So not every Dominicans voice counts or is relevant, only the ones pre approved by you?
Oh dios!
What delusional self importance.
- Thread starter Eddy
- Start date
Commonwealth of Haiti territory of the USA
So not every Dominicans voice counts or is relevant, only the ones pre approved by you?
Oh dios!
What delusional self importance.
rewriting someones posting and quote such like it would've been written by the other person in a original posting???
darn, if we are talking about such we are talking about the lowest level.
Pedro,
know what ya mean,
but if a person wanna express his/her opinion on a theme it should be done by that person and on the thread where the theme is discussed.
i will sure not waste time to google a specific or every posters opinion to get a clue about his/her opinion on a theme.
it's written on a thread, i read it,
if not, it doesn't exist/count on the stuff.
Mike
darn, if we are talking about such we are talking about the lowest level.
Pedro,
know what ya mean,
but if a person wanna express his/her opinion on a theme it should be done by that person and on the thread where the theme is discussed.
i will sure not waste time to google a specific or every posters opinion to get a clue about his/her opinion on a theme.
it's written on a thread, i read it,
if not, it doesn't exist/count on the stuff.
Mike
No, no no. This is not dependent on what I approve, this is just the way things are.
And by the way, I bet you didn't know there are many Dominicans that have greater legitimacy than I do.
But, you need to keep the DR1 myth going, so OK, I'll make you happy by pretending I'm the end all be all in all of this.
-NALs :tired:
Careful what you ask for. I intend to down the road, it's bookmarked already.
I didn't ask you for an essay, just a few lines and it makes sense to do it here in the thread where we are having this discussion. What would not make any sense is me combing your blog without a hint where to find that.
Feel disappointed but thanks anyway. Here's a pic of me when I read your post.
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa213/No_Nrg/carey_gag_1.gif
Nals you are so predictable and it is obvious to everyone.
Deflect, avoid answering the question, make things up, twist the facts and accuse others of conspiracy theories and spreading myths...in hopes people will just get tired and give up debatting with you.
How old are you?
So you are not expressing an opinion - you are just a messenger of the immutable truth.
Like ones that live here??
You are only the most conspicuous by your ignorance and only narrowly outdone by Vacara's propensity to prove himself uninformed rather than let anybody guess.
Incidentally, the phrase you were looking for is,"Be all and end all".
If you have ever taken a politics course you will know what its meant by legitimacy, and hence understand what I've said.
That's how legitimacy works, if you don't like it; hey, there isn't much I can say to make you feel better.
Things are the way they are.
-NALs
You’re the one who goes off saying “the Dominicans I know said this, did that” given that you are NOT Dominican. Then, when a Dominican comes here and says something that challenges your deeply ingrained beliefs of what Dominicans think/do/are; your response is “you don’t speak for all Dominicans”, as if your Dominican “friends” for some reason do speak for all since what they say goes well with your beliefs.
You’re the one who goes off defending foreign intervention in Dominican affairs concerning this and, perhaps, other issues. Then once you realized you can’t continue to defend this stance, because it’s widely accepted that all independent peoples are free to solve their problems without foreign intervention; then you move on to asking where anyone here is saying that that should be done. The real question is why did you tried to defend foreign intervention before you gave up that stance?
And this is only some of the many things you have been doing in this and other discussions.
The case of the Ethiopians with their skin color issues, suddenly the one’s you know speak for all Ethiopians. It seemed that you meant to say that they were progressing and somehow Dominicans are not, despite the contrary being said by Ethiopians themselves from all backgrounds and, more importantly, the fact that the DR is changing in many aspects, race being one of them. That you fail to recognize that IS the big problem in this discussion.
In the other thread in the Living forum, suddenly you came out of the woodworks in support of what a Dominican woman that has been living in the US for God knows how long and said something that coincides with your beliefs about Dominicans. Suddenly, she seems to speak for all Dominicans, ExtremeDR went there with his/her personal experience as backup – given that he/she has been living in the DR for a quite a few years – and suddenly, you used the “did you know she’s Dominican” card (which is the same as saying "you don't speak for all Dominicans"), as if trying to make what she said to be more legitimate that what ExtremeDR said. Of course you will say such thing, ExtremeDR's comment don't really goes well with your deeply ingrained belief of Dominican society. God forbid ExtremeDR had been a non-Dominican, who knows what you would've said to minimize his/her input.
In another point in the discussion you tried to imply that Dominicans should identify as black, because you, despite your admixture identify as such. You went on about how Dominicans said you look Dominican and then talked about your color and features. Its funny how you never mentioned that Dominicans confused you with a Haitian (the supposedly only people considered black), of course not, Dominicans can tell a mixed individual from a black one from kilometers away. That's why they said you look Dominican, you most likely look mixed. Had you looked full fledge black, you would've been confused with Haitians. And please, don't come now to say that Dominicans did confused you with Haitians, because had that been true, you would had used that a long time ago since it would had supported your case.
Then it was the definition of impose, which is nothing of what you said it was. Of course, why would it be since the real definition doesn't works well with your agenda. (Dictionary: IMPOSE)
You have a very rigid point of view regarding the DR and Dominicans, and apparently you are much more inclined to support those who substantiate your beliefs and belittle those who do not.
Then you tried to pull a DR1 on me, which I usually let it go because its nothing more than people talking c-r-a-p about someone they never met; with the “your delusional self importance.” Typical tactics people who run out of arguments use, which is attacking the individual.
Thandie, if you’re running out of arguments, please don’t resort to fallacies.
Now, what I really want to know is this:
Can you please quote where I said this can’t be discussed?
-NALs
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NALS, I feel great, do not sweat it.
I feel great because I live in a beautiful country with my wonderful family.
Life is good here - come on over and enjoy it some time.
It sure beats Connecticut for beaches.
I especially like the exchange of ideas of which I am part here.
You just sound bitter.
Life is way too long to be bitter.
I recommend living it rather than talking about it.
It informs and legitimises one's opinions.
Happy days in the Caribbean!!
OK- I will take a few moments of your time to give my opinions of why I think that Haiti is in the shape that it is in today. Please note that these are only MY Opinions and NOT FACTS. Just my take on things. I am well read on the subject both in French and English...... but ... I do not pretend to say that this is the definitive explanation.
First- It was formed by former slaves, few of whom had the benefit of advanced education. Because these slaves came from different tribes, different areas of Africa, they brought little of a common culture with them (except bits of their religion and a shared memory of the horror of the passage). Their cultural identity became The First Black Republic.
Second -It was isolated and embargoed by the entire international community for years, was not granted recognition by the US,(which was a slave holding country) for instance for 50 years, It had NO help whatsoever from any foreign country, perhaps until the US occupation in 1915 which was perhaps a help perhaps not, who can tell.
It has certainly been the victim of the contempt of the global racism and has perhaps used this as an excuse not to take responsibility for its own defects and shortcomings.
Third - was forced to pay reparations for its indepedence, the only country on record which was forced to do so. Some say the last reparations were paid in 1947, others will say that the date is now- when the foreign debt is paid.
Fourth, it formed a constitution which included a ban on "white" people coming in as "masters" which precluded international immigration and investment Even today foreigners are only allowed to own one property, either a home or a business.
Fifth, it reproduced the slavery of its history, as the Creoles, who were born of the French and slaves who were themselves born free, considered themselves above the children of the slaves, and assumed positions of power and ownership. Today, for instance there are an estimated 300,000 children living in a form of child slavery called "restavek" which formed from poor people in the country sending their children to live in the homes of the more wealthy in the city. This is coupled with a sort of disconnect from the land - while over 60% of Haitians are still rural, the educated and elite are in the capital and cities. There is a unspoken contempt for the land, for agricultural work, which has never advanced, never industrialized, rather their education has been more based on the model which was left to them by France in the 18th century/ focused on the liberal arts, and philosophy.This racial/class divide was exacerbated by the fact that formal education was in French while the lingua franca is Kreyole. Not until Aristide were both Kreyole and Voudo (i.e. the 80%) officially recognized.
Sixth, it divided the land into small landholdings after the war of independence as a reward for the soldiers so that there were very few large land holders and many small subsistence farmers.
Seventh, it developed a system of a predatory state which fed off the labor of its people. There has always been a culture of corruption in government wherein those who had control of the state treasury had a license to steal it.
Eight, unlike Trujillo who invested in the infrastructure and repaid the foreign debt, Duvalier did not increase the road structure and increased the foreign debt
Nine, unlike Balaguer who introduced the gas stoves and subsidized the household gas, Haiti did not and so continues to burn charcoal
Ten, unlike the Dominican Republic, which includes its Diaspora in its political process and welcomes its participation, Haiti forbids dual citizenship and denies voting rights or the right to hold office for anyone who has taken foreign citizenship. As soon as someone leaves, they are completely excluded from the political life of their country.
Those are the first ten that come to the top of my mind. But i have been blogging about haiti for the last two years and there is much more information there on my blog.
I did not mean to be disrespectful to the Board. I did assume that Vacara's question was simply an effort to draw me into a debate about
"Why are Haitians so stupid whereas We Dominicans are So Smart"
which is a debate I find somewhat tiresome, best held on Dominican Today by adolescent males.
So apologies. No Disrespect intended.
First- It was formed by former slaves, few of whom had the benefit of advanced education. Because these slaves came from different tribes, different areas of Africa, they brought little of a common culture with them (except bits of their religion and a shared memory of the horror of the passage). Their cultural identity became The First Black Republic.
Second -It was isolated and embargoed by the entire international community for years, was not granted recognition by the US,(which was a slave holding country) for instance for 50 years, It had NO help whatsoever from any foreign country, perhaps until the US occupation in 1915 which was perhaps a help perhaps not, who can tell.
It has certainly been the victim of the contempt of the global racism and has perhaps used this as an excuse not to take responsibility for its own defects and shortcomings.
Third - was forced to pay reparations for its indepedence, the only country on record which was forced to do so. Some say the last reparations were paid in 1947, others will say that the date is now- when the foreign debt is paid.
Fourth, it formed a constitution which included a ban on "white" people coming in as "masters" which precluded international immigration and investment Even today foreigners are only allowed to own one property, either a home or a business.
Fifth, it reproduced the slavery of its history, as the Creoles, who were born of the French and slaves who were themselves born free, considered themselves above the children of the slaves, and assumed positions of power and ownership. Today, for instance there are an estimated 300,000 children living in a form of child slavery called "restavek" which formed from poor people in the country sending their children to live in the homes of the more wealthy in the city. This is coupled with a sort of disconnect from the land - while over 60% of Haitians are still rural, the educated and elite are in the capital and cities. There is a unspoken contempt for the land, for agricultural work, which has never advanced, never industrialized, rather their education has been more based on the model which was left to them by France in the 18th century/ focused on the liberal arts, and philosophy.This racial/class divide was exacerbated by the fact that formal education was in French while the lingua franca is Kreyole. Not until Aristide were both Kreyole and Voudo (i.e. the 80%) officially recognized.
Sixth, it divided the land into small landholdings after the war of independence as a reward for the soldiers so that there were very few large land holders and many small subsistence farmers.
Seventh, it developed a system of a predatory state which fed off the labor of its people. There has always been a culture of corruption in government wherein those who had control of the state treasury had a license to steal it.
Eight, unlike Trujillo who invested in the infrastructure and repaid the foreign debt, Duvalier did not increase the road structure and increased the foreign debt
Nine, unlike Balaguer who introduced the gas stoves and subsidized the household gas, Haiti did not and so continues to burn charcoal
Ten, unlike the Dominican Republic, which includes its Diaspora in its political process and welcomes its participation, Haiti forbids dual citizenship and denies voting rights or the right to hold office for anyone who has taken foreign citizenship. As soon as someone leaves, they are completely excluded from the political life of their country.
Those are the first ten that come to the top of my mind. But i have been blogging about haiti for the last two years and there is much more information there on my blog.
I did not mean to be disrespectful to the Board. I did assume that Vacara's question was simply an effort to draw me into a debate about
"Why are Haitians so stupid whereas We Dominicans are So Smart"
which is a debate I find somewhat tiresome, best held on Dominican Today by adolescent males.
So apologies. No Disrespect intended.
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Thought you might enjoy the interview from the Prime Minister of Haiti
Q&A: "The Elites Are Like a Huge Elephant Sitting on Haiti" - IPS ipsnews.net
Q&A: "The Elites Are Like a Huge Elephant Sitting on Haiti" - IPS ipsnews.net
I don't know where you got the idea that I would drag you into a low level -full of subtleties- argument but thxs anyway, you surpassed my expectations. Me and my friends were laughing when I was reading your post, take a look at the video.
http://www.oliverwillis.com/img/party1.gif
Spot on, Vacara, you're absolutely right - indeed ignorance isn't a point of view. Could you point specifically to where I was being ignorant please?
Here is your original post;
And maybe 'antihaitianismo' is functional in maintaining mental health? If people define it as a nationalistic issue rather than a race issue then they can avoid any chronic alienation by remaining largely indifferent to state negrophobia?
I never said you were ignorant Lambada, your post implies Dominicans use the term "Antihaitianism" to mask racial discrimination against Haitians as "nationalistic issue", but you don't present any evidence to support that claim while at the same time the use of "maybe, if, rather etc" indicates uncertainty about the issue. By doing that you are violating a rule of debate; you are "making ignorance a point of view" (not that you are an ignorant person)
I like your posts, I'm not picking up fights with you.
Nice article Mountainannie but since she left Haiti at a young age and studied abroad, doesn't it contradict point #10 in your list, about the diaspora not being able to participate politically and hold office in Haiti?.