Another "lunatic" idea by DR politicians

[Golo100]

Jojocho

The relativity theory works even in human behavior. Listen to this Jojocho, you were not alive to see it, but filmstrips and videos can verify what I am saying.....when Trujillo was killed thousands upon thousands of people were out in the streets crying and mourning. I admit that I have seen people been led to a "political rally".(During Trujillo people were picked up at work in trucks and buses to go to pro-Trujillo rallies. Even today political rallies are blown out of proportion by trucking and employees who refuse to go may not find their desk in their job the next day).

What I have not been able to witness yet is somebody being forced to cry, except by torture or punishment. Nobody had a gun to their head when El Jefe died. Now Eisntein postulated that people who ride an elevator in principle cannot tell wether the force that acts on them is due to gravitation or the constant acceleration of the elevator.

So people who see things different today than in the past are just living the present and perceiving history as told today. Some today are even predicting future history(Balaguer will be remembered as the father of democracy!!!)

If as you said people were happy to get rid of Trujillo, we are just as fed up with democracy today. Neo-liberalism is being blamed for today's economic evils, Bush is an assassin according to most of the Islamic people, while a hero to most in the Western hemisphere. A person could sleep with their windows open during Trujillo, but was afraid to insult him, today we can freely insult any politician but nobody listens, and on top of that it's your responsibility to construct your own prison cell(iron bars on all windows and doors)!!! Anything relative here?

TW

 

[jojocho]

You have a very interesting point of view (not necesarily my own, but interesting nonetheless). Would love to chat with you sometime about these events.

By the way, do you consider yourself a trujillista?

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Trujillo Today

Imagine if Trujillo were still in power today. Do you really think that you could sleep with the windows open? In the age of cable tv, the internet and $350 round-trip airfares, the forces of economic and cultural integration would be far beyond the ability of El Jefe to stop. (The mighty Soviet Union couldn't stop it.)

Were Jefe still in power, Newyorquinos well-trained in crime and violence would still be arriving daily. Trujillo himself would no doubt have taken a big role in the drug trafficking business by now - ala Baby Doc and Noriega - compromising with powerful criminal elements.

There is no going backwards.

 

[Golo100]

Jojocho

I was perhaps too young to say now that I was a Trujillista, but I was brought up in a family that admired Trujillo, so was more than 95% of the population from what I gathered. He was admired by young and old. So did I.

As a matured and somewhat intellectualized adult I can firmly say that Trujillo was by far a better administrator(zero foreign debt, no inflation, the strongest monetary system in America other than the USA) than all presidents who followed him up to today.

He practicly created this nation's institutions and maintained order throughout the system. Everything worked in an orderly fashion. Nothing ever got lost. Our armed forces were not politized and were more professional. Even today, Carretera Duarte built by Trujillo is the greatest construction project ever done in DR. Most of his infrastructure remains as the best built and lasting.(Carretera Duarte was built with airport quality. You could land a jet in it. Today's reconstruction is a piece of black asphalt crap) Duarte bridge built by Trujillo has lasted beyond its years because of Trujillo's will. It has received little maintenance since, yet it stands.)

Take something as simple as garbage. Pick up was daily everywhere. We had neat and clean sweep trucks that would wash and vacuum the streets everyday. Do you see anybody picking up trash today?

Take electricity. Trujillo created the CDE and built it into a highly professional agency. There were never any blackouts, even during hurricanes. The water was flowing in all barrios, cities and towns and he preserved the enviroment so that rivers were healthy. Crime was non-existent, specially car theft, robbery, drugs and holdups. The police and army were not filled with criminal elements like today.

He developed the sugar, cocoa and cofee industry into important export factors only to be destroyed by our present leaders.

Of course you say, well it was a dictatorship. As a young man I never felt the difference. I went to parties, enjoyed girls, we danced rock'nroll, the twist and mashed potatoes, wore Elvis' greasy hair and went to TV shows to dance. I listened to the Worldwide Hit Parade from U.S. radio and had the top 10 hits very cheap. Our parties were as good as any today. We dressed better. We ate better. My school Colegio La Salle was 200% better then than the mickey mouse school it is today. Our State University was a top institution, not the joke it is today. It's all relative my friend.

Since this is getting so lenghty, you can ask me later and I can tell you the origin and what happened to all of the model neighborhoods created by Trujillo that today have become slums thanks to lack of planning and the disarray of today's governments.

TW

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Golo,

Old farts in every country say the same thing. "Back when I was a boy, the trains ran on-time, cars were built to last, the airlines served meals with a smile, the schools were fine, kids respected their parents, you could sleep with the doors open, blah, blah, ad nauseum. It's like a running joke. The only difference is that you add that it was because of the good old homicidal facsist dictatorship!

Don't you think other old farts in Caracas and Mexico City also talk about how crime free and functional their cities used to be - back when their populations were a fraction of today's???

Quality of life is sinking in the overpopulated capitals of every developing country. And nobody anywhere builds things to last anymore. You say its because Trujillo is gone. Well, did Trujillo reign in Caracas, Mexico City and Detroit also???

 

[jojocho]

Golo

Definitely sounds like you came from a trujillista family. All I can say is that the elders in my family agree with you on the point that everything worked back then, but they also say that they lived in fear, and that they rather see things how they are today than have him ruling the country. Perhaps your family didn't live in Ciudad Trujillo, maybe they where one of the many "compadres" that Trujillo had, maybe they didn't live the world that a lot of dominicans had to live in during the "Era". As you have said many times ... it's all relative.

 

[x_man]

Golo did you know this one??

E=m*c^2

X (go Giants)

 

[Cleef]

Just an eager observer's two cents:

I like the idea to name a street corner after these people instead of renaming a street (I just bought a new street map so perhaps my views are fiscally jaded).

Anyhow, I was thinking it would be appropriate to name all the shiny new toll booths after Hipolito.

When you pull up there would be a big "Hippo" head that opens it's mouth and you throw in your pesos.

And yes, the "hippo" head would DEFINITELY be wearing that stupid hat he wears all the time.

 

[Golo100]

Rubirosa

The Mighty Soviet Union when headed by communists and after is a different story. Sure the new capitalist government will inherit the problems you mention. Trujillo was much stronger than guys like Pinochet. Yet Pinochet was in power during the age of internet and mass communications. Castro is still in power and only recently you hear things like crime creeping up. Yet, without the embargo and international isolation he could easily maintain the same order under better conditions. Trujillo was much stronger than Castro, but was not a communist.

I guarantee you that if Dominican-Yorks sent back by Uncle Sam were sent during Trujillo they would dissapear at the airport, or he might just turn them into an international guerrilla group to fight back invaders. Noriega and Baby Doc were school children next to Trujillo. Do you remember "La Legion Extrangera" created by Trujillo in 1954 to fight back invasions?

If United States would have decided to maintain right wing governments and dictators in power the way they allow in the Middle East, Africa and Asia we would still be talking Trujillo here. But when the US decided to change to democracies Trujillo's fate was written. Trujillo was not convenient to the US because he ran the ship his own way and paid his international bills. He was not a ward of the IMF and the World Bank. That's a no-no.

The rest of your argument is simplistic. Law and order can be maintained nowadays under strict regimes. DR was in the mold of North Korea, Taiwan and some of the smaller kingdoms of today, which still maintain Trujillo's standards. The problem is that you cannot admit that democracy has failed, at least in its present form. Venezuela has been in chaos since Perez Jimenez for the same reasons we are heading there. Now Chavez has his hands tied by the US government. He could have changed Venezuela for better, but Bush is not going to allow that.

As to fear in the streets in DR then and today, more people dissapear today because of political crimes than during Trujillo's time. For every "hero" you can name killed by Trujillo I can name you double the amount of "heroes" killed by Balaguer, Jorge Blanco, Antonio Guzman, Leonel Fernandez and Hipolito. In fact, today we call many of them "political campaign dead", "intercambio de disparos", "ajuste de cuentas", "el caso esta abierto", "murio en La Victoria por heridas causadas por desconocidos", "se escapo de carcel", "pagina en blanco", and so on.

TW

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

The Good Old Days

Golo,

I really like your posts. They give me a perspective that I almost never find where I hang out - that of a blue blood Dominican. And you have some real good historic insights. I only recently read about the Dominican foreign legion of the 1950s for the first time.

Interestingly, I'm not sure who thinks more similarly to regular Dominicans - blue blood Dominicans like you or regular foreigners. But that's a topic for a different day.

Castro, in addition to being a totalitarian dictator, has had the luxury of cutting off the free back and forth of Cuban-yorks and Little Habaneros. Foreigners are also not free to migrate to Cuba in general.

Also, I doubt Trujillo and his ilk would have been interested in being cut off from the US and its money. He would have taken the crime and rif raff in exchange for the money.

So, yes, he has successfully maintained order, but at costs that Trujillo might not have been willing to pay.

Pinochet has been out of civil power for 13 years now. His downfall was certainly due at least in part to economic and communications pressures.

You may argue that it was beneficial to be an isolationist totalitarian state if you like. The DR was one under Trujillo. But is it even possible to be one today? Hundreds of thousands in North Korea are starving. I don't know who in North Korea (except maybe the 1% that are party members) would ever in the future refer to today as the good old days.

The pressures on societies to internationalize today are enormous. Very few (Myanmar, North Korea, Iran) can keep it up. You may have been one of the favored classes that actually benefited from living under Trujillo, and there were no doubt some ignorant classes that thought they did, but it's application to today is irrelevant. No country in this hemisphere, and few in the world, are free to go there. Welcome to the "New World Order", "Pax Americana", new hegemony, or whatever you want to call it.

Please let me know more about the political disappearances to which you refer.

 

[Golo100]

Porfirio

La Legion Extranjera in the Dominican Republic was organized by Trujillo in the 50's when Elvis was at its heyday(Sorry, he still is decades after his death..his latest CD is the best selling in the world).

Its main location was in a dirt road just outside of Loma de Cabrera and about 15 miles from where Antonio De La Maza(now a hero) the terror of the border had his lumber mills. By the way, just about that time someone by the name of Fernandito Villalona was born in Loma de Cabrera. Hundreds of children were born out of marriages and wedlock with legionnaires in the town, of course.

The local regular army post in Loma had its own separate fort with a lieutenant in charge. But the heart, soul and power of the border town was the legion. There were several companies and they were the size of a whole brigade(several thousand) under the command of Colonel Carlos Maria Paulino Asiatico. They were in large wooden barracks neatly organized, landscaped and self-maintained. They always wore camouflage, except for activities. Their main weapon was the legendary Mauser Rifle and the Cristobal machinegun built in DR by Trujillo. During their time the Haitians stopped crossing the border. They were absolutely afraid of this highly skilled group. They could have taken over Haiti in hours if they wanted to.

The legion was later disbanded and they were merged into the different armed forces and the police. believe it or not, a corporal scribe from the legion went on to become Chief of Police. Another,Lieutenant Miguel Calderon became an aide to Caama?o during the revolution. The key staff of the legion went on to take many important army posts.

TW

 

[Golo100]

Porfirio, I forgot!!

Pedro Franco Badia, actual Secretary of Interior was a low rank member of the legion.

TW

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Military Power of Trujillo

Facsinating info, Golo. Shame Bosch didn't have access to La Legion Extranjera during the Haitian crisis of 1965.

But that raises another question. In the 1965 Haitian crisis, it became apparent that the Dominican military had no real strategic capabilities. Bosch learned, only after some unfortunate sabre-ratteling, that his armed forces could do and would do nothing about Papa Doc's aggression.

The conclusion that most draw from the event is that Trujillo's military, despite all its huff and puff, was only useful as a tool of domestic repression.

Do you disagree? Would it be your conclusion that the Dominican military was substanitally weaker in 1965 than in 1961? Do you believe that the Legion Extranjera or any other units could have been effectively transported and supplied within Haiti?

Also, I was hoping you would provide more info on the recent political disappearances to which you refer in one of your postings.

Thanks.

 

[Golo100]

Rubirosa

Our 1965 army was in shambles after Juan Bosch weakened it with its "peoples army" which was undercutting the regular army's effectiveness. Bosch armed thousands of civilians in an effort to build a Castro-like guerrilla force. He cut the army's budget and supplies. He also infiltrated his people and as a result young officers like Manuel A. Lachapelle, Fernandez Dominguez and Miguel Angel Calderon Cepeda later on became revolutionaries.

The 1961 army was demoralized with Trujillo's death and had no leadership. When Negro Trujillo returned to try to take power away from Balaguer at Ramfis' request, Negro found the Trujillo power base(the army) now headless. He just took a plane back out of the country to enjoy the dollar suitcases he took from the Central Bank along with some gold.

When Gen. Elias Wessin y Wessin took his forces across the Ozama and Lachapelle, then a lowly captain rushed thru Duarte Bridge and Amado Garcia Guerrero Avenue shooting at everything the revolution had started. Just in the backyard of a house owned by my father in Barrio Mejoramiento Social 3 army soldiers were killed. The constitucionalistas were locked in Ciudad Nueva after the regular army sorrounded them. But defections took their toll and Lyndon Johnson had to step in and save the country from Caama?o. Communist groups like 14 de Junio, Partido Comunista and other left wing groups had already infiltrated the Constitucionalistas.

However, our army at either time, with or without the legion could have wiped out Papa Doc at will. The Legion would have taken just hours. Papa Doc had no air force. Our air force was still viable and Haitians are not used to being fired upon from the air. Duvalier's army would have given up with just the sound of our old fashioned "vampiro" jets and P-51's shooting at them, not to mention our tanks. Even the constitucionalista army under Caama?o would have made pieces of Duvalier's army.

Today is even worse for Haiti. Any one of our special groups, like the Guaraguaos, or the Rangers could go into Haiti and clean shop. We could send our AMET force and wipe their mickey mouse army and police.

TW

 

[SDecatur]

"could" is a word many would be conquerors have choked upon

<b>Today is even worse for Haiti. Any one of our special groups, like the Guaraguaos, or the Rangers could go into Haiti and clean shop. We could send our AMET force and wipe their mickey mouse army and police. </b>

TW


Spoken as only a true student of battle could, one who never experienced the realities of war, the intangibles, the lack of subjective purpose or result orientated objectives. The United States "could" have easily defeated the Communist in South Asia, but something went awry.

Don't base your victory on paper statistics

SD

<b>"Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations may she always be in the right; but our country right or wrong" </b>

 

[Golo100]

SDecatur

Wrong, wrong wrong!!

The United States lost a political war, not a military one. Sometimes even not winning handily or wiping out the enemy becomes a political strategy. Take the Gulf War for instance. Why didn't the U.S. topple Saddam Hussein when they could have eaten him alive and his overmatched guard.

But let's assume the Viet Cong really won militarily, as some like you wrongly believe. They would have lost from a worthy enemy. The Viet Cong and the North Vietnamese armies were the best in the world in jungle warfare, quite experienced after so many years of protracted war with the French and the US and were fighting in one of the worst jungle situations for Americans.

Haiti has no real army. Their police is a joke. There are no reserves. There are no militias and or enough weapons among their people and they have no will to win. We have beaten the Haitians in every battle we have ever encountered in history. They are broke and cannot buy weapons. They have no air force, heavy artillery or armored divisions. There is no place to hide in Haiti's bare mountains, there is no forest cover. This would be the most uneven fight of any two countries in the world, except matching Iraq against Kuwait or China against Mongolia.

TW

 

[Porfio_Rubirosa]

Haiti? Who Would Want It???

Discussing whether the Dominican military could conquer Haiti is going from the sublime to the ridiculous. Who the hell would want Haiti even if you could conquer it. That would be like winning a cruise to Beirut.

None the less, according to Ambassador Martin's book, Bosch was told by his generals that they did not have the material necessities to supply any divisions across the boarder. The Vampire jets were out of repair (and were not even used in the civil war - the p-51s were used instead). Remember, the goal was not to conquer Malpasso or Hinche. The goal was to get some divisions to Port au Prince and supply them on the way there, and it could not be done. I suspect that it could not be done today either - and that despite the fact that Haiti does not have a functioning army.

Interesting facts: The DR was the last country to use p-51s in battle (1965), and the last country to use the Lockheed Constellation for scheduled passenger service (Quisqueyana Airlines, 1972).

I'll grant you that the ejercito sure does have a lot of generals with a lot of real shiny medals.

 

[Golo100]

Some thoughts on this

The question was not wether DR could take over Haiti or not. Haiti has never been a take over objective. You are right, who would want to take over a country like that?

But the Dominican Army can easily drive thru to the heart of Haiti without much opposition. Little is needed in terms of supplies to just drive over and punish the enemy, which would be the only reason to attack.

As to the question of political deaths, here are a few of the long list pending investigations or resolutions, which will never come: Moises Marchena, a well known businessman and hotelier from the Pedernales area was arrested after having him forced to give up property titles to land in the Bahia de Las Aguilas area. It turned out to be he never owned anything in that area, but in the town itself,. yet he ended up at La Victoria prison. Used as a scapegoat to cover up all the upper level politicians involved in the illegal take over of those lands, he was killed in prison by "unknown assailants". This case took place during the PLD government. Another case was that of General Santiago who was killed in San Juan de La Maguana while posting political posters with a crew of PRD members. He was killed by PLD campaign workers. Case still pending in court. Several FALPO leaders have been killed because of their involvement in protests. They have been assassinated at home and other locations not having to do with the actual strikes. A PLD member who called Hipolito Mejia a "come yerba" was shot dead by Hipolito's key bodyguard at a rally in front of TV cameras. The killer is out on the streets. During Balaguer's reign, hundreds were killed, including news reporters, writers, politicians and businessmen.

More people have been killed for political reasons in the last forty years than Trujillo's 30 years.

Censorship is just as bad. Hundreds of radio stations are closed every four years when governments change for political reasons. Prominent political programs such as talk shows by Asela Lamarche and Zapete Cornielle were closed by the PRD government. Zapete accused Hipolito's legal counsel directly of causing the closing. The most popular political radio talk show"El Gobierno de La Ma?ana" has been closed several times.

Narciso Isa Conde, DR's communist most prominent leader has been arrested, interrogated and blamed several times for almost every kidnapping and bank robbery in DR. A case has never even been made. More labor syndicate leaders go to jail nowadays than at any other time in our history. It is almost routine to jail them prior to any street riots or protests.

TW

 

[Golo100]

P.S. I forgot

The biggest political closing of any major media outfit took place during the PLD government when they closed down Hatuey De Camps TV station with a major military operation. Did you just notice channel 6 on the air again now that the PRD government is back?

TW

 

[Golo100]

It's celebration time

The Santo Domingo City Hall council voted unanimously to keep the name of George Washington for the Malecon.

The asinine proposal to change its name to the do-nothing Hermanas Mirabal, pseudo heroes of the post Trujillo era, was an outrage. Thank god there a a law by Congress to establish the name of Washington, otherwise we would have had the typical spur of the moment decision of new day politicians, who have no idea why things are the way they are.

Of course, the war has not been won. How can we be sure our empty brains in the congress wouldn't think of taking this wild ride themselves and void the law?

I also believe there was some pressure from owners of the multimillion condos being built to resurrect the Malecon to leave G.W.'s name. Can you imagine paying $5 million for a condo in an Hermanas Mirabal Avanue? No way Jose. Sales would have crashed!!

TW