Africa,DR , Haiti and Pena Gomez

O

Onions and carrots

Guest
What I am about to say is not intended as racist.Its not intended as a joke but as a serious discussion on an extremely delicate subject. Its intent is to talk a little about something peculiar within the DR and Haiti.

This is another interesting nuance about the DR and Haiti.Its funny how so many Dominicans revile, complain and wish death upon their neighbor.Yet the vast majority of Dominicans have haitian blood.Its also funny how if you ask most Dominicans what they are, they will minimize their African heritage which is more predominant than their Spanish influence.

The DR is a mulatto country yet the word mulatto is in itself trying to hide their African reality.Why is this?

I remember once I was with my grandfather in Boca Chica.The locals thought we were tourists cause we are white.I'm not saying white by Dominican standards which is a whole thread to itself but by European standards.Of course when we opened our mouths they said " A peo ellos son cibaenos."This was the first time I came into contact with purely black Dominicans.While we were talking about directions ,one of the guys cedula(I.D. card) fell on the floor and I picked it up.This guy was clearly of African origin yet his card said Indian.My gramps explained to me that most people in the DR have that designation.
Why is there this desire to repress their African origin? Its plainly obvious to all that the DR is more African than Spanish.

A guy like Pena Gomez who was of African extraction yet was ridiculed as such by people who in themselves are black though of a lighter shade.Most people downplay this side.

Amongst latinos there is a joke that seems to be offensive.There are 3 things that will never occur.1 ACuban that doesn't talk split 2A Puertorican that works 3A white Dominican
Offensive as it seems it tells you the perception that people have of the DR which is true.

School education minimizes this. It goes so far to state an erroneous fact that the ancestors of the DR people were the Taino Indians.All of this in an effort to extricate the truth that the present day people are descendants of African slaves with minimal Spanish blood mingled in them.

What I am about to offer is a simplistic solution to complex cultural and linguistic problems.

1) Dominicans must realize their true origin as descendants of Haitians and Africans.This would be accomplished by changing the school curriculum and gov't intervention with the help of the media.

2)They must understand they have much more in common with their neighbor than with Spain or Latin America.

3)Using this foundation, begin a process towards national reconciliation which would strenghten both countries.This would be based on understanding and not on suscipicion.

4)Begin a process of unification between both sides and hopefully end up one day as one island nation with one common gov't and economy.

This was Pena Gomez's dream and it was a beautiful idea.That two groups of people who have much more in common could share instead of hate.It truly saddens me that his life was cut short

Being cut short by that cancerous demon.Being cut short by repulsive rascist elements within the DR that ridiculed this genius for his skin color.These same morons not realizing they are of the same stock.

I know with total certainty as the world desires to become closer in every sense of the word that Pena Gomez dream will one day become a reality.
 
S

Squat

Guest
Well, for about 30 years, Dr was occupied by Haitians, which might explain as well, the african part of the dominicans... But I insist on the fact than dominican culture is closer to venezuela's than to Haiti... I live in DR and travel to Haiti very often, speak creole and spanish fluently, and let me tell you, it ain't the same culture... Now they have common ground, like brujeria and voodoo, cockfights, music... Ok, it's a mix...
By the way, I never was a big fan of Pena Gomez...
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
How can you say that? They share the same island. They must find a way to become closer.If they don't in the future it will create serious problems for the DR.Assimilation is beautiful. I know it seems far-fetched but as Pena Gomez stated and he cited Dr. King's words" I have a dream......"The DR has the incredible ability to absorb and mix freely the races and origins.If Hispaniola wre one people it would be for the betterment of all.Venezuela is far and away.Besides the DR is more African than Spanish.
 
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Maria Obetsanov

Guest
If you have any conections among the Alvarez, you will find out the Pena comez is a Haitian, I got this information from my mother who used to have a closed relationship with them before pena-gomez became involved in the public arena. This was created to place one that appears to have no connections with them in a powerful position.
You can also ask, why did Trujillo tried to kill Pena Gomez? He was accused of theft, and escaped by the skin of his teeth, go ask an old man called Comandante as you enter Los Alcarizos In Santo Domingo the small pullperia.
 
O

Onions and carrots

Guest
That doesn't change the facts. Despite being hated by people who were different than himself,he was able to accomplish what others will never do.
Besides he wanted unity amongst all and not divisiveness.

You know something.I could only state this on an open forum like this cause this would get me stoned in many parts of the DR.
 
J

Joachim

Guest
Then there are the Dominicans who say that their family has German Scandinavian blood.

I once had a Dominican woman show me a picture of her grandfather, a black and white photo, where she told me that her grandfather had blue eyes. Very hard to tell from a black and white photo.
 
S

Squat

Guest
I wish to state that dominican culture is much closer to the one from Puerto Rico or Cuba, than the one from Haiti. I don't say that with racism, and I, too, would think the idea of one Hispaniola would be great, but I think it wouldn't be at the advantages of the dominicans... I say that with all respect for Haiti, which I know pretty good. It's ok to admit and cultivate one's african roots, but it is a better goal to be an efficient country... And believe me, the african model isn't appropriate for the DR... Here in the DR, i have haitian friends and employees, and I try to make their life easier... I also try my best to influence dominicans not to view haitians as "second-class citizens", but the more I travel thru Haiti, the more I see that the people themselves have destroy their own land, which used to be really nice and fertile in the french days... And the worst is that so far no one has got a solution for Haiti, because the people are so ignorant and reproduce so fast, they go on destroying their environment so fast, and to build houses in slums so close to one another it's not human ! Now they have to import their charcoal from DR as a consequence of burning down all the trees, deforastation is a tragedy there, and they also fish out their sea-shore...
Let DR see further than that, and look to its latin part, let DR be educated, reforested, with a decent agriculture, a good tourism, a birth control...
Let the DR look up to Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Mexico (even Cuba...)...
Let the DR be different from its closest neighbour, so that its closest neighbour can beneficiate from the progress in DR...
Pena Gomez is dead...
 
R

Ram

Guest
Maybe the problem is that you or your grand father don't know about the Dominican culture. When a dominican states in a Cedula (ID) that he is Indian, it doesn;t mean that he's indian (native american indian, or indu) it means that the color of his skin aproaches to the color of the indian people.
 
T

Tom F.

Guest
I read that it was a parent or grandparent that was born in Haiti but Pena Gomez was born in the DR. This isn't true?
 
T

Tom F.

Guest
I think more and more Dominicans are thinking along those lines now that he is gone. He was the President of the Socialist Democrats internationally at one time and if you listen to some of his speeches in the 60's they are incredible. I am always amazed at how 65-85+ of the population vote for left since 1978 and yet no policitical party actually implements populist policies.
 
T

Tom F.

Guest
The forest in the DR have been devestated by Dominicans and foreign companies doing business in the DR since the 1920's. I don't remember the statistics but the DR was warned in the 1950's to do something about deforestation and until Leonel was elected virtually nothing was done. Ask the old timers about how big any river or creek was when they were childen and all talk about how much they have been reduced. The DR is far from taking care of their own problems in reference to the forests and water supplies let alone near the border. Let's home Hipolito gives enforcement efforts strong and continues to support the tree planting programs in the mountains.
 
B

Bob Saunders

Guest
Peo is Fart from the Cibao, My wife's cedula used to say light indian on it( this only refered to skin color). This was in the past, no anymore. In Jarabacoa there seems to be many dominicans with very light hair and blue eyes, of all ages, so they are not all the offspring of scaninavian tourists. My wife who is normally clearheaded and logical tells me that Haitianos smell bad.

It is clear that the features of the majority of Domminicans have an African cast. This doesn't mean they have to live by or follow the habits of that unfortunate continent. The Dominican goverment certainly does have enough problems to solve witout having to deal with Haitians but the reality is that there are a huge amount of Haitians throughout the DR. These human cranes are used by many wealthy Dominicans to become wealthier. Yes the international community should help Haitians to return to their country by making Haiti a better place to live but this remains unlikely in the near future given the present goverment in Port au Prince.
 
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Rafael

Guest
With all due respect OandC

Maybe I'm just ignorant or racist. Maybe I don't see the world through rose-colored glasses. But, I almost totally disagree with you.

Let me start by telling you a [true] story about a Haitian businessman near my residence. This man was once telling me how much he hates Dominicans. He was also telling me about how THREE Dominicans put together would never match the physical and intellectual capabilities of ONE Haitian. Quite frankly, I don't care how superior he feels just as long as he stays the hell out of my country and this dream unification never happens.

Let me also tell you about my wife. I call her my "rubia cibae?a". As much as I look, I do not see anything about her even remotely resembling African or Haitian. Looking at her family, I come to one conclusion: they are, for all intents and purposes, caucasian.

I, myself, am dark in the summer and light in the winter, but never white or black. Always in between. I would agree that most (NOT ALL) Dominicans have some kind of African features; however, keep in mind, we speak Spanish (not French or Creole), our side of the island was colonized by the Spanish (not the French), our national music is merengue and bachata (not whatever they play and sing in the west), and, most importantly, WE ARE DOMINICANS. As much of their blood as you claim we have, WE ARE NOT THEM.

If and when there is ever a unification of the two countries, I would wish to be dead and my children and grandchildren consider themselves Americans to the core, never to learn about (then non-existent) Dominican culture. In other words, let them be assimilated to the point that they decide to change their last names to something more Anglo-sounding.

Call me racist, call me whatever you want. I wish to return to my island one day (maybe to put into action some ideas I have about how to contribute to the progress). I do not wish to return to find it occupied by Haitians. Like Squat, I never did care much for Pe?a Gomez or for what he accomplished.

May God have mercy on my soul. May He also never allow this unification to happen.

Rafael F. Diaz (<-- see, Diaz is a Spanish name)
 
&

&quot;The Tourist Watcher&quot;

Guest
Re: Pe?a Gomez was part of the DR-Haiti unificatio

For those who doubt it, Jose Francisco Pe?a Gomez, that leader that has been so exalted and even glorified with the name of our airport, fought until his last breath to become President so that he could complete his last wish, to unify Haiti and Dominican Republic.
However, wiser heads prevailed and the curse of Trujillo now passed on to Balaguer put a spell on Pe?a Gomez and now he is gone. Balaguer used his own Dominican Magic to neutralize Pe?a Gomez Black Magic, which he practiced often, including as seen in witchcraft public videos seen all over the country, where he was "montandose" and trying to shake himself from Balaguer magic.

But my friends, Balaguer as bad a boy as he is, has performed a great service to this nation,. He killed the last attemp to haitianize Santo Domingo. And as long as he lives, and I hope the old man lives to 125 years, he will fight this cowardly attempt to destroy our nationality.

Juan Bosch also tried hard to eliminate the Haitian problem and that is one of the reasons he left the PRD party, because Pe?a Gomez was forcing ths issue.

Now we have a more dangerous group of people than Pe?a Gomez and these are treacherous businessmen and border patrol officers who are selling their souls for money along the border with Haiti, bringing in truckfulls of Haitians hidden in Construction trucks with plastic covers to deliver them directly to Engineers building hi rises. The evidence can be seen. All you have to do is go to any construction site of any hi rise and the majority of workers are illegal Haitians. We also have a new profitable business in Santo Domingo, The "Haitian Beggar Pimp". These are Dominican entrepeneurs who bring truckfuls of dilapidated poor women and kidnapped haitian babies and they post these combinations of women and babies in the major intersections of Lincoln, Churchill, Kennedy,Sarasota, and Romulo betancourt Avenues to beg. If you pay close attention these women report periodically to a "pimp supervisor" who works for the entrepeneur and collects the money. The slaves get food and protection from the police and inmigration not to be deported.

Dominicans being generous and fooled by the trick, give thousands of pesos to these unhealthy people, promoting innocently crimes like kidnapping, child molestation and abuse, deprivation of education to children, and malnutrition, not to mention the indignity suffered by their race.
 
T

Tom F.

Guest
Re: Pe?a Gomez was part of the DR-Haiti unificatio

That is a heart breaking situation and the quest for money makes people do unbelievable things. Pena Gomez should not be blamed for Dominican businessman taking advantage of a situation. These people should be jailed. It has been reported enough times in the newspapers yet continues.
 
A

Abraham

Guest
In the Bravenet forum I heard a guy say that we should look into out Haitian ansestors, my God, what the hell is he talking about.

He went on babbling about how we dominicans look down on Haiti, tell me, is Haiti an example to follow?
 
R

Rafael

Guest
Re: Pe?a Gomez was part of the DR-Haiti unificatio

It's not only that (what TW says). It's also that a lot of Dominicans lose out on what is theirs. This country really needs people with ideas- all the problems are pointed out clearly. We need people with solutions. I have written down on paper many possible solutions to a small portion of these problems. Unfourtunately, I am neither in the right place, the right position nor is it the right time to try to implement these ideas.
It is also very important to remember that uniting the two countries is not going to help the situation, period!!!

Rafael.
 
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Rafael

Guest
Sorry, forgot to add.

This is truly an interesting account on Pe?a Gomez. Thanks for sharing the info TW. Let's hope that wiser heads do prevail. Allowing for his dream (my, and I'm sure your's also, worst nightmare) may cause a stir such that hasn't been seen in this region for a long time.
The US wishes to wash its hand on the matter of Haiti and DR; however, the result may be (let us hope not although it may need to come down to that) a carribbean Middle East situation.

Rafael.
 
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Maria Obetsanov

Guest
Look on the net and find a vio of Hati. Who can afford to saddle their economy with this this 197th ratting in poverty and mix the people that don't even want to know each other. The problems with Hati, and dominican republic stems from colonial days The Dominican that where beheaded them by the invaders, live in the memories. One of my gradmothers family had a well where they hid using ladder into a tunel on a side wall and life there for days with sixteen family members. these are very good reasons. +poverty to the mix.
 
J

jlo

Guest
Hey Tom you just contradicted yourself
because than you would realise that if
us dominicans cant take care of ourselves
how do you figure we can take Haiti in our backs
y does not the US do it? if they can't what makes
you think we can....Throwing the Haitians to us is
not the best solution and believe we are a new generation
of dominicans proud of our culture that would rather die
fighting beforre this was to happend...I have nothing against
Haitian as long as they would help us protect what we live and
die for and if they don't even protect their own what makes you
think they are gonna protect ours ? jlo