- Thread starter Mr. Lu
- Start date
The New Constitution:
Believe it or not, there's some vocal opposition to what's going on.
Very encouraging in my opinion.
Social pressure might force Assembly to revise text - DiarioLibre.com
SANTO DOMINGO. In the face of the rejection that the so-called "counter-reformation" that was approved by the Revisory Assembly of the Constitution during the second reading has received, there is movement inside the Congress to find a "legal way down" that will allow them to revoke part of the last changes that did not go over well with the population.
All this includes, according to what was learned by Diario Libre, a possible modification of the internal regulations of the Assembly that allows for rethinking on the elimination of citizen's rights that had been approved during the first reading, such as the collective and diffuse rights, of which 10 were eliminated and the prohibition of free access to the nation's beaches by citizens.
Also, the Assembly rejected allowing a citizen to sue on unconstitutional grounds the regulations and judicial acts in conformity with the procedures established by the law , alleging that in order to exercise this right "the citizen should have a judicial and legitimately protected interest", among other changes.
The criticisms and announcements that the new Constitution would be the object of an unconstitutionality suit, once it was proclaimed, has apparently forces a large number of assembly members to rethink their positions, and they are consulting specialists and exploring the possibilities of once again review the text that was approved.
It was confirmed
The data was confirmed by the vice president of the Assembly, Julio Cesar Valentine, who said that in the middle of the session that the people fixate only on the negative, meaning that in the text that has been approved there are a lot of positives.
"The truth is we committed a mistake with the collective and diffuse rights, and I believe that we can explore the institutional possibility of carrying out some sort of revision, but in this Constitution a series of revolutionary aspects have been approved", said Valentin.
He urged his colleagues to defend the positive points of the reform and recognize the part that could be negative alleging that no Constitution in the world can be said to be intregally progressive or good, because there is no perfect text.
Also, protest planned in front of Congress clad in bathing suits...
Very encouraging in my opinion.
Social pressure might force Assembly to revise text - DiarioLibre.com
SANTO DOMINGO. In the face of the rejection that the so-called "counter-reformation" that was approved by the Revisory Assembly of the Constitution during the second reading has received, there is movement inside the Congress to find a "legal way down" that will allow them to revoke part of the last changes that did not go over well with the population.
All this includes, according to what was learned by Diario Libre, a possible modification of the internal regulations of the Assembly that allows for rethinking on the elimination of citizen's rights that had been approved during the first reading, such as the collective and diffuse rights, of which 10 were eliminated and the prohibition of free access to the nation's beaches by citizens.
Also, the Assembly rejected allowing a citizen to sue on unconstitutional grounds the regulations and judicial acts in conformity with the procedures established by the law , alleging that in order to exercise this right "the citizen should have a judicial and legitimately protected interest", among other changes.
The criticisms and announcements that the new Constitution would be the object of an unconstitutionality suit, once it was proclaimed, has apparently forces a large number of assembly members to rethink their positions, and they are consulting specialists and exploring the possibilities of once again review the text that was approved.
It was confirmed
The data was confirmed by the vice president of the Assembly, Julio Cesar Valentine, who said that in the middle of the session that the people fixate only on the negative, meaning that in the text that has been approved there are a lot of positives.
"The truth is we committed a mistake with the collective and diffuse rights, and I believe that we can explore the institutional possibility of carrying out some sort of revision, but in this Constitution a series of revolutionary aspects have been approved", said Valentin.
He urged his colleagues to defend the positive points of the reform and recognize the part that could be negative alleging that no Constitution in the world can be said to be intregally progressive or good, because there is no perfect text.
Also, protest planned in front of Congress clad in bathing suits...
From Clave Digital's poll.
Will you support the new constitution that is being formulated by the Revisory Assembly?
CLAVE digital versi?n m?vil
Will you support the new constitution that is being formulated by the Revisory Assembly?
CLAVE digital versi?n m?vil
Hi all. I received a DR1 Daily News Update regarding the constitutional revisions which said in part:
"The last straw may have been the passing of an article last week that puts private ownership of all beaches, rivers and lakes in the DR above universal public access..."
Does this mean that the new law would override the "60 meter" rule and that individuals who own properties which include a small beach would legally own the beach?
"The last straw may have been the passing of an article last week that puts private ownership of all beaches, rivers and lakes in the DR above universal public access..."
Does this mean that the new law would override the "60 meter" rule and that individuals who own properties which include a small beach would legally own the beach?
The comment about Pe?a G?mez is nonsense since the new regulations in the modified constitution applies from the day the constitution enters in effect. In fact, it very clearly states that everyone 'enjoying' Dominican citizenship prior to the constitution entering effect will continue to be Dominican.
Don't believe everything that is said in the press / media shows. Read the actual constitution to see what it really says instead of what some people want for you to believe.
There is a lot of nonsense being said about this new constitution, don't fall for the hype.
Here is the constitution, word-for-word:
Texto completo del proyecto de reforma constitucional
nationality for lots of children.....
Los nacidos en el territorio nacional de padres extranjeros si la legislaci?n de su pa?s de origen no les atribuye ninguna nacionalidad.
I am surprised that there is not more of a nationalist outcry over this particular article since it is going to actually grant citizenship to thousands of third generation Haitians born here. Under the Haitian constitution, you can only claim Haitian citizenship if your parents were born in Haiti. So if you are third generation Haitian, born to parents who were born here, which is the case for MOST of the sugar cane cutters among others, then you do not have the rights of citizenship in Haiti, and so legally have the rights of citizenship here.
All along, I have been surprised by the silence on the Constitution of the various groups who have been working on this issue... and this is perhaps why.
Los nacidos en el territorio nacional de padres extranjeros si la legislaci?n de su pa?s de origen no les atribuye ninguna nacionalidad.
I am surprised that there is not more of a nationalist outcry over this particular article since it is going to actually grant citizenship to thousands of third generation Haitians born here. Under the Haitian constitution, you can only claim Haitian citizenship if your parents were born in Haiti. So if you are third generation Haitian, born to parents who were born here, which is the case for MOST of the sugar cane cutters among others, then you do not have the rights of citizenship in Haiti, and so legally have the rights of citizenship here.
All along, I have been surprised by the silence on the Constitution of the various groups who have been working on this issue... and this is perhaps why.
As you know the Haitian situation is unique. Many of those third generation Haitians have been put in the category of being here illegally or in transit so the illegality is magically transferred to their offspring. Dominican Supreme Court said so in 2005. Thus no nationality.
The beachwear protest outside Congress
Cientos de ciudadanos protestan por nueva Constituci?n ante el Congreso
?Toy Jarto! El Sentir del Pueblo Dominicano
List of organisations against constitutional revisory assembly
http://www.clavedigital.com/ktmllite/files/uploads/POLITICA/ESA-NO-ES-MI-CONSTITUCION.pdf
Cientos de ciudadanos protestan por nueva Constituci?n ante el Congreso
?Toy Jarto! El Sentir del Pueblo Dominicano
List of organisations against constitutional revisory assembly
http://www.clavedigital.com/ktmllite/files/uploads/POLITICA/ESA-NO-ES-MI-CONSTITUCION.pdf
that was then
Keep watching this issue.The change in the Constitution would give those illegals another claim... Of course, there is a lot of interest in Haiti now since Clinton got the UN job...Now that Haiti is out of debt and there is all that aid money coming in. Aid Money always comes with lots of zeros attached so it makes a certain group of people very interested.
Keep watching this issue.The change in the Constitution would give those illegals another claim... Of course, there is a lot of interest in Haiti now since Clinton got the UN job...Now that Haiti is out of debt and there is all that aid money coming in. Aid Money always comes with lots of zeros attached so it makes a certain group of people very interested.
hi, can anybody in this forum gove me a rundown on how this constitutional reform process works?
i'm doing some research on it, and the whole thing is quit confusing. as far as i understand, leonel initiated the process, arguing that clarification was needed on the issue of nationality, because the nationality of children born to dominican parents abroad was not regulated in the constitution.
in contrast to previous reforms, the reform process was supposed to be preceded by an open debate, that should include all of dominican society, and not be restricted to certain elites, hence consulta popular. the aim of the whole thing was to create a modern constitution, that would put the dominican republic in a better position to overcome its many problems and flawed political system.
however, leonel, or whoever draftet the text for the new constitution, managed to ignore all propositions and concerns coming from the dominican population. therefore, people are not happy with it, they don't want the reform, but at this point, there is little they can do. article 30 is the most controversial aspect of the constitution, but in general, people despise the whole thing. consensus is, that the new constitution is not modern but backwards.
the text that was drafted at this point is also being mutilated in congress, so that now, even those that wrote the new constitution are against the reform.
did i get that right? what are the different steps in the reform process (initiation by leonel, consulta popular, draft by experts, first and second reading in congress, or anything else)? what where the results of consulta popular, and in how far where they ignored? what is the difference between the old constitution and the new text? what is happening in congress right now? from what i understand they are passing and changing different articles step by step. apart from articulo 300, were people unhappy with the original reform text, or just with the one that is being put together in congress right now? what is the pact between pld and prd all about?
why did leonel initiate the whole thing in the first place? especially when it now appears to be backwards, and to meet widespread resentment in the dominican population? why did he promise participation if he didn't really want it? wouldn't it have been more easy to amend the constitution without consulta popular the way it was done 35 times before?
and last but not least, what is all the fuss about? if the constitution has been reformed 35 times before, it can be amended again and again and again, so why this big project at this time?
i'm doing some research on it, and the whole thing is quit confusing. as far as i understand, leonel initiated the process, arguing that clarification was needed on the issue of nationality, because the nationality of children born to dominican parents abroad was not regulated in the constitution.
in contrast to previous reforms, the reform process was supposed to be preceded by an open debate, that should include all of dominican society, and not be restricted to certain elites, hence consulta popular. the aim of the whole thing was to create a modern constitution, that would put the dominican republic in a better position to overcome its many problems and flawed political system.
however, leonel, or whoever draftet the text for the new constitution, managed to ignore all propositions and concerns coming from the dominican population. therefore, people are not happy with it, they don't want the reform, but at this point, there is little they can do. article 30 is the most controversial aspect of the constitution, but in general, people despise the whole thing. consensus is, that the new constitution is not modern but backwards.
the text that was drafted at this point is also being mutilated in congress, so that now, even those that wrote the new constitution are against the reform.
did i get that right? what are the different steps in the reform process (initiation by leonel, consulta popular, draft by experts, first and second reading in congress, or anything else)? what where the results of consulta popular, and in how far where they ignored? what is the difference between the old constitution and the new text? what is happening in congress right now? from what i understand they are passing and changing different articles step by step. apart from articulo 300, were people unhappy with the original reform text, or just with the one that is being put together in congress right now? what is the pact between pld and prd all about?
why did leonel initiate the whole thing in the first place? especially when it now appears to be backwards, and to meet widespread resentment in the dominican population? why did he promise participation if he didn't really want it? wouldn't it have been more easy to amend the constitution without consulta popular the way it was done 35 times before?
and last but not least, what is all the fuss about? if the constitution has been reformed 35 times before, it can be amended again and again and again, so why this big project at this time?
Consulta Popular - Resultados Consulta Web
Lots more on that website, so I suggest you might want to look through all of it.
thanks for the link, will look through it.
do you happen to know of a concise article about the whole process? up to now i am stuck with hundreds of small news from the daly newspapers, and i am desparetely trying to get some order into all this information. i am also not quite sure at what point the reform process is at right now. while some news sound as if certain things were law by now, i get the impression from other articles that the whole thing is still in limbo and might even fail.
do you happen to know of a concise article about the whole process? up to now i am stuck with hundreds of small news from the daly newspapers, and i am desparetely trying to get some order into all this information. i am also not quite sure at what point the reform process is at right now. while some news sound as if certain things were law by now, i get the impression from other articles that the whole thing is still in limbo and might even fail.
Limbo is the polite word 
. I don't think the process is designed to enable anyone to write a concise article such as you are looking for. Whether the confusion which surrounds the subject is a deliberate ploy to divert attention away from the next tax hike or the Haitian nationality issue or something else, I don't know. I would imagine most residents here would be looking for the real reason behind all this and not just assuming monumental cack-handedness.
What would be interesting, as you're researching this, is to take each of these written, downloable proposals and see what happened to them:
Consulta Popular - Propuestas Recibidas
I'd be interested in reading your research piece when completed. Good luck.
. I don't think the process is designed to enable anyone to write a concise article such as you are looking for. Whether the confusion which surrounds the subject is a deliberate ploy to divert attention away from the next tax hike or the Haitian nationality issue or something else, I don't know. I would imagine most residents here would be looking for the real reason behind all this and not just assuming monumental cack-handedness.What would be interesting, as you're researching this, is to take each of these written, downloable proposals and see what happened to them:
Consulta Popular - Propuestas Recibidas
I'd be interested in reading your research piece when completed. Good luck.
Civil disobedience
The next act in the civil disobedience street theater has been announced...
these folks are REALLY imaginative...
Now they are taking it to the center of the city, to the Acropolis Mall which is where all the teens of the way rica hang out, going to have supper at TG Fridays, and just walking aimlessly through the Mall, spending Daddy's money.
And btw why not block traffic on Churchill while we are at it?
interesting dance!
Jornada Nacional de Encendido de Velas.
Prende una vela//Prende tu Pais
Viernes 16 de octubre
desde las 7:00 PM
frente a tu casa prende una vela.
En Santo Domingo: tendremos un encendido de velas en la ave, Winston Churchill esq. Rafael Augusto Sanchez (frente a Acropolis Center) estaremos a partir de las 5:30 PM.
pegando stikers, recolectando firmas, jugando vitilla, domino, voley ball, ect. y al final prendiendo una vela.
En Santiago: estaran reuniendose en la ave. Las Carreras, cercano al monumento.
The next act in the civil disobedience street theater has been announced...
these folks are REALLY imaginative...
Now they are taking it to the center of the city, to the Acropolis Mall which is where all the teens of the way rica hang out, going to have supper at TG Fridays, and just walking aimlessly through the Mall, spending Daddy's money.
And btw why not block traffic on Churchill while we are at it?
interesting dance!
Jornada Nacional de Encendido de Velas.
Prende una vela//Prende tu Pais
Viernes 16 de octubre
desde las 7:00 PM
frente a tu casa prende una vela.
En Santo Domingo: tendremos un encendido de velas en la ave, Winston Churchill esq. Rafael Augusto Sanchez (frente a Acropolis Center) estaremos a partir de las 5:30 PM.
pegando stikers, recolectando firmas, jugando vitilla, domino, voley ball, ect. y al final prendiendo una vela.
En Santiago: estaran reuniendose en la ave. Las Carreras, cercano al monumento.
The issue of citizenship for undocumented illegals
Regino advierte hijos de haitianos quedan expuestos a delincuencia si no se les reconoce su nacionalidad :: CLAVE digital m?vil
Padre Regino, who works for the Catholic NGO Solidaridad Froteriza up in Dajabon has come out against the provisions for citizenship in the new Constitution. (I was waiting for someone to say something!)
There was just a deportation of about 30 undocumented Haitian minors from the Santiago region.
Regino says that these children are only in the country because the border police let them come in (not quite true, IMHO since the border is 235 miles long and impossible to police and since market days are open on the DR side in three towns twice a week)
When Carter was here, he said that the DR could not control Haitian immigratiion, based on this fact and the fact that the US and other "developed" countries cannot control immigration.
In Listin, there was one commentary that responded to this speech by talking about the "North American plan" for reunification.....
Regino advierte hijos de haitianos quedan expuestos a delincuencia si no se les reconoce su nacionalidad :: CLAVE digital m?vil
Padre Regino, who works for the Catholic NGO Solidaridad Froteriza up in Dajabon has come out against the provisions for citizenship in the new Constitution. (I was waiting for someone to say something!)
There was just a deportation of about 30 undocumented Haitian minors from the Santiago region.
Regino says that these children are only in the country because the border police let them come in (not quite true, IMHO since the border is 235 miles long and impossible to police and since market days are open on the DR side in three towns twice a week)
When Carter was here, he said that the DR could not control Haitian immigratiion, based on this fact and the fact that the US and other "developed" countries cannot control immigration.
In Listin, there was one commentary that responded to this speech by talking about the "North American plan" for reunification.....
Breaking ranks
Of all the issues in the new Constitution, the one that seems to have caused a break in the ranks of the PRD, is this one..
(Which I do not understand,,, help help help)
La reuni?n de este martes se produce luego de que los asamble?stas de los partidos de la Liberaci?n Dominicana y Reformista Social Cristiano votaran este lunes en contra al pacto suscrito entre Leonel Fern?ndez y Miguel Vargas Maldonado en torno al tema de la composici?n del Consejo Nacional de la Magistratura.
El pacto Leonel- Miguel aseguraba al PRD, como partido opositor mayoritario, una representaci?n decisiva en el Consejo Nacional de la Magistratura, organismo que elige a los jueces y, a partir de la nueva Constituci?n, elegir? tambi?n a los miembros del Ministerio P?blico (fiscales y ayudantes fiscales).
Evidently in the New Constitution there is also some sort of provision that makes the members of Congress more members of a given party?
*Sometimes, I think that the press is actually TRYING to keep these issue unclear... and I do not want to say that about Clave which I consider the top paper,,, but WHY is this ONE THING such a big deal to the legislators ?
(is there money involved here ? Could it be? I am shocked, simply shocked ......)
Of all the issues in the new Constitution, the one that seems to have caused a break in the ranks of the PRD, is this one..
(Which I do not understand,,, help help help)
La reuni?n de este martes se produce luego de que los asamble?stas de los partidos de la Liberaci?n Dominicana y Reformista Social Cristiano votaran este lunes en contra al pacto suscrito entre Leonel Fern?ndez y Miguel Vargas Maldonado en torno al tema de la composici?n del Consejo Nacional de la Magistratura.
El pacto Leonel- Miguel aseguraba al PRD, como partido opositor mayoritario, una representaci?n decisiva en el Consejo Nacional de la Magistratura, organismo que elige a los jueces y, a partir de la nueva Constituci?n, elegir? tambi?n a los miembros del Ministerio P?blico (fiscales y ayudantes fiscales).
Evidently in the New Constitution there is also some sort of provision that makes the members of Congress more members of a given party?
*Sometimes, I think that the press is actually TRYING to keep these issue unclear... and I do not want to say that about Clave which I consider the top paper,,, but WHY is this ONE THING such a big deal to the legislators ?
(is there money involved here ? Could it be? I am shocked, simply shocked ......)
Not the members of Congress - as I understand it, this refers to the composition of the National Magistrates Council, the congressional body that selects judges. It implies that under the terms of the pact, the PRD would be allowed a majority on the Council, but the PLD assembly members voted against it, thus defying the pact.
See item in yesterday's DR1 News:
See item in yesterday's DR1 News:
thanks but it was another stipulation
so this one was about power, not money?
No there was another article that I was referring to,,, and I do not have the time to access it now.. do not even know if it was just a rumour. Something about making the members of Congress more accountable to their party, quashing their independence?
Was it the PRD or the PLD that signed an alliance with PRSC? with Amable, the guy who was the candidate for the poor, and wore the Rolex and the designer suits and campaigned around the country by helicopter dropping down 100 pesos notes? Such an actor!!!
so this one was about power, not money?
No there was another article that I was referring to,,, and I do not have the time to access it now.. do not even know if it was just a rumour. Something about making the members of Congress more accountable to their party, quashing their independence?
Was it the PRD or the PLD that signed an alliance with PRSC? with Amable, the guy who was the candidate for the poor, and wore the Rolex and the designer suits and campaigned around the country by helicopter dropping down 100 pesos notes? Such an actor!!!