A few residency questions from the UK

[Jigglebelly]

No. You are not crazy, just a shade too optimistic. Still, it is worth a try, so long as you have a sound strategy. A few suggestions:

Rent rather than buy your home. -- Buying will eat too much of your capital too early.

Try to bring your own job with you. If you can't, you will most likely have to accept the local wage and suppliment it with your savings.

Find the best income producing investments possible BEFORE you leave for the DR. Keep your money invested in Europe for safety's sake. You will have to settle for a lower return on investment, but you will not be rolling the dice.

Have a sound exit strategy, just in case things don't work out. If you cannot sustain an acceptable lifestyle by the time HALF of your savings is gone, then it will be time for you to head back to the UK.

Go ahead. Give it a try! Just make sure you do not go home broke.

 

[Chris]

Re: been before....

....the part that I would partiularly like you to elaborate on is what you say about coming to the DR 'NOW' with pockets full of cash..... why not now?

The DR currently is going through a bit of a financial crisis. There are many folks around that would make a good case of 'assisting' you to spend your money in ways that you have not dreamed of before. Rather come down for an extended period and look around before you make spending decisions.

 

[wtf2001]

Different Scenario, or just a replay?

My question is about experience.

I have seen strong naysayers in this thread butting heads with those optomistic and hopeful for comfortable retirement at an age young enough to enjoy it.

Who has the experience to be an authority on opportunity and risk in D.R.?

I have read escapeartist.com extensively to include Ascot Services articles. I also have corresponded directly with John Schroder contemplating my own move to Hispaniola.

The dream would be to sell most of our real estate property, spare cars (we have 6...why? I don't know....keeping up with the Jones??), etc in an effort to simplify and "cash out". We are doing our budget analysis for 2 weeks during our stay in Cabarete. We will have our little notebooks and pencils busily documenting anticpates annual and monthly budgets to live the way we would be comfortable. From that number, we will add 40% for a buffer and see if our capital and the interest it draws can pull off a genuine retirement. If not, we may still move as my employment can be anywhere. I am a website developer as well as medical director, so other than power outages and the like, I could generate other income streams just about anywhere should it be necessary.

We would like to move to a rented villa in Cabarete or Sousa area, ocean view and safe for a year soucting land or property, but not committing to anything with our capital. Our resources are a residual retirement income (Company / Trust dividend) of $17,600 annual. In addition we would have a $400k nest egg to utilize investing into something secure with a moderate risk, offshore to minimize taxation.

Are the naysayers saying this is an unwise move? Expatriates are returning to their home lands in droves with their tails tucked between their legs? If that is the advice, I would like to know where the voice of experience came from. Whom has lived in DR for 5 years or more? Who owns land and saw it devalue? Who lost their ass in a leap of faith move like this? Who didn't?

I enjoy reading posts, and would like to know what interests are served by the persons of experience.


Also, on the issue of moving. Does anyone have a link to forum posts on the expense of moving a house full of effects to the DR? We have a 5 bedroom home, but will sell most of it off if there is a big import tax. Is that wise? Our intention is to sell all of the cars and keep a fairly restored 1963 plymouth valiant convertible. Is this wise? Would we be better off buying in country rather than transport cost and import tax costs?


Any feedback would be helpful. I also would like to talk with or meet people in the same boat as my family weighing these decisions. We will be in Cabarete the first 2 weeks of November.

Thanks!
Gary

 

[Robert]

nickkieswetter - Email me, I'll be in the UK soon, maybe if your close we can have a warm beer

I'm here, I'm doing it and 95% of what's written in this thread is accurate. Forget any articles you read on the web, most are old and outdated. We live here, what you are reading is "now". You will not find another source like DR1, the advice you receive here is the best and most accurate available, period!

Retiring and semi-retiring are very different. Your not 60+, so your options are also very different.

I work more hours now than I have worked in my entire life. I just do it in a great country (despite certain aspects) and with lifestyle I consider pretty good.

I have seen many people come and go, loose their money, think they could survive and didn?t, etc etc. For everyone one that makes it, 10 don?t, based on my observations?

 

[nickkieswetter]

Well considered responses......

Hi all

Chris Tremain and Pam, I would like to thank you for putting into words exactly what I have been feeling the whole time this post has been going, and even from the first time I 'decided' to make the move. You have really hit the nail on the head, what price does happiness have? Furthermore I must say that the adventure aspect is also an incredibly appealing prospect, if I were to stay here in the UK I could certainly tell you exactly what my day-to-day duties, salary and social status would be in twenty years time...... there really is very little uncertainty here in the UK for someone like me (excepting sudden death or serious illness) and this is a truely frightening prospect!!

I would also like to thank Chris for the clarification of his points about 'why now' and a big thank you to Jigglebelly, Robert and wtf2001 for their measured encouragement to my points and questions.

My mind is totally set now, I am making the move as soon as my house is sold (anyone want to buy a really nice LARGE 4Bed Det. property in the UK send me a mail!! ) It is noteable that the tone of this thread seems to have changed over the last week or so, I am not sure why this is? Maybe the doomsters have realised that I am not such a bad guy after all, my points and questions are made with serious intent (so nobody is wasting their time) and people respond better to positively constructed criticism as opposed to been beaten with a stick! (or maybe they are all bored and have gone away??)

Again thanks for all the useful info, I feel as though I have made a few friends here and certainly I have met a few people in similar circumstances with whom I can share my information and experiences.

With all that said.....ANY MORE COMMENTS QUESTIONS OR ADVICE is more than welcome.....it all goes in the old memory bank and at some stage might just prove life saving!!

Regards

Nick Kieswetter

 

[Chris]

Just before you feel misled -- Chris is a she, not a he (at least last time I checked). On this forum, we also have Criss, who is a he (and I have not checked this out personally but he certainly presents as a he.

 

[Keith R]

Re: Well considered responses......

Hi all

My mind is totally set now, I am making the move as soon as my house is sold (anyone want to buy a really nice LARGE 4Bed Det. property in the UK send me a mail!! ) It is noteable that the tone of this thread seems to have changed over the last week or so, I am not sure why this is? Maybe the doomsters have realised that I am not such a bad guy after all, my points and questions are made with serious intent (so nobody is wasting their time) and people respond better to positively constructed criticism as opposed to been beaten with a stick! (or maybe they are all bored and have gone away??)

Nickkie, it was quickly became apparent that your mind was set before you started posting. It was never a question of whether or not we thought you were "such a bad guy." The people who live in the DR or have lived in the DR tried to give you honest answers and open your eyes (and had nothing to sell you), and most of those you condemned as "doomsters." People like Pam & Chris Tremain, while well-intentioned I'm sure, have yet to live there. [BTW, I'm one who lived in the DR for four years, so I too spoke/speak from experience.] It's a bit easier for them to so speak so encouragingly because they have yet to actually live it.

Maybe not what you want to hear, so you probably won't listen. But even Robert, who has managed to make a "go" of it, tried (gently, diplomatically) to tell you that what most of what the "doomsters" say is true. [Read between the lines of his post.] I highly recommend having that beer with Rob. But I doubt you'll fully understand what people are trying to tell you until you live it. So best of luck! I mean that. Maybe you'll be one of those hardy, (very) patient, flexible souls who not only make it there, but thrive on it.

Best Regards,
Keith

 

[andy a]

It is clear to me ...

that you are not actually referring to just "moving" but "escaping".

It is inconceivable that your family would be better off in the DR. Too many services are lacking that you have in the UK, and there are too many added risks and inconveniences.

Even if your wife be persuaded to go, what about your small child? Are you prepared to condemn it to the Dominican "education" system? What about the "noise pollution" (to us; nirvana to Dominicans)? I have no doubt that Dominicans' sense of hearing is severely damaged in childhood (or even before). Is that what you wish for your child? What about the contaminated water? Not even bottled water in the DR (and nothing else either) can be trusted. Do you want your child to grow up on that? The list goes on and on.

If the child is a girl, there are added hazards, some of them not obvious to the non-visitor. For example, perhaps most girls in the DR have a very large ugly burn scar on the leg from having it trapped there undereath a "flopped" motorcycle. Probably many boys have them too, but at least they usually wear long pants which both help protect the leg and hide the scar. Do you think you'd be able to keep your daughter off motorcycles? The passenger seat is the most vulnerable for such burns.

Are you sure that you can stand endless weather like you had in the UK for a few days recently?

Are you prepared to reinvent the wheel over and over on things like electricity, running (and hot) water, banking, mail, security, etc.?

I therefore "kindly" suggest that you go to the DR alone until you sort things out.

Best wishes too.

 

[christremain]

er ....hang on

Keith

I have NEVER said anything about the advice given or poo pooed the 'doomsters' as you put it for their obvious experience.

Perhaps you missed the sentiment of my message.

I - not anyone else - feel that I want to come to the DR - initially for 12 months. See how it is - chill out - spend some fantastic time with my family and take what comes.

IF we don't like it I have a plan B, C, D, all the way back to Z (home again!)

By my estimates - if that day were to arrive it will be a few years hence and we will still have at least half of our capital to use as a cushion/deposit etc.

We are both very experienced in our fields and feel we would be employable very quickly were we to return.

So, what is there to loose ?
Some of our capital - OK.
Some of our time - OK.
Some of our naivety - OK.

My wife and I both agree that we don't want to be 60+ sitting in a nice house with x amount tied up in equity doing no one any good saying 'if only we had done.........'

I am sure we all have friends / relatives that have done that / or died before having the chance to see things through. I don't want to add to that number.

I am with Nick. PLEASE warn us of the dangers and pitfalls that all your experience can give us and I for one will head your advice well. I have been in contact with others over the last month or so that have sent me e-mails full of advice that I am using as experience. No ?roses around the window box? viewpoint. Straight talking. People that are also living in the mix.

I would like to thank them for their help and advice - it has been invaluable. As I said - I don't think I am too much a fool.

So, please do not think I am just side swiping everything that is being said - far from it. But hey, don't poo poo me for wanting to change my life for the better - for me and my family - DR or anywhere else. The truth of the matter is there is risk in anything and everything you do - wherever it is.

In the UK there are so many threats of redundancies - downsizing - layoffs. Property market is stagnant if not in decline (especially in the South East where we are) we could see our capital disappear - jobs disappear and standard of life diminish. So - now. Faced with the comparison - what would you choose.

As I have said, the plan is - get there - test the water to 6 months.
Like it - stay another 6 months and evaluate at the year marker.
Don't like it - sod off somewhere else and try again - big world out there.

I have 4 years till my son starts primary school.

If we end up back - I'm hoping he will be bi-lingual, swim like a fish and be very adaptable.

Come on - think of the positives - if you concentrated on the negatives all the time you wouldn't get out of bloody bed.

Know what you want from life and go get it.

If you toured all the cemetarys in all the world I bet you would't find a gravestone that says 'I wish I'd have worked a bit harder'


Regards

Chris (feet in the real world) Tremain

 

[nickkieswetter]

My apologies Miss/Ms/Mrs Chris!!

Ok, Thanks Chris Tremain for eloquently explaining your view point wich is the one that I share also.

I would like to offer my sincerest of apologies to Keith and anyone else who read my last post and took it in a way that it was not intended. I apologise for my unfortunate choice of words and perhaps also the sentance structure which, upon reflection was not perhaps the best way to make my point. In my defence however I am at work today and I wrote that post whilst on the phone and with a perplexed looking salesperson sat in front of me looking for guidance on life the universe and everything!!!!

So I hope that clears things up a little.

Like Chris Tremain I also have a number of exit strategies worked out, and whilst I have been pretty forthcoming on here about my financial position it would be suffice to say that should I return to the UK with NOTHING I would be far from broke.

To respond to andy a's comments I would like to say that i could easily write peice of doom and gloom about raising a child in the UK (drugs, Crime, Education, Health, Cost of living etc) only I think it would depress me so much that I would have to get on the next plane out of here instead of waiting until the end of the year! I appreciate your closing comments andy but I think your point is one of the glass being half empty.

Btw. I do consider myself to be one of those hardy people who thrive on the challenges that life throws at them, I always have. But to be quite honest there are no challenges here for me anymore. All that I set out to acheive in my life i have done and much much more in ten years..... so now I need to move on!

Regards

Nick Kieswetter

 

[andy a]

nickkieswetter,

It was you to whom I was primarily addressing my post, as you apparently gathered.

Why the DR with its endemic problems? The problems will not go away in your lifetime, since the means for correcting them haven't begun to be addressed and the will to change doesn't exist.

Since escaping the UK seems to be the objective, why not go to a place that has a 1st world infrastructure but 3rd world prices, or at least close to it? Where I have in mind even modeled itself on England, at least before the Falklands war. According to the recent Economist survey, Argentina is among the 5 least expensive places in the world right now. It won't last. It regularly oscillates between 1st and 3rd world on a 15-20 year cycle. An empire established there now will likely be worth several times as much within a few years.

Another choice would be Costa Rica.

Perhaps if you could explain what it is about the DR in particular that makes you want to move there ...

 

[gringo in dr]

Moving to another country, with different cultures, language, customs and foods is not as easy as it seems.

Anyone that has been doing it for awhile knows that's true. I'm not trying to down play that.

With that said, if you can't live in the DR with $800 (30,000 pesos) per month then you aren't looking hard enough. I'm not talking about living in some ghetto either. I have plenty of friends that pay 5,000 - 8,000 pesos per month for 1 - 3 bedroom apartments. Some of them fully furnished.

The bottom line is, it will take you 6 months to 1 year to get settled in. Of course everything you have in your home country didn't just show up overnight either.

Some people just get homesick. They can't take the "differences". Vacationing somewhere and living there are two very different things.

 

[nickkieswetter]

Andy A answers to your questions

Firstly, it seems to me that there are many problems living here in the UK (and I speak with great authority on this subject) just like many people have stated previously, it is not wise to rely upon information about the DR from the web because it s out of date and that the info that people give here is accurate, well so is the case when I talk about the issues facing life in the UK. I have found that in all things in life there is a good and a bad side and almost invariably for every positive there is a negative or vice-versa.
After reading numerous posts here on the DR1 board I think to say placing a child in the DR education system would be to 'condemn' that child is a little harsh and I would be interested to hear fresh opinions on this matter from other users?
For the record my child is a boy and hopefully will grow up to have the same resilience and resourcefulness that I have found evident in myself (if nothing else I think in years to come the DR chica's are going to like him a lot!)
You further ask if we could stand the weather? Not only can we stand it but it is one of the considerations that have positively urged us towards our move! I love the sun and absolutely hate the cold, being fairly dark skinned I don?t burn and on my numerous trips to warmer locales I have found that my family and I adapted very quickly.
Am I prepared to 'reinvent the wheel over and over'? Andy if I didn?t think that I was going to need to do this I don?t think I would be making the move! I thrive on a challenge and this is one of the reasons I am leaving the UK (hence why I would not consider somewhere modelled on the UK like Argentina) If I wanted to go somewhere like here.... I WOULDN?T GO! I think that you have misunderstood me completely and anyone else's motivations for emigrating if you think that people want more of the same, surely if like the status quo then stay where you are!
As for Costa-Rica I must admit that I have not had the pleasure of visiting this country, but then again there are many countries that I have never seen, I am sure there are even countries that I have never heard of! but I don?t have the luxury of viewing them all before making a decision like this so I guess I will just have to consider myself lucky enough to have found a place in this world that, at least on the outset, appears to provide most of what I want.

I hope that this answers most of your questions and I hope that you can gain from the text the answer to your question 'Why the DR?' any further comments and questions are of course more than welcome.

Hey Gringo!

Thanks for the positive and direct feedback, I appreciate the 'straight to the point' answer you provided. Just for the record though I still have half the people saying you can live on 30-40,000 pesos and the other half saying no-way! Where will the balance lay in the end!?!?!? (Just a thought perhaps different people just have different expectations I would say that there is no-way you could live a comfortable life in the UK on less than ?30,000 GBP a year, however the majority of the population do...I will consider further)

Regards

Nick