Rocky's Aqua End of the Line

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cobraboy

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These are solely operational expenditures, and more often than not, most musical entertainment has their own respective group of loyal followers who will do their own fair share of purchasing product.
That is how I hired bands: "How many of your fans will come to watch your performance." I paid one band a LOT because they sold $4000 in beer and liquor per night, SRO to the occupancy limit (and often beyond.)

Businesses don't exist to support the arts as an act of charity.
 

bigbird

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These are solely operational expenditures, and more often than not, most musical entertainment has their own respective group of loyal followers who will do their own fair share of purchasing product.

That is how I hired bands: "How many of your fans will come to watch your performance." I paid one band a LOT because they sold $4000 in beer and liquor per night, SRO to the occupancy limit (and often beyond.)

Businesses don't exist to support the arts as an act of charity.

I am listening but still find it hard to believe there are enough loyal supporters of any band on the north coast to cover the tab to hire them for the night. I don't do the north coast cuz just ain't my cup of tea so difficult for me to believe this. Now I can see maybe if the bar is hiring a band from out of town but the same local band week after week?
 

drstock

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Cabarete
hahaha

Now that's really funny !!!

it's just the same as you ---
not being able to ignore a post

hahaha

I continue to find this thread (including your posts) interesting, hence I keep reading. It seems I am not the only one, as it is currently number one most popular on the site.

hahaha
 

bigbird

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I continue to find this thread (including your posts) interesting, hence I keep reading. It seems I am not the only one, as it is currently number one most popular on the site.

hahaha

LOL, probably has a lot to do with the current conversation having absolutely nothing to do with the original topic. :)
 

Caonabo

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Doesn't really answer my question. You trying to tell me those small bands on the north coast have enough followers that will show up at the bar each night they play and buy enough food and booze to cover the cost of hiring them. I don't think so........

No, this is not what I am trying to tell you. As was explained on earlier postings, this establishment had made a name for itself in regards to it's US of A football Super Bowl parties. Did they break even on those events, or profit on those nights? I do not know, but my assumption would be probably not. They most likely took a small hit, for that one particular evening. A big hit is just a poor business module and can not sustain itself. But what it did do, was help them in promoting their name, as it has obviously worked because there are still several posters bringing up the topic of the Super Bowl. It keeps the name of the establishment in people's minds. The same is true for musical entertainment. You have to spend money to make money.
 

bigbird

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No, this is not what I am trying to tell you. As was explained on earlier postings, this establishment had made a name for itself in regards to it's US of A football Super Bowl parties. Did they break even on those events, or profit on those nights? I do not know, but my assumption would be probably not. They most likely took a small hit, for that one particular evening. A big hit is just a poor business module and can not sustain itself. But what it did do, was help them in promoting their name, as it has obviously worked because there are still several posters bringing up the topic of the Super Bowl. It keeps the name of the establishment in people's minds. The same is true for musical entertainment. You have to spend money to make money.

I am slowly beginning to understand...... Now my question is why pay more than what the bar, in this case Rocky, could afford to pay for some small time local band who probably just played at a bar down the strip the other night?
 

Caonabo

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I am listening but still find it hard to believe there are enough loyal supporters of any band on the north coast to cover the tab to hire them for the night. I don't do the north coast cuz just ain't my cup of tea so difficult for me to believe this. Now I can see maybe if the bar is hiring a band from out of town but the same local band week after week?

We are not speaking of famous all-time arena or concert hall groups in play, but live music in a venue does indeed draw. You are better off on scheduling for your slower nights of the week. Think Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.....because you should already be drawing clientele on Thursday, Friday and weekends. But, alas, all locales are not created equal. An establishment with live music will draw more customers than an establishment that does not.
 

bigbird

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That is how I hired bands: "How many of your fans will come to watch your performance." I paid one band a LOT because they sold $4000 in beer and liquor per night, SRO to the occupancy limit (and often beyond.)

Businesses don't exist to support the arts as an act of charity.

Now this i can understand. Bar owner is confidant in advance the band will bring in enough people to cover the cost of the band and for the bar owner to make a profit. This is a no brainer. Now to bring in some pint size local band to take a loss with the hopes of making it up in the future makes no sense to me.
 

frank12

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I know nothing about this stuff but isn't hiring a band expensive? How many beers does a bar have to sell to cover the cost of the band for the night?

Yes, it is expensive, and it's worth a review of the math involved. Before i start with the math, let's review the best example i can think of on Cabarete beach: Lazy Dog. It's a great bar with good people. They had nightly concerts for a long time. Now the math...

The average musician charges $100 - $150 for 2 - 3 hours of work.

A Presidente beer will cost you roughly (it varies from one bar to the next) $150 pesos (give or take).


The bar pays roughly $.60 pesos for a small Presidente beer at wholesale cost.


Therefore, the bar is only making roughly $.90 pesos (less then US $2 for a beer...even less if it's Happy Hour).

The bar would need to sell almost 5-cases of beer just to break even.

However, there's a lot more costs involved. Let's review some of these extra costs needed to cover expenses:

1. Employees: Typically, you can have 15-or more employees working during a concert--including the kitchen staff.

2. Rent: The rent can be crazy expensive on the beach--as opposed to across the road.

3. Electricity: Electricity is horrendously expensive here in the DR.

4. Staff insurance, salaries, etc.

5. Generators/diesel fuel (the electricity goes out daily & consistently) Diesel fuel is expensive.

6. Septic tank get filled the more people you have.

...and honestly, just a host of other expenses that i cannot be bothered to type right now on my phone.

Suffice to say, you would need to sell at least double the amount of beer in order to cover all costs. So, right off, before the concert even starts, you would need to sell 8 or more cases of beer just to break even on most of the concert costs...and that's for only a 2 or 3-hour show, typically done at Happy Hour at many places (drinks are even cheaper), and typically, musicians get to drink and eat for free---and that can run up costs as well. Think the Blues Brothers here.

I've seen musicians demand a lot of money, and free drinks & food as well, or they threaten to badmouth you! It's really a crazy situation that sometimes, but not always, can get out of hand to the point of absurdity.

By all accounts, Lazy Dog should have been the richest bar on the beach---especially given that they had concerts almost on a daily basis during their Happy Hour.

Unfortunately, you are catering to the lowest common denominator in many cases where the people most attracted to your place is the Happy Hour crowd...a crowd that refuses to pay more then $100 pesos for a beer (remember, wholesale cost is >.59 to .60 pesos). More than this, as soon as the free concert is over, guess what? They get up and leave!

Of course, i'm generalizing somewhat here, because, not all people are coming for the free concert or Happy Hour prices. Some people don't care what a beer costs. They don't care what a drink costs. They drink Grey Goose or Patron, and all they care about is do you have enough of supply of it!

Some people go to a place because they like it. A $.30 peso difference in cost of a beer or drink never crosses their mind. Not all people are on a tight budget or cheap. Some people have a lot more disposable income then others. The difference in wealth and spending power can be massive between one person to the next. And that's the great thing about a tourist spot...one person next to you can be debating about ordering a beer at $120 pesos, while the next person is debating whether or not to buy a second Porsche 911. You get people from all walks of life in a tourist spot. That's what's so great about the North Coast...you have people from all walks of life, education, income levels, and culture.

It's a good place. It's beautiful.
 
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bigbird

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We are not speaking of famous all-time arena or concert hall groups in play, but live music in a venue does indeed draw. You are better off on scheduling for your slower nights of the week. Think Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.....because you should already be drawing clientele on Thursday, Friday and weekends. But, alas, all locales are not created equal. An establishment with live music will draw more customers than an establishment that does not.

Yes, and if it was that simple every bar in Cabarette would be having live music....................
 

Caonabo

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I am slowly beginning to understand...... Now my question is why pay more than what the bar, in this case Rocky, could afford to pay for some small time local band who probably just played at a bar down the strip the other night?

Well if this is the case, not being able to at least stay on par with your business competition, is a whole other bag of messy mess. It all goes back to poor management from the top on down. As mentioned earlier, absentee owners are rarely successful, and it is incumbent upon managers to be able to diagnose and report business trends....on a DAILY basis. Not just the positive, but more essential or vital to the business....the negative in play as well.
 

windeguy

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I know nothing about this stuff but isn't hiring a band expensive? How many beers does a bar have to sell to cover the cost of the band for the night?

These are solely operational expenditures, and more often than not, most musical entertainment has their own respective group of loyal followers who will do their own fair share of purchasing product.

Doesn't really answer my question. You trying to tell me those small bands on the north coast have enough followers that will show up at the bar each night they play and buy enough food and booze to cover the cost of hiring them. I don't think so........

If the band or solo musician does not bring in enough people to more than cover the expenses of paying them, then they will not be asked back. Every musician and every club owner understands this.

Now, back in the 1970's I was making $50 minimum to play gigs in a 4 piece band that helped pay for gas money and buying new gear with some spending money left over. Usually it was about $100 US and a bit more for weddings. Kids were bagging groceries for $1.60 an hour and I was getting $200 to $300 a week for working nights and sitting on the beach at the lake during the day.

Today in Cabarete and Sosua, that amount is often not more than it was back in the 1970's while adjusted for inflation, it is not even close to what I was getting then. In the US, playing music unless on a major tour isn't going to pay all your bills.

I play mainly for enjoyment. It is a hobby for me, but I will not play for free. As another poster pointed out, what was offered at the location in this thread was way less than the minimum I played for in the '70s and adjusted for inflation it was not even worth considering. One could not rent the equipment we use for the amount we play for but it is still a lot higher than was offered at the location in question on this thread. And we would not have had over 35 gigs between January and April if it did not make the bar or restaurant money.


Think of this in upstate NY at Sacandaga Lake instead of Northern Michigan:

[video=youtube;Ia0IfchQWoQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia0IfchQWoQ[/video]
 
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bigbird

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If the band or solo musician does not bring in enough people to more than cover the expenses of paying them, then they will not be asked back. Every musician and every club owner understands this...............

Now this I can easily understand. At the same time I am sure there are plenty of other variables that come into play where a bar is not going to hire a band 7 nights a week. Now the bar in question refused to pay what you feel is the going rate I can't speak on because I don't know his reason.

My question, in a tourist town how many "followers" can a band really have? I am sure it ain't like The Joe Blow Band is playing at Rocky's on the 18th so let's grab a flight and fly down to hear them.
 

windeguy

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Yes, and if it was that simple every bar in Cabarette would be having live music....................

Of course it is not that simple. If every place had live music in Cabarete, it would not work well because there are not enough tourists to fill every bar. As it is, the ones with live music that "works" are the ones that have a chance to draw more people and make more money. The ones that do have live music won't have it if it does not work for them. Chez Arsensios, El Choco Restaurant, The CheckPoint, The Beer Garden, LAX, The Lazy Dog, Kahunas, the former street parties in Sosua, Sosua Ocean Village restaurant and all the other places I have played with The DRopouts previously or Island Breeze now are not charities.
 

cobraboy

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Yes, it is expensive, and it's worth a review of the math involved. Before i start with the math, let's review the best example i can think of on Cabarete beach: Lazy Dog. It's a great bar with good people. They had nightly concerts for a long time. Now the math...

The average musician charges $100 - $150 for 2 - 3 hours of work.

A Presidente beer will cost you roughly (it varies from one bar to the next) $150 pesos (give or take).


The bar pays roughly $.60 pesos for a small Presidente beer at wholesale cost.


Therefore, the bar is only making roughly $.90 pesos (less then US $2 for a beer...even less if it's Happy Hour).

The bar would need to sell almost 5-cases of beer just to break even.
The band and the drinks are direct costs.

frank said:
However, there's a lot more costs involved. Let's review some of these extra costs needed to cover expenses:

1. Employees: Typically, you can have 15-or more employees working during a concert--including the kitchen staff.

2. Rent: The rent can be crazy expensive on the beach--as opposed to across the road.

3. Electricity: Electricity is horrendously expensive here in the DR.

4. Staff insurance, salaries, etc.

5. Generators/diesel fuel (the electricity goes out daily & consistently) Diesel fuel is expensive.

6. Septic tank get filled the more people you have.

...and honestly, just a host of other expenses that i cannot be bothered to type right now on my phone.
Rent, electricity (to an extent) diesel and septic are fixed costs MOL. Staff are variable costs, mainly if you have to add staff for music...

Unless the proprietor is a charity or as Coanabo says is using a live band for marleting, the band needs to be fully paid out of INCREMENTAL revenues.

A $100-150 band is incredibly cheap. Must be "Dominican Pricing." My cheapest band was $400 for a 3 or 4-hour gig (if a 3-6 member band), $100 for a guy on a stool at a 2-hour Happy Hour.

My best band was a group who just wanted 20% of the take while playing, including door charge (usually $5; door charges keep the riff-raff, cheapo 1-beer-all-night nursers away). So if they started at 9pm, we'd zero the registers and they got 20% of the register gross tally at bar closing, 2am...which is when they and their fans would leave.

Win-Win for all concerned. I got incremental profit out the wazoo, and the band made great coin.
 

Caonabo

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Now this I can easily understand. At the same time I am sure there are plenty of other variables that come into play where a bar is not going to hire a band 7 nights a week. Now the bar in question refused to pay what you feel is the going rate I can't speak on because I don't know his reason.

My question, in a tourist town how many "followers" can a band really have? I am sure it ain't like The Joe Blow Band is playing at Rocky's on the 18th so let's grab a flight and fly down to hear them.

If it is a band who has a huge assortment of "cover music" that they play, you would be surprised. You could see the same band several nights per week, and not hear one song repeated. I am sure windeguy can attest to this. Happy patrons equate to sales.
 

windeguy

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I know nothing about this stuff but isn't hiring a band expensive? How many beers does a bar have to sell to cover the cost of the band for the night?

These are solely operational expenditures, and more often than not, most musical entertainment has their own respective group of loyal followers who will do their own fair share of purchasing product.

Doesn't really answer my question. You trying to tell me those small bands on the north coast have enough followers that will show up at the bar each night they play and buy enough food and booze to cover the cost of hiring them. I don't think so........

Now this I can easily understand. At the same time I am sure there are plenty of other variables that come into play where a bar is not going to hire a band 7 nights a week. Now the bar in question refused to pay what you feel is the going rate I can't speak on because I don't know his reason.

My question, in a tourist town how many "followers" can a band really have? I am sure it ain't like The Joe Blow Band is playing at Rocky's on the 18th so let's grab a flight and fly down to hear them.

When Dick Lupino and Island Breeze plays at a place like El Choco or Chez Arsenios during the winter there were no seats available. The one time we played at The Beer Garden in Sosua it was standing room only.
 

Caonabo

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Now this I can easily understand. At the same time I am sure there are plenty of other variables that come into play where a bar is not going to hire a band 7 nights a week. Now the bar in question refused to pay what you feel is the going rate I can't speak on because I don't know his reason.

My question, in a tourist town how many "followers" can a band really have? I am sure it ain't like The Joe Blow Band is playing at Rocky's on the 18th so let's grab a flight and fly down to hear them.

My question directed towards you is, do you happen to frequent locations which offer live musical entertainment?
 
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