- Thread starter Funnyyale26
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Can someone please explain to me WTH is wrong w/ Salcedo?
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It would sure be much nicer if the DR could find its own identity and start working with its own strength and beauty. Imitation is so boring!
I don't like palm trees planted instead of native vegetation as it is short-sighted. Just before hurricane season as HB said ...
I also do not like the rainforests cut down for the benefit of everyone excepting the people who live there.
The native vegetation of the DR is gloriously beautiful. Why try to look like someone else when the beauty in the country is already breathtaking?
If anyone wants to see palm trees, just go travel a little .. there are stack of them, and I agree they also are beautiful. But cutting down full-grown native trees and replacing them with non-native palms. Geez!
Well I meant immitation in terms of social-economic policies. I have said it before and again, if countries like Singapore that dont have tons of resources (a country that doesnt even have rivers for god's sake!) was able to emerge from the bottom, why cant we? But yes, I totally agree with you that the culture should be preserved.
back to the trees. This is nothing new...people get caught up with nostalgia and want things to be "natural" and they want all the things that were brought in taken away and replaced once again with this natural "thing"
and i cant help but think of the analogy of the american Northeast in its attempt to bring back the natural marsh wetlands of the coast. They were filled in , ( for various reasons, some to build houses to make someone more wealthy) or they were trenched for mosquito control...
but SOMEONE wasnt happy about that.
as is the case on EVERYTHING in life...
there are usually more than just a few views on the matter.
well they put the marshes back to the way they used to be.. and now along comes West nile virus and we are back into that vicous cycle again...fighting over what to do...natural or "other"
this is the same thing with these trees in Santo Domingo...there are more than just one VIEW!!!!!!!!
SOME people liked the non native trees...BUT some wanted it to be "natural" again....
and to get their way, they have to upset others.
what to do?
know that any decision will leave some happy and some not...
bob
and i cant help but think of the analogy of the american Northeast in its attempt to bring back the natural marsh wetlands of the coast. They were filled in , ( for various reasons, some to build houses to make someone more wealthy) or they were trenched for mosquito control...
but SOMEONE wasnt happy about that.
as is the case on EVERYTHING in life...
there are usually more than just a few views on the matter.
well they put the marshes back to the way they used to be.. and now along comes West nile virus and we are back into that vicous cycle again...fighting over what to do...natural or "other"
this is the same thing with these trees in Santo Domingo...there are more than just one VIEW!!!!!!!!
SOME people liked the non native trees...BUT some wanted it to be "natural" again....
and to get their way, they have to upset others.
what to do?
know that any decision will leave some happy and some not...
bob
A little over dramatic don't you think? Give the guy a break he is by far the best Mayor Santo Domingo has probably had, at least that I can remember.
As far as Miami and Palm trees? I wonder who is the original and who is a copy?
Last time I checked this island is full of palm trees and it IS part of our identity as a caribbean island and part of our trade mark, just check Punta Cana which was named after a native palm tree which also adorns the roof of just about every hotel or tourist hut on the island.
For those who feel the need to make a more educated opinion on what is being done in Santo Domingo read the following:
ADN: Ayuntamiento del Distrito Nacional - Santo Domingo Verde
I don't care if the RD is an Island and palm trees are everywhere, I already know that. You guys are forgetting that cutting the trees increases the temperature of the city which is already a burning hell. Forget it, there is no argument that someone is going to come up with that justifies cutting trees without discrimination.
Hey Bob, yes, people think differently of course.
For me, the issue is more around maintaining biodiversity. The reasons for that has been kicked to death but two examples come to mind .. the kudzu problem in the Southern US (non-native species) ... and one that many of us know and is frequently used as an example of the dangers of a non-biodiverse environment .. the failure of the potato crop in some previous century in Ireland. It is commonly accepted that this happened because the biodiverse nature of the environment was messed with - one type of crop all over and also a non-native species.
The issue of biodiversity is hotly discussed amongst the environmentalist crowd .. examples are ... seedbanks that are springing up to maintain heritage seeds .. and the current popularity of old grains like spelt (a very old Egyptian origin wheat grain - people that are gluten intolerent, frequently do well on spelt). Apparently over 2,000 seeds are 'declassified' (i.e., they don't maintain it any longer - I don't have the right word) from the two companies in North America that are the biggest seed sellers.
So, what is happening on the ground, is that organizations are starting seedbanks to maintain biodiversity. I must have been to 5 heritage seed swops in the last two months. It truly is a hot issue.
In this instance, they're cutting down trees. Not a 'cool' thing - pun not intended.
Chris please read the link that I provided in my previous post, you will see that this was not just thought up over the weekend and it is being done for reasons you are stating yourself. There is a list of foreign species which are being cut down and prohibited and it's not true that they are replanting with only palm trees.
As far as the OP goes, if you have a personal agenda, than don't read the Santo Domingo verde project on the link I provided and continue your uninformed rant.
A popular thing among Dominican expatriates is to denigrate anything any Dominican government does in the DR and then compare it to what they perceive is done where they live, for most New York City, or some other country they may be idealizing.
For example, not long ago I had a discussion with a friend who decided to rant about why so many roads in the DR are unpaved and how that is neglect from the government. To me the number of potholes in the roads that are paved is a sign of neglect, the number of unpaved roads in and of itself is not, especially once you compare the statistics and ratio of paved roads to unpaved roads in the DR vs more advanced countries. He compared that to what he perceived the US to be (based on his experience in the NY metro area) of "all the roads being paved".
I know that's BS. The entire road system in the U.S. is roughly 60 to 70% paved (based on statistics from the US government itself) and the rest is unpaved road. It is an unevenly distributed system in which metropolitan regions tend to have a much better infrastructure than rural areas, thus in heavily urbanized areas (where Dominicans tend to concentrate) all roads are pretty much paved.
However, there are plenty of unpaved roads in rural areas of the US; but most Dominicans expatriates believe all roads in the US are paved because they have not seen an unpaved road in the US. You would be surprised how often they are "shocked" when they see equestrian centers and livestock in rural areas of New York and Connecticut when they thought that only exists in Santo Domingo.
I've been to rural towns in Westchester county, NY where every other residential road is unpaved; and these are wealthy little towns but very rural in look and feel.
But to explain this to these people is to no avail. Until they don't see it, they won't believe it and when they do see it, they rationalize why the unpaved roads in rural USA are better than the unpaved roads in the DR. Nevermind the fact that to me an improved unpaved road looks the same whether its in the US or the DR.
And by the way, these are college educated people I'm talking about, not your average limited educated Dominican.
With the OP we have the reverse. She wants Santo Domingo to not look American, but to look like New Zealand or China or Taiwan or where ever. Of course, she never mentions that the DR should look like the DR.
I think this is a silly debate.
If they were cutting down trees and not replanting new ones, well that's quite a debate. But, they are simply swaping introduced species for native ones.
What should anyone do?
Check and see what type of trees shade your street, if any.
Then, check if which are native and which are not.
For the trees that are non-native, take chair, put it under such non-native tree, sit and enjoy the shade while you can.
-NALs
For example, not long ago I had a discussion with a friend who decided to rant about why so many roads in the DR are unpaved and how that is neglect from the government. To me the number of potholes in the roads that are paved is a sign of neglect, the number of unpaved roads in and of itself is not, especially once you compare the statistics and ratio of paved roads to unpaved roads in the DR vs more advanced countries. He compared that to what he perceived the US to be (based on his experience in the NY metro area) of "all the roads being paved".
I know that's BS. The entire road system in the U.S. is roughly 60 to 70% paved (based on statistics from the US government itself) and the rest is unpaved road. It is an unevenly distributed system in which metropolitan regions tend to have a much better infrastructure than rural areas, thus in heavily urbanized areas (where Dominicans tend to concentrate) all roads are pretty much paved.
However, there are plenty of unpaved roads in rural areas of the US; but most Dominicans expatriates believe all roads in the US are paved because they have not seen an unpaved road in the US. You would be surprised how often they are "shocked" when they see equestrian centers and livestock in rural areas of New York and Connecticut when they thought that only exists in Santo Domingo.
I've been to rural towns in Westchester county, NY where every other residential road is unpaved; and these are wealthy little towns but very rural in look and feel.
But to explain this to these people is to no avail. Until they don't see it, they won't believe it and when they do see it, they rationalize why the unpaved roads in rural USA are better than the unpaved roads in the DR. Nevermind the fact that to me an improved unpaved road looks the same whether its in the US or the DR.
And by the way, these are college educated people I'm talking about, not your average limited educated Dominican.
With the OP we have the reverse. She wants Santo Domingo to not look American, but to look like New Zealand or China or Taiwan or where ever. Of course, she never mentions that the DR should look like the DR.
I think this is a silly debate.
If they were cutting down trees and not replanting new ones, well that's quite a debate. But, they are simply swaping introduced species for native ones.
What should anyone do?
Check and see what type of trees shade your street, if any.
Then, check if which are native and which are not.
For the trees that are non-native, take chair, put it under such non-native tree, sit and enjoy the shade while you can.
-NALs
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NATIVE TREES THAT DONT GIVE ANY BENEFIT TO THE WELL BEING OF SANTO DOMINGO RESIDENTS. Punta Cana and all the beaches of DR are full of palm trees, fine. Why didnt they re plant the city w/ Caoba or arrayan, why plant PALMS THAT
DONT GIVE any SHADDDDDEEEEE
BREEEEZZZEEE (BRISA)
REDUCE NOISE LEVVEEELLLLLL
CLEAN THE AIRRRRRRRR that is contaminated already
I have the impression that you have very little knowledge of the environment. This action is going to affect all Dominicans, not just one. This isn't going to be solved by me hiding under a shade, because one action can affect us all. I am tired of explaining the reasons why trees shouldn't be cut down ...and since you didnt read ....
I don't want my country to be a little New York, or a little Paris or a little Miami. I want my city to be SD. But I want my country to adopt the good and sound economic, social, environmental policies and laws that have worked in other countries. AM I being an inconsiderate, vende patria, communist who doesn't want progress?
DONT GIVE any SHADDDDDEEEEE
BREEEEZZZEEE (BRISA)
REDUCE NOISE LEVVEEELLLLLL
CLEAN THE AIRRRRRRRR that is contaminated already
I have the impression that you have very little knowledge of the environment. This action is going to affect all Dominicans, not just one. This isn't going to be solved by me hiding under a shade, because one action can affect us all. I am tired of explaining the reasons why trees shouldn't be cut down ...and since you didnt read ....
I don't want my country to be a little New York, or a little Paris or a little Miami. I want my city to be SD. But I want my country to adopt the good and sound economic, social, environmental policies and laws that have worked in other countries. AM I being an inconsiderate, vende patria, communist who doesn't want progress?
Salcedo is doing a good job on most counts, but there are a number of inexplicable projects where things that ain't broke are being fixed at great cost, while other priorities are not addressed.
The central reservations in the best parts of town, like Lincoln, Churchill, Betancourt and Sarasota Avenues which were already in good shape and nicely planted have been dug up and re-done - there is only one conclusion one can reach.
The same goes for the palm trees - don't get me wrong, I love palm trees, but why don't they plant them in places where there are no trees? All that stuff about 'native species' is a complete smokescreen, IMO.
If they were a little less blatant and gave their cronies contracts for work that actually needs doing then maybe there would be fewer complaints.
The central reservations in the best parts of town, like Lincoln, Churchill, Betancourt and Sarasota Avenues which were already in good shape and nicely planted have been dug up and re-done - there is only one conclusion one can reach.
The same goes for the palm trees - don't get me wrong, I love palm trees, but why don't they plant them in places where there are no trees? All that stuff about 'native species' is a complete smokescreen, IMO.
If they were a little less blatant and gave their cronies contracts for work that actually needs doing then maybe there would be fewer complaints.
Oh my where to start
Funnyyale26
I am dominican who lives in the states. I am aware that this is nothing new, I just wished it was different and that the government immitate things that are from other countries, just not the US. I don't know how to explain it but I am just sad that the country is going in the same direction as Mexico with all the malls, the All inclusive resorts, etc...
How long have you lived in the US? I assume NYC. You need to visit Mexico, as its not all drug lords, and resorts. Some very poor areas, that make some of the poor areas of the DR look like paradise!
THEN TELL YOUR (effing) GOV't TO STOP EXPLOTING MY COUNTRY AND THE REST OF LATIN AMERICA WITH HYPOCRITICAL TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT DONT BENEFIT US. THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE TO COME TO YOUR COUNTRY, BECAUSE YOUR GOVERNMENT is part of the reason why we are so f*^$ up and has invaded us and has influenced our politicians. I dont discount the fact that we've have monsters that we have inherited from Spain but the US is a big part of why Latin America is not free.
Do You vote in the US? Most of the business's here are not US owned, they are Europe, Yes the US invaded twice. The Dr did not have to sign CAFTA, and if your worried about the benefits, move back here and make the changes, Your politicians have not been influenced that much by the US, or they would know how to hide their crap better. You have not really inherited monsters from any where, as they are self made. Just got some of their ideas from elsewhere
You don't have to tell me what to do ok? The fact of the matter, american, is that are many things wrong w/ your culture and I don't want my country to absorb those things, period. I did not say I hate americans, I hope that one day our country changes for the better...Why cant we START immitating ASIAN countries, or New Zealand.
Yep lots wrong in the good old USA, but can't stop most of the absorbtion, and it comes in via TV, those nice dominicans that were deported, etc. Have you been to Asian Countries or New Zealand?
Well I meant immitation in terms of social-economic policies. I have said it before and again, if countries like Singapore that dont have tons of resources (a country that doesnt even have rivers for god's sake!) was able to emerge from the bottom, why cant we? But yes, I totally agree with you that the culture should be preserved.
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Singapore From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Singapore is a popular travel destination, making tourism one of its largest industries. About 9.7 million tourists visited Singapore in 2006.[35] The Singaporean government hopes to have at least 17 million visitor arrivals by 2015. The Orchard Road district is the centre of shopping hub in Singapore. To attract more tourists, the government decided in 2005 to legalise gambling and to allow two Integrated Resorts to be developed at Marina South and Sentosa.[36] Other than the Integrated Resort, about 15 new developments are coming up, which include the Singapore Flyer, which would be the largest ferris wheel in the world, the Gardens by the Bay and a 280-metre Double Helix Bridge connecting tourist attractions in and around Marina Bay. Cuisine has been heavily promoted as an attraction for tourists, with the Singapore Food Festival in July organized annually to celebrate Singapore's cuisine. In 2008, Formula One racing will return when the Singapore Grand Prix will resume, having not been held since 1972. The circuit will be the first night-time race in Formula One's history.
An artist impression of the future skyline of the Central Business DistrictTo compete with its many rivals such as Hong Kong, Tokyo and Shanghai, the Urban Redevelopment Authority of Singapore has announced that the city would be transformed into a more vibrant and exciting place with more buzz by lighting up the city completely. The purpose of this is to attract more tourists.
Hell we can't even keep the lights on in part of the City of Santo Domingo let alone the rest of the stuff.
I don't care if the RD is an Island and palm trees are everywhere, I already know that. You guys are forgetting that cutting the trees increases the temperature of the city which is already a burning hell. Forget it, there is no argument that someone is going to come up with that justifies cutting trees without discrimination.
Agree that the trees probably dont need cut down, but the City is a burning hell (your words) even in the areas that don't have the trees cut. Naco and Pantini are just as hot as the Colonial Zone, but it not because of the trees, blame the pavement, and highrise buildings.
I don't want my country to be a little New York, or a little Paris or a little Miami. I want my city to be SD. But I want my country to adopt the good and sound economic, social, environmental policies and laws that have worked in other countries. AM I being an inconsiderate, vende patria, communist who doesn't want progress?
No your hiding from reality!
Funnyyale26
I am dominican who lives in the states. I am aware that this is nothing new, I just wished it was different and that the government immitate things that are from other countries, just not the US. I don't know how to explain it but I am just sad that the country is going in the same direction as Mexico with all the malls, the All inclusive resorts, etc...
How long have you lived in the US? I assume NYC. You need to visit Mexico, as its not all drug lords, and resorts. Some very poor areas, that make some of the poor areas of the DR look like paradise!
THEN TELL YOUR (effing) GOV't TO STOP EXPLOTING MY COUNTRY AND THE REST OF LATIN AMERICA WITH HYPOCRITICAL TRADE AGREEMENTS THAT DONT BENEFIT US. THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE TO COME TO YOUR COUNTRY, BECAUSE YOUR GOVERNMENT is part of the reason why we are so f*^$ up and has invaded us and has influenced our politicians. I dont discount the fact that we've have monsters that we have inherited from Spain but the US is a big part of why Latin America is not free.
Do You vote in the US? Most of the business's here are not US owned, they are Europe, Yes the US invaded twice. The Dr did not have to sign CAFTA, and if your worried about the benefits, move back here and make the changes, Your politicians have not been influenced that much by the US, or they would know how to hide their crap better. You have not really inherited monsters from any where, as they are self made. Just got some of their ideas from elsewhere
You don't have to tell me what to do ok? The fact of the matter, american, is that are many things wrong w/ your culture and I don't want my country to absorb those things, period. I did not say I hate americans, I hope that one day our country changes for the better...Why cant we START immitating ASIAN countries, or New Zealand.
Yep lots wrong in the good old USA, but can't stop most of the absorbtion, and it comes in via TV, those nice dominicans that were deported, etc. Have you been to Asian Countries or New Zealand?
Well I meant immitation in terms of social-economic policies. I have said it before and again, if countries like Singapore that dont have tons of resources (a country that doesnt even have rivers for god's sake!) was able to emerge from the bottom, why cant we? But yes, I totally agree with you that the culture should be preserved.
Copied from
Singapore From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Singapore is a popular travel destination, making tourism one of its largest industries. About 9.7 million tourists visited Singapore in 2006.[35] The Singaporean government hopes to have at least 17 million visitor arrivals by 2015. The Orchard Road district is the centre of shopping hub in Singapore. To attract more tourists, the government decided in 2005 to legalise gambling and to allow two Integrated Resorts to be developed at Marina South and Sentosa.[36] Other than the Integrated Resort, about 15 new developments are coming up, which include the Singapore Flyer, which would be the largest ferris wheel in the world, the Gardens by the Bay and a 280-metre Double Helix Bridge connecting tourist attractions in and around Marina Bay. Cuisine has been heavily promoted as an attraction for tourists, with the Singapore Food Festival in July organized annually to celebrate Singapore's cuisine. In 2008, Formula One racing will return when the Singapore Grand Prix will resume, having not been held since 1972. The circuit will be the first night-time race in Formula One's history.
An artist impression of the future skyline of the Central Business DistrictTo compete with its many rivals such as Hong Kong, Tokyo and Shanghai, the Urban Redevelopment Authority of Singapore has announced that the city would be transformed into a more vibrant and exciting place with more buzz by lighting up the city completely. The purpose of this is to attract more tourists.
Hell we can't even keep the lights on in part of the City of Santo Domingo let alone the rest of the stuff.
I don't care if the RD is an Island and palm trees are everywhere, I already know that. You guys are forgetting that cutting the trees increases the temperature of the city which is already a burning hell. Forget it, there is no argument that someone is going to come up with that justifies cutting trees without discrimination.
Agree that the trees probably dont need cut down, but the City is a burning hell (your words) even in the areas that don't have the trees cut. Naco and Pantini are just as hot as the Colonial Zone, but it not because of the trees, blame the pavement, and highrise buildings.
I don't want my country to be a little New York, or a little Paris or a little Miami. I want my city to be SD. But I want my country to adopt the good and sound economic, social, environmental policies and laws that have worked in other countries. AM I being an inconsiderate, vende patria, communist who doesn't want progress?
No your hiding from reality!
I am hiding from reality? I am hiding from reality?
Read this article that appear in today's Clave digital. Seems like I am not the only one who doesn't buy el cuento de ese "Santo Domingo Verde Plan". One thing is what they wrote in that plan and another thing is what the are actually putting in practice.
Just some excerpts
Ayuntamiento tiene buen discurso sobre arborizaci?n, pero muy mala pr?ctica
Now tell me if I am hiding from reality.
Read this article that appear in today's Clave digital. Seems like I am not the only one who doesn't buy el cuento de ese "Santo Domingo Verde Plan". One thing is what they wrote in that plan and another thing is what the are actually putting in practice.
Just some excerpts
Ayuntamiento tiene buen discurso sobre arborizaci?n, pero muy mala pr?ctica
Now tell me if I am hiding from reality.
"Well, Miami is seen as the civilized version of what a tropical Latin American city should look like, so it will be copied from Cancun, Mexico to Punta del Este, Uruguay. It's the "in" thing to do."
Sorry bud, but "Punta", or Uruguay in General has been planting palms, which are native for well over a century, and not copying Miami - although I'll admit that the Conrad is straight out of Miami and ugly. Anyhow Uruguay is a different case, it doesn't have the intense heat all year round, and severe storms that Santo Domingo does. Palms are great to look at, but are crap for anyone who doesnt have a car and would like a little place to rest in the shade. It does make a difference, tell me where you'd rather be at 1pm in the sun or in the shade? Native or not, I don't see why replacing already existing trees with pretier reasons has any logic. The shade factor is a very valid argument, but if someone doesn't walk the streets, or never goes anywhere without their car, I can see why someone wouldn't buy that argument, thought most of the popuation of Santo Domingo would see that as a very valid argument
Sorry bud, but "Punta", or Uruguay in General has been planting palms, which are native for well over a century, and not copying Miami - although I'll admit that the Conrad is straight out of Miami and ugly. Anyhow Uruguay is a different case, it doesn't have the intense heat all year round, and severe storms that Santo Domingo does. Palms are great to look at, but are crap for anyone who doesnt have a car and would like a little place to rest in the shade. It does make a difference, tell me where you'd rather be at 1pm in the sun or in the shade? Native or not, I don't see why replacing already existing trees with pretier reasons has any logic. The shade factor is a very valid argument, but if someone doesn't walk the streets, or never goes anywhere without their car, I can see why someone wouldn't buy that argument, thought most of the popuation of Santo Domingo would see that as a very valid argument
Looks as if this is going to be a new trend around the country....
Puerto Plata tambi?n critica palmas
SANTIAGO. Decenas de ?rboles centenarios han sido talados en los ?ltimos d?as en el parque central de Puerto Plata para sembrar palmas, lo que ha generado una serie de protestas y cr?ticas de diferentes sectores sociales de la provincia.
Noticias - PP también critica palmas
Si as? es que queremos construir un Nueva York chiquito...ay compai.
Puerto Plata tambi?n critica palmas
SANTIAGO. Decenas de ?rboles centenarios han sido talados en los ?ltimos d?as en el parque central de Puerto Plata para sembrar palmas, lo que ha generado una serie de protestas y cr?ticas de diferentes sectores sociales de la provincia.
Noticias - PP también critica palmas
Si as? es que queremos construir un Nueva York chiquito...ay compai.
Y muerto ese avejon, compai'.
NALS ....you must be Salcedo's representative. I have never heard of anyone defending this barbarity more passionately than thou.
NALS ....you must be Salcedo's representative. I have never heard of anyone defending this barbarity more passionately than thou.
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