APAGONES can put this country upside down

[Chirimoya]

Have you ever wondered why they don't better manage the blackouts. For example, if they wanted they could come up with some way to let people know ahead of time that power will be shut off in sector 4. I suppose they don't do this because they want people to experience a black out the way it is experienced...without warning...suddenly you are in the dark...UNLESS...you have the generator or inverter.

I would like to hear from someone knowledgeable about what exactly is happening when power is shut off to a section of the city.

I've always wondered about this. In the seventies/early eighties there was inadequate power capacity in my home town (Gibraltar) and the local radio station and daily newspaper would announce the schedules for power cuts, which were spread evenly across the residential districts. It made the situation liveable, and unless you weren't paying attention you'd know to use the stairs instead of the lift. I only had to be rescued by the fire brigade once!

For the last few months our power cuts here in SD have been on an unofficial schedule. currently 1:00-5:00pm - and it helps us plan our day. Of course, Monday may see the start of a new cycle, e.g. 9:00am - 1:00pm, and we have to be prepared for that eventuality.

Why they can't announce these schedules in advance is beyond me.

 

[MrMike]

It seems that many believe that Apagones can not put this country upside down.

The country has been upside down for as long as anyone can remember. And I don't think anyone can remember a time when there was stable electricity facilitating industrial and technological progress.

The people selling inverters and plantas are not getting as rich as you might believe, I aughta know because I am one of them. The government takes MUCH more between sales tax, exchange commission and import duties than any distributor could hope to mark up products.

The problem will not go away until the subsidies are removed and NO ONE is entitled to free electricity. If people are too poor to pay for electricity, then they must try to limit their consumption or else do without for 24 hrs/day instead of the current 16 hrs/day like their ancestors did. I bet you anything they will come up with the cash to pay for electricity.

But this is not going to happen. Any party that eliminates subsidies will lose too much popularity, the domincan people have been conditioned to believe that getting free stuff is the answer to their problems and the political parties are playing along claiming to want to help poor people and then working overtime to keep people poor so they can keep helping them.

All of the things that would improve life in the DR for Dominicans are things that will most likely never happen:

1) Complete elimination of all subsidies that do not directly contribute to developing infrastructure, employment and education. This is not a short term solution, the benefits will most likely not be felt for at least 20 years and in the meantime the leaders who institute the change will be very unpopular.

2) General reduction of ITBIS accompanied by enforcement of payment of the tax that targets even the smallest colmados. The government estimates that evasion of sales tax is somewhere near 41%, I believe it may be much higher. so if evasion could be reduced to near zero while the tax itself was halved this would actually increase the governments revenue from the tax while at the same time extending the average household's purchasing power near 10% and stimulating trade.

3) Enforcement of property tax targeting even the wealthy families that own nearly 90% of the land in the country. This could be a tremendous source of revenue for the government and would also greatly increase development since these wealthy land owners could no longer afford to let huge expanses of land sit fallow for generation after generation. It would also reduce the need for people to build houses along the highway with front porches that extend out into the street.

4) Local law enforcement chapters headed by locally elected officials. If police chiefs at each "destacamento" were elected by local residents every 4 years and confirmed every 2 instead of appointed by some faraway politician looking for favors this would greatly inhibit corruption and most likely greatly increase efficiency in combatting crime. Yes there would still be some problems, but it would be the responsibility of every individual community to change things for the better.

There are lots more, but they are never going to happen, so whats the point?

 

[Jos?45]

Excellent Question

I've always wondered about this. In the seventies/early eighties there was inadequate power capacity in my home town (Gibraltar) and the local radio station and daily newspaper would announce the schedules for power cuts, which were spread evenly across the residential districts. It made the situation liveable, and unless you weren't paying attention you'd know to use the stairs instead of the lift. I only had to be rescued by the fire brigade once!

For the last few months our power cuts here in SD have been on an unofficial schedule. currently 1:00-5:00pm - and it helps us plan our day. Of course, Monday may see the start of a new cycle, e.g. 9:00am - 1:00pm, and we have to be prepared for that eventuality.

Why they can't announce these schedules in advance is beyond me.

They can do it. Under present conditions it is impossible to spread them evenly. However, by not spreading them evenly there is an unjust discriminations on those with higher frequency. I have written many times on how to do that in a fair mode. I have a story to tell to support that not only they can, but should do it.

In 1976 I was head dispatcher of CDE and was given the task to design "un Programa de Apagones." The first few day it worked fine. Then came the orders not to interrupt circuits. Soon, the program collapse. I was asked again to design another program and the same thing happen.

In 1996 I was asked to write a White Paper on the solution to the electricity problem, in a USAID financed project. The first objective (see page 12) was to assure the protection of the rights of the customers, and the fulfilment of their responsibilities. Of 3 sub-objective, the second was to "reduce to the minimun non-program interruptions."

Based on that sub-objective, the recommended policy was (page 19, in Spanish): "Fijados en la vieja pol?tica de satisfacer la m?xima demanda hasta sin disponer de reservas, por mucho tiempo se ha vendido la idea de que no es posible implantar un programa de interrupciones ordenado. S? es posible. Para ello se debe administrar el riesgo de las interrupciones. El costo de una interrupci?n var?a mucho dependiendo si nos sorprende o es programada. A nivel del consumidor, si es programada, podemos usar los medios alternativos, como plantas de emergencia o inversores, cuyo costo est? muy por debajo del costo del apag?n al azar. El costo es elevado si el apag?n nos sorprende y estamos en medio de un proceso costoso, como en la Refiner?a, donde se pueden perder millones de pesos, o en situaciones m?s sencillas, como ?viendo el mejor pedazo? de la telenovela o de la pel?cula, que tienen un alto costo emocional. Con una programaci?n de los apagones podemos mantener el servicio a la Refiner?a con un bajo grado de riesgo y a la vez permitir que la gente se desplace (costos de transporte) a ver su programa favorito a otro sector con un servicio garantizado a un costo mucho m?s controlado. El apag?n inesperado es muchas veces m?s costoso que el anunciado."

 

[Mirador]

They can do it.

Maybe in theory, but not in practice.

Sometimes I amuse myself by listening in on the CDEEE (pronounced like the baying of a goat) internal radio, the one that connects all main power stations, substations, sub-substations and field personnel. It's a 24 hours, round-the-clock, continuous jibber jabber of orders, counter-orders, screams and curses, tinkering with outputs, grid tensions, circuit breakers, disconnect switches, etc. The impression is that the national power grid is something akin to a tridimensional Rube Goldbelg contraption, that if left unattended for even one second the whole system will collapse. I also listen in on the police radio, and their frantic calls to power authorities to turn on the power in this or that barrio or town for obvious reasons.

PS By the way, I have a ham radio license (HI8)

 

[Jos?45]

Prime Directive and an Emergent Cluster

The country has been upside down for as long as anyone can remember. And I don't think anyone can remember a time when there was stable electricity facilitating industrial and technological progress.

The people selling inverters and plantas are not getting as rich as you might believe, I aughta know because I am one of them. The government takes MUCH more between sales tax, exchange commission and import duties than any distributor could hope to mark up products.

The problem will not go away until the subsidies are removed and NO ONE is entitled to free electricity. If people are too poor to pay for electricity, then they must try to limit their consumption or else do without for 24 hrs/day instead of the current 16 hrs/day like their ancestors did. I bet you anything they will come up with the cash to pay for electricity.

But this is not going to happen. Any party that eliminates subsidies will lose too much popularity, the domincan people have been conditioned to believe that getting free stuff is the answer to their problems and the political parties are playing along claiming to want to help poor people and then working overtime to keep people poor so they can keep helping them.

All of the things that would improve life in the DR for Dominicans are things that will most likely never happen:

1) Complete elimination of all subsidies that do not directly contribute to developing infrastructure, employment and education. This is not a short term solution, the benefits will most likely not be felt for at least 20 years and in the meantime the leaders who institute the change will be very unpopular.

2) General reduction of ITBIS accompanied by enforcement of payment of the tax that targets even the smallest colmados. The government estimates that evasion of sales tax is somewhere near 41%, I believe it may be much higher. so if evasion could be reduced to near zero while the tax itself was halved this would actually increase the governments revenue from the tax while at the same time extending the average household's purchasing power near 10% and stimulating trade.

3) Enforcement of property tax targeting even the wealthy families that own nearly 90% of the land in the country. This could be a tremendous source of revenue for the government and would also greatly increase development since these wealthy land owners could no longer afford to let huge expanses of land sit fallow for generation after generation. It would also reduce the need for people to build houses along the highway with front porches that extend out into the street.

4) Local law enforcement chapters headed by locally elected officials. If police chiefs at each "destacamento" were elected by local residents every 4 years and confirmed every 2 instead of appointed by some faraway politician looking for favors this would greatly inhibit corruption and most likely greatly increase efficiency in combatting crime. Yes there would still be some problems, but it would be the responsibility of every individual community to change things for the better.

There are lots more, but they are never going to happen, so whats the point?

Have you violated the prime directive with those statements? I will no respond to your comments; instead I will tell you what I think happen and is happening with the electricity problem. Vested interests are very powerful. The Dominican Republic re-regulated the power business. The government made a decision right at the start to stop all subsidies to electricity (something out of inexperience).

The multinational?s model of "competition" was supposed to serve all of the customers. But with a think global, act global, model that is no possible. Those are solutions for advanced countries.

After capitalization, distributors ?found out? that there were many customers which were not profitable. Then they negotiated or found a way to have the government pay subsidies to non-profitable customers. As you explained, it seems that the business model of individual solutions is perfectly matched with that model. Did the individual solutions interests participated in the procedures of the capitalization process?

Do you think there is a need to inquire on possible wrong-doing on the OUTSIDE parties of the corruption equation? A serious effort should start looking at the competitive bids terms of reference issued in 1999.

The new solutions the World Bank is bringing have to do with institution making. That means imposing models that worked well in advanced countries, but that don?t work at the bottom of the pyramid (BOP). The BOP is the largest market in the world, where most of those customers can become profitable with innovation in retail marketing. My research has been reoriented on that aim, because of extra opportunities.

On a positive note, I believe that the individual solution providers of electricity supply security are the natural retailers. The shift to be done is minor compared to monopoly minded distributors and generators. I invite the individual solution providers to joint forces with GMH to develop a vibrant cluster of retail electricity for Hispaniola and beyond. The opportunities have been here since 1996, when I wrote the White Paper. Since then, I have invested long hours on the design and architecture of a solution. The reduction of value destruction and the opportunities of value creation are available to those willing to take the risks.

 

[Jos?45]

It Can Be Done and it Needs to be Done

Maybe in theory, but not in practice.

Sometimes I amuse myself by listening in on the CDEEE (pronounced like the baying of a goat) internal radio, the one that connects all main power stations, substations, sub-substations and field personnel. It's a 24 hours, round-the-clock, continuous jibber jabber of orders, counter-orders, screams and curses, tinkering with outputs, grid tensions, circuit breakers, disconnect switches, etc. The impression is that the national power grid is something akin to a tridimensional Rube Goldbelg contraption, that if left unattended for even one second the whole system will collapse. I also listen in on the police radio, and their frantic calls to power authorities to turn on the power in this or that barrio or town for obvious reasons.

PS By the way, I have a ham radio license (HI8)

But I won?t tell you how, because is private information.

 

[Jos?45]

Thanks Snuffy

There are wealthy people somewhere who benefit from the electric situation. These special interest groups represent backup power. I would suppose that they are huge. Think of all the inverters, the generators, the batteries. This is a huge industry. This kind of thing is not going to go away overnight if ever. This kind of thing requires a dictator, not a democratically elected official. Someone who will be in power for years and years and wishes to do away with this electric problem. Otherwise, the special interest will always find a way to see that their needs are met. And the USA is never going to allow a dictator in this country who would piss off the wealthy. So that is that.

Have you ever wondered why they don't better manage the blackouts. For example, if they wanted they could come up with some way to let people know ahead of time that power will be shut off in sector 4. I suppose they don't do this because they want people to experience a black out the way it is experienced...without warning...suddenly you are in the dark...UNLESS...you have the generator or inverter.

I would like to hear from someone knowledgeable about what exactly is happening when power is shut off to a section of the city.

I think the question you asked for has been answered already. Sorry for the delay.

 

[Mirador]

But I won?t tell you how, because is private information.

If it leads to further impoverishment of those families already living below the poverty level (that's over 60% of households in the DR), I don't want to hear it.

 

[miguel]

My tail is under my legs!!

Hey buddy: I don't think that's a correct statement. As I understand it The DR had 24X7 power when the electric company was a private american company, back in the times of Trujillo. It wasn't until Balaguer came to power and decided to "nationalize" the power company (created CDE) as well as other enterprises that things started going south.

Me: "Mom Elena, when did the DR started having so many apagones?".

Mom Elana, 76 y/o: "As soon as the PRD too power after Trujillo. We need to thank the PRD and Balaguer. Cuando estaba Trujillo tu no veia esa pocaverguenza".

Me to some of you guys: sorry for opening my "mouth" too soon. It just seems that it's been happening for ever. But I stand firm on my statement that it has been much more than 30 years.

Thanks suarezn for pointing it out to me, you are a scholar and a gentleman!

 

[Jos?45]

If it leads to further impoverishment of those families already living below the poverty level (that's over 60% of households in the DR), I don't want to hear it.

It does not lead to further impoverishment. On the contrary, it reduces the cross-subsidies of supply security the paying little guy has to do when paying average rates. Prices will reflect differentiated supply security, in which every customer can select the plan that best meets their needs. Retail competition done under a prudential standards (like those of the insurance industry) should assure choice and competitive prices.

In a development leading to the market at the BOP, there will be training and jobs available at the BOP. By programming the interruptions on a fixed schedule, the cost of electricity is reduced for all customers. The cost of electricity to a customer is the sum of the electricity bill plus the cost induced by the interruptions. As the unscheduled interruptions are sharply reduced, the cost of interruptions to the customers is also sharply reduced. The whole economy will also be better off, increasing purchasing power and welfare.

A change of system for the better (a fundamental solution) will reduce long term electricity bills, but not reduce then inmediately. However, it can be design to reduce electricity costs for the consumers right from the start of the program.

 

[J D Sauser]

Apagones aren't THE problem, really...

I think that the reason apagones occure and will continue to occure, is that everybody is just so concentrated about the apagones that affect them personally. Let me explain:
You can?t cure the problem just by trying to get rid of the apagones... because that's just like trowing Tylenol at headakes. Actually it's worse: All thes luxury developments, condos and hotels who will rather "invest" in an own electric supply plant are minimizing any chance the DR as a country will ever have a statewide 24/7 electrical service stable enough to serve not only your or my home, but also to allow a growing economy and industry at a competitive price. Just try to estimate how much money es being exported daily by people and businesses buying small portatile to medium gasoline, gasoil or gas operated generators and/or powerplants... just to produce electricity at an average of what, anywhere between 0.25 to 1 USD a kW/H (including maintencance)? At the end only those who can't afford a generator (the people) will be trying to milk the power network... incidentally, those are the ones that can't or don't pay for the service anyway.
The DR goes further into debt.... and those who could or would pay for a service, rather export their money for generators and individual powerplants and gasoline to run them.

The DR, in my opinion will eventually have to revamp it's approach to electricity completely. It needs get TOTALY away from burning fuel they haven't paid for and instead produce all the island's electrical consumption by itself from renewable sources... the most likely source being the water and it's mountains. This can be done and I think it could be done in a rather short time. But does the DR have the money to do it? I would not like to make a fool of myself just by saying say "yes", BUT do believe that the DR could move itself into the position to get part of the money to do it in conjunction with a plan where the developing company(ies) would get operatation licenses for a set amount or time (and terms) to make good on what ever would be left unpaid.

... J-D.

 

[Criss Colon]

Your,"It's The Generators" Fault " Analogy is "A$$BACKWARDS"!

So........,if those of us who have generators would stop using them,the government would then take the hint and produce the energy we need???

This is the Dominican Republic! Sooooooooo....I kinda Phucking Doubt It!!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[Timex]

Yep, it's over to the DEBATE FORUM.....
Now you can take the gloves off, and really say what's on your mind!!

Tim H.:smoke:

 

[Hillbilly]

Thanks for moving it Tim!

I'll keep an eye on it.

Sort of funny a Cornell Ph D in electrical engineering on the board. I still don't know how this country managed to keep him here.

Just goes to show you that "bajo cualquier palo hay un alacr?n!!" And that's a good thing...

Now, fight nice guys and gal...

HB

 

[J D Sauser]

No gloves needed.

I think I did say what I do think, however I don?t think that I stated that I think that it?s directly the generators? fault... it?s just part of the general problem or, in other words, it adds to it... especially speaking of the economical implications.
I do understand that individuals and companies who can afford it, may feel forced to use generators and if it may help you feel any better about it, I would considder that option too. Still, it does in no way help to solve the country?s electrical problem (in the individual case called "apagones"), now does it.

In no country I know, the government is real succesful about implementing major changes (for the better) such as are needed here. Some are succesful at managing things and steer them into the right direction(s) even in some tropical fruits Republics (weather it?s bananas or ... ). Great things allways come out of the private/corporate sector (so does a lot of garbage too, I know) , leaving it to the government?s discretion to open doors so that new approaches/technologies etc may get a chance.

... J-D.

 

[Chris]

...I do understand that individuals and companies who can afford it, may feel forced to use generators and if it may help you feel any better about it, I would considder that option too. Still, it does in no way help to solve the country?s electrical problem (in the individual case called "apagones"), now does it....

J D Sauser, of course it does! We don't feel bad, and we don't 'may feel forced' (negative connotation) to use alternative methods of generating power.. And because you would consider it too, we don't feel better, as we did not feel bad at the outset....

It is not complicated... we have to to keep our businesses and homes running.

Let me give you a real example... It is a beautiful thing.. Edenorte just went off and the big invertor with fat bank of batteries took over seamlessly. The computers, printers and modems are working, the fridge, lights and fans are working. Luckily we got clever and the water is now gravity fed if there is no electricity. If Edenorte never goes on again, we'll just do some maintenance to the big bad planta on the other side of the invertor, fill it with gasoil.. (diesel) and keep on trucking. Today, we will continue with a meeting to do a little more business and employ a few more people. Tomorrow, the people working in my business, will keep working and will get paid. This is the real world for most of us, and not waiting for someone to "open a door" somewhere. On the longer term, we'll just continue building up our solar power ability.

Have you ever lived in the tropics running a business without power for three months? Some people that we know have been on generators for something like 10 years.... They run one of the biggest businesses in the DR.

Let me tell you a secret... paradise needs power to be paradise... Its darn hot otherwise.

 

[J D Sauser]

Let me tell you a secret... paradise needs power to be paradise... Its darn hot other

Let me tell you a secret... paradise needs power to be paradise... Its darn hot otherwise.

Rest assured that I do agree about the need of electric power, even in paradise... I thought that I was clear about that. Still, and I intended that to my point in my first post, I believe that it has to come from a state wide network that will not burn fuel on credit and that instead the DR (and that inlcudes everybody) need to be contemplating other (renewable) sources of energy rather quickly.

Interestingly nobody has chosen so far to comment on this, and instead a couple are just defending the legitimacy of (their) generator use and blaming banana republic type politics for the issue of apagones (and thus the use of generators). Well, if potitians think the same some of you seem to...


It does not make sense to argue about it to a point of using bad words, let?s rather just come back to the subject of the thread... Apagones. I still think that apagones are just the tip of the ice berg. While I understand that apagones upset every induvidual, business and industry sector affected, I do believe that there are bigger underlining and resulting issues to consider than just the apagon as such and that without considering these, apagones will never be a thing of the past.

... J-D.

 

[Onions&carrots]

Its not so much the corruption but the chaos

Have you ever wondered why they don't better manage the blackouts. For example, if they wanted they could come up with some way to let people know ahead of time that power will be shut off in sector 4. I suppose they don't do this because they want people to experience a black out the way it is experienced...without warning...suddenly you are in the dark...UNLESS...you have the generator or inverter.

I would like to hear from someone knowledgeable about what exactly is happening when power is shut off to a section of the city.

I will tell you what I know from those closest to the switches(the main engineers and some politicians). The electrical problem in the DR is not an example of organized corruption. It's more like the corruption occurs as a result of the spontaneous chaos which occurs. The electrical equipment is very old and prone to spontaneous breakdowns. Without warning the system randomly shuts down certain sectors sometimes. Other times it manually occurs which is a moment of profit. From these spontaneous breakdowns there are groups of people (engineers, managers, politicians) who form a very temporary alliance to benefit from this imbalance. You might think there is no oversight which in a general sense is true. But informally there are always others (other engineers, business managers, rival politicians) who are also looking to turn in those who might benefit from these imbalances. So a sort of defacto oversight agency or corruption agency is formed. Of course it's not for the common good but to be able to garnish enough proof to turn in those responsible, be able to get their positions and engage in a similar practice when the conditions merit the opportunity. At times they are bought off and at other times they are not. Basically there is no rigid established group of cronies always engaging in these shenanigans. It could never be so blatant. There is some justice meted out even here in the DR esp. when it comes out in the open. Of course this is just one aspect of a very complex problem.

When you throw in the poor (80% of the populace) who cannot pay at any price thus the subsidy, the foreign companies, the fuel costs, the sliding peso and inability of a stable dollar/peso figure it plummets the electrical issue to an equation which only Hawkings can solve. I have only given the dominican side of it from those I have spoken to alongside my grandfather of course. It is very fascinating to hear the things that occur as a result of old equipment. At least no one can say that as a people, we dominicans are not creative.

 

[Onions&carrots]

You're real funny

The country has been upside down for as long as anyone can remember. And I don't think anyone can remember a time when there was stable electricity facilitating industrial and technological progress.

The people selling inverters and plantas are not getting as rich as you might believe, I aughta know because I am one of them. The government takes MUCH more between sales tax, exchange commission and import duties than any distributor could hope to mark up products.

The problem will not go away until the subsidies are removed and NO ONE is entitled to free electricity. If people are too poor to pay for electricity, then they must try to limit their consumption or else do without for 24 hrs/day instead of the current 16 hrs/day like their ancestors did. I bet you anything they will come up with the cash to pay for electricity.

But this is not going to happen. Any party that eliminates subsidies will lose too much popularity, the domincan people have been conditioned to believe that getting free stuff is the answer to their problems and the political parties are playing along claiming to want to help poor people and then working overtime to keep people poor so they can keep helping them.

All of the things that would improve life in the DR for Dominicans are things that will most likely never happen:

1) Complete elimination of all subsidies that do not directly contribute to developing infrastructure, employment and education. This is not a short term solution, the benefits will most likely not be felt for at least 20 years and in the meantime the leaders who institute the change will be very unpopular.

2) General reduction of ITBIS accompanied by enforcement of payment of the tax that targets even the smallest colmados. The government estimates that evasion of sales tax is somewhere near 41%, I believe it may be much higher. so if evasion could be reduced to near zero while the tax itself was halved this would actually increase the governments revenue from the tax while at the same time extending the average household's purchasing power near 10% and stimulating trade.

3) Enforcement of property tax targeting even the wealthy families that own nearly 90% of the land in the country. This could be a tremendous source of revenue for the government and would also greatly increase development since these wealthy land owners could no longer afford to let huge expanses of land sit fallow for generation after generation. It would also reduce the need for people to build houses along the highway with front porches that extend out into the street.

4) Local law enforcement chapters headed by locally elected officials. If police chiefs at each "destacamento" were elected by local residents every 4 years and confirmed every 2 instead of appointed by some faraway politician looking for favors this would greatly inhibit corruption and most likely greatly increase efficiency in combatting crime. Yes there would still be some problems, but it would be the responsibility of every individual community to change things for the better.

There are lots more, but they are never going to happen, so whats the point?

If anyone were to ATTEMPT to implement these wonderful ideas he would lose his position in the DR and sent into exile. Hahahaha nice try, too radical, corrosive and ridiculous. The wealthy are tied in with the corruption. The problem is the wealthy don't see it as corruption. It's just business dominican style. I believe one thing which angers well established wealthy dominican families when foreigners bring their ideas on how to remedy the DR's ills. If there was no ability to be creative or corrupt in your terms, do you have any idea how many wealthy families would disappear? So your ideas can be consigned to the Hall of Fame for Rubbish Ideas. This is ingrained in the history of the DR. What can be done is ameliorate the plight of the lowest socio-eco parts of the DR for votes. In our lifetime there will never be such a radical change as you envision. So keep dreaming.

 

[MrMike]

If anyone were to ATTEMPT to implement these wonderful ideas he would lose his position in the DR and sent into exile. Hahahaha nice try, too radical, corrosive and ridiculous. The wealthy are tied in with the corruption. The problem is the wealthy don't see it as corruption. It's just business dominican style. I believe one thing which angers well established wealthy dominican families when foreigners bring their ideas on how to remedy the DR's ills. If there was no ability to be creative or corrupt in your terms, do you have any idea how many wealthy families would disappear? So your ideas can be consigned to the Hall of Fame for Rubbish Ideas. This is ingrained in the history of the DR. What can be done is ameliorate the plight of the lowest socio-eco parts of the DR for votes. In our lifetime there will never be such a radical change as you envision. So keep dreaming.

Odd. Most of your post paraphrases mine, but at the same time you are disagreeing with me. Doesn't that make your neck hurt?

I know my ideas will never be implemented, so whether they are good or bad is actually irrelevant.

But I do perceive a faint and distant glimmer of hope. You see, the reason wealthy Dominican families don't see these things as corruption is because they don't really see the lower economic strata of the country as human beings, and certainly have no concept of equality. The world is getting less and less friendly to this kind of attitude, so there is a small chance things will change eventually.