What's Your Definition Of "I MADE IT", After Moving To The DR?

miguel · Feb 7, 2006

I was talking to my friend of 31 years, Ramon, who recently moved to the DR after planning it for what seemed like 20 years, and I asked him a very simple question, "are you making it"?.

His answer was long and right to the point:

"why do you think that I was planning, saving and working like a dog for so many years?, it was because I wanted to have a much better life when I relocate to the DR. I did not want to be worrying about from where my next meal was coming from. What's the point if I came here to have the same problems that I had in the US. Can you imagine, after working so hard, for me to live worse". He continued with:

"See, my plan was to not work for anybody after moving here, so I made sure to have my own businesses before getting here. I was not going to be seeing behind a motorconcho, so I shipped my cars over. I was not going to pay rent and live just about anywhere, so I bought a few land lots and built my own home. I want electricity and water 24/7, I made all the arrangement to have them 24/7. I am making it because I worked very hard to have what I have and I will not settle for nothing but the best for me and my family. If I did not settle for the best, then why sacrifice myself for so many years".

And:

"There's a woman here, from Germany, that I really do not know what this woman is doing here. She is the perfect example of what not to do when relocating to the DR. She claims to be very happy but how happy can she be when sometimes she has to borrow money to pay the rent even though her rent is like 3,000 pesos, how happy can she be when she lives in a run-down apartment that has less furniture than a desert, how happy can she be when she is always complaining about not having enough money to eat at a decent restaurant, how happy can she be when all she takes are motorconchos because she does not have a car and they are cheaper, how happy can she be when the only people that befriend her are at her same economical level, how happy can she be when almost everybody think that she is a joke for being a foreigner and being poorer than a poor Dominican, how happy can she be when her boyfriend is nothing more than a lowlife that only uses her for sex and does not help her at all.......". Also:

"She claims that she has made it, now, you tell me, how can anybody claim to have made it when their lives are in such shambles and are much worse than the way they lived back home, how?". (Btw, when I wanted to give him DR1's address so he can post his "I made it" story, all he said was " are you kidding me, I will pack my bags, hop into the car with my young son and wife and I will be driving to Pedernales and stay there for 2 weeks, just for the heck of it, see I don't have to worry about anything")

There are so many people claiming to have "made it" when in fact they are poorer than a poor Dominican. How can that be?. I mean, what's your definition of "I made it"?.

In my book, if you, after relocating to the DR, have to live paycheck by paycheck, if you live worse than you did before relocating, if you have to worry about "not spending on this" or "not spending on that" because you can not afford it, if you can't not go to a fine restaurant every now and then, if you don't live better or similar to what you are used to, if ALL you attracts are lowlives who live just like you, if MOST people in your town look down on you, if you have to work like a dog for "pennies"...., to me THAT'S NOT MAKING IT. It's just SURVIVING!.

People, the great Dominican breeze, the amazing Dominican people, the beautiful Dominicans beaches or the good Dominican culture DO NOT PAY THE BILLS!.

So, people, as a person who will eventually relocate to the DR, and since I know what MY definition of "I made it" is, what's yours?.

NOTE, NOTE, NOTE, NOTE, NOTE, NOTE:

Remember that this is a question and as in any question, YOUR answer can be challenged. If you don't want to be challenged, POR FAVOR, do not post. If you do, DO NOT get annoyed if and when SOME members challenges your logics and opinions. AGAIN, if you can not take it, STAY AWAY!!!!!.

carina · Feb 7, 2006

Miquel, for me "having made it" is not about paying my bills, or manage to do so. That is the essence of survival here, as anywhere else.

I think I felt that "I made it", or "this feels OK now" was when I had my home here where I wanted it to be, when I felt I had really good friends to spend time with, when my son felt happy, had great people and a good school to go to.
When I knew my ways around, geographically and culture wise.
When I felt at home, to put it simple.

To be able to go out and eat, or to meet at any time for a beer etc, that is a way of living here. If THAT is an issue for someone, moneywise or relationwise, then I think life must feel short living here under such circumstances.

This is a topic, that mean different things to different persons.

xamaicano · Feb 7, 2006

Maybe her life sucked in Germany, too and DR was a nicer place to have it suck.

something_of_the_night · Feb 7, 2006

Well...

The big question is: Are you ready to defend your definition of "I HAVE MADE IT"?

Dude, money is not everything; some of us are just happy laughing at the "good" fortunes of others. And that fraulein may be happier than a yellow-bellied sap-sucker at a toad frog convention.

Larry · Feb 7, 2006

Its more than having enough money to live well. That is essential but only the first part of the equation. I think people get so caught up in financially making it that they forget about the rest of the things that go along with "making it".

Moving to a new country, you are essentially beginning a new life. So to "make it" you have to:

--develop good friendships
--get in tune with your new surroundings and enjoy them
--appreciate and embrace the new culture you have decided to live within
--recognize cultural differences and dont try to impose the ideals of the country you left behind on people
--develop a good reputation in your community
--etc.

There is a lot more to making a new life than having a comfortable nest egg. Some people dont recognize or consider these things ahead of time and their move here is a failure.

Larry

carina · Feb 7, 2006

Larry, I agree with you 100 %, no 101 % actually!
The most common question is always about money, even from people that do plan to move here.

Money is needed of course, to live comfortable ( after your own definition ) here as well, but understanding and embracing the culture is as important,
in order to feel "at home".

miguel · Feb 7, 2006

Ok!

carina said:
Larry, I agree with you 100 %, no 101 % actually!
The most common question is always about money, even from people that do plan to move here.

Money is needed of course, to live comfortable ( after your own definition ) here as well, but understanding and embracing the culture is as important,
in order to feel "at home".

Larry and Carina:

I do understand, 100% what you guys are saying and you guys are right but I am sure that by having some money to back you up, in the DR, it would make things easier. I mean, would the super rich in the DR give me the time of day if I am as poor as a shoeshine boy. Would they want to befriend me if I live in a rat-hole and do not have a cent to my name.

Let's not forget that in the DR, in many instances, it's NOT who you are but rather WHAT you have. Would it help me to have good friends and understand my surroundings and culture if I don't have a cent in the bank and live as poor as a poor Dominican?.

Anna, btw, the last time I checked, you still live in Canada and not the DR. It's not a matter of live and let live but, for me, is a matter of knowing about people that claim to make it in the DR. Again, I WILL move over there some day and I want to know people's definition of "making it".

To me, money has a big part in "making it" over there. Big.

qgrande · Feb 7, 2006

Miguel, I agree with you that the definition of 'I made it' is based on financial succes and acquired wealth. It's simply what the expression is normally used for, so this German woman stretched the concept too far by saying she 'made it'.
On the other hand, according to your post, most what she was going on about was about being happy. And then I agree with Larry, Carina and something... , happiness is not always about money, and she could very well be very happy. Being happy is subjective and what makes you happy is different for everyone. Being happy and having made it just are different things. Your friend has made it and is happy, the German woman has not made it but is still happy.

carina · Feb 7, 2006

Life here is not a vacation, if you have money or if you don?t.
The first "friends" you meet when moving here, I did and we all did, are not the people any of us are friends with today.
A smile here from a stranger, is not someone who is your friend. It is someone who wants to know you for reasons. That is part of the culture, a result of poverty and the "knowing" that we have more than he/she.
Depending on how you live, how/where you work or spend your days, where you hang out etc etc, is also how the local people in society will look upon you.
Some people, those who don?t live here, say it doesn?t matter.
It matters, and it matters alot, as how can you feel at home somewhere, if you are not accepted by the people around you?

A way to financially support yourself is a must, but the rest comes with that.

Miquel, as for your comment about getting into the society, on any levels..
You get into the poorest or the tourismchasers society very fast if you want that ( I am speaking in general, so please now don?t start with " I know a poor person... ), as they want something from you.
To be accepted by the middleclass, the upper middleclass or above, you will have to have the same standard of living, the same or better education or experiences etc as them, and it will still be hard.
If you have common friends, simular interests in life, simular views etc, then eventually you will find friends among the local people.
Good friends, who do not take advantage of you.

This is a very wide topic, and I am sure there are people who feel they don?t care about money, or about reputation etc etc, and still feel they have made it. Simply because they have made life easier for themselves here, in views of not having a mailbox, not paying taxes, not having a legal status etc etc.
We are all different.. and having made it will therefor be different and on different levels..

NALs · Feb 7, 2006

miguel said:
Larry and Carina:

I do understand, 100% what you guys are saying and you guys are right but I am sure that by having some money to back you up, in the DR, it would make things easier. I mean, would the super rich in the DR give me the time of day if I am as poor as a shoeshine boy. Would they want to befriend me if I live in a rat-hole and do not have a cent to my name.

Let's not forget that in the DR, in many instances, it's NOT who you are but rather WHAT you have. Would it help me to have good friends and understand my surroundings and culture if I don't have a cent in the bank and live as poor as a poor Dominican?.

Anna, btw, the last time I checked, you still live in Canada and not the DR. It's not a matter of live and let live but, for me, is a matter of knowing about people that claim to make it in the DR. Again, I WILL move over there some day and I want to know people's definition of "making it".

To me, money has a big part in "making it" over there. Big.

Miguel Miguel Miguel,

Simply remember one simple thing.

Most Dominicans have the basics. They have family, they have a roof (the quality varies with income but a roof is a roof), they always scrape enough money for mangu with olive oil in the morning, bandera Dominicana at noon, and "una cenita" at night. They play dominos, listen to music, laugh, etc.

But do people really want simply the basics?

The migration patterns around the world proves that people want more than the basics and often, more means money, more money, more money, more money.

People say that poverty causes people to migrate, I say peoples desire for more money causes them to migrate. Two very different things of viewing the exact same phenomenon.

People want more than the basics and non-basic things can only be attained with money.

When people say "I made it", it means they have attained the monetary gain they desired. I don't think anyone says I made it, simply because they attained the basics?!

I made it means I have the means, the money, the fruit of my labor or investment.

Of course, only a person with modest wants would ever reach a point in his/her life when he/she can say "I made it". For most people, the moment they earn a little more money, that is when they want to live beyond their means.

I'm happy refers to being satisfied with what you have in terms of family relations, personal well being, etc. I made it refers to monetary gain as you once dreamed of having.

Two different things people often confuse.

And again, few people will ever say I made it, because the moment we are able to afford an upgrade in our lifestyle, that is when we want to go overboard and few people will sincerely (in all honesty) say to themselves and know in their hearts that when they are happy, because often times happiness is confused with making it and many people cannot envision one without the other.

-NALs

sunshine_79 · Feb 7, 2006

The ideal of "making it" to me is simply being happy with yourself and your life and knowing that if you could, you would not go back in time and change anything.

I think that the whole notion of making it somewhere is waayyyy too abstract to compartmentalize and certainly can't be defined by anyone.

What one person considers "making it" might be completely different from another.

It's all a spectrum of who we are, what we need, what we want, where we've been and where we're going.

As for me personally, I don't consider myself having made it or not made it here in the DR. I simply live here, work here and enjoy my life immensely. I have everything that I want, more than enough money to sustain my lifestyle and friendships with amazing people.

To reiterate what Larry said, I've never once expected the culture here to adapt to my needs and wants - that would be the ultimate selfish act.

Am I happy? Very much so.

Are some expats I know extrememly unhappy? Absolutely.

In the end, who knows why some of us make a home for ourselves here and why others simply treat it as though they're on vacation.

To quote Epicurus:

"Happiness is man's greatest aim in life. Tranquility and rationality are the cornerstones of happiness."

So to me, making it in the DR - or anywhere for that matter - is a personal definition that is unique to each and every one of us. It can't be assessed by another person if someone has made it or not.

The ideal of making it is simply too ambiguous to circumscribe.

Something that makes me curious, Miguel, is why your friend spent as much time telling you about someone he looks down on than he did telling you about his good fortune and his happiness.

Perhaps to your friend, being in a position to gossip about people who don't share his lifestyle is his definition of "making it?"

I feel sorry for people who can't afford to go out to eat or buy furniture but I don't feel the need to gossip about them to other people.

THE GAME · Feb 7, 2006

for me making it in DR is simplerrrrr.... if you move to DR and you still have to work to survive/pay bills/buy stuff then you have not made it. Why move to another country where you'll earn less than where you came from? why? why not stay in your country and earn more and save.. ok i understand DR you don't have all the bs you have in US, for example, but please don't say you've made it in DR when you still have to work. If you own businessess and have enough money then i can say someone made it.

sunshine_79 · Feb 7, 2006

THE GAME said:
for me making it in DR is simplerrrrr.... if you move to DR and you still have to work to survive/pay bills/buy stuff then you have not made it. Why move to another country where you'll earn less than where you came from? why? why not stay in your country and earn more and save.. ok i understand DR you don't have all the bs you have in US, for example, but please don't say you've made it in DR when you still have to work. If you own businessess and have enough money then i can say someone made it.

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you on this one. There are plenty of expats in the DR, and plenty from this board, that work. Maybe some need to and perhaps others don't but you make it sound like working is somehow a bad thing.

Some people are geuinely happy with what they do. Nothing is really "work" unless you would rather be doing something else.

THE GAME · Feb 7, 2006

sunshine_79 said:
I'm not sure I necessarily agree with you on this one. There are plenty of expats in the DR, and plenty from this board, that work. Maybe some need to and perhaps others don't but you make it sound like working is somehow a bad thing.

Some people are geuinely happy with what they do. Nothing is really "work" unless you would rather be doing something else.

true, true.. many people on DR1 work, are happy with what they do.. but
moving from country X to DR and not only continue to work but also earn less then in one's native country is not "making it" in DR. It's like saying you retire and move to DR and continue to work in DR,,, that's not retiring.

Making it in DR is when you don't need to work,,, is when you can do anything and not worry about the $$ that you spend,,, making it is when you own a business and just need to run it.

Robert · Feb 7, 2006

Maybe it's when...

You're is a position to be able to do what you want, when you want, and having the time and money to do it.

Then again, it could be...

Living comfortably in paradise, having zero stress, no time commitments, working with fun people, and making a living from a hobby.

Have I made it? I have no idea, but I'm having fun trying and can honestly say I'm really happy

miguel · Feb 7, 2006

Sure!

sunshine_79 said:
Something that makes me curious, Miguel, is why your friend spent as much time telling you about someone he looks down on than he did telling you about his good fortune and his happiness.

Perhaps to your friend, being in a position to gossip about people who don't share his lifestyle is his definition of "making it?"

I feel sorry for people who can't afford to go out to eat or buy furniture but I don't feel the need to gossip about them to other people.

Since "curiosity killed the cat", let me answer you:

This is just not any type of friend, this is a man that I have known, here in the US, for more than 30 years and there's no way in hell that when we talk, we talk for 1 minute, therefore, our conversation had nothing to do with "spending" too much time gossiping. He made an observation to the obvious. He does NOT need to tell me about his fortune because I know of everything that he accomplished.

Are you willing to tell me that you are the only person in the universe that, once or twice in your life, have not said anything behind a person's back?. If you have, then I don't know why you need to ask so stupid question. It's the nature of the beast.

Now, instead of being so curious and making a simple conversation being about gossip, why don't you tell us of your fortune while relocating to the DR. You know, like were you live, where you work, who are your friends, etc. I would like to hear from people like you that have relocated to the DR.

And btw, can you show me wher I said that HE looked down on her. Don't forget that EVERY SINGLE time you misquote me, I WILL make you aware of it.

But I may ask and please know that you don't have to answer it:

Of all the things that have been said on this thread, why is that specific comment(about the German lady) making you all "bend out of shape", did he "pinched" a nerve?.

miguel · Feb 7, 2006

No thanks!

AnnaC said:
Miguel she writes about her life in DR all the time in her blog. Read it sometime

Anna, ex-darling of mine, there's only one bloggie here that I read every now and then and it's carina's. Do you mean that I "edited" it like you "edited" yours?.

As I stated before, I am not a fan of bloggies because I tend to believe that MANY (MANY: AS IN MANY, NOT ALL) bloggers would say one thing here and a completely different version on their bloggies. Sometimes I feel like SOME have a double personality or are too stupid to know that some members are reading their blogs also and would call them on their statements being different. But, to SOME, that's life, I guess.

Now, can we carry on with the topic?.

carina · Feb 7, 2006

Robert said:
Maybe it's when...

You're is a position to be able to do what you want, when you want, and having the time and money to do it.

Then again, it could be...

Living comfortably in paradise, having zero stress, no time commitments, working with fun people, and making a living from a hobby.

Have I made it? I have no idea, but I'm having fun trying and can honestly say I'm really happy

I think these statements make alots of sense.
It?s, for me, and know from many other people living here as well, a mixture of it all.
One thing is sure, you need to have some money living here, saved or by earning is up to each and every one, and the rest as you state so well,
is worth just as much.
BUT, and for me an important BUT ( might not be for others ), is the luxury that I can enjoy the climate, the culture, the lack of stress... because I know I can always pay my bills.
And from a work, that is my main interest, that I love to do.
Not from rushing in a wheel, hoping for commissions, or doing something that I don?t like to do.
But again, I personally, have never done that.

Edited to include:
Personally, I don?t think in terms "Have I made it" or not.
I think in terms that I am happy, that my son is happy, that I provide him with an education, that our quality of life is high etc etc.
And I also look ahead, at his age ( 15), there are needs to look around, even maybe in other countries, for a future education, and I have discussions with people that know more about the possibilities on this topic than I have.

Willie · Feb 7, 2006

Happiness means different things to different people, just as "having made it".

Some people work 18 hours a day, buy lots of material things which other people enjoy and would tell you that "they made it".

Others make much less and are quite content with their lot in life.

We are all different. The problem arises when we stop living our lives and try to live another persons or allow someone else to dictate to us what "having made it" means.

I agree that money is important, but the important thing for me is to live my life and respect the other person's right to live theirs.

Willie

AZB · Feb 7, 2006

if you set your standards low enough, I guess you can make it anywhere.
Making it here in DR is not easy, because making money is not easy. Now we have people on this board who come here with zero plan, leave their kids behind to their mom and move in with some loser who earns 200 dollars per month, he lets her insult him in front of his friends and often live off her. She herself works in some bar where she claims to meet sleezy people and then she may end up sleeping in some **** stained mattress at night in some dark room.
My friends, if you call this making it, then I disagree with you instantly. if someone has to take motoconchos to get from point A to point B and date losers who are useless in sociaty then this person has no business giving advice to the new comers on this island. He /she would be doing a disservice to everyone who listens.
AZB

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