Corruption in DR

[MikeFisher]

Originally Posted by Freedom2009

I have just experience what I can only refer to as the twilight in DR.
my encounter with what is equivalent to a Dominican mafia.
corrupt police. ,military, and politicians. I have never seen such a corrupt side to this country before.

in the past years I had not seen this type of corruption. I like the country, but dont want to live in a place where even the police is worse that a common crook. So, here is my question to any one from DR.

what is the least corrupt place in the country?
no corrupt military, or police, or ayutamiento.

where is the life style in DR, closer to the life style in the US.

not available, thanks God.
If Lifestyle here would be close to US American Lifestyle most DR Lovers would not choose the Island as their 2nd/new Primary Home.
We are here because of the very different Lifestyle.
and corruption showing Face in different Shades does not mean one or an other Country has less Corruption, just some Hide it better than others.
in the DR, when such corrupt Crock get's caught, His Foto and Full Name shows up in the Papers and on TV, others just hide it in secret and let Him live silently with his ''earned'' bucks to not get a Scandal/bad Taste due His behavior in Public.
each can decide by His/Her own Taste what is prefered,
I like it much more Here, others may like it better There,
We are luckily in the Position where We can Freely Decide where we prefer to Live.

Corruption in DR did sure not get any worse the last Years, I would say the opposite is the Case, the last years it started nicely to once in a while catch some Big Shots and kick 'em out of Place, including the so High Money Intense Narcotraffick Connections.
I enjoy reading weekly Reports with their Names shown and the amounts of Assets sized. and I hope they get Tortured til they tell the names of their corrupt Foreign Counterparts/Partners who allowed them to ship their Poison to Europe or Northamerica, so they also get named and blamed and sentenced.

Happy Hollies

Mike

 

[bluebayou]

Hit the nail on the head

The hard fact is, it won't fly anywhere in the DR. This is corruption central, and anyone who thinks they can change what has been going on here for decades is just plain crazy.

Save yourself a lot of grief, and just let it go. It happens all over the place here, and NO ONE really gives a rat's a**, so why put yourself in harms way by trying to save a country that doesn't want to be saved??

Best post yet.....the ones that are most aware seem to be the ones that enjoy living in a corrupt enviorment such as the DR. It's on the "top attractions" for tourists list. It will eventually kill the tourism which will result in stepping up the corruption to survive. Catch 22
It will be interesting in about 5 years or so to see how many morons are still living there and putting up with the crap....or better yet, still alive.
Soooooooo many different places to live in the islands.........without the corruption or having to walk around with your head screwed on backwards.

 

[MikeFisher]

Best post yet.....the ones that are most aware seem to be the ones that enjoy living in a corrupt enviorment such as the DR. It's on the "top attractions" for tourists list. It will eventually kill the tourism which will result in stepping up the corruption to survive. Catch 22
It will be interesting in about 5 years or so to see how many morons are still living there and putting up with the crap....or better yet, still alive.
Soooooooo many different places to live in the islands.........without the corruption or having to walk around with your head screwed on backwards.

exactly the same been said 20 Years ago about the same Theme,
it did not Hinder that the DR is Flourishing as never before,
it did not hinder that we receive on the Isle more Tourists than ever before and than any other Caribbean Destin,
it did not hinder that more Foreigners than ever before Buy Condos and Villas on the Isle.

Yes, there are sooo Many different places to live in the Caribbean, if they are Corruptfree or Violence free, I don't know 'cause I don't care, so why all those People Choose to take the DR as their Destin If it would be sooo Bad, sooo much worse than all those sooo many other Locations in the Caribbean?

Interesting Logics in some Posts/Opinions here.

Happy Hollies

Mike

 

[bluebayou]

20 years ago?

exactly the same been said 20 Years ago about the same Theme,
it did not Hinder that the DR is Flourishing as never before,
it did not hinder that we receive on the Isle more Tourists than ever before and than any other Caribbean Destin,
it did not hinder that more Foreigners than ever before Buy Condos and Villas on the Isle.

Yes, there are sooo Many different places to live in the Caribbean, if they are Corruptfree or Violence free, I don't know 'cause I don't care, so why all those People Choose to take the DR as their Destin If it would be sooo Bad, sooo much worse than all those sooo many other Locations in the Caribbean?

Interesting Logics in some Posts/Opinions here.

Happy Hollies

Mike

Maybe 20 years ago this might have been true. I think you need look at some statistics. Crime, violence has gone up.....tourism and property sales down.
Your fortunate to be on the east coast, slowest to see the problems concerning the rest of the island, but will soon be to catch up.
I have followed things for about 15 years or so. No it was not like it is today back then. I think as problems increase in Haiti as they are, it will reflect on the DR's tourism in general. Disease, corruption, and political civil wars will not help tourism, it will drive it away. Granted PuntaCana is probably the best...or safest place ....right now, the east coast will eventually endure the hardships the rest of the island deals with on a daily basis.
The tourists that visit PC are the same ones that visit Disneyland, they just don't know any better......yet.

Happy hollies to you as well

 

[MikeFisher]

absolutely NO, Disagreement.
on which Part of the Island did You follow the ongoings in the DR the last 15 years my friend, on CNN?
15 and 20 Years ago such stats about Crime etc simply have not been done in any accurate manner, most Crimes been never reported, Rapes within Family Members and Neighbours been not reported to anybody, so You can not Read or Watch a Statistic to compare such to Todays.
where Crime is up and Rising is the big Cities with their growing Barrios, as the Population grows with more People cattled in poor Conditions together at a Place, there Crime is going Up , as in every Mayor City oif the World, that's why Cities as Miami, Los Angeles, New York Paris, London, Berlin etc etc are NOT Safe for a Visitor to walk the wrong street on night and often not even on bright Daylight, even national Locals stay away from there, with the Full Speed growing Population on the Planet such Problems rise quickly and all around. of course the Big Cities in the DR face such Problems and the related Crimes, too.
Which reliable statistic says that Tourism and Property Sales in the DR went down the last 2 Decades?, I name such Stat a simple Lie.
when the Worldeconomy been Hit in summer 2008 also Tourism and sales heer on the Island felt the effects, but compared to the whole Worldmess I say it went over the Island in a acceptable smooth way. and in case of Tourism it already recovered, the booked visitors for 2011 already show a All Time Record High in number of Visitors to the Island. Condos/Appartments/Villas sold to Foreign Investors during the last Years including the WorldCrisis Years are higher in numbers than they ever been sold in all other Years before here on the East for Example. I left Puerto Plata 15 Years ago beause I did not find Trust into big Part of the Present Community there Businesswise, it looked to me like a very nice Area on it's way to get Run Down by the Scumbags trying to do their own lil thingy in a non organized way, and it went Down Hill the last Decade, while the same Time the East came Up. the Reasons for such Problems need to be analized and brought into statistics Locally, for each specific Area, to find a separate Solution for each specific Area.
if I look on my own businesses, 2008 been the by far best Business Year ever til that Date, followed by 2009 which been the worst, Resorts started with much lower than usual Occupancies for peak Season Winter 08/09, threw out super cheap offers to keep rooms occupied, those 'cheaper' guests did spend only a small Fraction for activities off the AI Resorts compared to the prior Year, we had to come down from our High Horses with expensive Activities/Tours/Restaurants and additionally offer Activities for the Budget of the Present Clientel.
it started to work out on a acceptable Level by the End of 2009, even that the Winter Season 2009/10 started with X-mas and Jan and Feb/the Peak Months, still very low, but picked up in March, and Mid March til now/End 2010, including the Usual every Year's Low Season Sept-Dec2010, been a Top Year for everything, Resort Occupations AND Off-Resort Activities, even with the first part of the year til mid March missing the year 2010 over all been a Top Year for the last 2 Decades, and the Outlook on 2011 is Promising by now a Large Push Upwards.

Yes, Deceases are a Danger, as we saw in Mexico with the Swineflu, here we have actually the Danger that Colera would run a Outbreak in the DR and mess up for many Years, even that I see on long Term the bigger Danger in Dengue, because present everywhere including the East and throughout all Society Levels, not just for the Poor living without proper Sanitary Preparations, while Colera is easy to Treat and Heal as long as Cases get Detected and receive the appropriate Medical assistance early.
the unstable Political and Social Situation in Haiti is nothing new, it had been that way since many Decades before I knew myself where on the Map the DR is Located, and Haiti will go on in such misery for more Decades than I can have Lifetime left, and Yes, such influences also our side of the Island, but in a restricted way, I don't see Haiti as a Danger to Knock Down the DR.

as for Corruption, such is shown here on the Isle by a different Face than in many other Countries, but I don't see it worse than in the complaining Big other Countries. maybe they are just Angry that the DR System does not allow them to completely take over the DR and make Us dependend from just One single Foreign Power completely.
I see the DR on a good and Positive Progressing Way, while so many Big Shots are struggling on their Own Soil in those Recessive Times.

such are of course just My Personal Observations, done right Here, Living on the East, Businesses on the East, Properties Here on the East, Bayaguana, Santiago and Punta Rusia. I don't live in a separated Bubble on the East, even that I spend due Business of course more Time here than elsewhere, but I Travel around the Isle and get My Info at every Place where I am involved.

Mike

 

[Lando calrisian]

If Lambada we're still with us she would have advised Freedom to act, but to do so through an intermediary. That way he would be protected and his actions carried out. If we Dominican's who believe that their shouldn't be any corruption clam up and pipe down then the ominous predictions made above will occur. However many, many Dominican's who live on the island and have honest business interest's want things to be done on the up and up. The business community is waking up to this, I think, I hope. Leonel is putting down his crack pipe, went to the gym, lost weight, got a haircut, painted his hair darker and went to re-hab (no,no,no). Puerto Plata is attempting to clean up it's act. Samana is coming back swinging. Sosua is also reasserting itself. The pendulum might not swing all the way, but it's moving, painfully so but it's moving. Don't write off DR yet, we still got a lot of platanos to sancochar my friend.

 

[Mariot]

Leonel is putting down his crack pipe, went to the gym, lost weight, got a haircut, painted his hair darker and went to re-hab (no,no,no).

care to explain what you are talking about?

 

[bluebayou]

Cnn??

absolutely NO, Disagreement.
on which Part of the Island did You follow the ongoings in the DR the last 15 years my friend, on CNN?
15 and 20 Years ago such stats about Crime etc simply have not been done in any accurate manner, most Crimes been never reported, Rapes within Family Members and Neighbours been not reported to anybody, so You can not Read or Watch a Statistic to compare such to Todays.
where Crime is up and Rising is the big Cities with their growing Barrios, as the Population grows with more People cattled in poor Conditions together at a Place, there Crime is going Up , as in every Mayor City oif the World, that's why Cities as Miami, Los Angeles, New York Paris, London, Berlin etc etc are NOT Safe for a Visitor to walk the wrong street on night and often not even on bright Daylight, even national Locals stay away from there, with the Full Speed growing Population on the Planet such Problems rise quickly and all around. of course the Big Cities in the DR face such Problems and the related Crimes, too.
Which reliable statistic says that Tourism and Property Sales in the DR went down the last 2 Decades?, I name such Stat a simple Lie.
when the Worldeconomy been Hit in summer 2008 also Tourism and sales heer on the Island felt the effects, but compared to the whole Worldmess I say it went over the Island in a acceptable smooth way. and in case of Tourism it already recovered, the booked visitors for 2011 already show a All Time Record High in number of Visitors to the Island. Condos/Appartments/Villas sold to Foreign Investors during the last Years including the WorldCrisis Years are higher in numbers than they ever been sold in all other Years before here on the East for Example. I left Puerto Plata 15 Years ago beause I did not find Trust into big Part of the Present Community there Businesswise, it looked to me like a very nice Area on it's way to get Run Down by the Scumbags trying to do their own lil thingy in a non organized way, and it went Down Hill the last Decade, while the same Time the East came Up. the Reasons for such Problems need to be analized and brought into statistics Locally, for each specific Area, to find a separate Solution for each specific Area.
if I look on my own businesses, 2008 been the by far best Business Year ever til that Date, followed by 2009 which been the worst, Resorts started with much lower than usual Occupancies for peak Season Winter 08/09, threw out super cheap offers to keep rooms occupied, those 'cheaper' guests did spend only a small Fraction for activities off the AI Resorts compared to the prior Year, we had to come down from our High Horses with expensive Activities/Tours/Restaurants and additionally offer Activities for the Budget of the Present Clientel.
it started to work out on a acceptable Level by the End of 2009, even that the Winter Season 2009/10 started with X-mas and Jan and Feb/the Peak Months, still very low, but picked up in March, and Mid March til now/End 2010, including the Usual every Year's Low Season Sept-Dec2010, been a Top Year for everything, Resort Occupations AND Off-Resort Activities, even with the first part of the year til mid March missing the year 2010 over all been a Top Year for the last 2 Decades, and the Outlook on 2011 is Promising by now a Large Push Upwards.

Yes, Deceases are a Danger, as we saw in Mexico with the Swineflu, here we have actually the Danger that Colera would run a Outbreak in the DR and mess up for many Years, even that I see on long Term the bigger Danger in Dengue, because present everywhere including the East and throughout all Society Levels, not just for the Poor living without proper Sanitary Preparations, while Colera is easy to Treat and Heal as long as Cases get Detected and receive the appropriate Medical assistance early.
the unstable Political and Social Situation in Haiti is nothing new, it had been that way since many Decades before I knew myself where on the Map the DR is Located, and Haiti will go on in such misery for more Decades than I can have Lifetime left, and Yes, such influences also our side of the Island, but in a restricted way, I don't see Haiti as a Danger to Knock Down the DR.

as for Corruption, such is shown here on the Isle by a different Face than in many other Countries, but I don't see it worse than in the complaining Big other Countries. maybe they are just Angry that the DR System does not allow them to completely take over the DR and make Us dependend from just One single Foreign Power completely.
I see the DR on a good and Positive Progressing Way, while so many Big Shots are struggling on their Own Soil in those Recessive Times.

such are of course just My Personal Observations, done right Here, Living on the East, Businesses on the East, Properties Here on the East, Bayaguana, Santiago and Punta Rusia. I don't live in a separated Bubble on the East, even that I spend due Business of course more Time here than elsewhere, but I Travel around the Isle and get My Info at every Place where I am involved.

Mike

Ha I have to disagree with you, as you said as well..... No don't watch CNN, no TV TV is bad for the brain.
I have traveled all parts of the country for better than 15 years, bought and sold property there,followed both progress and declining times, did business in Santiago... I see no getting better, too many obstacles in the way....corruption being the biggest. I can understand this with Haiti, only because they need the $$ No exports, no tourism, but like you said the DR has both but yet one of the biggest players in the drug smuggling business, along with Haiti of coarse. It won't take people long to figure out that there are better places with less risks. Having to watch over your back all the time, chances of being robbed, credit card fraud, kidnapped, come on, do you really think that this won't catch up with the so called progress?? Haiti's problems will also reach your area at some time, they will work there way east leaving a trail of problems behind them. Right now PC is probably the only SAFE or somewhat safe area, for now.I have included another link, take a look at how nice a place you live in. I love the country but decided to move on to greener pastures.....with no crap like what's going on in the DR. Also spent mucho time in PC, know it pretty well. You live in what we, and some others called the batey.....not far from 24/7
Nice neighborhood.

http://www.coha.org/hispaniola-the-caribbeans-new-big-leaguers-in-the-drug-trafficking-trade/

 

[MikeFisher]

while the Article of the Link is a well informative document about activities and failures of the Northamerican and European Countries on their Drug Wars, the most actual Datas provided there are 3-4 years old, in today's quick moving and changing Times that article is Today's good for the History Books.
since then the Drug Route's Tracks and involved Violence topped in Mexico to highest Excesses and the DR Part of Hispaniola started to be a Higher Role Player as a Route towards the USA and Europe alike, but the same Time, specially the last 2 Years and with a amount of big Results shown this Year 2010, the DR is working Big Time on the Subject and provides Results, not just a few corrupt low Rank Officials and Minicontributers, but top dogs and corrupt High Ranked Officials Jailed, too.
so for the DR Part I see not only the Good Will to fight the Evil, but also Results,
while most of the Drug Destin/Consuming Countries still do Not Check and Search EVERY Ship and Plane and Passenger entering their Soil after Departing a Location/Country which is by their Own Intel KNOWN to be a Jumppoint on the KNOWN Route of Cocaine from Colombia to Their Country and Consuming Citizens.

I AGREE That the Caribbean including the DR can be blamed that it been and still is possible that Full Shiploads enter Local Waters, switch to other Ships and go as SHIPLOADS on their Way Northwards, all due leak of Borderwatch/National Waters Control and Corruption involved with the Drugtrafficking up into Highest Levels of Military and Police, at least lately/2010 a good number of such corrupt scumbags been caught and sentenced.
BUT I also blame the Consuming Countries for not controlling their Own Waters/Cargo Ports/Airports/Passengers coming back from such Departure locations, Allowing such Shiploads to Enter their Soil, get unloaded and distributed to their Consuming Citizens, aside of other Factors Including Corrupt Officials/Authorities up there North the same as the One's down here. I just do not remember much of Notices about such Officials getting caught and sentenced up there, so I guess it is fine to let them go on playing Golf with Governers and Senators while pointing Fingers on the Middle Locations on the DrugRoute.
Let the Dogs walk and sniff Every Boat, Foreign and Local, coming into a US-Port, and the Middle Shipment Locations such as DR will have their Corrupts starving to Dead.
I never blamed the Producing Farmers in Colombia for grabbing the Chance to make some bucks,
I blame the Demanding Countries for their Demand without doing a Crap about such Demand at their Own Home.

to reduce it back just to the Theme of this Topic, which is Coruption in the DR:
Yes, there is Corruption in the DR, on highest Levels and Big Time,
but at least I see that in the DR it started to catch'em and Sentence them, while others only point on the DR while not giving a darn about their Own Corrupts involved in the Same Trades at the End of the Same Routes of Narcotrafficks.

IMHO the Consuming Countries are Focusing on Corruption and Transit Routes instead of cleaning the Own dirty Backyard for the simple Reason that They wanna "Legalize" those Narcos back Home and make the Bucks themselves, so they sure have Zero Interest in reducing the number of Consumers, such could be a Tax Defizit in a few Years/a Decade or so. "allowing" their Junkies to go on with Drug Consumption while Blaming the Caribbean for Missbehaviros/Failures/Big Corruption, such speeds up the Process of Preparing the own Citizens, Junkies and Non Consumers alike, to agree on Legalization of those Hard Drugs and start the Own Drug Business Back Home.

Mike

 

[MikeFisher]

For every corrupt government official or lawn enforcement officer arrested, there are 10 more willing to step in and conduct business as usual. Don't delude yourself into thinking that the drug war is being won as it is being fought. History has proven that prohibition does not work.

that may basically be correct,
but it doesn't mean the Corrupts shouldn't be taken down, doesn't it?

Mike