Capitalism with a heart.

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
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The health plan in the US is just a hidden TAX.......most DON'T pay it...the monthly payments....(younger generation)......but they are taxed at the end of the year..........but many have found out it is cheaper not to pay every month......and just pay the penalty at the end of the year. THEY CANNOT REFUSE TREATMENT AT ANY HOSPITAL IN THE US...........so why would anyone pay those monthly payments?.............Just ridiculous............

you talking current or future? now health care is private policy or through companies, or Medicare and Medicaid. no insurance is the below statement.

Only part of the above thats true so far is THEY CANNOT REFUSE TREATMENT AT ANY HOSPITAL IN THE US.
but you receive no general care or preventive.

Not DR related unless HOM's and CEDIMAT start accepting MEDICARE.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Oh, please, please, please, I hope, I hope, I hope....

AE

Not going to happen. They cannot control Medicare fraud INSIDE the US - imagine trying to do it here! The Mexican US expat community has been trying to get this for years.

(once again -you can get a policy for 3 million pesos coverage that will cover you up til death if you buy it before you are 65. Costs US$2000 a year)
 

rice&beans

Silver
May 16, 2010
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Spreading the joy.............

you talking current or future? now health care is private policy or through companies, or Medicare and Medicaid. no insurance is the below statement.

Only part of the above thats true so far is THEY CANNOT REFUSE TREATMENT AT ANY HOSPITAL IN THE US.
but you receive no general care or preventive.

Not DR related unless HOM's and CEDIMAT start accepting MEDICARE.

I know we are straying a bit from the original topic, I have been lucky and privy to look at and observe some real interesting data, mostly surveys that were taken, and the results are ......ahhh.....(lets just say the new health plan that was just implemented in the US is a mess)....The demographic study and survey that was done between the age group between 18-30 reveals only a small and I mean small percentage is paying the monthly premiums...(average...between 230-270 a month) to a health care provider. The rest have figured out that if they just pay the penalty at the end of the year during tax time it is CHEAPER than paying for something they never wanted ANYWAY (in some cases alot) Plus EVERYONE knows they will not refuse to treat you at ANY HOSPITAL if something should ever happen to them....now the US government knew this would probably happen, hence the HIDDEN TAX. Pretty sneaky, but it will work for a while.......we shall see how the people respond to this as time goes on. Bottom line you can't FORCE people to do something they don't want to do......and then penalize them for not participating. :glasses:
 

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
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Samples of letters from Fordham and Columbia Universities that support the Designated Suppliers Program. There are about 185 Universities in the US that support this initiative. This is a big market that will benefit Knight apparel greatly, thus making it possible to lift Dominican workers out of poverty. Nice.


Designated Suppliers will include only factories that pay a living wage, respect associational rights of workers as demonstrated by the presence in the factory of a legitimate union or other representative body, and sell the majority of their products to university licensees (or to other buyers willing to meet the same standards and pricing obligations as university licensees);

http://www.workersrights.org/dsp/Fordham University Designated Supplier Statement.pdf


Columbia was invited to participate in the Working Group due to its expressed support of the general goals and principles sponsored by the Columbia chapter of the United Students Against Sweatshops and embodied in the proposed Designated Supplier Program (DSP), especially the efforts to ensure that University-logo apparel workers are paid non-poverty wages sufficient to cover their family's basic needs and are legitimately represented in negotiations with their employers.
http://www.workersrights.org/dsp/Columbia_statement.pdf
 

A.Hidalgo

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Apr 28, 2006
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Journalist Joe Kline chimes in.......

What's the opposite of a boycott...a buycott, perhaps? In any case, the New York Times reports on the noble effort of Knights Apparel to pay a living wage at its factory in the Dominican Republic. Knights manufactures college logo gear and the living wage is expected to raise the price of its t-shirts into the range of premium products like Nike. But you can handle that, right? Wouldn't it be a great thing if all you high-minded students out there--and even some slackers with a sense of justice--supported the Dominican people and bought this product?

If my alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, sells Knights products, I'm going to launch my own buycott tomorrow.

Buy This Product - Swampland - TIME.com
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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"SOUNDS GOOD" But You Must "Consider The Source"!!

Not"Exactly" independent!
When a website,with an apparent "AGENDA", such as we have here, posts a "story",you have to be careful in believing everything you read.

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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Knight has an interesting niche that I'm not aware any other clothing manufacturer has:

  • A consumer base made up of naive kids who largely don't earn much of their own money (college kids) and have few other consumer needs. Yes, there may be some outliers, but the bulk of their volume is college kids.
  • A license with the NCAA and individual colleges that precludes much/most real competition. That keeps prices high.
  • A limited number of customers: 350. That lowers administrative costs and pretty much guts advertising and marketing costs (their licensing fees ARE their marketing costs.)
  • A limited product offering, sharply reducing R&D and market research costs.
  • No wholesale distribution; higher margins.
  • One distribution center (in a low wage, non-union state I might add. I'd be curious which union in SC Knight has certified.)
Basically, Knight is profitable because they have a near monopoly that allows higher prices, have no middle man, and thus having more margin to work with. While the Knight story is an interesting one, you won't see it expend to other businesses because of their unique situation. You eliminate just one of those conditions above, and the Knight model probability of working goes down significantly.

I'm speaking of just the business model, not the Feel Good aspect. I'm happy for the good people of Villa Alta Gracia. :)
 

mountainannie

Platinum
Dec 11, 2003
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Yes, I wrote the article..

One of the aspects that I really found interesting was how the student activist groups are doing their "marketing" for them. I would not be surprised if they expanded to the bulk of the university campuses in the US.

And yes, it is true that IPS itself is "left leaning" .. and I am always shocked that they continue to print and pay me for stories.. a pittance.. but pay. Their coverage on Haiti is horrible.. always talking about Aristide and the dreaded imperialist powers..

But, I like to think (or imagine) that their coverage from the DR is more balanced.

Of course we all wear glasses, and I suppose that mine are a bit rosey colored.. call them, perhaps, pinko
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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Yes, I wrote the article..

One of the aspects that I really found interesting was how the student activist groups are doing their "marketing" for them. I would not be surprised if they expanded to the bulk of the university campuses in the US.

And yes, it is true that IPS itself is "left leaning" .. and I am always shocked that they continue to print and pay me for stories.. a pittance.. but pay. Their coverage on Haiti is horrible.. always talking about Aristide and the dreaded imperialist powers..

But, I like to think (or imagine) that their coverage from the DR is more balanced.

Of course we all wear glasses, and I suppose that mine are a bit rosey colored.. call them, perhaps, pinko
It's not marketing a product.

Unless the product appeals to a persons price/quality requirement you really aren't doing the workers a real long-term favor. You're telling an underachieving child that they're "special."

It becomes a charity.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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It's not marketing a product.

Unless the product appeals to a persons price/quality requirement you really aren't doing the workers a real long-term favor. You're telling an underachieving child that they're "special."

It becomes a charity.

I think that it does in fact appeal to quality requirements. These products come in cheaper than Nike or Addidas.. and are arguably of the same quality.

Some consumers are indeed concerned with the conditions under which the products that they consume are produced.

This is part of the "fair trade" movement.. which, although you may consider it simply naive, may indeed have a future.

The DR has no chance to win the race to the bottom, but it might be a winner in the race to the top.

I saw a pair of PUMA flip flops at their store in Blue Mall.. we are talking just flip flops here.. the kind you can buy in the supermercado.. but they had the PUMA logo on them and were selling for 500 pesos.. now therre have been accusations against Puma for sweatshop conditions.. read here from Australian Vogue, Report: Puma Makers in China Work in Sweatshop Conditions - Vogue Forums whose readers, one assumes are suitably high end
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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I think that it does in fact appeal to quality requirements. These products come in cheaper than Nike or Addidas.. and are arguably of the same quality.

Some consumers are indeed concerned with the conditions under which the products that they consume are produced.
Of course.

it's a niche market as I said before.

There's nothing wrong with a niche market.

But doesn't it strike you odd that the company relies on unpaid college kid advocate to promote their product? And they profit off of that free labor?

Did you ask about the union situation in the SC distribution center? Certainly, since they are pro-union in VAG they must be unionized in SC, right? I mean, choosing SC was by coincidence, right, being a low wage, non-union, low tax state. I'm sure it was an oversight not planting corporate and distribution roots in pro-union, high-tax NJ or NY.

"Fair Trade" isn't naive. It just rarely ever works. The flaw in "Fair Trade" is by eliminating intermediaries, the producers have to finance and operate those functions formerly performed efficiently by the intermediaries. Producers are producers; they aren't distributors. Therefore what they gain in supposedly higher prices they lose from inefficient distribution. In fact, often the producers end up making even less than before and because of the higher costs of export, a lot produced with the hope of "Fair Trade" ends up in the local market. It is what it is.

Additionally, "Fair Trade" outlets are rare and many go into hiding during hard economic times (Starbucks, for instance.) And at the producer level, there are more producers who want the higher prices than customers willing to pay the higher price (charity, in essence.) That means that the local "Fair Trade" associations have to choose the "winner" producers. Those not chosen (politics?) end up selling their crops at the local level and are disaffected. Thinbk Animal Farm: "All pigs are equal; however, some pigs are more equal than others."

I'm working with a group of Dominican coffee growers who came asking for help in establishing direct marketing to Europe and NA because they wanted to get the additional $90 per cwt the world market pays vs. what their long-term intermediary/processor paid them (coffee prices are at an all time high.) They were disappointed when I laid out a cost model that showed, yes, they COULD get higher world market prices...and all they'd have to do is invest US$2,300,000 in land and capital equipment and support/guarantee a US$210,000 annual payroll to get that price. Oh, they'd net maybe $5 per cwt AFTER the plant cost was amortized over 5 years, although each member would enjoy a proportionate share of the profits.

Good, kind ideas don't always pan out the way folks "feel" they should. There's nothing wrong with *wanting* those things to work. But cold, hard facts often paint another picture.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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Yes to all of that.. except that even if SC which USED to have a huge apparel industry... is governed by laws which preclude.. officially at least (the chicken factory notwithstanding) the sweatshop model..i.e. 44 or 57 hours a week of work for a wage that will not provide a living.

And no, I am not concerned about the kids using their energy to pressure their colleges to sign with AltaGracia.. it was a SKYPE call...and really.. I think it is an obligation of college students to at least TRY to change the world == I mean, when else do you have the time?

"Good, kind ideas don't always pan out the way folks "feel" they should. There's nothing wrong with *wanting* those things to work. But cold, hard facts often paint another picture."

That is certainly true. But AltaGracia IS panning out. It is the ONLY FACTORY in the WORLD (and I found this really startling)which the United Students Against Sweatshps supports.

It seems that almost everything is made in China.,,,clothing, luggage, ... ok, Honduras still IS a free trade zone.. but do you really not think that there is enough of a market for the entire textile sector of the DR to follow this model?

Used to be that there was a difference in FABRIC.. for instance, when you bought high end stuff.. now it seems that everything is made of some sort of polyester cloth (ugh)

And the prices.. OMG.. if you look at Nordstrom's or Bloomingdale"s... WHAT is it that they are delivering that justifies those prices?
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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And no, I am not concerned about the kids using their energy to pressure their colleges to sign with AltaGracia.. it was a SKYPE call...and really.. I think it is an obligation of college students to at least TRY to change the world == I mean, when else do you have the time?
Shouldn't they be paid a fair wage for their work by a corporation benefitting from their efforts?

Shouldn't they be studying instead? If they have that much free time, I'd suggest a few more credit hours. Or a real job.

MA said:
That is certainly true. But AltaGracia IS panning out. It is the ONLY FACTORY in the WORLD (and I found this really startling)which the United Students Against Sweatshps supports.
That's because it's the only factory in the world that has all those market advantages.

MA said:
It seems that almost everything is made in China.,,,clothing, luggage, ... ok, Honduras still IS a free trade zone.. but do you really not think that there is enough of a market for the entire textile sector of the DR to follow this model?
No. The DR lost factories over pennies per unti cost due to wage and tax requirements from thr DR gubmint. Triple the wages? impossible.

MA said:
And the prices.. OMG.. if you look at Nordstrom's or Bloomingdale"s... WHAT is it that they are delivering that justifies those prices?
The same that "justifies" prices at Wal Mart: consumer choice creating demand.

Prices aren't justified. They are demanded.
 

cobraboy

Pro-Bono Demolition Hobbyist
Jul 24, 2004
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BTW, MA, the article is very well written. Congrats!

You are a very talented woman.:classic:
 

Criss Colon

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Jan 2, 2002
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yahoomail.com
"MA",Thank You for your "Full Disclosure"!
On the "NET" today,there are millions of sites that have an "Agenda",but try to hide "same".'
Thanks for not "Hiding".

CC

PS, Cobraboy is one intelligent economist! He "Gets It!"!