The Great Color Debate

Sunshyne · Dec 3, 2002

I'm sure this is not a new topic but please bear with me as I'm new. By way of background, I am of S. Asian heritage although I am quite fair-skinned. On my first trip to RD I was surprised at the color war...I had thought it was more apparent in other islands, ie. Trinidad, etc. My skin color seemed to be a pretty favorable thing. In fact, my friend's mother (who is black) even asked if I would have children with her son so that she could have light grandchildren with "good" hair!
Now, I know the history and the reasons (Dominican/Haitian strife, etc.) but it was still a bit shocking to feel the extent to which skin color is an issue. As an Indian person, I am WELL acquainted with the "light bright and close to white" ideal and am even told to stay out of the sun (not b/c of the damaging effects) by some older relatives of mine. To which I respond by laughing, and spending as much time as I can in the sun!

Jane J. · Dec 3, 2002

I don't think it's that big of a deal.

It's like you say, in many countries white is idealized; "good" hair is valued, skin-bleaching creams are sold, people stay out of the sun, etc.

Also, as you say, it has something to do with Haiti, and also it reinforces a peasant stigma. But I look at it as archaic, ignorant, classist...At least there isn't racially motivated crime, hatemongering or any of that sort of thing. It's dumb, but it's harmless. Character prevails over colour in the end.

Criss Colon · Dec 4, 2002

"Jesus", JaneJ,what the hell are you saying????!

You don't think that its that big a DEAL!!???"Its dumb,but its HARMLESS"????Yes,it is "DUMB",but "Harmless"?I don't think so! Not here,not anywhere!The "Color" question,or "Hue", question is a BIG DEAL! Everywhere! In discrimination through all levels of society,culture,education,employment,and discrimination of all types.You,as a "White" person are more than likely "blind" to this.If you need to be "enlightened" just ask any "person-of-color"anywhere in the World if "Color" matters? They will fill you in! "Color" rules in the DR and most other places.To the "Light skinned" go all the spoils:jobs,education,money,priviledges of all kinds begin at the "Top" of the "Color Scale" and diminish as the skin"Darkens!Your ignorant point-of-view is the root of the problem! "God"!,it looks like there is much work yet to be done! CRIS COLON

MommC · Dec 4, 2002

Much as I hate to say it I must agree with CC! Even in Egypt "colour" was obvious to the untrained eye. All the desk clerks and higher up jobs were done by Egyptians of "lighter" hue while the housekeeping and ground staff were all "darker".

Ken · Dec 4, 2002

Cris is right, color is important. A lighter-skinned Pe?a Gomez is much more likely to have been elected President.

In a number of instances I know of color was also an important consideration in choosing a mate. The lighter skinned the child, the better his/her chances was the feeling.

PJT · Dec 4, 2002

Color is a Factor

Color is a factor here. I live in the Punta Cana area and I do observe discrimination by skin color, especially along the beaches. There are beach fronts that a public and those of the resorts. The law in the D.R. states that all beaches are public, meaning that anyone can use them. However, on the private beach fronts you will note the vigilantes (resorts guards) will turn back any Dominican (dark skin) without a resort bracelet from passing through the resort beach area. My wife is Dominican and light skinned, she has walked the area beaches public and private without a resort bracelet and never has been challenged by the guards. Me, the Gringo, I have never been challenged, In fact the guards will wave and say hello to me. Yet, I have seen on many occasions the guards turning back any dark skinned Dominican or Haitian that are not known by them. Even the dark skinned owners of houses in my residencial have been blocked from access to the beach they have a right to access. If you are dark skinned in the D.R. you are at a disadvantage. Regards, PJT

arturo · Dec 4, 2002

Jane, if you aren't joking then you have a big opportunity to learn some things about the world in which you live. You are reminding me of whoever it was that posted something about owning a business gives you the right to discriminate as you see fit.

Petaka · Dec 4, 2002

Color is everything in the DR.

And discrimination was blatant when I was looking for work. Reading the newspaper's classifieds for employment, most of the ads would start with the following sentence: "Se necesita persona de buenas apariencias or presentable ". Which meant: dark skin with bad hair individuals need no apply.

AZB · Dec 4, 2002

Jane J lived in sosua, 100% black meat town, therefore if everyone is of the same color then discrimination won't be as apparent as in other towns. In santiago the rules change. If you are of lighter skin tone, the doors of opportunity open up to you. God forbid if you are of an african heritage, you better be a rich politician or a well-known MD or a lawyer to get any respect.
There are several bars where a black person can't enter. The doorman simply stops you and tells you that its a private party event in progress. I have seen this policy in practice in many occasions, right before my eyes. They stopped a black couple from entering and told them that it was a private party and only people with invitation were allowed to enter. When they walked away, i questioned the doorman, at that instance the doorman laughed and let me enter.
Racism is more openly practiced here than in many parts of this world. Just look into the hotel staff in any resort. All dark skinned folks are doing the low end jobs while the whiter folks are in the management positions.

Jane J. · Dec 4, 2002

You're right - it's not harmless. That was a na?ve thing to say and I apologize if I belittled anyone's experience overcoming racist attitudes.

In fact, my friend's mother (who is black) even asked if I would have children with her son so that she could have light grandchildren with "good" hair!

That's what I meant was not a big deal. Is everyone here going verbally attack the next person who refers to good hair / bad hair? Should we petition the pharmacies to remove Dermalina from the shelves? Should the word "prieto" be made some sort of PC crime?

"Color" RULES in the DR and most other places.

Well I just don't see that. I see that money rules, poverty entraps and that education is key.

Being black is not a sentence of doom, CC. For example, if you take 5 brothers from the same family, all of varying "hues", as you say, can you guarantee that the lightest-skinned one will fare the best?

If Pe?a had been lighter-skinned, Balaguer would have ceded to him? Twice?

Criss Colon · Dec 4, 2002

"JaneJ" thanks for "posting" and clearing up the "Color" issue!

You have only added weight to my argument!Color RULES in the DR and most other places"CC........"Well I just don't see that"JaneJ"............"Duh!" My point exactly!!!Did you read everyones response? You are a "Majority" of ONE! You don't get it! You still belong to the racist school that teaches; "If Blacks would just get off their lazy asses and get a job they would be just like everyone else!" Yes,but they would still be "Black",and you wouldn't want "one" to marry your daughter,or live nextdoor,because you know how "They" are!" "Defacto"racism is the worst kind because it's perveyors think that they are very open-minded.It is very Patronizing,and it makes me furious! I would rather have a KKK member say he hates me because I'm Black,than a Liberal Democrat "help" me with a new "Federal Program for the Disadvantaged"! At least I would know where I stand! CRIS

Pavan · Dec 4, 2002

Now thats all I need, another Indian on the board.

Have kids with me Sunshyne...why mix the blood..

heehee

Sunshyne · Dec 4, 2002

I'm not surprised at the number of responses. It is a big issue, as big in RD as anywhere else in the world (maybe even bigger). Its quite sad and the more we downplay it the worse it will be. I have heard "Puerto Ricano's" (pardon the spelling and lack of accent) refer to dark skinned Dominican's in a derogatory manner ("moreno/a" would be a more polite term compared to some). While others are happy to be sought after b/c of their skin color, ultimately its a sad state that is perpetuated again and again. Lets remember that Black is Beautiful!!

AZB · Dec 5, 2002

Sunshyne, don't worry, even if you are of a dark tint you still have indian fine features and you possess straight hair. You will not be considered a black so stop worrying. I am pakistani but not of jet black color and I have straight hair. I am always cofused for a typical well-to-do santiaguero. In fact, if you have a bit of fair skin and straight hair and speak in an educated manner, you are automatically considered white. If you look pink (sort of like a peeled skined criss colon) you are automatically considered a gringo.

Jane J. · Dec 5, 2002

Criss, don't you think that after 8 yrs of marriage to a Dominican man I *maybe* have had some encounters with racism? You say, colour rules in the DR? No, colour ruled in the apartheid of South Africa. There are many stigmas in DR culture, of which colour is only one. BTW, some of my best friends are....oops.

mondongo · Dec 5, 2002

If you are black....or just darker than average....your opportunities become depleted....as CC says...no matter how much your house or your car costs....whether you use high end vocabulary....you are still black...take it form me as a Dominican of average complexion and hair...one who has lived on both sides of the tracks....your skin color is the most dominant factor in social and maybe even economic development....sad but true

mkohn · Dec 5, 2002

Discrimination is hurtful, wheather black or white, short or tall, thin or fat, male or female, etc. nobody should be judged by these and other traits. As far as I'm concerned, it is the differences that make people interesting. If we were all the same, it has been said, we would need only one...
mk being philosophical

Sunshyne · Dec 5, 2002

To AZB - Actually, I'm not at all "worried" about being taken for black. Like you, I'm Pakistani and very fair so while I'm not taken for a gringo, it is unlikely that I would be taken for someone black. Except of course in the US where as long as you're not white you're "black."

Pib · Dec 5, 2002

I don't know exactly what Jane meant... but in that same line. I'd rather have the kind of racism that we have here than the kind there is in the US. It's kinda like gay rights. Here they don't have any "particular" rights, but they are not lynched, or dragged tied to a car until they die. Of course I would like better if we didn't have ANY kind of racism.

BTW, I have never, EVER felt discriminated against in this country, neither because of my color nor because of my gender (or any other reason for that matter). I guess it has a lot to do with my kick*** attitude. Nobody is better than me for something they received at birth and was not achieved.

BTW. I believe that Anglo-Americans are not the only racist in the US. BET, Ebony, anyone?

MommC · Dec 6, 2002

The only people I have ever met who were more racist (if that's possible) than "whites" were "blacks" or "yellows"!
I don't think racism HAS a "COLOUR"! However I do agree with Pib that I would like it better if we didn't have ANY kind of racism......but then again I do tend to be an idealist at times.

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