- Thread starter Latino2002
- Start date
Air Dominicana
Latino.
Remember that Air Europa already had its airline in DR, in 1996 they created Air Santo Domingo, a local carrier with LET410, this project failed in 6 months or so.
In this case Air Europa may pass MAD PUJ route to its new friendly carrier Air Dominicana, but the reality will be the same, those flights will be theirs.
I'd like to know where they want to fly with B737-800, the only option is USA, but with Spirit, Delta and other competitors it is very difficult and those 2 planes will not make any profit. FLights to the Caribbean is another mad idea, remember what happened to Aeromar's flights to CCS and HAV.
I don't think that after all airlines who tried to fly here (Pan Am, Caribbean Star, Viva, Aerocontinente, Aeromar, Air Santo Domingo) passengers will trust so easy to this new carrier.
Air Dominicana will have a very difficult start, remember the global situation on airline market.
Remember that Air Europa already had its airline in DR, in 1996 they created Air Santo Domingo, a local carrier with LET410, this project failed in 6 months or so.
In this case Air Europa may pass MAD PUJ route to its new friendly carrier Air Dominicana, but the reality will be the same, those flights will be theirs.
I'd like to know where they want to fly with B737-800, the only option is USA, but with Spirit, Delta and other competitors it is very difficult and those 2 planes will not make any profit. FLights to the Caribbean is another mad idea, remember what happened to Aeromar's flights to CCS and HAV.
I don't think that after all airlines who tried to fly here (Pan Am, Caribbean Star, Viva, Aerocontinente, Aeromar, Air Santo Domingo) passengers will trust so easy to this new carrier.
Air Dominicana will have a very difficult start, remember the global situation on airline market.
Today the airline with several routes has no profits at all, you have to be a member of alliance to get connecting passengers, etc. To compete with AA and DL on routes with all their frequencies will be hard, to fly to Florida will bring losses only, to convience passengers in Europe to change Air France and Iberia for this carrier is impossible, to beat incredibly low prices by Air Comet and Air Europa on SDQ MAD flights is impossible too.
So I am wondering, what segment this airline wants to take?
10 Millions USD given by dominican government for this project is another source to make money, like it used to be with PEME, new subway and other endless projects paid by dominican taxpayers.
So I am wondering, what segment this airline wants to take?
10 Millions USD given by dominican government for this project is another source to make money, like it used to be with PEME, new subway and other endless projects paid by dominican taxpayers.
Well, American Airlines is seriously playing with the idea to create a mini-hub in SDQ. Flights to: THE CARIBBEAN.
The 737-800 and 767 of the new Air Dominicana can be used on a variety of routes. Latin American markets are hot with inbound tourism, e.g. Argentina, Chile, Brasil. COPA is REALLY expensive into SDQ and LAN CHILE gets only 1 flight a week from SCL, and huge demand. The new LAN ARGENTINA flights out of EZE are pretty full.
In SDQ, COPA has a virtual monopoly, and rates with COPA are outrageous. People who cannot fly to central america/latin america via USA/PR are left to the mercy of COPA and their awful on-board service.
If Air Dominicana could make code-share arrangements with Avianca or Grupo Taca, they might be able to feed traffic i/.from the respective networks in Central and South America. Also, there is no direct link into Mexico, and Mexicana uses seats on COPA. So code-share with Mexicana, Aeromexico or Azteca might be an option for route to Mexico.
The way is not to go alone, but to code-share, code-share, and code-share.
(Alliance membership is not an option at the moment, no alliance would accept a start-up).
The 737-800 and 767 of the new Air Dominicana can be used on a variety of routes. Latin American markets are hot with inbound tourism, e.g. Argentina, Chile, Brasil. COPA is REALLY expensive into SDQ and LAN CHILE gets only 1 flight a week from SCL, and huge demand. The new LAN ARGENTINA flights out of EZE are pretty full.
In SDQ, COPA has a virtual monopoly, and rates with COPA are outrageous. People who cannot fly to central america/latin america via USA/PR are left to the mercy of COPA and their awful on-board service.
If Air Dominicana could make code-share arrangements with Avianca or Grupo Taca, they might be able to feed traffic i/.from the respective networks in Central and South America. Also, there is no direct link into Mexico, and Mexicana uses seats on COPA. So code-share with Mexicana, Aeromexico or Azteca might be an option for route to Mexico.
The way is not to go alone, but to code-share, code-share, and code-share.
(Alliance membership is not an option at the moment, no alliance would accept a start-up).
Well, remember that nobody in Panama or elsewhere in Latin America will welcome this airline, I mean authorities, etc. Copa transport majority of passengers via PTY to other countries by their own flights, so there is no need to fly to PTY, also Continental will tell to Dominicana what to do, they won't other carriers in their route (SDQ PTY SDQ). Today Lasca offers cheap fares to LA from SDQ.
Charter flights are always sold for airlines in country of origin, this is how it works. Local touroperators support their carriers because their use them on other routes, touroperators who sell Dominicana in Argentina has agreemnets with LAN that they can not hire other carriers on that route.
Flights to MEX will cause financial losses, there is no demand for direct service, or if there is, it is only for 150-200 passengers per wkk maximum, so in this case only one flight per week will do it, but one frequency will not survive.
Dominicana decided to chose Air Europa as it major partner, this is the biggest mistake, of course private interes caused it, but this carrier has no possibilities to make something in Latin America, they are too far. Air Europa's model is not compatible with this project. Air Dominicana had to chose US carrier, today is the era of alliances, code share flights, etc.
Since this entire project is like PEME and other similar cases that took place here we'll see soon its results.
Airline with 2 planes has no profit, especially the new one from a country where many carries failed lately and there is a huge lack of confidence toward dominican airlines. The world is divided between low cost and terrible competition between sky mosnters, today this business around the world, exept Asia has no profit at all!!!!!
Charter flights are always sold for airlines in country of origin, this is how it works. Local touroperators support their carriers because their use them on other routes, touroperators who sell Dominicana in Argentina has agreemnets with LAN that they can not hire other carriers on that route.
Flights to MEX will cause financial losses, there is no demand for direct service, or if there is, it is only for 150-200 passengers per wkk maximum, so in this case only one flight per week will do it, but one frequency will not survive.
Dominicana decided to chose Air Europa as it major partner, this is the biggest mistake, of course private interes caused it, but this carrier has no possibilities to make something in Latin America, they are too far. Air Europa's model is not compatible with this project. Air Dominicana had to chose US carrier, today is the era of alliances, code share flights, etc.
Since this entire project is like PEME and other similar cases that took place here we'll see soon its results.
Airline with 2 planes has no profit, especially the new one from a country where many carries failed lately and there is a huge lack of confidence toward dominican airlines. The world is divided between low cost and terrible competition between sky mosnters, today this business around the world, exept Asia has no profit at all!!!!!
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Well, I don't think governments of Costa Rica, Colombia and Peru would object much into the new airline servicing their markets.
We have to realize that for intra-american flights (central and south america), each country, from Nicaragua or Guatemala to Chile has a wide selection of options, TACA/LACSA, AVIANCA, COPA, and many have LAN and LAN-subsidiaries, TAM and VARIG (do they still fly?).
If Air Dominicana code-shares with TACA/LACSA and AVIANCA, that may be the way to go. Again, I don't think Peru or Colombia would object to Air Dominicana flying, the power of COPA in those countries is not that big, and if local airlines (TACA/LACSA, AVIANCA) would pursue partnership with Air Dominicana, local authorieties would be even more compliant to grant landing rights. It's also important to notice Peru and Colombia are countries that do not require Dominicans to have visa to enter (as well as Chile, Argentina and Uruguay). Now we get into the reciprocity. LAN CHILE and LAN ARGENTINA have landing rights in the DR, so DR has same reciprocity rights to land in those countries. The famous Xth freedoms. There are quite a few Dominicans on every flight to/from Argentina. DR-CAFTA may also provide for some liberation of air traffic (not sure about that) so Central America might be covered.
Mexico route might support more passangers, if the contracts are made to code-share. It depends on the elesticity of demand to pricing, would need investigation and reserach. If the demand is elastic, operating on a low-cost basis might attract traffic from Mexicans vacationing in the DR.
The next question is whether to operate full-service or low cost. Low cost is NOT that sandwich you get on board. After all, the cost of on-board refreshment is not more than 10USD per passanger on the average for a short-haul flight. It's the operations, handling, etc. that makes the airline "low cost', not the food. So Air Dominicana CAN be low cost low-fare airline, and compete with COPA.
Take this route network:
MEX, BOG, LIM, EZE, MIA, JFK, they might be able to create a "mini-hub" with the help of their code-share partners.
Also I don't subscribe to the idea "all before me failed, I am doomed to failed". In my country, in Europe, up to about 4 years ago, there were very few flighst from local airports (because other country's airports were so close by and were MAJOR airports). Several startups failed, and several got-by with problems and financial distress, then came THAT low cost airline and made a revolution. Local traffic was, obviosly, price-sensitive with high elasticity of demand, so low-cost offer attracted severalfold number of passangers than before. Now THAT low cost airline is among the ones very successful low-cost airlines. And they offer sandwich and they offer free drinks.
We have to realize that for intra-american flights (central and south america), each country, from Nicaragua or Guatemala to Chile has a wide selection of options, TACA/LACSA, AVIANCA, COPA, and many have LAN and LAN-subsidiaries, TAM and VARIG (do they still fly?).
If Air Dominicana code-shares with TACA/LACSA and AVIANCA, that may be the way to go. Again, I don't think Peru or Colombia would object to Air Dominicana flying, the power of COPA in those countries is not that big, and if local airlines (TACA/LACSA, AVIANCA) would pursue partnership with Air Dominicana, local authorieties would be even more compliant to grant landing rights. It's also important to notice Peru and Colombia are countries that do not require Dominicans to have visa to enter (as well as Chile, Argentina and Uruguay). Now we get into the reciprocity. LAN CHILE and LAN ARGENTINA have landing rights in the DR, so DR has same reciprocity rights to land in those countries. The famous Xth freedoms. There are quite a few Dominicans on every flight to/from Argentina. DR-CAFTA may also provide for some liberation of air traffic (not sure about that) so Central America might be covered.
Mexico route might support more passangers, if the contracts are made to code-share. It depends on the elesticity of demand to pricing, would need investigation and reserach. If the demand is elastic, operating on a low-cost basis might attract traffic from Mexicans vacationing in the DR.
The next question is whether to operate full-service or low cost. Low cost is NOT that sandwich you get on board. After all, the cost of on-board refreshment is not more than 10USD per passanger on the average for a short-haul flight. It's the operations, handling, etc. that makes the airline "low cost', not the food. So Air Dominicana CAN be low cost low-fare airline, and compete with COPA.
Take this route network:
MEX, BOG, LIM, EZE, MIA, JFK, they might be able to create a "mini-hub" with the help of their code-share partners.
Also I don't subscribe to the idea "all before me failed, I am doomed to failed". In my country, in Europe, up to about 4 years ago, there were very few flighst from local airports (because other country's airports were so close by and were MAJOR airports). Several startups failed, and several got-by with problems and financial distress, then came THAT low cost airline and made a revolution. Local traffic was, obviosly, price-sensitive with high elasticity of demand, so low-cost offer attracted severalfold number of passangers than before. Now THAT low cost airline is among the ones very successful low-cost airlines. And they offer sandwich and they offer free drinks.
The USA is fouled up. Time to take advantage.
The US Visa requirement for US airport transfers has largely knocked US airlines out of the Latin America - Europe business. Santo Domingo or Punta Cana (I see that Frank Ranieri is involved) would be well positioned geographically to fill part of this role, especially since they already have healthy origin and destination traffic.
SDQ or Punta Cana could become a break of bulk hub transfering passengers between the hemispheres. Air Europa would fill the wide body transatlantic role, while a captive or partially captive Air Dominicana could provide the connector service. Think about the symbiotic relationship between COPA and Continental that lasted for many years.
Also, a Dominican flagged carrier can carry tourists from northern and eastern Europe nonstop to the Caribbean, while Air Europa would have to stop in Madrid.
Considering that Air Europa is primarily a tourist carrier, I would think SDQ/Punta Cana to Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose, Cartagena, and Havana, would be 'nice' for starters. 'Nice', does not mean likely. Remember, friends don't let friends start airlines.
The US Visa requirement for US airport transfers has largely knocked US airlines out of the Latin America - Europe business. Santo Domingo or Punta Cana (I see that Frank Ranieri is involved) would be well positioned geographically to fill part of this role, especially since they already have healthy origin and destination traffic.
SDQ or Punta Cana could become a break of bulk hub transfering passengers between the hemispheres. Air Europa would fill the wide body transatlantic role, while a captive or partially captive Air Dominicana could provide the connector service. Think about the symbiotic relationship between COPA and Continental that lasted for many years.
Also, a Dominican flagged carrier can carry tourists from northern and eastern Europe nonstop to the Caribbean, while Air Europa would have to stop in Madrid.
Considering that Air Europa is primarily a tourist carrier, I would think SDQ/Punta Cana to Cancun, Cozumel, San Jose, Cartagena, and Havana, would be 'nice' for starters. 'Nice', does not mean likely. Remember, friends don't let friends start airlines.
PUNTACANA(Ranieri, et al.) is set to construct a second runway, which I believe is to be A380 certified ...
Those Of Us With Long Histories In The DR Know Better!
We have seen em come,and seen em GO! Many times before!!!
When they "GO",they leave thousands of poor Dominicans either "Stranded" in the US,or holding a useless ticket here in the DR! They also "Leave" with millions of dollars of the peoples ticket money!
A few years later,the same "Crooks" do it all over again!
When there is no airline,they are appointed "Ambasador" to somewhere????
Don't EVER buy a ticket on a Dominican socalled "Airline"!
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We have seen em come,and seen em GO! Many times before!!!
When they "GO",they leave thousands of poor Dominicans either "Stranded" in the US,or holding a useless ticket here in the DR! They also "Leave" with millions of dollars of the peoples ticket money!
A few years later,the same "Crooks" do it all over again!
When there is no airline,they are appointed "Ambasador" to somewhere????
Don't EVER buy a ticket on a Dominican socalled "Airline"!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
Criss,
To which crooks do you refer? Ranieri? Hazouri? They are the ones involved in the planning of this new airline. Please let us know specifically which of the previous "Dominican airlines" these people were involved with so we can guard ourselves accordingly.
No one on this board had been more sceptical than me of the previous rogues gallery of wet-leased and/or scheduled charter so-called "Dominican" carriers. APA, Aeromar, Quisqueya, Air Santo Domingo, etc. Hell, I even warned people about Pan Am, which many might have thought was a legitimate airline based on its name (purchased out of the bankruptcy of the once-great real Pan Am). But, you have to admit, this new group has the resources to make a go at it.
A380 will not be flying on cheap and charter routes, this is the airplane for airline like Singapore Airlines, Emirates etc.
Porfio, the one who predicted here a bankrupcy of Aeromar was me, 6 months before it happened, remember???????????
Well, it definetly does receive more passangers than any of the other airports. ..clearly more than AILA, and the difference between the two increases about every year.
I'm sure the statistic devision at the Central Bank must that the actual numbers, but I'm too lazy at the momment.
Air Dominicana is a rather fubly name. Taino Airline, Air Taino, and even DR (in the form of a ver nice logo) sound
better
P.S. Porfi, CC bowed Cap Cana would never happen, not in DR. Not Jack Nicklaus. Never! I'm sure he woud have said the same thing about the very private PUNTACANA International Airport.
better
P.S. Porfi, CC bowed Cap Cana would never happen, not in DR. Not Jack Nicklaus. Never! I'm sure he woud have said the same thing about the very private PUNTACANA International Airport.
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