- Thread starter Pingu
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Construction Prices
Pingu
In reality nobody in the DR uses wood because of the climate and because of the price of wood compared to concrete. As I had mentioned earlier the floors are usually poured after the walls are constructed and the Dominicans try to level said floor using a homemade wooden float (trowel ) and their calibrated eye balls. As most Dominicans can not afford to purchase ceramic tiles or marble they use a technique of applying colored cement on top of the pour and floating this into the pour to give a marbled effect.
If you had the money to invest then I would suggest three possibilities.
Depending on where you are building and its susceptibility to water.
1.Having your floor level at least 2 or 3 feet above ground level and laying treated wooden beams to apply a wooden floor.
2. Pouring a concrete floor and applying ceramic tiles.
3. If you have a 2 story building then you can, if you wish, have your second floor wooden as the wood at the second floor level has less likelihood of getting wet. If choosing this option you still must treat the wood against insects as that is a big problem here.
If you should choose to have a wooden floor at ground level I would suggest doing only a portion of the floor this way and the rest concrete. I would think that having an impressive livingroom and or dinningroom with a wooden floor would look nice.
Galina,
First step is to have land to build on!!!!! All kidding aside, The majority of construction of houses here do not have a building permit or any other type of paperwork. I am not really sure of the law here concerning construction so there is the possibility that there is a permit required to build but if there is I have never seen it done. If a permit is required and you build without it can they bring misery into your life? Probably but my house and land is in my wifes name so if they should decide to move against me it will be poor Domanican vs Domanican government and it can be pointed out that none of the people in the barrio had a permit, tear us all down or charge us all.
If you should build you can use any blueprint you wish but take into account that the use of wood is not a good idea because of the price, climate and insects. The availability of material and hardware here. The DR is not famous for the ability to purchase such things as tar paper, shingles, sheetrock (drywall), metal joist fasteners and things of that nature. All those things that you take for granted in the USA and you can buy from any local Home Depot. The majority of the people don't use those items here and wouldn't know what to do with it if you handed it to them. 95% of all cement workers here use a metal float or wooden handmade float to work with cement. If they were to see a metal/rubber or metal/plastic float they would think they had died and gone to heaven. Same is true with things like a screed vibrator. Those things that we take for granted for in the USA and can buy or rent in any town.
Hope this helps the two of you.
Rick
In reality nobody in the DR uses wood because of the climate and because of the price of wood compared to concrete. As I had mentioned earlier the floors are usually poured after the walls are constructed and the Dominicans try to level said floor using a homemade wooden float (trowel ) and their calibrated eye balls. As most Dominicans can not afford to purchase ceramic tiles or marble they use a technique of applying colored cement on top of the pour and floating this into the pour to give a marbled effect.
If you had the money to invest then I would suggest three possibilities.
Depending on where you are building and its susceptibility to water.
1.Having your floor level at least 2 or 3 feet above ground level and laying treated wooden beams to apply a wooden floor.
2. Pouring a concrete floor and applying ceramic tiles.
3. If you have a 2 story building then you can, if you wish, have your second floor wooden as the wood at the second floor level has less likelihood of getting wet. If choosing this option you still must treat the wood against insects as that is a big problem here.
If you should choose to have a wooden floor at ground level I would suggest doing only a portion of the floor this way and the rest concrete. I would think that having an impressive livingroom and or dinningroom with a wooden floor would look nice.
Galina,
First step is to have land to build on!!!!! All kidding aside, The majority of construction of houses here do not have a building permit or any other type of paperwork. I am not really sure of the law here concerning construction so there is the possibility that there is a permit required to build but if there is I have never seen it done. If a permit is required and you build without it can they bring misery into your life? Probably but my house and land is in my wifes name so if they should decide to move against me it will be poor Domanican vs Domanican government and it can be pointed out that none of the people in the barrio had a permit, tear us all down or charge us all.
If you should build you can use any blueprint you wish but take into account that the use of wood is not a good idea because of the price, climate and insects. The availability of material and hardware here. The DR is not famous for the ability to purchase such things as tar paper, shingles, sheetrock (drywall), metal joist fasteners and things of that nature. All those things that you take for granted in the USA and you can buy from any local Home Depot. The majority of the people don't use those items here and wouldn't know what to do with it if you handed it to them. 95% of all cement workers here use a metal float or wooden handmade float to work with cement. If they were to see a metal/rubber or metal/plastic float they would think they had died and gone to heaven. Same is true with things like a screed vibrator. Those things that we take for granted for in the USA and can buy or rent in any town.
Hope this helps the two of you.
Rick
Rick,
I was thinking of having just the bedrooms (4) in wood as well as the dressing rooms. They'll be on the second floor regardless. Thanks for the input
BTW Are there significantly more home building options in Santo Domingo (i.e. Tiles, Wood Finishes, Appliances, Window Treatments) than in Santiago?
I was thinking of having just the bedrooms (4) in wood as well as the dressing rooms. They'll be on the second floor regardless. Thanks for the input
BTW Are there significantly more home building options in Santo Domingo (i.e. Tiles, Wood Finishes, Appliances, Window Treatments) than in Santiago?
Pingu,
As my travels out of my bubble have never taken me north of Santo Domingo it will require the response of other board members to answer the question you post.
As to your 2nd floor. If you, with a skill saw and carbon blade, cut a notch into those required block on the final course of the first floor and insert 2 x 10 beams and with the center wall of the house made of block you will have all the support you need. Built in this fashion you could even have wooden walls built in the interior of the 2nd floor to allow the building of closets and such.
I have no idea what the price of sheetrock is or where you can buy it. What most Dominicans use in its place is 4 x 8 sheets of particle board (yuck).
Rick
As my travels out of my bubble have never taken me north of Santo Domingo it will require the response of other board members to answer the question you post.
As to your 2nd floor. If you, with a skill saw and carbon blade, cut a notch into those required block on the final course of the first floor and insert 2 x 10 beams and with the center wall of the house made of block you will have all the support you need. Built in this fashion you could even have wooden walls built in the interior of the 2nd floor to allow the building of closets and such.
I have no idea what the price of sheetrock is or where you can buy it. What most Dominicans use in its place is 4 x 8 sheets of particle board (yuck).
Rick
In the DR they usually knock or drill a hole in said block where they wish the pipe to enter. The idiot that constructed my bathroom did in fact run the tubeing inside the block for my shower but ran it in such a way that his efforts are nonfunctional and he failed to run any tubeing for the sink and toilet he installed. This was an "expert" construction individual. The "expert" electrician that my wife hired ran ALL my wires using the roll of red #12 wire and took the roll of white home with him. Had I been in country at the time almost everything would have been done differently but that's in the past.
As you wish to have a water tank on your roof and as it is best to have a concrete roof then with careful planning you could accommodate the plumbing to insure an invisable installation. Before pouring the vige de amarre I would lay my tubeing along this route and down through the blocks to their final destination. The use of an elbow and up pipe would insure that the tube in fact extends above the roof. All you need is for this pipe to be in close proximity to where you will have your water tank. The drains must be calculated in and these pipes, if you wish them to be unseen, should be laid prior to pouring the footings and elbowed up in the middle of the footings and through the blocks or through the floor close to the wall.
Rick
As you wish to have a water tank on your roof and as it is best to have a concrete roof then with careful planning you could accommodate the plumbing to insure an invisable installation. Before pouring the vige de amarre I would lay my tubeing along this route and down through the blocks to their final destination. The use of an elbow and up pipe would insure that the tube in fact extends above the roof. All you need is for this pipe to be in close proximity to where you will have your water tank. The drains must be calculated in and these pipes, if you wish them to be unseen, should be laid prior to pouring the footings and elbowed up in the middle of the footings and through the blocks or through the floor close to the wall.
Rick
Rick is obviously very experienced in building her and Pingu and Galina obviously are not. Remember the expression "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Rick, without the close supervision of a trustworthy person of your experience, these people would be headed for disaster if they tried to cut corners or supervise their own construction. That is why my advice would be to pay for the services of the best people. It may cost more up front, but in the end they will be better off. - D
There is a big problem in the country when it comes to construction. Everyone wants the lowest price but expect ?American? or ?European? standards of finish. While you could build a, for example, 150sq.m. home for less then US$25,000, most people will not be happy with a tin roof and mud brick floors and pine doors/windows etc.
The prices quoted here are wide ranging because you could build with no guarantee, no conscience and no clue, using beach sand and bad re bar, and cheap block etc, but some people actually want a house that will not leak or fall apart within the first year or 25 years for that matter.
It is a very tricky business where an engineer will tell you, with a straight face that it?s better to build something wrong and fix it later then build it correctly in the first place. Why is that?you use cheap labor to do it wrong and then IF the client notices it and wants it fixed, then you bring back the cheap labor to correct the problem. It ends up costing less that way then to hire a more costly crew to do the job right the first time.
Another major cost that most builders won?t even consider is waterproofing. This is a very important issue and I know very well what happens when you go cheap because I?ve just fished up a job repairing water damage in a relatively new home and visited another that?s less then a year old with the same problem.
In both cases the builders went with a cheaper roof tile (locally made), that in themselves could be perfectly acceptable if installed correctly but these particular kinds of roof tiles require a very good waterproofing job because they are pours. Secondly, all concrete surfaces MUST be sealed with a special concrete sealer paint (I use 2 coats). Both of these steps mean that you protect the concrete and more importantly the re bar of the structure. Add approx. US$25.00 per sq.m for waterproofing roof and concrete.
Then, if you want walls, doors and windows that are square and level then you have to make sure your crew knows how to use tools to check for this. These guys cost double what a monkey block installer would cost but you?ll have a much easier time installing the doors, windows and less cuts in your floor tiles?saving time, material and money later.
Either way, you need a tile installer that can understand what a straight line is and can also use a level. This costs a bit more but there are few things worse and more noticeable then a bad tile job.
You could also go with cheap materials but you may pay the price later. If you go for ceramic tiles under RD$500.00 per sq.m then you get what you paid for. If you go with something over RD$1,500.00 per sq.m then you paid too much. And you can?t just go to 8A, find a tile you kinda like ask the price and then tell them you want something that looks the same but cost half?You?ll be sorry later.
Also, you should have your tile in mind during the design process because you can minimize the number of cuts you have to make if you consider the measurements into your layout. Saving time, materials and money.
Back to roof tiles, if you go with a fired, Spanish style tile you may want to get your ass on a bus to a factory in S.D. where they produce them?no imported ones (cost and supply and quality issues)?but you?ll have to be there while they load them on to the truck and then follow the truck back to your worksite?to make sure you get the color you want, don?t get robbed, and that they don?t brake half of them or ship you tiles with hairline cracks from the factory. For the average build this would mean 2 even 3 trips spending the whole day out in the sun selecting and watching the tile get loaded. It?s not much fun. Add 25% or US$5.00 per sq.m to the cost of the roof tiles to go with a better product and end result?not including the cost of your time.
Many builders will lowball the cost to get you to sign contracts. Only after you?re financially committed will the bad news spring up?that costs have gone up and adjustments must be made to the budget and you have to pay more or the work stops. Your options then are to pay what they want or get a lawyer and fight it out, but this usually means that you?ll have to get another builder to finish up and either way it?s going to end up costing you much more then that US$400-500 per sq.m that you heard about once, way back when?
These are just a few of the many things you should keep in mind but basically, the lower end of the scale means you?ll be repairing water damage in a year, pulling up floor tiles to fix bad plumbing and replacing cheap wiring etc. Every inch of a build must be well planned and supervised. You have to execute quickly and have a good crew and try not to go with the cheapest materials you can find. If not then you have to just live with the results.
The prices quoted here are wide ranging because you could build with no guarantee, no conscience and no clue, using beach sand and bad re bar, and cheap block etc, but some people actually want a house that will not leak or fall apart within the first year or 25 years for that matter.
It is a very tricky business where an engineer will tell you, with a straight face that it?s better to build something wrong and fix it later then build it correctly in the first place. Why is that?you use cheap labor to do it wrong and then IF the client notices it and wants it fixed, then you bring back the cheap labor to correct the problem. It ends up costing less that way then to hire a more costly crew to do the job right the first time.
Another major cost that most builders won?t even consider is waterproofing. This is a very important issue and I know very well what happens when you go cheap because I?ve just fished up a job repairing water damage in a relatively new home and visited another that?s less then a year old with the same problem.
In both cases the builders went with a cheaper roof tile (locally made), that in themselves could be perfectly acceptable if installed correctly but these particular kinds of roof tiles require a very good waterproofing job because they are pours. Secondly, all concrete surfaces MUST be sealed with a special concrete sealer paint (I use 2 coats). Both of these steps mean that you protect the concrete and more importantly the re bar of the structure. Add approx. US$25.00 per sq.m for waterproofing roof and concrete.
Then, if you want walls, doors and windows that are square and level then you have to make sure your crew knows how to use tools to check for this. These guys cost double what a monkey block installer would cost but you?ll have a much easier time installing the doors, windows and less cuts in your floor tiles?saving time, material and money later.
Either way, you need a tile installer that can understand what a straight line is and can also use a level. This costs a bit more but there are few things worse and more noticeable then a bad tile job.
You could also go with cheap materials but you may pay the price later. If you go for ceramic tiles under RD$500.00 per sq.m then you get what you paid for. If you go with something over RD$1,500.00 per sq.m then you paid too much. And you can?t just go to 8A, find a tile you kinda like ask the price and then tell them you want something that looks the same but cost half?You?ll be sorry later.
Also, you should have your tile in mind during the design process because you can minimize the number of cuts you have to make if you consider the measurements into your layout. Saving time, materials and money.
Back to roof tiles, if you go with a fired, Spanish style tile you may want to get your ass on a bus to a factory in S.D. where they produce them?no imported ones (cost and supply and quality issues)?but you?ll have to be there while they load them on to the truck and then follow the truck back to your worksite?to make sure you get the color you want, don?t get robbed, and that they don?t brake half of them or ship you tiles with hairline cracks from the factory. For the average build this would mean 2 even 3 trips spending the whole day out in the sun selecting and watching the tile get loaded. It?s not much fun. Add 25% or US$5.00 per sq.m to the cost of the roof tiles to go with a better product and end result?not including the cost of your time.
Many builders will lowball the cost to get you to sign contracts. Only after you?re financially committed will the bad news spring up?that costs have gone up and adjustments must be made to the budget and you have to pay more or the work stops. Your options then are to pay what they want or get a lawyer and fight it out, but this usually means that you?ll have to get another builder to finish up and either way it?s going to end up costing you much more then that US$400-500 per sq.m that you heard about once, way back when?
These are just a few of the many things you should keep in mind but basically, the lower end of the scale means you?ll be repairing water damage in a year, pulling up floor tiles to fix bad plumbing and replacing cheap wiring etc. Every inch of a build must be well planned and supervised. You have to execute quickly and have a good crew and try not to go with the cheapest materials you can find. If not then you have to just live with the results.
Toronto2inDR,
Basically what you are saying is that at all ends of the spectrum of the Dominicans dealings are filled with people that do shoddy work and sell shoddy material due to the FACT that they know it won't last and that you will be back. This is all due to their refusal to follow standard laws and the failure of the judicial system to function properly. You use the word "everybody" in your statement that everybody wants to pay all little as possible, which is very normal, but you use the same word to say they all want American and European standards and this isn't true. 97% of the Dominicans that I know that have had houses built didn't and still don't know what American or European standards are. There are people such as myself that know what both American and European standards are but did not and do not expect the Dominican to apply something they are unaware of.
You say "some people actually want a house that will not leak or fall apart within the first year or 25 years " and I will say that everyone wants that. That is the reason so many people depend on the contractors to do a good job and the retailers to sell good material. As you have stated neither of these are a guarantee here so what is a person to do? He could go with a written guarantee but in this land of corruption, double talk and sidestepping you and I both know the worth of that guarantee. You say a person uses cheap labor and gets a job done incorrectly. I say you can use expensive labor and get the same results.
I paid less then US$ 10,000 for my house complete. I have a tin roof that I installed and does not leak. I have cinder block walls throughout that are stucco finished and painted and do not leak.I have a concrete floor with a marbled effect finish that does not leak. I have caoba doors and metal louvered windows. The reason I don't have glass windows is because of the stone throwing custom these people have. I have a concrete roof on my gallery that does leak and this is due to the fact that almost ALL if not all Dominicans have no idea as to how to do a proper pour or cure concrete. Or, as you say, they do it so it will leak at a later date and require repair but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they just don't know.
I have stated earlier in a thread at http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45915 as to how to insure that all windows and doors are square and this is something that does not require an expert to do. Even if your base for the frame is not level you are insured a square opening for the door or window. Of course if the base of the frame for the door isn't level then the swing of that door will be affected.
You have gone to great lengths to talk about waterproofing and purchasing material that I consider unneeded. As I have said time and time again, if the concrete pour is done correctly and cured you are almost assured a non leaking and non deteriorating roof. To further insure your safety then apply a coat of waterproofing to your cured roof. The cheapest and strongest construction would be a concrete roof with a slight slope to the rear WITHOUT the parapet wall that the Dominicans are famous for and are utterly useless except to hold standing water and therefore increasing the chance of leakage. There is no reason for purchasing any type of ceramic tile for the roof. If you want a roof other then concrete then I highly recommend plywood with tar, tarpaper and asphalt shingles.
I am no expert but I'm not stupid either. At least I don't think so. I give advice on this board because I've lived here a little and have done that which I advise. If it worked for me then there is the possibility that it will work for others. If my house had been a disaster then I would have been out of US$ 8,000 +/- and not US$ 80,000 +. I would have a really hard time with an 8K loss much less an 80K loss. My wife and son are very comfortable with their living conditions especially when then visit other people and see how they live.
You mention cost per squared in your post and I addressed that in post #17, enough said. You seem to assume that everyone is looking to purchase cheap material. I have never suggested that people purchase cheap material I only suggest that people shop around because the majority of the Dominicans have the custom of overcharging the foreigner and this is the way of life here.
Danny W,
To address your post. I'm still waiting for your answer to my post # 13. You seem to be under the impression that there is a vast supply of reliable, honest, sincere and knowledgeable Dominicans here to help these uninformed foreigners obtain their dream. I disagree!
Rick
Basically what you are saying is that at all ends of the spectrum of the Dominicans dealings are filled with people that do shoddy work and sell shoddy material due to the FACT that they know it won't last and that you will be back. This is all due to their refusal to follow standard laws and the failure of the judicial system to function properly. You use the word "everybody" in your statement that everybody wants to pay all little as possible, which is very normal, but you use the same word to say they all want American and European standards and this isn't true. 97% of the Dominicans that I know that have had houses built didn't and still don't know what American or European standards are. There are people such as myself that know what both American and European standards are but did not and do not expect the Dominican to apply something they are unaware of.
You say "some people actually want a house that will not leak or fall apart within the first year or 25 years " and I will say that everyone wants that. That is the reason so many people depend on the contractors to do a good job and the retailers to sell good material. As you have stated neither of these are a guarantee here so what is a person to do? He could go with a written guarantee but in this land of corruption, double talk and sidestepping you and I both know the worth of that guarantee. You say a person uses cheap labor and gets a job done incorrectly. I say you can use expensive labor and get the same results.
I paid less then US$ 10,000 for my house complete. I have a tin roof that I installed and does not leak. I have cinder block walls throughout that are stucco finished and painted and do not leak.I have a concrete floor with a marbled effect finish that does not leak. I have caoba doors and metal louvered windows. The reason I don't have glass windows is because of the stone throwing custom these people have. I have a concrete roof on my gallery that does leak and this is due to the fact that almost ALL if not all Dominicans have no idea as to how to do a proper pour or cure concrete. Or, as you say, they do it so it will leak at a later date and require repair but I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they just don't know.
I have stated earlier in a thread at http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45915 as to how to insure that all windows and doors are square and this is something that does not require an expert to do. Even if your base for the frame is not level you are insured a square opening for the door or window. Of course if the base of the frame for the door isn't level then the swing of that door will be affected.
You have gone to great lengths to talk about waterproofing and purchasing material that I consider unneeded. As I have said time and time again, if the concrete pour is done correctly and cured you are almost assured a non leaking and non deteriorating roof. To further insure your safety then apply a coat of waterproofing to your cured roof. The cheapest and strongest construction would be a concrete roof with a slight slope to the rear WITHOUT the parapet wall that the Dominicans are famous for and are utterly useless except to hold standing water and therefore increasing the chance of leakage. There is no reason for purchasing any type of ceramic tile for the roof. If you want a roof other then concrete then I highly recommend plywood with tar, tarpaper and asphalt shingles.
I am no expert but I'm not stupid either. At least I don't think so. I give advice on this board because I've lived here a little and have done that which I advise. If it worked for me then there is the possibility that it will work for others. If my house had been a disaster then I would have been out of US$ 8,000 +/- and not US$ 80,000 +. I would have a really hard time with an 8K loss much less an 80K loss. My wife and son are very comfortable with their living conditions especially when then visit other people and see how they live.
You mention cost per squared in your post and I addressed that in post #17, enough said. You seem to assume that everyone is looking to purchase cheap material. I have never suggested that people purchase cheap material I only suggest that people shop around because the majority of the Dominicans have the custom of overcharging the foreigner and this is the way of life here.
Danny W,
To address your post. I'm still waiting for your answer to my post # 13. You seem to be under the impression that there is a vast supply of reliable, honest, sincere and knowledgeable Dominicans here to help these uninformed foreigners obtain their dream. I disagree!
Rick
We are going to use professional help, when time comes.
But right now it is very helful to learn more about DR way to build.
It will be less surprises in the future. Thank you for your replies.
Is it 220V or 120V?
How hard to drill a hole in Dominican concrete?
Is it the same quality like USA concrete?
Do we need to use hammer-drill?
But right now it is very helful to learn more about DR way to build.
It will be less surprises in the future. Thank you for your replies.
Is it 220V or 120V?
How hard to drill a hole in Dominican concrete?
Is it the same quality like USA concrete?
Do we need to use hammer-drill?
Danny W,
To address your post. I'm still waiting for your answer to my post # 13. You seem to be under the impression that there is a vast supply of reliable, honest, sincere and knowledgeable Dominicans here to help these uninformed foreigners obtain their dream. I disagree!
Rick[/QUOTE]
Rick - I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about, and that a great house can be built economically. But as everybody knows, it's easy to end up with a boatloda of problems. I see them and hear about them all the time. My contractor's figures regarding the cost of block are in the same ballpark as yours, and we are looking for ways to save as much money as possible.
The reason I don't ask questions about curing cement is that I have no idea how to interpret the answer. Suppose his answers agree completely with yours - fine. Suppose they are different, and he tells me that you don't know what you're talking about because of x, y and x. Then you tell me he's wrong or lying. It just loses me sleep but is no help. I know zero about concrete, or roof tile. I have seen his work, and it looks fantastic. People all over Sosua are hiring him to fix their problems, and his work if guaranteed. I know that I want a house finished to American standards. I also know that the cost of my finished house will be at least 33% less than what I am seeing on the market.
If my son was a heart specialist and he told me I didn't need a bypass that my doctor was recommending, I'd listen to him. But he isn't, so if a doctor who I know and trust makes a recommendation (and gets a 2nd and 3rd opinion) I'll listen to him. Again, in my case a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. I'm almost 62. I want to move in and enjoy the house while I can. If I was 32, it would be a different story. - D
To address your post. I'm still waiting for your answer to my post # 13. You seem to be under the impression that there is a vast supply of reliable, honest, sincere and knowledgeable Dominicans here to help these uninformed foreigners obtain their dream. I disagree!
Rick[/QUOTE]
Rick - I have no doubt that you know what you are talking about, and that a great house can be built economically. But as everybody knows, it's easy to end up with a boatloda of problems. I see them and hear about them all the time. My contractor's figures regarding the cost of block are in the same ballpark as yours, and we are looking for ways to save as much money as possible.
The reason I don't ask questions about curing cement is that I have no idea how to interpret the answer. Suppose his answers agree completely with yours - fine. Suppose they are different, and he tells me that you don't know what you're talking about because of x, y and x. Then you tell me he's wrong or lying. It just loses me sleep but is no help. I know zero about concrete, or roof tile. I have seen his work, and it looks fantastic. People all over Sosua are hiring him to fix their problems, and his work if guaranteed. I know that I want a house finished to American standards. I also know that the cost of my finished house will be at least 33% less than what I am seeing on the market.
If my son was a heart specialist and he told me I didn't need a bypass that my doctor was recommending, I'd listen to him. But he isn't, so if a doctor who I know and trust makes a recommendation (and gets a 2nd and 3rd opinion) I'll listen to him. Again, in my case a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. I'm almost 62. I want to move in and enjoy the house while I can. If I was 32, it would be a different story. - D
Danny W,
Sorry if I came across harsh as that really wasn't my intention. One of the problems that I face everyday in this beautiful country is the total ignorance to those things that we as foreigners have been taught, seen or experienced through our everyday lives. I was not looking to get into any kind of knowledge contest with anyone. I was thinking you would ask your "expert" a very basic question and wait for his response. If he responded off the top of his head and gave you an answer then that is all well and good regardless of what he said. On the other hand if he responded with "I'll get back to you with that answer" or "we don't cure concrete" then you should maybe question his credentials as a builder is all I am trying to convey.
There are many, many Dominicans that claim they are experts or very knowledgeable about something and you find out later that the information provided wasn't true. The cost of this lesson learned could be 10,100,1000 pesos or more especially when talking the commerce of construction.
It hurts me when I hear about some poor Dominican going deep into debt to buy passage on a Yola to PR when he could invest that money into an investment that could help his position over the long run. At the same time I get very mad at the person that is charging this poor Dominican 50K pesos, or more, a head. At the same time I get upset when I hear about a person being charged 90K dollars or more for something I know only requires, at the most, 25K dollars for material and the wages, as mentioned in another thread, are very, very low.
The person charging the 50k pesos for a boat trip is robbing his own people for his personal gain and the person charging you 98k dollars for a house is doing the same to you. I am only saying that the buyer should beware and trying to show the other side of the coin. As an example, in a different thread it was mentioned that the going rate was 24 pesos per cinder block to include its laying. I pointed out that the going price here is 11 pesos per block and 2 pesos to lay said block. This is a 13 pesos cost where thay are charged 24. Who is pocketing the other 11 pesos?
If you are happy with your contact, so be it. If you think knowledge is dangerous, so be it. If you think you are saving money, so be it. I will not try to dissuade you from the choice you have made but I will point out to anyone be they Dominican, American or any nationality when I think they are being robbed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Galina,
The voltage here is supposed to be 110 volts but depending where you are this in reality can be anywhere from 78 volts to 110 volts with much fluctuation in between. Concrete is basically the same the world over with the difference as the proportions of and type of ingredients used. Almost all Dominican concrete is mixed on site so you are at the mercy of the knowledge and dependability of the contractor. One person might use 3 bags of cement to a cubic yard of sand whereas another person may use 4, 5, or 6 bags. One person may determine water needed by how it looks while another person may, but I doubt it, know exactly how many pounds of water is needed. I have never seen a Dominican do a slump test on their concrete and I don't think Dominicans, not even legal contractors, know what this test is or its importance in constructing good concrete. If you wish to learn a little about concrete then here is a link;
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/mixing_concrete.htm
I have no idea as to what you are trying to accomplish with a "hammer-drill.
Rick
Sorry if I came across harsh as that really wasn't my intention. One of the problems that I face everyday in this beautiful country is the total ignorance to those things that we as foreigners have been taught, seen or experienced through our everyday lives. I was not looking to get into any kind of knowledge contest with anyone. I was thinking you would ask your "expert" a very basic question and wait for his response. If he responded off the top of his head and gave you an answer then that is all well and good regardless of what he said. On the other hand if he responded with "I'll get back to you with that answer" or "we don't cure concrete" then you should maybe question his credentials as a builder is all I am trying to convey.
There are many, many Dominicans that claim they are experts or very knowledgeable about something and you find out later that the information provided wasn't true. The cost of this lesson learned could be 10,100,1000 pesos or more especially when talking the commerce of construction.
It hurts me when I hear about some poor Dominican going deep into debt to buy passage on a Yola to PR when he could invest that money into an investment that could help his position over the long run. At the same time I get very mad at the person that is charging this poor Dominican 50K pesos, or more, a head. At the same time I get upset when I hear about a person being charged 90K dollars or more for something I know only requires, at the most, 25K dollars for material and the wages, as mentioned in another thread, are very, very low.
The person charging the 50k pesos for a boat trip is robbing his own people for his personal gain and the person charging you 98k dollars for a house is doing the same to you. I am only saying that the buyer should beware and trying to show the other side of the coin. As an example, in a different thread it was mentioned that the going rate was 24 pesos per cinder block to include its laying. I pointed out that the going price here is 11 pesos per block and 2 pesos to lay said block. This is a 13 pesos cost where thay are charged 24. Who is pocketing the other 11 pesos?
If you are happy with your contact, so be it. If you think knowledge is dangerous, so be it. If you think you are saving money, so be it. I will not try to dissuade you from the choice you have made but I will point out to anyone be they Dominican, American or any nationality when I think they are being robbed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Galina,
The voltage here is supposed to be 110 volts but depending where you are this in reality can be anywhere from 78 volts to 110 volts with much fluctuation in between. Concrete is basically the same the world over with the difference as the proportions of and type of ingredients used. Almost all Dominican concrete is mixed on site so you are at the mercy of the knowledge and dependability of the contractor. One person might use 3 bags of cement to a cubic yard of sand whereas another person may use 4, 5, or 6 bags. One person may determine water needed by how it looks while another person may, but I doubt it, know exactly how many pounds of water is needed. I have never seen a Dominican do a slump test on their concrete and I don't think Dominicans, not even legal contractors, know what this test is or its importance in constructing good concrete. If you wish to learn a little about concrete then here is a link;
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/mixing_concrete.htm
I have no idea as to what you are trying to accomplish with a "hammer-drill.
Rick
A question for you "experts"
Rick, in post #12 you provide a link that shows a floor plan and you say that would be a 900 sq foot house. My question is to whoever, how much would it cost (in U.S$)to build a similar looking or structured house from start to finish NOT including the price of land or furnishings. Also where would be the cheapest place on or near the (any coast) coast to buy a piece of land aprox. 1/4 acre.
Rick, in post #12 you provide a link that shows a floor plan and you say that would be a 900 sq foot house. My question is to whoever, how much would it cost (in U.S$)to build a similar looking or structured house from start to finish NOT including the price of land or furnishings. Also where would be the cheapest place on or near the (any coast) coast to buy a piece of land aprox. 1/4 acre.
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The link I provided in post # 12 was only to give an idea of size and not construction. The referenced house is of wood and the Dominicans don't construct as such due to the climate here. It is typical as that in southern Florida where you will find almost all structures made of block. In that same post I stated that a house of 900 sq ft should not cost more then US$10,000 if you were to help and help supervise in the construction and you were to use general labor and not a contractor.
I have said that there are many Dominicans that know how to lay block and because of that I see no reason to hire a "contractor", who hires the same individuals, to do this hiring for me. In the same token I see no reason to hire a "contractor" when there are so many people out there that have built houses and have the experience to do that which you want done. The magic words here are "what you want done" which requires you to be there to help direct that which is being done. There are those that fear the unknown and have apprehensions about their ability to build a house. If you are reading this then you have access to a computer and with same you have a whole world of expertise at your fingertips. This doesn't make you an expert but it allows you to recognize that which is wrong and blatantly incorrect. It also allows you to have enough knowledge to ask those necessary question of the supposed expert that you are thinking of hiring.
In the USA , as an example, you will see the permits, licenses, diplomas and all those things associated with that contractor and his business. If you happen to acquire shoddy work you have many things to fall back on such as the Better Business Bureau, small claims court, civil court, federal court, local police, building inspectors and the local city government to help you resolve those matters. Here on this nice island you have none of that. Where there is a law the possibility of having it enforced is somewhere between nil and none.
I must also mention that many times in this and other threads there has been the use of "American" and "European" standards. The vast majority of contractors have never been to the USA or Europe and those that have, I think, went there as a tourist and not to study and/or learn the "standards" of that country. Having said that then the question arises. What makes you think they can build to "American" or "European" standards? Do you as a layman know what those standards are?
Irishdominican,
I have no idea on the price of land here in the DR. I bought a little 14x60 meter parcel from my mother-in-law for RD$20,000 here in El Seybo which is near no industry, beaches or tourists. It will require other members to quote you prices. I will say however that if I should decide that I want to go to the beach I pack up the family and travel 1 hour north for the north coast or 1 hour south for the south coast or 1 1/2 hours east for the east coast. If I decide I just want to get wet then I walk to the local river and dip my buns there.
Rick
I have said that there are many Dominicans that know how to lay block and because of that I see no reason to hire a "contractor", who hires the same individuals, to do this hiring for me. In the same token I see no reason to hire a "contractor" when there are so many people out there that have built houses and have the experience to do that which you want done. The magic words here are "what you want done" which requires you to be there to help direct that which is being done. There are those that fear the unknown and have apprehensions about their ability to build a house. If you are reading this then you have access to a computer and with same you have a whole world of expertise at your fingertips. This doesn't make you an expert but it allows you to recognize that which is wrong and blatantly incorrect. It also allows you to have enough knowledge to ask those necessary question of the supposed expert that you are thinking of hiring.
In the USA , as an example, you will see the permits, licenses, diplomas and all those things associated with that contractor and his business. If you happen to acquire shoddy work you have many things to fall back on such as the Better Business Bureau, small claims court, civil court, federal court, local police, building inspectors and the local city government to help you resolve those matters. Here on this nice island you have none of that. Where there is a law the possibility of having it enforced is somewhere between nil and none.
I must also mention that many times in this and other threads there has been the use of "American" and "European" standards. The vast majority of contractors have never been to the USA or Europe and those that have, I think, went there as a tourist and not to study and/or learn the "standards" of that country. Having said that then the question arises. What makes you think they can build to "American" or "European" standards? Do you as a layman know what those standards are?
Irishdominican,
I have no idea on the price of land here in the DR. I bought a little 14x60 meter parcel from my mother-in-law for RD$20,000 here in El Seybo which is near no industry, beaches or tourists. It will require other members to quote you prices. I will say however that if I should decide that I want to go to the beach I pack up the family and travel 1 hour north for the north coast or 1 hour south for the south coast or 1 1/2 hours east for the east coast. If I decide I just want to get wet then I walk to the local river and dip my buns there.
Rick
rick i just want to say again thank you for answering these posts, ive truly enjoyed reading them and youve probably saved me a bundle of cash.........thanks and happy new year
bi
bi
Rick Snyder said:The link I provided in post # 12 was only to give an idea of size and not construction. The referenced house is of wood and the Dominicans don't construct as such due to the climate here. It is typical as that in southern Florida where you will find almost all structures made of block. In that same post I stated that a house of 900 sq ft should not cost more then US$10,000 if you were to help and help supervise in the construction and you were to use general labor and not a contractor.
I have said that there are many Dominicans that know how to lay block and because of that I see no reason to hire a "contractor", who hires the same individuals, to do this hiring for me. In the same token I see no reason to hire a "contractor" when there are so many people out there that have built houses and have the experience to do that which you want done. The magic words here are "what you want done" which requires you to be there to help direct that which is being done. There are those that fear the unknown and have apprehensions about their ability to build a house. If you are reading this then you have access to a computer and with same you have a whole world of expertise at your fingertips. This doesn't make you an expert but it allows you to recognize that which is wrong and blatantly incorrect. It also allows you to have enough knowledge to ask those necessary question of the supposed expert that you are thinking of hiring.
In the USA , as an example, you will see the permits, licenses, diplomas and all those things associated with that contractor and his business. If you happen to acquire shoddy work you have many things to fall back on such as the Better Business Bureau, small claims court, civil court, federal court, local police, building inspectors and the local city government to help you resolve those matters. Here on this nice island you have none of that. Where there is a law the possibility of having it enforced is somewhere between nil and none.
I must also mention that many times in this and other threads there has been the use of "American" and "European" standards. The vast majority of contractors have never been to the USA or Europe and those that have, I think, went there as a tourist and not to study and/or learn the "standards" of that country. Having said that then the question arises. What makes you think they can build to "American" or "European" standards? Do you as a layman know what those standards are?
Irishdominican,
I have no idea on the price of land here in the DR. I bought a little 14x60 meter parcel from my mother-in-law for RD$20,000 here in El Seybo which is near no industry, beaches or tourists. It will require other members to quote you prices. I will say however that if I should decide that I want to go to the beach I pack up the family and travel 1 hour north for the north coast or 1 hour south for the south coast or 1 1/2 hours east for the east coast. If I decide I just want to get wet then I walk to the local river and dip my buns there.
Rick
Galina,
A drill with a masonry bit is what I use when I desire to put a hole in my concrete. If the concrete is a little tough then I switch the drill to impact mode and yes you have the (hammer/drill) effect.
Building material can be bought at any hardware store (ferreteria) or where they make cinder blocks (fabrica de block). Here in the DR the price is always negoitable. The present going price for block is currently 11 pesos per. If I should want to buy 500 or 600 blocks I probably can get the business owner to sell that many to me for 10 1/2, 10 pesos or lower per.
This is true for the contractor also. He may tell you, in all honestly, that blocks cost 11 pesos but rest assured that is not the price he is paying. If you have a contractor that has your savings at heart he will tell you during your negotiations that he can buy those blocks at less then 11 pesos per. Think about that.
Rick
A drill with a masonry bit is what I use when I desire to put a hole in my concrete. If the concrete is a little tough then I switch the drill to impact mode and yes you have the (hammer/drill) effect.
Building material can be bought at any hardware store (ferreteria) or where they make cinder blocks (fabrica de block). Here in the DR the price is always negoitable. The present going price for block is currently 11 pesos per. If I should want to buy 500 or 600 blocks I probably can get the business owner to sell that many to me for 10 1/2, 10 pesos or lower per.
This is true for the contractor also. He may tell you, in all honestly, that blocks cost 11 pesos but rest assured that is not the price he is paying. If you have a contractor that has your savings at heart he will tell you during your negotiations that he can buy those blocks at less then 11 pesos per. Think about that.
Rick