Aggressive Beach Harassment in Cabarete

[frank12]

Big Dan,

I guess i overlooked some important business principles from Wharton school of Economics. I apologize. I'm an Idiot. Apperently, these business principles would work down here 100% of the time; and i did not know that.

Now, let's take a look at what goes on everyday and see how your business principles apply here.

1.) Again, let me just point out that i think the managers do a pretty good job keeping out the vendors. But as i pointed out to you, it's very, very time consuming and energy draining situation. I don't know what's hard to understand about this Big Dan, but i'll reiterate it, the vendors do not come inside if they see us. However, if we run up to the office or go to the bathroom, they will try to come in and make a quick sale. The employees don't want to get involved becuase Cabarete is a small town and everyone knows everyone, and many of the vendors children go to school with the employees children. not to mention, some of these vendors are neighbors to our own employees. They don't want to get involved and i don't blame them.

2.) What do you suggest we do when a family from Indiana call into our restaurant the fruit lady because they want to see what a papaya looks like? Then, they want to buy the papaya from her. For them, it's a caribbean experience, it's welcoming, its conducive to business, and its a win-win situation for everyone. should i throw her out?

3.) What do you suggest we do when a group of men call into the restaurant two or three shoe-shine boys (they travel in groups here) and ask the the boys to shine their sandals and then sit with them and help them eat their pizza or hamburger or whatever. Again, this is part of someone's vacation, and these people are trying to help out the kids. they want to feed them and put shoes on their feet, and sometimes it's families from the midwest or scandinavia, and they've never seen poverty up close, in their face. Naturally, they want to help. They want to invite the kids inside--they're just kids. Should i throw them out, and throw out the customer as well for inviting them inside?

4.) a family from Toronto is sitting at a table, and they see "Anna" walking buy with her foot twisted backwards as a result of some horrific accident. they want to help Anna out; they call her inside and hand her some change. Anna thanks them and then leaves. should i have stopped Anna at the door and thrown her out? After all, she knows she shouldn't be inside but, at the same time, someone has specifically called her inside.

5.) A group of guys from Washington DC are sitting at the bar, the're drinking and having fun and then they see two Haitian boys walk by with candy on their heads (an assortment of brown sugar and almonds and coconut that they carry in plastic tubs). they call the Haitians inside becuase, being African American or simply human, they have never seen Haitians walking barefoot in the hot sun with dirty clothes, obviously thirsty, and in need of some help; they invite the Haitians inside to sit at the bar and drink a nice cold coca-cola; then they offer them their food. everyone goes away with a different perspective of humanity. what would you suggest, that i stop the kids from coming in?

I got a lot more examples but i'll save them for later because i got to go now.

Big Dan, i'm sure you're a really smart guy, but you're trying to make things black and white, and unfortunately, anytime you're dealing with humans, nothing is black and white.

PS. I'll be back with more examples later.
Sincerely, Frank

consider myself a fairly good listener. Could you tell me, please, where I have asked a question here and "Didn't listen" to the answer?


Yes, read back to every reply you have written when anyone in this thread provided a possible solution to the security problem you have at Jose O'Shays. You have deflected every single one of them.


I feel as if i've addressed nearly every suggestion made here, and may i add, there have been some good suggestions. However, some have been slightly impractical, some have been slightly unrealistic (The one you suggested where i hire vendors to police their friends i felt was unrealistic and i think i did a good job pointing out why). I also think i've addressed the complex issues fairly well. Maybe to make things easier, write down a list of suggestions and give me the opportunity to answer them one by one.


I believe that you should again read every recommendation provided to you, and then take action on them. You cannot possibly know which solutions work or don't work until you make them standard practice, and then you modify them after they are in place. Every good manager knows this. Failure to take action is an action of your support for vendors invading your business and bothering your customers. It is clear cut.


I've been here a long, long time (i went to high school here from 1978-1980) so, perhaps naively, i feel as if i'm pretty familiar with the siituation here, and trust me, it's not as easy as simply hiring a bunch of security guards at $1500 a pop a day and then arming them and then hoping that their personalities will mesh well with the vendors, drunks, tourists, children, sports fanatics, mentally unbalanced, and the regular clientel.




Yes, it is as easy as that. Feasability is another issue. Analysis of revenue vs. expenses is an ongoing part of every successful business. Every good manager knows that too. It costs money to fix this problem. Your customers by and large are from the first world. This Stockholm Syndrome of yours is bad for business. Whose side are you on?


I don't think it's as easy as you seem to think it is, although i respect your opinion, it's more complex than simply throwing everyone out--licensed vendors, cd salesmen, cigar salesmen, vitamen salemen, shoe shine boys, mentally handicapped locals, physically handicapped locals, hair braiders, tourist guide salesmen, fruit ladies, massage girls, prostitutes, and the list goes on and on...



Yes, it is is as easy as that. Paralysis does nothing. Developing a plan and taking action is the right direction. You have talked yourself out of any plausible action you could possibly take. You are paralyzed.

Strong arming these people trying to make a living is not the answer; throwing them out while a tourist is trying to get a shoe-shine from a 8yr old haitian kid is not the answer; throwing out the crippled fruit lady while a customer from Sweden or Norway who has never seen Papaya before and has asked her in to bring one up to their table for a sale is going to back-fire in our face in a really big way. Remember, many tourists here call the shoe shine boys into the restaurant and feed them pizza and burgers etc. Are we to throw them out and tell the customer he or she is wrong in doing this!? Are we to throw out the crippled fruit lady when someone asks her to cut some fruit up for them because, like any human being, they want to help her out. And do you think having a bunch of bouncers around--most of them illiterate and from the countryside--who do not understand many customer relationship concepts is going to somehow play out well in front of kids and families from Ohio and Nebraska and Sweden--where there is no poverty.

Uneducated people only understand strength through force; they respect it, and most expect it. Vendors see your business as an easy target because you do not adequately enforce your own policy. There is poverty everywhere in the world. Yes, you throw people out who are disrupting your business and causing problems for your customers. This is not rocket science, but Stockholm Syndrome speaks loudly in the above paragraph. Maybe you have been there too long.

I respect your opinon, i really do, but it's a lot more complex than i think your trying to make it out as, and requires a lot more finesse and a balance-act than i think many people here realize.



There is really no complexity in this at all. You just don't have the courage, experience or leadership skills necesary to implement solutions, or maybe the business doesn't have (or doesn't want to spend) the revenue to tackle the problem.

As long as you pat yourself and the other manager's on the back with one hand, and wave off potential solutions with the other hand, vendors will continue to poke you in the gut. You must like that.

This definitely a management problem. You are too busy worrying about the whole of Cabarete to solve internal business problems. You will eventually quit; the writing is on the wall.

 

[Normal]

Frank,

I think I have to agree with Big Dan on this one. You complain time and again that you can't keep them out yet at every turn you indirectly invite them in. Tell your customers in no uncertain terms that they must not invite the vendors into the restaurant and also hire a full-time person to keep them out.

It is simple. You just can't see it.

Right now you are playing by their rules... it's up to you to make the rules and force them to comply. You seem to have this incessant need to be accommodating to the vendors. You owe them nothing!

 

[VJS]

Big Dan, i'm sure you're a really smart guy, but you're trying to make things black and white, and unfortunately, anytime you're dealing with humans, nothing is black and white.

Frank, I respect what you are trying to do but here is another point of view: if I am sitting in a restaurant under 'Western management' (such as yours) I have certain expectations, among them - I don't want to have to interact with vendors walking up to tables, even though people at the next table explicitly invite them. For every group of guys from Washington inviting Haitian boys or crippled Anna up to their table there are likely 4 groups of people at adjacent tables resenting that and that's hurting your business. If someone wants to help vendors, they are free to move to the beach area of the restaurant and knock themselves out, or invite them to their hotel, whatever...

I have enough harassment just walking up to the restaurant and want to have peace and quiet while having a meal, and if the restaurant allows them walking around tables, I am a lot less likely to come there again. Post full time guards at both entrances and you will probably get more business.

 

[Big Dan]

"the vendors do not come inside if they see us"

Security is an extension of management. They are your eyes when yours are occupied with people who indirectly pay your salary.

The employees don't want to get involved

Clear example of poor leadership from management.

What do you suggest we do when a family from Indiana call into our restaurant the fruit lady because they want to see what a papaya looks like?

You tell them that vendors are not allowed inside your establishment. Go outside and get a papaya to show the people who indirectly pay your salary what a papaya looks like.

What do you suggest we do when a group of men call into the restaurant two or three shoe-shine boys (they travel in groups here) and ask the the boys to shine their sandals

. If a client brings someone in who takes a seat and generates revenue for your business, without their own vendor business getting in the way, you seat them and treat them like someone who indirectly pays your salary. If someone calls someone over for a shoe shine, you throw out the shoe shine boy, and you tell them that vendors are not allowed inside your establishment.

They want to invite the kids inside--they're just kids. Should i throw them out

Yes, throw them out. And if you don't see them, security will throw them out.

a family from Toronto is sitting at a table, and they see "Anna" walking buy with her foot twisted backwards as a result of some horrific accident. they want to help Anna out; they call her inside and hand her some change. Anna thanks them and then leaves. should i have stopped Anna at the door and thrown her out?

You tell the family from Toronto, who are indirectly paying your salary, that Anna is not allowed inside your establishment.

A group of guys from Washington DC are sitting at the bar, the're drinking and having fun and then they see two Haitian boys walk by with candy on their heads (an assortment of brown sugar and almonds and coconut that they carry in plastic tubs). they call the Haitians inside... what would you suggest, that i stop the kids from coming in?

Yes. If you had security at the entrances (one action you have so far failed to implement, the hiring of permenant security) they would not be allowed inside to begin with, no matter who calls them in, and you explain to the customer, who indirectly pays your salary, that restaurant policy does not allow outside vendors inside. Stock your bar with fresh fruit and nuts for sale. Customers can buy them from your business. Or, since you are in a customer service business, go outside of your business and buy the items from the vendor.

Every example you have given has the same answer. Bring more scenarios, and I'll give you more answers to ignore.

 

[frank12]

Thanks VJS & Normal,

I appreciate your responses and input and i agree with both of you guys, including Big Dan as well--up to a certain point. all of you have excellent points! I guess what i'm trying to convey here is that, it's not as black and white as it may seem on the surface.

If no one calls the fruit lady or shoe-shine boys inside, they know they are not allowed to be inside and if they see us around they will stay out. The Jewelry vendors are not allowed inside under any circumstances, period--whether they are called inside or not. Neither is the scam artists--of which their are numerous--but in particular anyone asking for money for a non-existent charity organization for drug addicted children or some guys selling pencils for another charity organziation that doesn't exist--we don't allow anyone inside asking for money. period. and apperently we've been effective with this group of people because they never come inside and instead concentrate their efforts on the beach with tourists sitting out there.

if someone calls the fruit lady inside, we allow this because obviously the customer wants fresh fruit and they want to sit in the comfort of the shade of their inside table--often times witht their family--and they're not going to undertsand if it tell them to pick up all of their stuff and go outside in the hot sun and eat your fruit outside. would you understand this if you were down here on vacation? What sometimes happens, though, is that a table nearby will see fresh papaya and passion fruit and pineapple being cut up, and then they will call the fruit lady over to their table to cut some fruit up for them. i see this as a win-win situation becuase the customer--who is on vacation--has never experienced this before; they see it as an exotic, tropical, romantic, and overall caribbean experience that they've read about so often their whole lives.

The shoe-shine boys frequently get called inside. Why? because their small, little kids with dirty clothes and shoes that don't fit, and often times they're barefoot. I don't intervene when they get called inside because, the customers are just trying to throw some good will at these kids. these kids are often dirty, poor, barefoot, thirsty, and hungry. Fortunately, these kids are usually well behaved and will sit attentively at the table and eat their food and drink their cokes and then leave.

I forgot to point out for people who aren't familiar with Cabarete, many of the restaurants--including ours--have no doors. we're an open beach restaurant so, it's not as if people are walking into a restaurant with doors or walls. we have 40 feet of beach front directly in front of our tables and chairs. in other words, our restaurant is literally on the beach so anyone can come directly up to your table if you're not sitting further inside. we have no walls or doors for the frontside facing the beach or the backside facing the street.

Thanks Frank

 

[oriole100]

Big Dan. Why don't you make Big Frank an offer. I know you can run the rest. better. It will be easy money.

 

[Big Dan]

Shoo fly.

 

[Big Dan]

if someone calls the fruit lady inside, we allow this because obviously the customer wants fresh fruit and they want to sit in the comfort of the shade of their inside table--often times witht their family--and they're not going to undertsand if it tell them to pick up all of their stuff and go outside in the hot sun and eat your fruit outside

This is likely because you don't have fresh fruit on your menu, and it is not offered upon seating as an appetizer or a start to the family's outing at your establishment; however, it is your duty to inform families who watch unwashed fruit being cut and served to others by people who have very likely not washed their hands in quite some time, that the chance of foodborne illness is greater when buying from vendors.

Since you receive your salary indirectly from these customers, you should offer fresh cut, cold fruit at the tables inside, a menu item that generates revenue for your business, and explain that you only allow vendor sales at the outside tables.

because their small, little kids with dirty clothes and shoes that don't fit, and often times they're barefoot.

Since you should have a no vendor policy, explain to the customer that you do not allow vendors inside the business. The shoeshine boys are available on the beach, so offer your client the choice of moving outside to receive a shoe shine or wait until he is finished with his or her meal. If a customer walks in with a shoeshine boy and they sit down together, treat them as a customer who indirectly pays your salary. There are also hygiene issues to deal with when you allow people who are obviously not clean to enter your business.

You aren't in the heartstring pulling business.

It has already been said -- you don't know how much revenue you are missing because you do not enforce policy regarding vendors.

You have exceptions to every rule. Let me ask you .... is having an exception to every rule a rule?

 

[belmont]

I have been critical of Jose O"Shays business philosophy since the first time I ate there at least 7 or 8 years ago. As much as I don't like it, you can't argue with success. How many other businesses have maintained the vigor that they still display?

 

[Bronxboy]

How many other businesses have maintained the vigor that they still display?

Exactly!!!!

As per the OP's request, this one is a no brainer!!

See ya