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West Indian?
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Thank you very much. I thought I was seeing things, then I had to shake my head and laugh. Like I said, too busy keeping it irie to give a d***
Princessa~
Salsassin, Caribbaprincessa hit the nail. It is more of a " cultural" thing than geographical.
Nals also provided excellent explanations. So nope, Quisqueyans as well as Cubans and Boricuas wouldn't call themselves West Indians. You might find to or three that would say ti, ( maybe some Cocolo from San Pedro), but otherwise, nope.
West Indian=Anglophone Caribbean, basically.
Wilkipedia, blah blah blah can have maps saying " West Indies", but duh ! It is a map in English Language, what can you expect? A map in Spanish, wouldn't say " las indias" , it would say " las antillas".
So in a geopgraphical context, everybody would be " antillanos", and that can be sliced into " hispano-antillanos, anglo-antillanos, etc.
anglo-antillano=cocolo, for the most part. They have a culture influenced by the United Kingdom. So much that they even have Queen Elizabeth II as the head of state !
Jamaica and other islands that got independence in the 60's and 70's are part of the British Commonwealth. Elizabeth is the " Queen of Jamaica". That and cricket, rugby, and other stuff is what is considered " West Indian". Not Quisqueyans. We have a different history, we've got independece waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before them.
People are always trying to put the DR (and even Haiti) in the same boat the rest of the Caribbean finds itself in.Salsassin, Caribbaprincessa hit the nail. It is more of a " cultural" thing than geographical.
Nals also provided excellent explanations. So nope, Quisqueyans as well as Cubans and Boricuas wouldn't call themselves West Indians. You might find to or three that would say ti, ( maybe some Cocolo from San Pedro), but otherwise, nope.
West Indian=Anglophone Caribbean, basically.
Wilkipedia, blah blah blah can have maps saying " West Indies", but duh ! It is a map in English Language, what can you expect? A map in Spanish, wouldn't say " las indias" , it would say " las antillas".
So in a geopgraphical context, everybody would be " antillanos", and that can be sliced into " hispano-antillanos, anglo-antillanos, etc.
anglo-antillano=cocolo, for the most part. They have a culture influenced by the United Kingdom. So much that they even have Queen Elizabeth II as the head of state !
Jamaica and other islands that got independence in the 60's and 70's are part of the British Commonwealth. Elizabeth is the " Queen of Jamaica". That and cricket, rugby, and other stuff is what is considered " West Indian". Not Quisqueyans. We have a different history, we've got independece waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before them.
The truth of the matter is that Hispaniola is plain different from the rest of the Caribbean. If we notice Haiti, it's a francophone country and yet, it's not considered part of the French West Indies. Similarly, the DR is not considered a west indian people.
The history of these two nations are so extremely unique that to categorize any of the two with any other nation in the region would be a grave mistake. Furthermore, the DR is incomparable to other nations of the region on the basis that it was for many years the only country in the hemisphere with a mulatto majority, causing for a very interesting interplay of power-relations and other aspects that creates a nation.
Despite that, whatever similarities the DR has is almost exclusively restricted to either Cuba or Puerto Rico as well as Haiti. That's pretty much it! Our connection to the english speaking Caribbean is restricted to the Cocolos precisely because they came from the English speaking Caribbean.
Haiti is even more unique, incomparable to no other nation on this hemisphere.
Hispaniola is simply different! The fact that the two nations that occupy the island can't be fully compared to any other nation in the region (including comparing the two nations that actually occupy the island) is a testament of the unique of the island as a whole and each respective nation that share this island as well.
-NALs
Unique yet similar in some aspects
Whether you consider the DR part of the West Indies or not, Dominicans share a fondness for women, rum, and music with West Indians. Oh, and the women just love to shop!!!! LOL!!!!! :laugh:
Whether you consider the DR part of the West Indies or not, Dominicans share a fondness for women, rum, and music with West Indians. Oh, and the women just love to shop!!!! LOL!!!!! :laugh:
I'm going to have to interject here..
All of the islands are unique, however, I beg to differ about people putting Hati in "the same boat the rest of the Caribbean finds itself in".
Haitians, regardless of sharing their island with DR and having a unique history, are still considered West Indian. Am I lying? 'Cause I KNOW they had the most "Big Trucks" on the Pkway this Labor day! In Fact, Haitians probably beat out Jamaicans (Not probably, they do) at the West Indian Day Parade and have had the most representation since WYCLEF said he was Haitian(and they stopped being embarrased (and again, I am not lying about that either)). Am I lying? No Sir/Ma'am. I live in Brooklyn, which has the largest Caribbean population in the States. The heart of Brooklyn is Flatbush, which also happens to be Little West Indies. Now, Church Ave, which connects with mainy aves, such as Flatbush,Utica, and Nostrand Ave is in the midst of it all. Please believe, Church Ave is now Bob Marley Blvd/Ave and Nostrand Ave is now Touissant L'ouverture Blvd. There is no mistaking that Haitians consider themselves to be West Indian regardless if they are in the Hispaniola region. My old church was near Flatbush and was pure West Indian(as most there are) and Haitians were the majority. Like I said, Jamaica is close to Cuba as well and they are pure West Indian.
BTW. There's too many of us to fit on one boat. :cheeky:
While we all share the West Indian culture, NO TWO ISLANDS ARE ALIKE. Bajans speak Baje and they usally sound like they singing,Trini's are bold and will tell you about yourself, Jamaicans will cut you. Respect! Patois..I can now understand, Guyanase (in South America and still we are one) make blood pudding and don't hesitate to schupps and say Gurl you schupid, Haitians will not hesitate to say Ayee -when you act foolish either and they have everybody shouting Sak Passe ma boolay (I wrote it as it sounds). Especially after the song came out. I mean, it was a mix of Trini , Indian and Hatian Rhythms. We stay united.That is why we say One Love. UNITY. Different islands, same vibe. Peace.
Princessa~
I see what you are saying from your overall message but....
All of the islands are unique, however, I beg to differ about people putting Hati in "the same boat the rest of the Caribbean finds itself in".
Haitians, regardless of sharing their island with DR and having a unique history, are still considered West Indian. Am I lying? 'Cause I KNOW they had the most "Big Trucks" on the Pkway this Labor day! In Fact, Haitians probably beat out Jamaicans (Not probably, they do) at the West Indian Day Parade and have had the most representation since WYCLEF said he was Haitian(and they stopped being embarrased (and again, I am not lying about that either)). Am I lying? No Sir/Ma'am. I live in Brooklyn, which has the largest Caribbean population in the States. The heart of Brooklyn is Flatbush, which also happens to be Little West Indies. Now, Church Ave, which connects with mainy aves, such as Flatbush,Utica, and Nostrand Ave is in the midst of it all. Please believe, Church Ave is now Bob Marley Blvd/Ave and Nostrand Ave is now Touissant L'ouverture Blvd. There is no mistaking that Haitians consider themselves to be West Indian regardless if they are in the Hispaniola region. My old church was near Flatbush and was pure West Indian(as most there are) and Haitians were the majority. Like I said, Jamaica is close to Cuba as well and they are pure West Indian.
BTW. There's too many of us to fit on one boat. :cheeky:
While we all share the West Indian culture, NO TWO ISLANDS ARE ALIKE. Bajans speak Baje and they usally sound like they singing,Trini's are bold and will tell you about yourself, Jamaicans will cut you. Respect! Patois..I can now understand, Guyanase (in South America and still we are one) make blood pudding and don't hesitate to schupps and say Gurl you schupid, Haitians will not hesitate to say Ayee -when you act foolish either and they have everybody shouting Sak Passe ma boolay (I wrote it as it sounds). Especially after the song came out. I mean, it was a mix of Trini , Indian and Hatian Rhythms. We stay united.That is why we say One Love. UNITY. Different islands, same vibe. Peace.
Princessa~
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Nals, Haiti is not even a Francophone country. 90% of the population don't speak it or understand it. I've seen many Haitians that claim that they know it, but they don't. French exist only in written form for the most part.
As to princesa saying tha Haitians are " West Indians", that I don't know, because I'm not from Brooklyn and I haven't asked any Haitians that, :laugh:
I presume is because they got influenced by their neighhors ( in brooklyn) or Haiti is unique in the Hemisphere that they wanted to be " part of a group".
Quisqueyans have become part of the " Latino group". Every nationality will try to get into a " group".
The fact is Anglo West Indies have their own parades because of language affiliation more than anything. Doesn't change that all the cultures are West Indian/Antillian.
Is it though? Or just different use of terminology? Because Francophone West Indians do not call themselves West Indians either, yet they are considered West Indian. They call themselves Antillen.
So do Quisqueyans consider themselves Antillanos then. I know Cubans do.
So I guess the dutch, french and spanish are SOL. Yet they go to the US and call themselves .... West Indian cause here they speak English.
Actually old maps called all of Latin America "las indias occidentales" Later only for the islands. In fact the Viceroyalties of Spain were: New Spain, Peru,Granada, and Indias Orientales. But the original term used for Nueva Espa?a was Virreinato de las Indias Occidentales and was the title of all those who lived in those territories.
By your argument wouldn't antillanos only apply to Spanish speakers?
Let's flip it.
So nope, Trinidadians as well Jamaicans and Vincies wouldn't call themselves Antillanos.
Antillano=Hispanic Caribbean, basically.
Basically, what you are saying is that a dog in Latin America is not a dog because it is a perro. Antilles and West Indies are synonymous. In English people don't use Antillian that much in Spanish and French most people don't use Indio Occidental that much. But Antillano is still synonymous with West Indian.
If West Indian only refered to English speaking countries and it depended on the Queen and England and all that why do we say French West Indies, Dutch West Indies, etc? Dominicans may consider themselves closer to the Hispanic diaspora, but does tha invalidate their participation in the Caribbean culture? Did they live in such a vacuum?
And that is my point all ilands have their unique culture. But do Dominicans consider themselves Antillanos or outside of it.
Nobody is disagreeing with anything you are saying, but I think if somebody told you their shirt was black, you would say, "no it isn't, it is an absense of colour".
hmm
You ever notice that the people themselves(all Caribbean people) never bother asking these questions? They are, whatever they say they are....
Yet, people who [aren't] are always tryiing to tell them different....
Princessa~
You ever notice that the people themselves(all Caribbean people) never bother asking these questions? They are, whatever they say they are....
Yet, people who [aren't] are always tryiing to tell them different....
Princessa~
If you are from a caribbean country. Pr, haiti ,Dr cuba ,jamaica ,martinique etc....you are WEST INDIAN. You are CARIBBEAN .Does it mean you have indian in you? not neceserally.If I say Iam from OKLAHOMA the sooner state .Iam I a sooner ? I just happen to live there and that is the term used
Let's get this straight, All of the Caribbean islands are considered West Indies(English, Spanish & Dutch) even Bermuda is sometimes included. Culturally, the term "West Indian" is labeled to the English speaking islands of the Caribbean. The Caribbean is huge and touches many islands that belong to Venezuela, Costa Rica and Belize, just to name a few. You can't just lump every one in a "West Indian Bowl".
Ricardo you raise an excellent point. But, why can't we lump caribe?os together but accept lumping all hispanics under the "latino" umbrella even Brazilians which are not hispanic?
West Indians as many have stated here are all of the caribbean ilsands. We have Dutch W. Indies, French W. Indies, Spanish W. Indies etc etc. Each being very unique and all of them sharing one thing in common. All of the islands were colonized at one point and many of the habitants island hop for economic reasons.
Due to many factors some caribbean countries they prefer not to consider themselves West Indian and may view it as a negative connotation as many Argentineans when they are lumped into "latino". We Haitians consider ourselves part of the w. indian diaspora and share many things in common with our english, dutch, spanish neighbors. In french the correct label would be "antillais(e)", spanish "antillano" and english "west indian". It is more of a conglamoration of three continents melting into one pot. As someone mentioned b4..Instead of taking it the wrong way when someone ask if you are from X country just correct them and understand why someone might assume you are from a particular country.
West Indians as many have stated here are all of the caribbean ilsands. We have Dutch W. Indies, French W. Indies, Spanish W. Indies etc etc. Each being very unique and all of them sharing one thing in common. All of the islands were colonized at one point and many of the habitants island hop for economic reasons.
Due to many factors some caribbean countries they prefer not to consider themselves West Indian and may view it as a negative connotation as many Argentineans when they are lumped into "latino". We Haitians consider ourselves part of the w. indian diaspora and share many things in common with our english, dutch, spanish neighbors. In french the correct label would be "antillais(e)", spanish "antillano" and english "west indian". It is more of a conglamoration of three continents melting into one pot. As someone mentioned b4..Instead of taking it the wrong way when someone ask if you are from X country just correct them and understand why someone might assume you are from a particular country.
You raised a valid point, that being called a "West Indian" to some people is considered a negative connotation as you pointed out with Argentineans and perhaps Mexicans.
It's kind of sad that some islands take more offense to Columbus's ignorance than others. He is pretty much dead and gone. You know you are not in India. Most educated people or those with common sense or knowledge of the Caribbean knows that he was wrong. Why is the name still there? Because it is, and it isn't going anywhere. People have taken it, given it a whole new meaning and culture and embraced it. West Indians are persons who have commmon cultural similarities. West Indies/Caribbean are all the islands in that area. If people want to assume your Indian because you are from the West Indies...who is looking more foolish?
West Indian= commonly shared culture
West Indies/Caribbean=Location with a miing pot of cultures
Princessa~
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