Best path to Spanish

[chrisgy]

The same approach doesnt work for everyone but one thing I can assure you is that Vocabulary is not the most important part, the verbs are. You will never approach a comfort zone in the spanish language if you dont expand beyond speaking in the present tense. And for this I recommend structured classroom if at all possible, if not then one on one with a tutor, if those two are not possible then try it on your own by purchasing one of the spanish language materials books that the high schools use. Try Amazon.com fpr someones old material.

If you ever become competent in Spanish verb tenses, it will be like when you first learnt to ride a bike. And the vocab you'll pick up with social interaction (including the chicas) reading and listening to news, sports etc .

Good luck!

 

[Wishing you well]

"you don't make no sense at all", she said. "Anyone can see that a chair ain't no woman."

ROFLMAO.....and there you have it.

 

[Uzin]

Expat13, I think there are many people in the same boat as you, me included. If someone would come up with a method for us they would get rich quick....

The thing is I have studies Spanish for many years, on and off, and I'm told by an experience Spanish teacher that I am about upper intermediate. I speak in Spanish more than half the time here, I speak with all the Dominicans, they tell me my Spanish is terrible but they say they can understand everything I want to say - somehow !

Those suggesting talking to chicas to learn Spanish not realising we are not beginners, that might help beginners but chicas as in ordinary people do not help you at all with your Spanish if you are at intermediate level or higher. Most people I come across have no idea about grammar of their own language and don't even understand what subjunctive is ?! (same for many English speakers I guess !) !? They are hardly trained to help you and correct you properly, explaining the issues you have, they get tired and won't repeat things or try to explain a vocabulary in a different way. Or tell you the rule they just used and expand the concept so you can actually learn it properly and use it later.

I make a mistake sometime (small one, but an obvious error in language) and when I realise it I tell them, ah, sorry I should have said it this way. They tell me, Oh, we thought they speak Spanish like that where you come from !? lol. So you see, how can they correct me like this if they are not sure of the correct Spanish themselves.

I occasionally pick up a book or go on internet and see the grammar and vocabulary there and say, damn, I know all this but why can't I use it when I speak, or when I listen, why don't I understand - so I get bored quickly and give it up.

I think, and that is only an opinion/idea, for us the best way is to find a professional teacher that can custom make lessons to concentrate on specific areas where we have issues and help us with those. That means not to follow a book or the standard syllables, but flexible learning approach. As I said there isn't much of the rules of the language that I don't know, but I can't integrate that knowledge and apply it to my use of Spanish. Although this is probably quite expensive (one-to-one lessons) but I think it should work.

Basically, I am told you make a big leap when you start learning a language but then at the higher levels the learning slows down and if not properly picked up it just flattens out and you hardly improve at all - that is where we are I guess !

Alternatively a very educated, non-teacher, who knows her Spanish at higher standard than normal, might also help, should be patient, understanding and up for the task.... but where do you find a chica like that here !?!?

Keeps us posted how you get on....

 

[jabejuventus]

One of the great human frailties is looking for and depending on crutches. We can then blame the crutch for our failures. My suggested solution in post #10 takes this into account. Learning another language is a very difficult and lifelong endeavor. I still strive to improve all facets of English and Spanish. You must grab "the bull by the horns." This way the onus is fully on you. This, on its own, is a subtle form of self-motivation. Buena suerte.

 

[LTSteve]

After living here off/on for 5 years I think my Spanish may be getting worse. Its my fault of course, over the past 3 years I have done very little to no business in the DR, its all on the outside-which is good! The downside is I don't need to use/practice/learn Spanish much because of this and time is not a luxury so hard to allocate the time.
Im looking for advice as to the best way to learn Spanish, from those here who have done it. To further explain, if I was to rate Spanish levels from 1-10 where 10 is a fluent but not native perfect fluent.
I would say now I am probably a 4-5 which is part of my problem, its hard to decide what course and where to start. Nobody wants to fight thru the basics after being around the language for years as its a time waster and eventually you get bored and quit.
Keep in mind this question is for a 45 year old not a youngster who can pick up languages easy.

I would appreciate all thoughts, recommendations, courses etc.

Are you living in the DR? If so, take a course for intermediate speakers or hire a private tudor. You don't sound very committed to learning the language. You will probably not do it on your own. You need to go to a class that forces you to study and interact with other people.

 

[william webster]

I still need to master the .... past pluperfect passive...... in both languages.

 

[Aguaita29]

What you need is to be exposed to Spanish from different sources, every day. I suggest, first, you enroll in a regular class, taught with a text book. This gives you structure, a sense of a beginning and an ending" a gradual exposure to new levels of grammar and vocabulary. The basics is the most important thing in any language. Even if your level is intermediate, you may have a weak foundation, and you will find yourself struggling forever.

Then you need to complement your class with a video course, reading, watching tv in Spanish (no Dominican tv), listening to music, talking to people. Spanish needs to be a part of your life. You need to change your cell phone and email settings into Spanish; This can be hard at first, but then you get used to it.

I think the chica, as your only source for learning, is a terrible idea. Do you really think want to learn to talk and spell from someone who can't spell or speak well?

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

I can agree with Aguaita on this. A book will give you some structure and a basic vocabulary. Conversational practice of any sort is useful, but variety, especially including with more educated speakers, is preferable. The idea that anyone who speaks a language is also qualified to teach that language is very questionable. If you team up with another person who wants to learn English, they will almost certainly be a more effective at teaching you conversation about a variety of topics.

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

The same approach doesnt work for everyone but one thing I can assure you is that Vocabulary is not the most important part, the verbs are. You will never approach a comfort zone in the spanish language if you dont expand beyond speaking in the present tense.
============================================
There is no "Most important part". Vocabulary is important, and so are verbs. There are two essential aspects to learning a language (1) the words and (2) what to do with the words (grammar -different forms of the words and syntax-where to put the words in proper order) If you know the present, the imperfect and preterite tense and the ir + a periphrastic future tense (Voy a ver a mi familia la semana que entra), you will be intelligible at least. The most common verbs are irregular, as in English: ser, estar, ir, haber, tener, dar, saber, etc. There are patterns within these that you will pick up with practice, just as in English.

Flashcards (you may write the verb conjugations on the cards) are the most effective and rapid way to learn vocabulary, Grammar and syntax (including pluralization and verb conjugations) you learn with conversation and pattern drills (sentences in which you change the verb tense or make the sentence plural). You will find pattern drills in any good textbook. Do not worry about using an old textbook: the Spanish language, like English, has not changed greatly in the last 50 years.

 

[bob saunders]

I can agree with Aguaita on this. A book will give you some structure and a basic vocabulary. Conversational practice of any sort is useful, but variety, especially including with more educated speakers, is preferable. The idea that anyone who speaks a language is also qualified to teach that language is very questionable. If you team up with another person who wants to learn English, they will almost certainly be a more effective at teaching you conversation about a variety of topics.

I practice with our secretary, as my wife says she speaks properly. She has a clear voice and when she slows down I understand much of what she says, and she is at more or less the same level of English as my Spanish. She corrects me and I correct her. Currently my wife's cousin daughter is visiting from Colombia and she is easier to understand than most Dominicans, so I practise with her as well. I think having a wife that speaks English actually makes learning Spanish harder because we speak English together most of the time because it's easier, and I'm lazy.
I have a large variety of books and tapes and I find for grammar/verb tenses the Practise Makes Perfect by Dorothy Richmond a very practical set of books.

 

[Africaida]

I can agree with Aguaita on this. A book will give you some structure and a basic vocabulary. Conversational practice of any sort is useful, but variety, especially including with more educated speakers, is preferable. The idea that anyone who speaks a language is also qualified to teach that language is very questionable. If you team up with another person who wants to learn English, they will almost certainly be a more effective at teaching you conversation about a variety of topics.

So true ! Often, I am asked questions about things by French learners, I can never explain why or the rules. I don't really remember they come naturally as a native.

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

People who speak a language rarely understand the actual descriptive grammar of their native language.

For example, how many genders does English have? The correct answer is FOUR.

To wit:

1 masculine nouns and pronouns he, man, stallion, lion
2 feminine nouns and pronouns: she, woman, mare, lioness
3 common gender: there is a gender, but we do not mention it: it, dog, cat, horse, duck, chicken
4 neuter: things that have no sexual gender: rock, mountain, box.

some things have gendered and common gender forms: hen/rooster or cock, chicken
doe/stag, deer.
ships are feminine as an exception and are referred to with the pronoun she by seafaring types.
there are some adjectives that generally refer to feminine entities: beautiful, pretty
others generally refer to only masculine entities: handsome, studly, macho.

Practice Makes Perfect is a useful series of language books.
The only ones I would not recommend are the cheapie Pimsleur CDs and cassettes. They are not inaccurate, they are just rather useless for most language learners. Pimsleur was a French teacher in California who died long ago. His name has been purchased (as was Berlitz's) by marketeers who are more interested in making a quick buck than in teaching languages. I have seen Pimsleurs long and tedious series of online ads that claim that college professors HATE Pimsleur. This is nonsense: Pimsleur is respected. But the guys peddling his wares , them I consider bogus marketeers. The long series of Pimsleur programs, are, like Rosetta Stone, effective but greatly overpriced.
Rosetta Stone makes frequent appearances in garage and yard sale, as do nice new picture frames, exercise gizmos and car polish. There are a LOT of people who make the resolution that THIS YEAR is the year, and then run out of gumption to fame the photos, lose weight, wax the car and learn a language.

 

[Africaida]

My hardest construction is I guess called the conditional. "If I had known you were here I would have visited earlier." No idea how to say that in Spanish.

For me too ! I say it but I know it s wrong, lol

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

"If I had known you were here I would have visited earlier."
Si yo hubiera sabido que estabas aqu?, te habr?a visitado antes.
Or even more elegante: Si me hubiese enterado que estabas, te hubiera visitado antes.
Use the pluperfect subjunctive in the conditional clause (the if clause), and the pluperfect conditional in the result clause (the then clause).
In Spain you will hear the second form of the pluperfect subjunctive in the if clause and the primary form of the pluperfect conditional in the then clause.
pluperfect is also called the past perfect. PERFECT refers in grammar to completed actions. In this case to hypothetical completed actions.
The subjunctive is used for contrary to fact situations.

If I were you, I would not kick the dog.
Si yo fuera Ud, no le dar?a patadas al perro.
Many people avoid this by saying Yo, en su lugar, no la dar?a patadas al perro.

 

[Africaida]

Thanks XO ! These are my pet peeves, I can't remember for the life of me, the correct tense to use in the second clause (especially when I am speaking).

Then Si yo sabia, te habria visitado antes is wrong ?
It confuses me because I tend to rely on French and in French it would be correct. I know I need to hit the books

 

[jabejuventus]

Nice command XO, but you're going to scare XPat away. Keep it simple, under your own control, and outside of the box. Structure is good but creating your own structure is better (and less expensive in cost and time).

 

[Marianopolita]

What you need is to be exposed to Spanish from different sources, every day. I suggest, first, you enroll in a regular class, taught with a text book. This gives you structure, a sense of a beginning and an ending" a gradual exposure to new levels of grammar and vocabulary. The basics is the most important thing in any language. Even if your level is intermediate, you may have a weak foundation, and you will find yourself struggling forever.

Then you need to complement your class with a video course, reading, watching tv in Spanish (no Dominican tv), listening to music, talking to people. Spanish needs to be a part of your life. You need to change your cell phone and email settings into Spanish; This can be hard at first, but then you get used to it.

I think the chica, as your only source for learning, is a terrible idea. Do you really think want to learn to talk and spell from someone who can't spell or speak well?

Excellent- everything you said.


-MP.

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

Thanks XO ! These are my pet peeves, I can't remember for the life of me, the correct tense to use in the second clause (especially when I am speaking).

Then Si yo sabia, te habria visitado antes is wrong ?
It confuses me because I tend to rely on French and in French it would be correct. I know I need to hit the books

=================================================
I am not sure about French, but in Spanish if a perfect tense (the verg haber+ past participle) is used in the resuly=t clause, it should be used in the If clause.
Si yo hubiera sabido, te habr?a visitado antes. Like that.

Spanish uses the past subjunctive in contrary to fact statements.

If I were you, I would not kick the puppy. (not that English uses WERE to indicate contrary to fact. Many people say If I was you, because they donlt read or study ot something.
Si yo fuera t?, no le dar?a patadas al perrito.

 

[bob saunders]

Reverso gives this translation: Si yo estuviera en su situaci?n, yo no dar?a patadas el cachorro

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

I am the one that would not kick the puppy, remember, talking to a hypothetical puppykicker.