Commonwealth of Haiti territory of the USA

[Vacara]

different races have sorrily their fronts everywhere on the globe, that is not different here on the Island.
it is foreigners who see themselves more intelligent or capable of things than locals,
it is Dominicans who see themselves as "better" than Haitians,
it is also fact within the country, within Dominican communities,
i.e. when a white dominican looks down on a brown dominican,
when a brown dominican looks down on a black dominican.

i do not say that every white/brown/black is looking down on ....,
but as a matter of fact by own 14 years of observations and living in dominican communities with dominican families, there are many who do so, and that's on all social levels present, not just that a white mid class man would look down on a darker lower class man.
even in rural areas such 'classifying' is part of daily life/behavior/talks/actions.

it is sorrily part of Human nature,
not tyupical dominican, american, german, spanish or such.
it is typical Human Race.

Mike

Mike I agree with you but let add something, racism in DR is so minimal is almost nonexistent, Dominicans are illiterate race wide, social mobility in our country is not determined by your skin color but by your economic status.

In Haiti on the other side racism is their bread and butter, is the engine of their social life, is the sole reason why nobody who's reading this post will live long enough to see any significant change in the living standard of Haitians or even witness that nation leaving its status as a pariah state.

Just to set the record straight I'm not a racist, been in Haiti 3 times and still got deeply engraved in my memory images so painfully vivid I'll take them with me to the grave, but I'm very realistic too.

 

[Vacara]

Cuba is actually wealthier than the DR ($9,500 vs. $8,100 respectively),a difference of only $1,400. Puerto Rico, having the same IQ level of the DR, is much wealthier than both at c. $17,000.

Yet, Haiti lags the DR by $6,800, lags Cuba by $8,200, and Puerto Rico by $15,700.

Why the difference?

PR is under direct US influence and rule, a country with an average IQ of 98 and a per capita income surpassing $40,000.

Cuba is under a comunist/socialist dictatorship that has, as of late, been able to prop its economy thanks to generous help from Venezuela.

Dom. Rep. is under capitalism, politically independent, and thus; its increasing development level and relatively high economic growth rates (on a long run basis) reflects its actual capability.

The question should not be between Cuba and the DR, but rather between Haiti and Jamaica.

Supposedly, both share an IQ of 72; yet Jamaica is poorer than the DR by a mere $700 but surpasses Haiti by $6,100.

Of course, Jamaica is a very new country. It was only in the 1960s that it separated itself from what was left of the British Empire; and I believe it still belongs to the Commonwealth. Haiti has been 'free' for over 200 years of continuous decline. Haiti also lacks a real democratic values, a real capitalist system, and overall stability; unlike Jamaica.

So obviously IQ is not the end all be all, there are other factors that play into the equation. But, that still doesn't eliminate the possibility that IQ can explain certain deviations, once all other factors are equalized.

-NALs

Nice Nals, what an orgy of numbers!!

 

[Vacara]

so most reach the US, even that Cuba is so much closer and offer it all??
even with the great US coast guard outtha chasing them down?
right,
the very most biggest haitian population out of haiti is there.

PUERTO RICO WEALTHIER THAN WHAT????
you are kidding me.
go back to the polls,
let people choose #1 or #2 or #3 or make even more complicated brainstorming stuff like offering a additional #4!!!

in case of wealthinest or educational behavior PR is many levels below the DR or Cuba, and the caribbean helds a good dozen of other destins much over PR.
where ever they go they are laughed at,
even that they are US supported since decades,
and the average mentioned 98 IQ for the 'brother's mainland' is something i want to see proofed by an outside source, that's just US intern check results.
people go the most easiest way under danger,
and that's since the last decades for haitians clearly the land way to walk over to the DR instead of hitting the waterroad to Cuba(%$#%^# rough Sea conditions on that side).
once they are on dominican soil the ones who wanna leave the Isle do that by waterway from the DR eastern coastline toward Puerto Rico, compared to the west of the Isle perfect paradise Sea conditions for a run, once there surroundings on the same educational/IQ level present and then they do the run towards NYC to meet the brothers there like the dominican boat people on this side of the Isle.
heck,
there are around 4 million dominicans over there,
Dominican York, here we come!
Mike

If anybody would use about Haitians the same terms Mike uses against Ricans bunch of people here would be screaming bloody hell. Just a though.

 

[Vacara]

Of course there is and anyone who denies it is not being honest.
I have too many stories to share .
I have had to question my Dominican friends who claim to be Catholic and deeply religious how they could utter some of the hateful and totally uncalled for things, they so casually say about Haitians. Silence was the answer.

Racism in DR on a scale of 1 to 10; 10 being the worst would be "1".

 

[? bient?t]

Nice Nals, what an orgy of numbers!!

Yeah, NALs likes numbers (and Wikis), but for a Bernoulli type like yourself, with INTEC's "derivada" and such, these numbers are nothing, right?

 

[? bient?t]

Mike I agree with you but let add something, racism in DR is so minimal is almost nonexistent, Dominicans are illiterate race wide, social mobility in our country is not determined by your skin color but by your economic status.

In Haiti on the other side racism is their bread and butter, is the engine of their social life, is the sole reason why nobody who's reading this post will live long enough to see any significant change in the living standard of Haitians or even witness that nation leaving its status as a pariah state.

Just to set the record straight I'm not a racist, been in Haiti 3 times and still got deeply engraved in my memory images so painfully vivid I'll take them with me to the grave, but I'm very realistic too.

Folks, picture Vacara, with arms akimbo: "I'm not a racist... been to Haiti 3 times," then looks around, grinning ? la Frank Caliendo's Bush and an Aasif Mandvi 'yes' shake, as if saying, "Hey, ya'll, I just debunked you all. Heh heh heh!"

Is this the Dominican version of "some of my best friends are black"?

 

[Vacara]

Folks, picture Vacara, with arms akimbo: "I'm not a racist... been to Haiti 3 times," then looks around, grinning ? la Frank Caliendo's Bush and an Aasif Mandvi 'yes' shake, as if saying, "Hey, ya'll, I just debunked you all. Heh heh heh!"

Is this the Dominican version of "some of my best friends are black"?

Bientot; write something meaningful then get back to me, enough with the red herring. If you are going to waste bandwidth on a "substance less" post at least do it in Shakespearean English like Catcher.

 

[El_Uruguayo]

I've never stated that Haitians lacked an inate intelligence level. To make such claim would be to succumb to the nation of racial superiority, of which I don't believe in. I simply stated that the IQ registered there is currently inferior to almost every other country in this hemisphere and the world.

That could be the result of many things; pervasive malnutrition, the fact that over half of the population is in abject poverty, so on and so forth. A change in policy and attention towards them will most likely increase their IQ level, but that doesn't erase what has been noted already.

-NALs

I'm glad you cleared that up, because I think it was being understood that way. Anyhow, IQ for countries, it's just another index, and can carry some sort of correlation, but shouldn't be read into too much. I was going to say something else, but lost track of where this convo was going.

btw did I see a triple or quadruple post?

 

[Thandie]

racism in DR is so minimal is almost nonexistent, Dominicans are illiterate race wide,

yes skin colour means nothing in the DR and that is why the majority of
models in high profile ad campaigns in the DR are mostly very light skinned or white looking, even though the typical Dominican and 'target market' does not look that way. Strange isnt it?

 

[Vacara]

Yeah, NALs likes numbers (and Wikis), but for a Bernoulli type like yourself, with INTEC's "derivada" and such, these numbers are nothing, right?

I like Nals posts but to my chagrin I have to admit he doesn't have the talent to write elegant, carefully crafted posts in English that rivals the one we found in Cervante's Don Quijote, hollow and lacking all substance but carefully crafted like Catcher's.

Nor he has the uncanny ability of Pedro to disguise stupidities as "subtleties, which comes very handy when you are adverse to the mention of any historical fact or any stat that could give support to his assertions.

Nals's posts are solid, rock solid from top to bottom and he doesn't mind being attacked by using a language that although apolitically correct it is painfully true.

 

[Vacara]

yes skin colour means nothing in the DR and that is why the majority of
models in high profile ad campaigns in the DR are mostly very light skinned or white looking, even though the typical Dominican and 'target market' does not look that way. Strange isnt it?

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

 

[pedrochemical]

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

Depends what you call light skinned, I suppose.
That is entirely subjective it seems, as if I look into the street I see very few (none) Dominican 'white' people here in Zona Colonial.

Also, give me an example of 'stupidities disguised as subtleties'.
And get off my case - you post multiple times, sniping at me without commenting on the substance of my posts.
People are trying to have a debate here - not a competition.

The question was about Haiti, the US, sovereignty etc...

P.S. - where are all your respect points?
Never having been accused of being meretricious, I do not play to the crowd but people just keep hitting that button.

Hmmmm interesting...

 

[El_Uruguayo]

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

You colour blind? 89% would like to think their "light skinned" or white. I think the official breakdown, from the CIA is 73% mixed 16% white 11% black. That's just off the top of my head. Not that it means anything to me, I could care less if someone is green, brown, or purple. But the majority of dominicans are mulato, but the tendency is to deny any african roots. If someone has lighter skin, they are blanco. If someone has a bit darker skin, they are indio - but they are never part prieto - those are the hatians. 99% of women straighten their hair - why is this? It seems to me that only about 27% of the population doesnt really have any identity issues, the moreno knows he's moreno, the white guy knows he's white. The other 73% "mixed" consider themselves white. What is wrong with mixed? Look at Obama, he doesn't have a problem with it. Why should there be a problem with it? For some reason though, it's an important issue, instead of being proud of the mix, they deny it, its a deeply ingrained issue - nobody wants "pelo malo" or "piel malo".

 

[MikeFisher]

yes skin colour means nothing in the DR and that is why the majority of
models in high profile ad campaigns in the DR are mostly very light skinned or white looking, even though the typical Dominican and 'target market' does not look that way. Strange isnt it?

yeap,
and even in the campaigns for presidential elections the candidates appear on the AD fotos 5 times 'lighter/whiter' than they are in reality.
a good man for the job shouldn't need to care about his skin.
but the market to taget is a market which 'wishes' to be exactly like shown on such AD's/commercials aso, and what we wish to be is usually what we not are.

You colour blind? 89% would like to think their "light skinned" or white. I think the official breakdown, from the CIA is 73% mixed 16% white 11% black. That's just off the top of my head. Not that it means anything to me, I could care less if someone is green, brown, or purple. But the majority of dominicans are mulato, but the tendency is to deny any african roots. If someone has lighter skin, they are blanco. If someone has a bit darker skin, they are indio - but they are never part prieto - those are the hatians. 99% of women straighten their hair - why is this? It seems to me that only about 27% of the population doesnt really have any identity issues, the moreno knows he's moreno, the white guy knows he's white. The other 73% "mixed" consider themselves white. What is wrong with mixed? Look at Obama, he doesn't have a problem with it. Why should there be a problem with it? For some reason though, it's an important issue, instead of being proud of the mix, they deny it, its a deeply ingrained issue - nobody wants "pelo malo" or "piel malo".

without stats and just sweeping the country and thinking about the people known/seen on daily bases i would say 3/4'ers are the mix.
real white dominicans are a minority in the country.
but just my opinion/observations.
i don't know how statistics define
white
mix
brown
black
aso.
Mike

 

[? bient?t]

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

89% light-skinned or white? Si, te lo vo? cre?, pero no te acotumbre. (How do you like my Dominican Spanish?)

I bet you're one of those whose c?dula says 'Indio' for skin color, when in fact you're darker than my black FSM baseball cap.

You, like NALs, should ask INTEC for a refund.

 

[? bient?t]

Bientot; write something meaningful then get back to me, enough with the red herring. If you are going to waste bandwidth on a "substance less" post at least do it in Shakespearean English like Catcher.

First of all, I like you: you don't know when to STFU.

Secondly, you know what they say to folks who fondly reminisce about Woodstock and/or Burning Man? "If you remember, you weren't there."

Well, I can say something similar to you: If you think catcher, whom I admire, posts in "Shakespearean English" here at DR1, then you haven't read Shakespeare. AND CliffsNotes don't count.

 

[Chip]

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

Is that you Mirador????

 

[Chip]

Care to elaborate?

I'm not saying that the majority of Dominicans are racist, but the there is a strong trend among the minority "white/whiter" elite here. As far as elaborating anymore, my English is straightforward and clear and none more is necessary.

 

[Thandie]

Maybe that has to do with the fact that the majority of Dominicans are light skinned or white, "89%" to be correct.

Ok, yes the Dominicans that I know who were delusional like you and thought they were 'light, bright and damned near white' and strongly/ignorantly denied having any black blood (as if it was an insult...one guy whose complexion is darker than mine and had kinky hair even got angry when I told him that he of course had African blood...his response "I am no African monkey"?) ALL experienced a rude awakening when they stepped off that small little island in the ocean and travelled to rest of the entire world. Reality check 101!

Those who returned to Spain, the white European motherland quickly learned they were far from white and are not accepted as such and are called negro amongst some other not so nice words (Dominicans are not that liked by the locals as I heard from many Spaniards in Malaga on a visit).

My Dominican friend now living in Canada with his light brown skin and light hazel eyes, quickly learned that those praised DR physical features did not garner him much praise and acceptance in the white community here, after he experienced racism like every other young black man of similar or darker skin colour. Experience racism because he is percieved to be black was a shock to him. Now he says in Canada, I am black.

My white girlfriend in New York who laughed at the Dominican guys she met at a club who freaked out when she called them black. She said that they looked black to her as they looked exactly like her other black American friends. She didnt understand what was the big deal...what their fuss was about.

From my travels around the DR, Jarabacoa seemed to have the most 'whitest' looking Dominicans or what I call 'ethnic white' compared to other areas.

But the real question is why does skin colour really matter?

 

[Thandie]

Is that you Mirador????

I thought his posts seemed familar, especially for a new poster. Its like I have read his style before. But I thought I was just confusing him with Nals and Pichardo. I still get those 2 mixed up all the time. lol