Don't Praise Trujillo in DR

[mofongoloco]

Wow, Ogre. Great post.

And, I can't believe I'm going to write this, but... Thanks Airgordo. You got me reading on the Evian Conference. Nobody came out of that smelling like a rose. It frightens me to think that on the eve of what would become WW2 I see we are using the same methods. Will someone please dig up Winston Churchill.

 

[Meemselle]

Trujillio committed to taking up to 40,000 Jewish people in WWII to avoid the death camps. Not that many came and most of the ones that did left after the war but the fact remains he was willing to accept them.
That shouldn't be ignored. I'm not saying the guy was a saint but he did do a few good things.

He actually offered safe passage to 100,000 European Jews, but by 1940, there weren't 100,000 European Jews who could get their hands on their own money, passports, travel documents, etc. So ultimately, it was about 720 who made it, most in Sosua but some in Santo Domingo. Santo Domingo also absorbed a contingent of Shanghai Jews towards the end of the war, when things went bad for that settlement. By the 1950s, when they could get documents to leave, many/most did. Life here was just too hard: they weren't farmers. They were carpenters, dentists, cheesemakers, teachers, etc., and they wanted a more sophisticated life and better education for their children.

 

[Chirimoya]

Trujillo's motivation for allowing Jewish refugees into the Dominican Republic was basically sinister. He wanted to deflect international condemnation for the mass murder of Haitians residing in the Dominican Republic a year earlier. Trujillo was the subject of particularly pointed attacks from Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Trujillo feared that his growing isolation would lead to his regime's downfall.

Taking in Jewish refugees accomplished several things: He gained positive publicity from segments of the foreign press; he could use the Austrian and German Jews to accelerate his plans to whiten the Dominican Republic; and he could make a quite profit off of American Jewish groups who funded the refugees. There is a lot of written on this matter; it's best to research it for yourself.

There is a lot that can be written about Trujillo's relationship with the Jews. I wrote about this 10-11 years ago, but I believe the threads have all been deleted. A few quick comments:

Trujillo admired Hitler. He used to watch newsreels and read everything he could on him. Trujillo adopted Jack boots and even wool great coats (which aroused a lot of comments in this country's tropical climate) in his attempt to copy Hitler's style. Trujillo's only real criticism of Hitler was Hitler's refusal to bemedal himself (Hitler wore only the medals he was awarded during World War One, which included two Iron Crosses). Trujillo's daughter, Flor de Oro and her husband, the egregious Profirio Rubrosa, were invited by Hitler to share his box at the 1936 Olympic Games in Germany.

More needs to be said about Rubirosa. Profirio was implicated in the murder of a wealthy Polish Jewish goldsmith and jewelry store owner. (Rubirosa almost certainly murdered the hapless victim personally) and pocketed a fortune in gold and jewelry. When a Dominican diplomat telegraphed Trujillo with the details of the murder, Trujillo fired the diplomat.

Rubirosa was involved in "helping" Jews escape Hitler. From memory he was selling visas to them. He would brag later" I made a lot of money off the Jews back then. Didn't everybody?"

Trujillo made no attempt to redress this situation.

I find it hard to believe that an investigation of the Dominican episode would inspire the Israeli government to award "Righteous among nations" to the Dominican Republic, Profirio Rubirosa, or Trujillo.

If anyone deserves any mention at all, it would be Flor de Oro. Flor de Oro had attended a posh girls school in France with some very well connected students, including an Afghan princess and several European Jewish girls. One of them, wearing the uniform of one her maids, made her way to Flor's residence in Berlin and begged for help escaping Germany. (From memory) Flor appealed directly to her father, and he finally agreed to issue a transit visa.

The Dominican people themselves had nothing to do with it. Why should they be honored?

The Dominican Jewish colony was used (and "we allowed ourselves to be used"-Jewish refugee in a post Trujillo Era interview) by Trujillo to gain political dividends until the day he died. But that's another story...

Good post. Feelings towards Trujillo seem to be ambivalent, based on comments by the lady from the community who showed us round the museum in Sosua.
She said that regardless of motivation, his actions had saved all those families so he merited some kind of acknowledgement, which is absent in the museum.

 

[airgordo]

Does anyone know if the DR, or Trujillo for that matter, are acknowledged any way in Israel for their role, like other countries (like Denmark) and individuals (like Schindler, Wallenberg and so many others) are? The "righteous among the nations"?
I get the impression that it's not a very well known episode in history beyond the DR.

In my opinion he should not, he was a murdered, a thief and a got to believe at the end that he was like god...however as in everything in life there are not ABSOLUTE truths, no body is totally 100% good or bad, he did Various Good things both for the country and for others like jews and Japanese.

 

[harry myrtle beach]

He actually offered safe passage to 100,000 European Jews, but by 1940, there weren't 100,000 European Jews who could get their hands on their own money, passports, travel documents, etc. So ultimately, it was about 720 who made it, most in Sosua but some in Santo Domingo. Santo Domingo also absorbed a contingent of Shanghai Jews towards the end of the war, when things went bad for that settlement. By the 1950s, when they could get documents to leave, many/most did. Life here was just too hard: they weren't farmers. They were carpenters, dentists, cheesemakers, teachers, etc., and they wanted a more sophisticated life and better education for their children.

I have no praise for Trujillo but when he committed to allow Jews in the DR at the Evian Conference July 6-15,1938 no other country in the world offered to accept any Jews at all.

 

[airgordo]

Trujillo's motivation for allowing Jewish refugees into the Dominican Republic was basically sinister. He wanted to deflect international condemnation for the mass murder of Haitians residing in the Dominican Republic a year earlier. Trujillo was the subject of particularly pointed attacks from Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Trujillo feared that his growing isolation would lead to his regime's downfall.

Taking in Jewish refugees accomplished several things: He gained positive publicity from segments of the foreign press; he could use the Austrian and German Jews to accelerate his plans to whiten the Dominican Republic; and he could make a quite profit off of American Jewish groups who funded the refugees. There is a lot of written on this matter; it's best to research it for yourself.

There is a lot that can be written about Trujillo's relationship with the Jews. I wrote about this 10-11 years ago, but I believe the threads have all been deleted. A few quick comments:

Trujillo admired Hitler. He used to watch newsreels and read everything he could on him. Trujillo adopted Jack boots and even wool great coats (which aroused a lot of comments in this country's tropical climate) in his attempt to copy Hitler's style. Trujillo's only real criticism of Hitler was Hitler's refusal to bemedal himself (Hitler wore only the medals he was awarded during World War One, which included two Iron Crosses). Trujillo's daughter, Flor de Oro and her husband, the egregious Profirio Rubrosa, were invited by Hitler to share his box at the 1936 Olympic Games in Germany.

More needs to be said about Rubirosa. Profirio was implicated in the murder of a wealthy Polish Jewish goldsmith and jewelry store owner. (Rubirosa almost certainly murdered the hapless victim personally) and pocketed a fortune in gold and jewelry. When a Dominican diplomat telegraphed Trujillo with the details of the murder, Trujillo fired the diplomat.

Rubirosa was involved in "helping" Jews escape Hitler. From memory he was selling visas to them. He would brag later" I made a lot of money off the Jews back then. Didn't everybody?"

Trujillo made no attempt to redress this situation.

I find it hard to believe that an investigation of the Dominican episode would inspire the Israeli government to award "Righteous among nations" to the Dominican Republic, Profirio Rubirosa, or Trujillo.

If anyone deserves any mention at all, it would be Flor de Oro. Flor de Oro had attended a posh girls school in France with some very well connected students, including an Afghan princess and several European Jewish girls. One of them, wearing the uniform of one her maids, made her way to Flor's residence in Berlin and begged for help escaping Germany. (From memory) Flor appealed directly to her father, and he finally agreed to issue a transit visa.

The Dominican people themselves had nothing to do with it. Why should they be honored?

The Dominican Jewish colony was used (and "we allowed ourselves to be used"-Jewish refugee in a post Trujillo Era interview) by Trujillo to gain political dividends until the day he died. But that's another story...

Trujillo had a relationship with Hitler THROUGH his VERY GOOD buddy Francisco Franco but I don't think it was as early as you post here, as far as I can remember the DR even declared war on Hitler's Germany...

One thing it is never mentioned about El Corte is that if Trujillo was evil for killing those people, the Haitians were WORSE, they took payment from Trujillo and then even offered a discount, not a single penny of that money, Over 1/2 million USD, reached the victims

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Trujillo had a relationship with Hitler THROUGH his VERY GOOD buddy Francisco Franco but I don't think it was as early as you post here, as far as I can remember the DR even declared war on Hitler's Germany...

One thing it is never mentioned about El Corte is that if Trujillo was evil for killing those people, the Haitians were WORSE, they took payment from Trujillo and then even offered a discount, not a single penny of that money, Over 1/2 million USD, reached the victims

Franco didn't come to power until the late 1930s. Trujillo's admiration of Hitler pre-dated the Spanish Civil War and Franco's rise to power. Franco did not introduce Hitler to Trujillo. Where on earth did you get that information? You are completely misinformed.

Trujillo declared war on Hitler for his own benefit. Virtually all of Latin America eventually declared war on Germany, simply to be on the winning side. Trujillo opting to declare war on Hitler means nothing-really. Trujillo saw the advantage. The war also allowed Trujillo gain a lot from the United States (even before either country had entered the war).

Trujillo took in Spanish refugees from the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s, but the refugees were all anti-fascists fleeing Franco. Trujillo's relationship with Franco didn't start until after Hitler was dead.

Franco was isolated after the end of the war, a fascist leader marooned in a now anti-fascist Europe. Trujillo, like Franco, would see saw back and fourth between international pariah and being semi-acceptable throughout his rule. Trujillo pursued relations with Franco and Franco was grateful for any ally he could find. Trujillo reveled in being feted in Europe and being decorated by Franco. The abrazo photos helped legitimize Trujillo's rule. Both men kind of needed each other at the time.

I do not think that a corrupt Haitian government stealing money (which is something they have always done) makes them worse than Trujillo committing mass murder.
.

 

[NALs]

Hitler was actually quite a celebrity, his books were widely read. Of course, that was before people found out what he was up to, then everything changed.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are completely unaware that Duvalier killed more people than Trujillo during his entire regime. And Duvalier's victims were practically all Haitians. Estimates go as high as 60K for Duvalier, if my memory doesn't fails me.

The million dollar question arises: Why does in this day and age Duvalier not receive as much attention as Trujillo does?

Are people afraid of saying that no other type of human being kills more Haitians than Haitians? That most Haitians killed by any government regime were killed within the borders of Haiti itself? This difference is not by a small margin, yet not many people know and much less even care to know.

 

[markright23]

The people that praise him are really stupid but they should have the right to express their opinion.

 

[markright23]

I?ve been told by people who were young adults during his rule ,
when he ruled this country the crime rate was much lower and a
lot less government corruption.

He was the CORRUPTION. They don't like freedom or something. It's like they need to have a "big daddy" to tell them what to do.

 

[Chirimoya]

Hitler was actually quite a celebrity, his books were widely read. Of course, that was before people found out what he was up to, then everything changed.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are completely unaware that Duvalier killed more people than Trujillo during his entire regime. And Duvalier's victims were practically all Haitians. Estimates go as high as 60K for Duvalier, if my memory doesn't fails me.

The million dollar question arises: Why does in this day and age Duvalier not receive as much attention as Trujillo does?

Are people afraid of saying that no other type of human being kills more Haitians than Haitians? That most Haitians killed by any government regime were killed within the borders of Haiti itself? This difference is not by a small margin, yet not many people know and much less even care to know.

Pretty sure that more people around the world know who Duvalier was.

 

[AlterEgo]

Pretty sure that more people around the world know who Duvalier was.

I agree with you - but do you think it's because his "reign" was more recent?

I never heard of Trujillo, but I was a little girl when he died. I remember learning about the revolution in Ciudad Trujillo in school, but didn't have a clue where it was.

 

[Chirimoya]

It could be that.
Generally speaking, not very many people know much about either country, but those with some superficial knowledge tend to associate Haiti with "Papa Doc", "Baby Doc", AIDS and "voodoo", while the DR is associated with much nicer things like baseball players and package holidays.

 

[Meemselle]

I have no praise for Trujillo but when he committed to allow Jews in the DR at the Evian Conference July 6-15,1938 no other country in the world offered to accept any Jews at all.

Actually, there were about 20,000 Jewish refugees in Shanghai. They weren't exactly "welcomed," and by the end of the war, there was tremendous pressure from both Germany and Japan to expel them, and some of them came to the DR.

So the DR's claim to be the only country to offer sanctuary is not technically true. However, the "welcoming" part is by and large true. One of Trujillo's miscalculations was that Jewish men would marry Dominican women on a large scale and "lighten and brighten" the local population. While there were some men who did---because Trujillo only permitted married couples and single men (no single women)---most did not, and when the war was over and they could get visas to go to Canada, the US, etc., they mostly did.

Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland, while not publicly offering sanctuary, did permit thousands of Jewish refugees to cross their borders without incident, although Switzerland's enthusiasm for the effort ended after about 20,000 crossed the border and the country started turning refugees away.

 

[Derfish]

It could be that.
Generally speaking, not very many people know much about either country, but those with some superficial knowledge tend to associate Haiti with "Papa Doc", "Baby Doc", AIDS and "voodoo", while the DR is associated with much nicer things like baseball players and package holidays.

And bikinis full of brown girls.

 

[Derfish]

He was the CORRUPTION. They don't like freedom or something. It's like they need to have a "big daddy" to tell them what to do.

NOt this time around, but the election before the one fruit cake advertised with a slogan of Daddy's here! (Papi LLego) What could be more paternalistic than that attitude?

 

[harry myrtle beach]

Actually, there were about 20,000 Jewish refugees in Shanghai. They weren't exactly "welcomed," and by the end of the war, there was tremendous pressure from both Germany and Japan to expel them, and some of them came to the DR.

So the DR's claim to be the only country to offer sanctuary is not technically true. However, the "welcoming" part is by and large true. One of Trujillo's miscalculations was that Jewish men would marry Dominican women on a large scale and "lighten and brighten" the local population. While there were some men who did---because Trujillo only permitted married couples and single men (no single women)---most did not, and when the war was over and they could get visas to go to Canada, the US, etc., they mostly did.

Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland, while not publicly offering sanctuary, did permit thousands of Jewish refugees to cross their borders without incident, although Switzerland's enthusiasm for the effort ended after about 20,000 crossed the border and the country started turning refugees away.

Thank you for the correction but I was referring to the Evian Conference. There were also many stories of individuals that did brave deeds to help the Jews. But the Evian Conference showed the attitude of most of the world to the plight of the Jews.

 

[airgordo]

Franco didn't come to power until the late 1930s. Trujillo's admiration of Hitler pre-dated the Spanish Civil War and Franco's rise to power. Franco did not introduce Hitler to Trujillo. Where on earth did you get that information? You are completely misinformed.

Trujillo declared war on Hitler for his own benefit. Virtually all of Latin America eventually declared war on Germany, simply to be on the winning side. Trujillo opting to declare war on Hitler means nothing-really. Trujillo saw the advantage. The war also allowed Trujillo gain a lot from the United States (even before either country had entered the war).

Trujillo took in Spanish refugees from the Spanish Civil War in the 1930s, but the refugees were all anti-fascists fleeing Franco. Trujillo's relationship with Franco didn't start until after Hitler was dead.

Franco was isolated after the end of the war, a fascist leader marooned in a now anti-fascist Europe. Trujillo, like Franco, would see saw back and fourth between international pariah and being semi-acceptable throughout his rule. Trujillo pursued relations with Franco and Franco was grateful for any ally he could find. Trujillo reveled in being feted in Europe and being decorated by Franco. The abrazo photos helped legitimize Trujillo's rule. Both men kind of needed each other at the time.

I do not think that a corrupt Haitian government stealing money (which is something they have always done) makes them worse than Trujillo committing mass murder.
.

If i am missinformed it should be easy to denmostrate isn't it? Exactly what is that i written that prompt you to write duch a thing? Let's see your evidence...last time i checked the Nacional pantheon building had a gift from Hitler to trujilllo on tge second floor overlooking the heroes

Which is worse, the guys that kills your brother or you supporting the killing? Do you get that?

 

[airgordo]

Hitler was actually quite a celebrity, his books were widely read. Of course, that was before people found out what he was up to, then everything changed.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people are completely unaware that Duvalier killed more people than Trujillo during his entire regime. And Duvalier's victims were practically all Haitians. Estimates go as high as 60K for Duvalier, if my memory doesn't fails me.

The million dollar question arises: Why does in this day and age Duvalier not receive as much attention as Trujillo does?

Are people afraid of saying that no other type of human being kills more Haitians than Haitians? That most Haitians killed by any government regime were killed within the borders of Haiti itself? This difference is not by a small margin, yet not many people know and much less even care to know.

Very easy question to answer, it pays big money to be a profesional DR basher, people are genarally stupid enough to buy the argument of the evil.dominican because they feel sorry for the haitians, it must be somebody else's fault!!!! The proof of this is also very easy to see, why all forereigners just ask for the haitians killed In el corte but care nothing about the tens of tjousands of Dominicana that were killed In that regime? The blood from Dominicans seems to be sub human for those people...

 

[airgordo]

Actually, there were about 20,000 Jewish refugees in Shanghai. They weren't exactly "welcomed," and by the end of the war, there was tremendous pressure from both Germany and Japan to expel them, and some of them came to the DR.

So the DR's claim to be the only country to offer sanctuary is not technically true. However, the "welcoming" part is by and large true. One of Trujillo's miscalculations was that Jewish men would marry Dominican women on a large scale and "lighten and brighten" the local population. While there were some men who did---because Trujillo only permitted married couples and single men (no single women)---most did not, and when the war was over and they could get visas to go to Canada, the US, etc., they mostly did.

Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland, while not publicly offering sanctuary, did permit thousands of Jewish refugees to cross their borders without incident, although Switzerland's enthusiasm for the effort ended after about 20,000 crossed the border and the country started turning refugees away.

Right, so trujilllo was making people whiter here according to you , LOL....would you like to explain the case of the japanese that got here on similar condicitions?