Another super Mall for Santiago!!!!

[jorgesarduysousa]

The main problem in the DR is of course education...but then again if the population was well educated the politicians wont be in office. As far as Malls and other construction going on has anyone seen Terra Mall FULL or Barajas Mall to capacity??
The only reason we have them is to distribute the $$$ these construction company obtain the wealth illegally

 

[Gurabo444]

I honestly don't get what so many people on this forum have agaisnt malls, lol. Also, the argument that DR needs more schools etc.. than malls is true, but don't you guys get that the government doesn't built the malls? Let the private sector invest in whetever the heck they want, is their money, and they can do as they wish with it. I'm also sure that the people building these malls are making some sort of profit on them, or else they wouldn't built them, or perhaps you guys think they do it "por el amor al art". And please don't come with the usual BS, about these Malls being built with drug Money, at least in Santiago I know all the malls have been built by local families, for example Colinas mall was built by the Ochoa's, who own many Ferreterias etc.. and Bella terra was built by constructora herrera checo, who's business is to built Appartments, houses etc.. I don't know maybe these families are also in the drug business, but so far they've never even been accused of such things. Anyone who reads some of the comments made here, would think that the Malls negatively affect many of you.

BTW Lately all the malls in Santiago seem to be pretty busy. Colinas Mall is always pack when I go there, and last time I looked at their site, over 200 stores were open in the mall, Plaza internacional is always full of people as well, and they've been doing good since they open their doors back in 2001. The one that's not doing as good is Bella Terra, and when I'm there the amount of people I see is not bad either, of course if you go to the left wing of the mall, it will be completely empty, since there's no stores on that side, thus why would anyone go to that side of the mall. Last, I welcome any new malls in the city, which means more Jobs for people, especially young people like me, two of my best friends work at Colinas mall, and that's how they're able to pay for collage, so I believe that overall malls have a good impact on the city.

 

[yapask1]

Malls take away jobs mostly selling imported goods at inflated prices and cause local retail business to close - there is small chance for DR manufacturers / producers to supply mall outlets. DR needs markets and good local stores utilizing existing buildings.

Great cities like London have very few malls.

yapask1

 

[Chip]

In the DR malls provides a lot of services and goods that weren't even available before so who is losing out on business??

Malls also add places for the locals to congregate and thus add to the quality of life. Go to Las Colinas mall on the weekends and see what I'm talking about. Many on this board said Las Colinas would be a failure too - so much for that theory.

Maybe those proponents of theoretical economics ought to rethink the tenets of their "religion" given that they haven't helped Europe a whole lot.

 

[yapask1]

In the DR malls provides a lot of services and goods that weren't even available before so who is losing out on business??

Malls also add places for the locals to congregate and thus add to the quality of life. Go to Las Colinas mall on the weekends and see what I'm talking about. Many on this board said Las Colinas would be a failure too - so much for that theory.

Maybe those proponents of theoretical economics ought to rethink the tenets of their "religion" given that they haven't helped Europe a whole lot.

Many countries in Europe have high happiness scores without malls. USA has huge resources in proportion to population compared with Europe. But it wastes them. And meanwhile some of the population live in tent cities without good medical care. Some years back I visited an Indian Reservation in Minnesota - desperate people in desperate circumstances!


Services and goods that were not provided before are of little benefit - who needs a 4G phone or iphone or
some other stupid salesman pushes in his mall store.

yapask1

 

[Chip]

 

[SantiagoDR]

The part about Europe being all "peachy" was sarcasm. I expect you know that as you are no longer there

Like the "Apple", Malls are a tool of "Satan", where evil forces converge.
​

_{lol (Sarcasm also)}

 

[donP]

Tent + Parabola

And meanwhile some of the population live in tent cities (...) Some years back I visited an Indian Reservation in Minnesota - desperate people in desperate circumstances!

We have just installed our dish... we are not desperate at all .... :bunny:

donP

 

[playacaribe2]

Many countries in Europe have high happiness scores without malls.

OK.

USA has huge resources in proportion to population compared with Europe. But it wastes them. And meanwhile some of the population live in tent cities without good medical care. Some years back I visited an Indian Reservation in Minnesota - desperate people in desperate circumstances!

And what does this comment have to do with anything in this thread. You sound eerily like a former poster, who would constantly take a thread and try to turn it into an anti-US rant.

If you want to rant/rail against the US, take it to off topic and I will be glad to engage you there.

My apologies to the moderator(s) for going off topic.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2

 

[Redscot]

In the DR malls provides a lot of services and goods that weren't even available before so who is losing out on business??

Malls also add places for the locals to congregate and thus add to the quality of life. Go to Las Colinas mall on the weekends and see what I'm talking about. Many on this board said Las Colinas would be a failure too - so much for that theory.

Maybe those proponents of theoretical economics ought to rethink the tenets of their "religion" given that they haven't helped Europe a whole lot.

Colinas Mall is still half full. Stores open and close on a regular basis...From what I understand Jumbo threatened to pull out and they were forced to subsidize 2 years of rent to keep them there. The weekends there are ......hectic for lack of a better word....the percentage of people milling about who are consumer's is a fraction of those who are there because they live in a barrio close to the vicinity and go to check out the chicks and can chill in an air conditioned environment where it's "happening". Colinas Mall has it's moments, but it is FAR from a success. What is the business model for a mall to fulfill 60-70 % occupancy after 3-4 years in operation? I am a DR optimist, but I ain't blind.

 

[cobraboy]

let me put it in even simpler terms for you. an uneducated populace cannot create wealth.

Actually, they can.

The lions share of wealth in the DR comes from land holdings.

There are many, many uneducated camposinos who are wealthy because of the land their family has "owned" for generations.

I meet them every time we go to the country. A "rich" guy with little education...but a lot of land.

All that beachfront property was at one time close to worthless until foreigners came in and started buying it and paying BIG money.

Look at both Santiago and Santo Domingo. When I first came to the DR 25 years ago those cities were a fraction of what they are today. And MUCH of what you see today as an "urban" area, concrete buildings, paved roads and people, was near worthless farm land. Hell, Los Jardienes was a residential suburb! And modestly priced! Now a meter there commands a huge price!

My wife's father homesteaded over 5,000+ acres past Juncalito to grow coffee. Balaguer deeded many, many farmers the land they had worked for 20 years. That land, perfect coffee growing environment, is no longer worthless. And not just in the mountains. All over the country.

What you see in the DR is similar to what you saw in the US in the early 1800's: second generation landed gentry extracting wealth from holdings their families obtained in grants from the King.

The *real* question is this: what will the next generations DO with the wealth that is in their family from old land holdings? Create an industrial base? Or p!ss it away on jeepetas and whores?

To say that you can't have wealth without edumacation is false. You most certainly can.

 

[Chip]

Colinas Mall is still half full. Stores open and close on a regular basis...From what I understand Jumbo threatened to pull out and they were forced to subsidize 2 years of rent to keep them there. The weekends there are ......hectic for lack of a better word....the percentage of people milling about who are consumer's is a fraction of those who are there because they live in a barrio close to the vicinity and go to check out the chicks and can chill in an air conditioned environment where it's "happening". Colinas Mall has it's moments, but it is FAR from a success. What is the business model for a mall to fulfill 60-70 % occupancy after 3-4 years in operation? I am a DR optimist, but I ain't blind.

If you have the capital burning a hole in your pocket and only have the option of investing it a mall or depositing it in a foreign bank with all of it's challenges(taxes)and are content with being just in the red for a couple of years why wouldn't one build a mall here? Remember there are virtually no public companies so the performance requirements will vary by investor.

Also, believe it or not there are universities here and they teach standard economics and I'm sure a market analysis and business plans were formulated. At the end of the day they built it so that should tell most something.

Then again I understand to many the DR is as backwards as they come and the general level of sophistication is that of a typical motoconcho. For those of you who really think this I can tell you that the big companies here employ highly skilled people in their field to do all types of analysis including market research etc. I expect most of these professionals have graduate level degrees and many have studied abroad. I base this on my graduate level business classes here and hearing through the grapevine where some of these professors have worked.

Finally, everyone seems really provoked regarding this topic mostly because they all want to have Pichardo admit he is wrong. Well earth to you guys Pichardo is having way to much fun stringing you guys along to stop now.

 

[the gorgon]

Actually, they can.

The lions share of wealth in the DR comes from land holdings.

There are many, many uneducated camposinos who are wealthy because of the land their family has "owned" for generations.

I meet them every time we go to the country. A "rich" guy with little education...but a lot of land.

All that beachfront property was at one time close to worthless until foreigners came in and started buying it and paying BIG money.

Look at both Santiago and Santo Domingo. When I first came to the DR 25 years ago those cities were a fraction of what they are today. And MUCH of what you see today as an "urban" area, concrete buildings, paved roads and people, was near worthless farm land. Hell, Los Jardienes was a residential suburb! And modestly priced! Now a meter there commands a huge price!

My wife's father homesteaded over 5,000+ acres past Juncalito to grow coffee. Balaguer deeded many, many farmers the land they had worked for 20 years. That land, perfect coffee growing environment, is no longer worthless. And not just in the mountains. All over the country.

What you see in the DR is similar to what you saw in the US in the early 1800's: second generation landed gentry extracting wealth from holdings their families obtained in grants from the King.

The *real* question is this: what will the next generations DO with the wealth that is in their family from old land holdings? Create an industrial base? Or p!ss it away on jeepetas and whores?

To say that you can't have wealth without edumacation is false. You most certainly can.

cobraboy, you are actually correct, in part. in 80% of the world, people do have a tremendous amount of wealth. the problem is that it is useless, insofar as capital is concerned. the problem is that most of it is undocumented, and cannot be used to create capital. get a hold of this book, and it will give you a wonderful insight into the problem

The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West, and Fails Everywhere Else.

 

[Chip]

Don't tell the Chinese that capitalism doesn't work. It works pretty well here too, judging from the number of small business here.

 

[cobraboy]

the problem is that it is useless, insofar as capital is concerned.

Incorrect again.

Even the most simple of landowner can extract capital from unpledged land from a bank should he choose. What do you think the old S&L's and land banks were all about? Capital comes from wealth and landed holdings are the purest form of wealth!

What do you think a farmer pledges when he borrows for crop seed? What were "Robber Barons" all about and how did Simon Legree become a caricature of a banker foreclosing on a family farm?

It happens daily! The ONLY superior asset a bank would prefer is a cash CD!

TODAY, banks in the DR are begging landowners to come get a loan from them!

Frankly, I'm shocked that someone who claims to have edumacation in developmental economics would make the the statements you've made...because the concepts are so basic and you're statements are so incorrect.

 

[the gorgon]

Incorrect again.

Even the most simple of landowner can extract capital from unpledged land from a bank should he choose. What do you think the old S&L's and land banks were all about? Capital comes from wealth and landed holdings are the purest form of wealth!

What do you think a farmer pledges when he borrows for crop seed? What were "Robber Barons" all about and how did Simon Legree become a caricature of a banker foreclosing on a family farm?

It happens daily! The ONLY superior asset a bank would prefer is a cash CD!

TODAY, banks in the DR are begging landowners to come get a loan from them!

Frankly, I'm shocked that someone who claims to have edumacation in developmental economics would make the the statements you've made...because the concepts are so basic and you're statements are so incorrect.

i see that this is going nowhere. you fail to understand that you cannot compare the Simon Legree situation with places such as the DR, because the USA has always had a way to register all types of holdings, and protect them from being "dead capital". then again, i would prefer to take my academic cues from economists who have studied the issue in depth, than an internet blogger who thinks he knows it all. i suggest a book to you, which would serve to enlighten you , and you dismiss it, because all the people who have found it to be the seminal text on the issue of the creation of capital know less than you do. finally, my statements are incorrect to you, because you have not studied the matter, and it is you who needs to do some research. go read the book, and learn something.

 

[cobraboy]

i see that this is going nowhere. you fail to understand that you cannot compare the Simon Legree situation with places such as the DR, because the USA has always had a way to register all types of holdings, and protect them from being "dead capital". then again, i would prefer to take my academic cues from economists who have studied the issue in depth, than an internet blogger who thinks he knows it all. i suggest a book to you, which would serve to enlighten you , and you dismiss it, because all the people who have found it to be the seminal text on the issue of the creation of capital know less than you do. finally, my statements are incorrect to you, because you have not studied the matter, and it is you who needs to do some research. go read the book, and learn something.

I have a Masters in Economics, Bubba, as well as an MBA.

Do a search.

Debate over.

 

[the gorgon]

I have a Masters in Economics, Bubba, as well as an MBA.

Do a search.

Debate over.

i also have a Masters in Economics, as well as a graduate diploma in Business, and a Graduate Diploma in Investment Project Evaluation from the World Bank Institute.

do some reading

debate over.

 

[Chip]

Yes but the gargoyle supports and defends the failed economics of Obama, debate over.

 

[the gorgon]

Yes but the gargoyle supports and defends the failed economics of Obama, debate over.

there is no debate between you and i. come back, when you actually learn something which can be debated, and we can schedule a date. funny how guys like you characterize Obama's policies as being failures, yet you have not the faintest idea of an alternative.