before people have had their buzz and if they can and have not trapped themselves then as I said above, find
a way to realize that the DR is certainly not paradise, most people would love to end their days in paradise, right.
Other than that everyone finds a way of releasing themselves, that is just a point in notice.
Yes we have people who find that special place, that special someone, or that business that creates their own personal reasoning to
live above and out of reach of the life among Dominican Society, but they are the overwhelming minority, I think the Dominican
is best savoured as a part time indulgence, a temporary exploration or life over several years, but I've never met anyone who would
say they want to die there, live out their last days, and that is truly what being at peace, tranquility and absolute comfort is all about, isn't it.
So if you don't feel like that then you certainly ain't found paradise. You only live once.
The quicker you encounter these the sooner you will understand where you are living and slowly but surely the reality of you
decision is realized and then you know in yourself what an idiot you have been, or not, depends what your options were before
and how much you committed.
I have told people, lots of people who moved to the country certain things that I know will happen, and the usual response is, 'oh
we have great neighbours, no one will try us, everyone has our backs, we got this'. But every time without fail EVERYTHING I have
predicted has happened within a few years to them or close enough to effect them as if it had, and the realization that it really does
take time to know what you're up against hits home. In some way or another all the sh1t does hit the fan in certain fundamental
issues expats have with moving into Dominican society, and that is purely because we come from civilized societies where we
could not even imagine half the stuff that does go down ever playing out in a badly written Tarantino movie.
There is a reason there are few expats that have been living full time for plus 10-15 years unless tied to investment, and yes I know
we have some, but to be real the average span when you ask is around 10 years, that is considered long term. The most common
period is 4-6 years before people have had their buzz and if they can and have not trapped themselves then as I said above, find
a way to realize that the DR is certainly not paradise, most people would love to end their days in paradise, right.
Other than that everyone finds a way of releasing themselves, that is just a point in notice.
Yes we have people who find that special place, that special someone, or that business that creates their own personal reasoning to
live above and out of reach of the life among Dominican Society, but they are the overwhelming minority, I think the Dominican
is best savoured as a part time indulgence, a temporary exploration or life over several years, but I've never met anyone who would
say they want to die there, live out their last days, and that is truly what being at peace, tranquility and absolute comfort is all about, isn't it.
So if you don't feel like that then you certainly ain't found paradise. You only live once.
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