- Thread starter dv8
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2am shooting in POP
Those are the only two institutions allowed to use force (ie. physical violence or even death) within a society and at the same time being considered heroes. In fact, the state is the only institution that has the right to kill anyone and defines who can kill people and who cannot.
People that enforce the laws and will of the state are allowed to kill other people depending on the circumstances. Anyone else (not related to the state apparatus and/or acts on behalf of someone or some entity other than the state) who kills people, the state considers such person as a murderer or a criminal and the result is punishment for committing an act exclusively reserved for the government, unless it can be proven that an individual killed someone else in self defense.
In fact, the only difference between a criminal and a military soldier, for example, is that one acts on behalf of someone other than the state while the other acts on behalf of the state. The former is considered a potential rival to the power of the state and is the target of state violence and restrictions (ie. gets arrested and thrown to jail, gets death penalty in some countries, etc) while the latter the state considers a brave hero.
Everything taught to you through religious teachings and through education on morality, accepted public conduct, what's right and what's wrong is irrelevant because all of those ideas indoctrinated into peoples minds all achieve one simple thing:
The dominance of the state over their lives and territory and the refute of anyone who does anything that may challenge the authority of the state. For this reason most people can't tell the difference between a criminal and a police officer/army soldier; and despite both doing the exact same thing (kill people), the general public tend to have different emotions and opinions regarding both types.
This is all part of the social construct (a fancy word for lie) that is created in the minds of people in order to ensure that the status quo (ie. power and control of resources by a group of people) is maintained. This and other things such as nationalism keeps modern society and civilization in relative stability as far as its own survival is concerned.
-NALs
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Having a home in the DR and spending alot of time there, I gave this issue a few second's thought when I bought my house.
Killing an intruder may very well get me incarcerated, usually for a definite period of time.
Being killed by an intruder is permanent. There is no coming back.
My uncle used to say "I'd rather be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6."
Killing an intruder may very well get me incarcerated, usually for a definite period of time.
Being killed by an intruder is permanent. There is no coming back.
My uncle used to say "I'd rather be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6."
I like that analogy, it makes a lot of good sense to me when you weigh up the risk:benefit ratio.
funny how now people defend the police - the same police that is normally called "corrupted" and "full of thieves". sure police gets paid little but hell - those who take the job know that beforehand. and i am sure there is many honest men working there but for many this is opportunity to exercise their power and earn on the side.
what i was aiming at is that in europe a policeman who kills is suspended from duty and receives professional help. i believe that any good man who has killed - even in an accident or in self defence - will have this death on his conscience for ever. and will for ever think about that. because somebody else's death is just as permanent as your own. there is no fixing it, there is no going back.
seems like DR government does not offer psychological help for military or police. shame on that.
what i was aiming at is that in europe a policeman who kills is suspended from duty and receives professional help. i believe that any good man who has killed - even in an accident or in self defence - will have this death on his conscience for ever. and will for ever think about that. because somebody else's death is just as permanent as your own. there is no fixing it, there is no going back.
seems like DR government does not offer psychological help for military or police. shame on that.
we don't have that big quantity of psychatric clinics like you have in europe.
we lock away the bad guys and not the policemen with the shrinks.
who needs help from a shrink or not, specially after the first killing, that depends from person to person and how he grew up, which is part of the pre-preperation for what "can"happen.
if you suspend all policeman/soldiers aso after each killing and send them to the shrink the bad guys will very soon start to celebrate, all authorities off.
of course there are many who need that kind of help, most of them should never been allowed to be on the Job, but that's about political matters, he studied this and that and is from a well situated fancy family, he get's the officer's job, after his first confrontation with bad guys you can lock him away with a fancy shrink, even if he did not shoot somebody, just watching what others did on his order, watching what a bullet is doing to a face isn't something nice and fancy, and in most countries of this world the bad boys don't use those "legal" ammunition, they use the hard stuff.
Mike
we lock away the bad guys and not the policemen with the shrinks.
who needs help from a shrink or not, specially after the first killing, that depends from person to person and how he grew up, which is part of the pre-preperation for what "can"happen.
if you suspend all policeman/soldiers aso after each killing and send them to the shrink the bad guys will very soon start to celebrate, all authorities off.
of course there are many who need that kind of help, most of them should never been allowed to be on the Job, but that's about political matters, he studied this and that and is from a well situated fancy family, he get's the officer's job, after his first confrontation with bad guys you can lock him away with a fancy shrink, even if he did not shoot somebody, just watching what others did on his order, watching what a bullet is doing to a face isn't something nice and fancy, and in most countries of this world the bad boys don't use those "legal" ammunition, they use the hard stuff.
Mike
The people that are defending the police are giving him the benefit of doubt. Unless you have inside information, in regards to the above described incident, you should too. You pretty much called the cop a cold blooded killer. Now you back track and start talking some mumbo jumbo psychological crap. Europe is a large continent. I guarentee that what happens in every country is different. There are countries in Europe that police don't even carry guns. I bet there are plenty of countries where a cop is back on the street the day after a shooting.
dv8, I'm not criticizing your position on death, etc., although I will admit that I don't understand it.
I, too, do not like the idea of killing someone, under any circumstances. However, I dislike the idea of being killed even more.
If someone breaks into my home, they have not done so for the purpose of inviting me to dinner. They have come in with the intention to rob me and, if I should happen to interrupt them in the process, probably kill me. Not gonna happen, if I can help it.
I sure admit your point of view even if it is not mine. A bad guy who is going to do something bad (robbery,…) knows that there are risks. I can assure you that if somebody enters my home to steal or do something bad to me or to my animals, I’ll do everything possible so he would never go outside my home alive. And I don’t think I’ll feel bad after that! What would you want? Take him to the police station, tell him that he did something bad and send him home? Send him to jail so later when he goes out he comes back to you to kill you because he went to jail and, of course, it is your fault…??? Or maybe he will kill your friend or neighbour…anyway he will kill an innocent. If you let him go without doing anything, how would YOU feel later when he kills an innocent???
I think they know the rule of the game and if they take the risk and are killed, for me this is not a problem. Thanks anyway to the police, in that kind of things they do a good job here in DR. I think the police in lots of “developed” countries should learn from Dominican police and be stricter!
I think they know the rule of the game and if they take the risk and are killed, for me this is not a problem. Thanks anyway to the police, in that kind of things they do a good job here in DR. I think the police in lots of “developed” countries should learn from Dominican police and be stricter!