computer surge protection question

[Rocky]

Apos,
If you have a real UPS, you don't need any surge protectors for your equipment, as the equipment is isolated from the AC current in your house.
It's a separate power supply from batteries which are constantly charged by the house's AC.

 

[apostropheman]

Scrub that

no, you were right the first time ....but she was very disappointed when it fried AND when she realized it was HER fault... but the makeup sex was well worth the effort/trauma :bunny::bunny::cheeky:

 

[apostropheman]

gotcha....unfortunately what we're/i'm using isn't a real UPS....close but no cigar

Apos,
If you have a real UPS, you don't need any surge protectors for your equipment, as the equipment is isolated from the AC current in your house.
It's a separate power supply from batteries which are constantly charged by the house's AC.

 

[Rocky]

...and it's the switching time that kills ya

(what did i expect for under $100 i guess)

lucky for me i didn't loose any data and no cost involved. i must consider the voltage regulator though...

It's not the switching time that kills you.
Having switching time, is evidence that it's not a real UPS.
If it ran on batteries all the time, there would be nothing to switch.
In fact, what these units really are, are mini inverters with batteries built in.
The power outlets are AC until there's a power failure, then it switches to batteries.
The reason we still use them, even when we have inverters, is because they have faster switching times than big inverters.
With slow switching times., some puters and other electronics will shut down.

 

[bigbird]

The little gadget you bought technically is an UPS but not really an UPS. If you look at the runtime for that unit it is 7 minutes. That little gizmo's primary use is to provide surge protection and a short time of power for your pc to automatically shut down via a software program. Without an UPS in the case of a power failure you would only lose unsaved data.

Get a good surge protector, not one but maybe two. Look for the rating in joules, the higher the number the better the protection.

At my house I have a surge protector on my main electrical panel, another in the wall mounted surge protector at my pc location, and the regular strip type pluged into the wall outlet. Also keep in mind that surge protectors deteriorate over time. Each spike decreases the protectio. The little strip type need to be replaced.

What protection you will need in Canada will be quite different from what is needed in the DR. I am assuming Canada has a pretty regulated power supply from the utility company as in the USA.

 

[Squat]

Guys, let me tell you something : if the house/office is not properly grounded, all the UPS'es or voltage regulators are only decoration !

First thing to do is to have a qualified electrician ground the whole thing (instalar una tierra).

You need a ground at the breakers box and a ground at the meter.

If the house is not grounded, don't even bother with a computer.

It is only AFTER that you have a well grounded house that you shall buy a good voltage regulator, in which you will plug your UPS, in which you will plug your PC & monitor only. Other items shall be plugged in directly to the voltage regulator. The UPS is for the PC & the monitor (and the router + adsl modem as well) but that's it.

Printers, scanners, sound system will plug directly to the voltage regulator.

 

[Hillbilly]

Apostropheman: Yes, exactly like that, except mine is brown.

Squat:: Absolutely! Most Dominican houses/apartments are not grounded. A good grounding rod can be purchased at most large hardware stores..

HB

 

[elkangorito]

In general, there are three types of UPS's which offer different levels of support and protection. Optional software is available to provide automatic, unattended shut-down of file servers and workstations.


Off Line UPS.

An off-line UPS will filter noise, surges and spikes (within limits) from the utility power before passing it to the load. The battery which stands off-line (and therefore does not see the normal utility power) is charged on a required basis. When power failure is detected switch is activated and the power is supplied from the battery.


Line Interactive UPS.

Line Interactive UPS combine some of the advantages of stand by units with those of on line units. Normal power passes through the noise filters and surge suppressors before going into an inverter, part of which is on-line all the time. The inverter acts as a battery charger under normal conditions but on power failure will provide battery back-up.


On Line UPS.

With On-Line systems the input current passes through their major components all the time. A steady nominal output is obtained and if the line falls or goes outside of the input limits, the battery will instantly carry on delivering power to the load.


I assume that the DR uses the American electrical system, which is somewhat more complicated than the European electrical systems. In any case & as another poster suggested, earthing (grounding) is a critical issue, not only for equipment performance but for safety.

Do not think that an earthing system can be easy to install into an existing installation. If this is not done correctly, it can be a fatal mistake. Earthing (grounding) must be done according to code (in the case of the DR, the NEC code, since it appears to be modelled on the American system). Correct grounding can eliminate a lot of strange problems with equipment because it eliminates any 'floating' voltage on the neutral conductor (a cause of many problems).

As far as transient protection goes, the only effective way to do this is to have an appropriately sized MOV installed at the Main Distribution Board (breaker box). Generally, these devices will be rated for the supply voltage & will have an operating time of about 8 micro seconds or less. They should be sized to handle a fault current of 50kA (50 000 Amps) minimum. The 'surge arrestors' that can be purchased at the supermarket are not much good.

UPS units are not able to withstand large supply transients (they are electronic devices too).

 

[Rocky]

Here's some info about that UPS I mentioned before.
Tripp Lite | UPS Systems | SU1000XLa

$250,000 Ultimate Lifetime Insurance (USA, Puerto Rico & Canada only)

Tripp Lite's Smart Online SU1000XLa on-line, double conversion UPS protects critical server, networking or telecommunications equipment from blackouts, brownouts, voltage fluctuations and surges in an attractive all-black upright tower form factor. Large capacity 1kVA / 800 watt UPS continuously converts incoming AC to DC, then back to perfect sine wave AC output at 120V AC (+/-2%). Removes harmonic distortion, fast electrical impulses, frequency fluctuations and other hard-to-solve power problems not addressed by other UPS systems. True sine wave output and zero transfer time offers guaranteed compatibility with all equipment types. Includes 6 UPS supported outlets. 2 single-outlet load banks can be independently controlled via a software interface to selectively reboot remote equipment, or automatically shed less critical loads to extend battery runtime for the most critical equipment. Battery support can be extended with the addition of an external battery pack (part# BP24V14 or BP24V34 limit one). Includes slot for internal SNMP/web card, plus DB9 enhanced serial monitoring port for unattended shutdown, remote control and monitoring of UPS system and power data. Network management interfaces support simultaneous communications via USB port, DB9 serial port and SNMPWEBCARD slot. HID-compliant USB interface enables integration with built-in power management and auto shutdown features of Windows and Mac OS X. Includes Tripp Lite's PowerAlert UPS Power Management Software. Compatible with Tripp Lite's Watchdog Service Monitoring/Rebooting Software.

 

[Uzin]

Just a few points:

- No matter what type of UPS you use, the bad ones pass on some sudden surges to the other side (specially lightening). So it's always wise to have specilized/rated surge protectors before the UPS. Unless your UPS is really a good one with proper, specified specs against power surges.

- They are some surge protectors that do not need a earth/ground. Not sure how good they are in protecting against very high voltages like lightening but for common power fluctuations (like in DR) they short the the +/- lines and blow an internal fuse (of course after that happens you need to buy a new one ! ). This is particularly useful for smal devices and when grounding is not available.



- Finally, the OP's equipment might have been fried not due to surge but slight variation in power (low rather than high), some UPS tolerances are too much for some badly designed power supplies. A surge protector might do nothing against that.

 

[elkangorito]

Just a few points:

- No matter what type of UPS you use, the bad ones pass on some sudden surges to the other side (specially lightening). So it's always wise to have specilized/rated surge protectors before the UPS. Unless your UPS is really a good one with proper, specified specs against power surges.

There is not 1 UPS unit on the market that is designed to stand up to lightning strikes, Primary or Secondary.



- They are some surge protectors that do not need a earth/ground. Not sure how good they are in protecting against very high voltages like lightening but for common power fluctuations (like in DR) they short the the +/- lines and blow an internal fuse (of course after that happens you need to buy a new one ! ). This is particularly useful for smal devices and when grounding is not available.


Virtually all "front end" transient protection devices do not require the protected facility to be earthed. However, the MOV itself must be properly earthed.



- Finally, the OP's equipment might have been fried not due to surge but slight variation in power (low rather than high), some UPS tolerances are too much for some badly designed power supplies. A surge protector might do nothing against that.

As previously stated, most UPS units do not have the capability to protect against large transients. The "online" type do have the capability to tolerate & correct minor supply fluctuations but they essentially require a "stable" supply. The first defense against transient damage is a proper earthing system according to code (NEC). The secondary protection (which will protect electronics etc) is to have proper MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor) protection at the Main Distribution Board (breaker box).

 

[georgios]

Samlex mini inverters

It's not the switching time that kills you.
Having switching time, is evidence that it's not a real UPS.
If it ran on batteries all the time, there would be nothing to switch.
In fact, what these units really are, are mini inverters with batteries built in.
The power outlets are AC until there's a power failure, then it switches to batteries.
The reason we still use them, even when we have inverters, is because they have faster switching times than big inverters.
With slow switching times., some puters and other electronics will shut down.

Rocky is right about mini inverters which "feed" directly from the battery bank.
The only sure way to avoid spikes from the grid. Samlex makes them and sells
tons of them in the Central & Latin America (spike regions).

In fact, one could connect the PC, lazer printer, fax etc and other sensetive
electronics like flat TV's and audio equipment. The output of Samlex mini inverters in pure sine wave, ideal for these critical loads. I brought
a few of them to try out and indeed they work better than expected. A rule of thumb is to isolate 1-2 breakers dedicated to power the sensetive loads only in order to avoid draining the batteries too soon.

Georgios