- Thread starter MikeKO
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Cost of living in DR dichotomyt again
This is Bad Advice
It depends on your life-style. But my expereince over three years has been that to live what most would consider a normal middle-class U.S. life here actually costs more than in the U.S.
We have less electrical energy gobbling appliances here than I did in the U.S. for example. No electric clothes drier, no electric range, oven, Jen-Air, etc. We do have three or four computers. We also have a water pressure pump for the house, and a swimming pool filter pump. Our meter spins to the tune of 2000-3000KWh per month, or $350, all by itself!
Owning a car can get expensive. If you can't pay cash, US$20K for a 2002-2003 model pickup down to maybe US$6K for an acceptable 10 year old wagon, then you pay interest - at 25%-40%! Expect to pay double the sticker price by the time you're donne.
A home? Here on the North Coast rental for a small, but acceptably western dwelling starts at no less than US$400/mo, ranging up to US$3000/mo in a premier gated community like Sea Horse Ranch. Apartments can be had starting around $150/month if you look hard enough. You can purchase something of course. Offer less than 1/2 what is being asked! US$80K-$150K would get you something nice. But a land contract to purchase will kill you if interest is included again.
Food is probably 3x as expensive overall as I used to pay back home. Then again, I didn't change my lifestyle all that much to get into the rice/chicken/beans thing. To each his own.
Anyway, the bottom line is listen to the folks who live here on a similar budget like, Ken. You just can not substitute the experience of actually having been there and done that. At US$30K-$35K a year you will be making some painful choices. I guarantee it. I know we do! And I do make somewhat more than that.
Tom (aka XR)
This is simply false.goatfarmnga said:
It depends on your life-style. But my expereince over three years has been that to live what most would consider a normal middle-class U.S. life here actually costs more than in the U.S.
We have less electrical energy gobbling appliances here than I did in the U.S. for example. No electric clothes drier, no electric range, oven, Jen-Air, etc. We do have three or four computers. We also have a water pressure pump for the house, and a swimming pool filter pump. Our meter spins to the tune of 2000-3000KWh per month, or $350, all by itself!
Owning a car can get expensive. If you can't pay cash, US$20K for a 2002-2003 model pickup down to maybe US$6K for an acceptable 10 year old wagon, then you pay interest - at 25%-40%! Expect to pay double the sticker price by the time you're donne.
A home? Here on the North Coast rental for a small, but acceptably western dwelling starts at no less than US$400/mo, ranging up to US$3000/mo in a premier gated community like Sea Horse Ranch. Apartments can be had starting around $150/month if you look hard enough. You can purchase something of course. Offer less than 1/2 what is being asked! US$80K-$150K would get you something nice. But a land contract to purchase will kill you if interest is included again.
Food is probably 3x as expensive overall as I used to pay back home. Then again, I didn't change my lifestyle all that much to get into the rice/chicken/beans thing. To each his own.
Anyway, the bottom line is listen to the folks who live here on a similar budget like, Ken. You just can not substitute the experience of actually having been there and done that. At US$30K-$35K a year you will be making some painful choices. I guarantee it. I know we do! And I do make somewhat more than that.
Tom (aka XR)
Wow Tom!!!!
Ok, so I live on the south shore, instead of the north side.
But I do live here.
I live in Barrio China, Haina, #2 Penetration.
The whole Barrio, is a series of cul-de-sacs, with 1 road in or out.
No trucks, because there is no way thru, the dead ends.
All the houses are very well maintained. And there are no Moto-concho's after, 7:30pm, it is a very quite neighborhood.
I know everybody on my block by 1st name. I have a corner house, on one of the many cul-de-sacs. 3 bedrooms 2 baths, plus a maids room, with it's own entrance and full bath.
I use that room as my utility room, it, has...
Two 100lbs propane tanks.
an inversor and batteries.
Full size washer, and gas dryer.
Pressure water pump, with 60gallon fiber-glassed lined tank.
I do not have the roof tank, I too use a pressure pump, my water is stored in a 7000, gallon underground tank, which feeds the pump.
Also, my Christmas tree, and my tools.
The only item not on the inversor, is the hot water heater.
Except for the washing machine, all my appliances come from the U.S., Large refrigerator, convection microwave, T.V., VCR, DVD, Sony PS2, computer.
The washing machine is a energy efficiant direct drive, full size.
And I get 4 days, off the batteries, before I need to charge them again.
Compared to back home, Yes it is a middle class neighborhood.
My neighbors are all senior managers for big name companies, politicians, and military or own their own business?s.
I own a 1986, Mazda pick-up, that I maintain my-self.
It runs me $250 pesos a week in gas.
I LIVE 3 MILES, FROM WORK.
Yes I work M-F. I go home for lunch everyday. I average 12 miles a day.
A couple of weekend trips to the Capital, and almost every Sunday, I take the kids for the whole day to the pool at the Dominican Fiesta, and the all you can eat lunch buffet.
I live on $27,000. Pesos @ month. That includes everything.
Utilities, food, extras and goodies.
Now the guy renting our house in the Capital, he?s paying well over $40,000. pesos @ month just in rent, to me.
I will scan my utilities bills and post by the weekend.
Any body wants to come out on a Sat or Sun, let me know!
Thanks
Tim H.
Ok, so I live on the south shore, instead of the north side.
But I do live here.
I live in Barrio China, Haina, #2 Penetration.
The whole Barrio, is a series of cul-de-sacs, with 1 road in or out.
No trucks, because there is no way thru, the dead ends.
All the houses are very well maintained. And there are no Moto-concho's after, 7:30pm, it is a very quite neighborhood.
I know everybody on my block by 1st name. I have a corner house, on one of the many cul-de-sacs. 3 bedrooms 2 baths, plus a maids room, with it's own entrance and full bath.
I use that room as my utility room, it, has...
Two 100lbs propane tanks.
an inversor and batteries.
Full size washer, and gas dryer.
Pressure water pump, with 60gallon fiber-glassed lined tank.
I do not have the roof tank, I too use a pressure pump, my water is stored in a 7000, gallon underground tank, which feeds the pump.
Also, my Christmas tree, and my tools.
The only item not on the inversor, is the hot water heater.
Except for the washing machine, all my appliances come from the U.S., Large refrigerator, convection microwave, T.V., VCR, DVD, Sony PS2, computer.
The washing machine is a energy efficiant direct drive, full size.
And I get 4 days, off the batteries, before I need to charge them again.
Compared to back home, Yes it is a middle class neighborhood.
My neighbors are all senior managers for big name companies, politicians, and military or own their own business?s.
I own a 1986, Mazda pick-up, that I maintain my-self.
It runs me $250 pesos a week in gas.
I LIVE 3 MILES, FROM WORK.
Yes I work M-F. I go home for lunch everyday. I average 12 miles a day.
A couple of weekend trips to the Capital, and almost every Sunday, I take the kids for the whole day to the pool at the Dominican Fiesta, and the all you can eat lunch buffet.
I live on $27,000. Pesos @ month. That includes everything.
Utilities, food, extras and goodies.
Now the guy renting our house in the Capital, he?s paying well over $40,000. pesos @ month just in rent, to me.
I will scan my utilities bills and post by the weekend.
Any body wants to come out on a Sat or Sun, let me know!
Thanks
Tim H.
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Ken, thats not what my neighbors said!!!!
Ken, our helper, is considered part time.
And about 2 years ago, 2 of my neighbors asked me, if I was paying our help, $2000. @ month.
I said yes, then was told, the other Full time, found out and were complaining to their employers.
It seems, that the average in the neighborhood, was $1500. @ month, For full time help. They asked me to lower what I was paying our helper, and I said No-Way, my wife, would let that happen.
They were upset because, all the help on the block were demanding raises.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
This is a true story!!!!
Thanks
Tim H.
Ken, our helper, is considered part time.
And about 2 years ago, 2 of my neighbors asked me, if I was paying our help, $2000. @ month.
I said yes, then was told, the other Full time, found out and were complaining to their employers.
It seems, that the average in the neighborhood, was $1500. @ month, For full time help. They asked me to lower what I was paying our helper, and I said No-Way, my wife, would let that happen.
They were upset because, all the help on the block were demanding raises.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
This is a true story!!!!
Thanks
Tim H.
Tim, No!
I guess I should have parsed that quote better. Mi culpa!
What I thought was false and bad advice was the quote posted by another that said one could live "EXTREMELY well" on $30,000 a year by someone who hasn't yet spent their first peso here, or ever had to pay gringo prices for everything from car repair to traffic ticket bribes. Not your costing!
You certainly can live well if you budget and know what you're doing. You're posts are proof of that! But my idea of "EXTREMELY well" is a bit more lavish I guess. But then I also hate to budget.
Something else to keep in mind is that it's much easier once you've spent a few years getting established if this is to be your permanent home. The first few years are much more difficult as you pay all the big bills for land, houses, cars, etc. With that out of the picture, yes, I would agree that even RD$30K/month would be reasonable.* Still, I could never do that. Even eliminating major purchase payments I'd need at least quadruple that not to feel nervous all the time.
Tom (aka XR)
*This XR definition of reasonable explicity assumes that an amount equal to the standard budgetary allowance of RD$30K would be included in addition to the base amount solely for the purchase of alcoholic spirits, mainly wine and champagne, plus the occasional pool bunny, not to exceed a maximum of five pool bunnies in any 24-hour period.
:bunny:
I guess I should have parsed that quote better. Mi culpa!
What I thought was false and bad advice was the quote posted by another that said one could live "EXTREMELY well" on $30,000 a year by someone who hasn't yet spent their first peso here, or ever had to pay gringo prices for everything from car repair to traffic ticket bribes. Not your costing!
You certainly can live well if you budget and know what you're doing. You're posts are proof of that! But my idea of "EXTREMELY well" is a bit more lavish I guess. But then I also hate to budget.
Something else to keep in mind is that it's much easier once you've spent a few years getting established if this is to be your permanent home. The first few years are much more difficult as you pay all the big bills for land, houses, cars, etc. With that out of the picture, yes, I would agree that even RD$30K/month would be reasonable.* Still, I could never do that. Even eliminating major purchase payments I'd need at least quadruple that not to feel nervous all the time.
Tom (aka XR)
*This XR definition of reasonable explicity assumes that an amount equal to the standard budgetary allowance of RD$30K would be included in addition to the base amount solely for the purchase of alcoholic spirits, mainly wine and champagne, plus the occasional pool bunny, not to exceed a maximum of five pool bunnies in any 24-hour period.
:bunny:
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Cool Tom!!!!
If you read through my 1st post....
Moving to the DR, our story.
I did mention that I went through almost, $70,000. cash U.S., my 1st year here. Of course, that was mostly just for Presidente, for the whole dam island!!!! No bunnies, my wife would not let me!!!!
Yeah, I used to live with-out a budget, not any more!!!!
God, I am so happy, thats over.
Thanks
Tim H.
If you read through my 1st post....
Moving to the DR, our story.
I did mention that I went through almost, $70,000. cash U.S., my 1st year here. Of course, that was mostly just for Presidente, for the whole dam island!!!! No bunnies, my wife would not let me!!!!
Yeah, I used to live with-out a budget, not any more!!!!
God, I am so happy, thats over.
Thanks
Tim H.
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Reply
Edited by Tim H.
The electric consumption in my condo was 826 pesos and I was there for 1/3rd of the month. That was with 36000 btus of A/c blowing all the time and all night most days. It was hot. TV, Computer, Fridge on every day, Microwave on every day.
That is more than I spend on a house in NY for electric. I also pay 250 pesos a day for my maid. Once a week when I am not in town and 2 days a week while at the Condo. I don't make much of a mess and this suits me as I perfer privacy over being anal.
Scott:
Edited by Tim H.
The electric consumption in my condo was 826 pesos and I was there for 1/3rd of the month. That was with 36000 btus of A/c blowing all the time and all night most days. It was hot. TV, Computer, Fridge on every day, Microwave on every day.
That is more than I spend on a house in NY for electric. I also pay 250 pesos a day for my maid. Once a week when I am not in town and 2 days a week while at the Condo. I don't make much of a mess and this suits me as I perfer privacy over being anal.
Scott:
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Last Warning!
Somebody just reported this post to the Moderator, thats me.
This post has some great info in it, and I really don't want to lock it.
Also, I would rather not have too pick, which ones to delete, and which ones not too.
Please, no more mucking it up!!!!
From here on, I start deleting, 3 deletes, by the same poster...
I will ask Rob, to please BAN that poster from the Forum, for 1 week!!!
Thanks
Tim H.
Somebody just reported this post to the Moderator, thats me.
This post has some great info in it, and I really don't want to lock it.
Also, I would rather not have too pick, which ones to delete, and which ones not too.
Please, no more mucking it up!!!!
From here on, I start deleting, 3 deletes, by the same poster...
I will ask Rob, to please BAN that poster from the Forum, for 1 week!!!
Thanks
Tim H.
Re: Tim, No!
Edited by Tim H.
Once again your post on your home, maid etc proves what my brother in law says all the time..
You can live well here on little money..If $800+ a month you live that well I should do fine and be able to have a few horses on my budget (which I will need to keep tract of too..thanks for that reminder!)
Thank you Timex for being a fair moderator and for seeing things the way they are and telling the truth!...Now I need to buy a few homes to rent like yours..$40,000 RD a month is really good! PAM
Edited by Tim H.
Once again your post on your home, maid etc proves what my brother in law says all the time..
You can live well here on little money..If $800+ a month you live that well I should do fine and be able to have a few horses on my budget (which I will need to keep tract of too..thanks for that reminder!)
Thank you Timex for being a fair moderator and for seeing things the way they are and telling the truth!...Now I need to buy a few homes to rent like yours..$40,000 RD a month is really good!
PAM
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Re: Ken, thats not what my neighbors said!!!!
Tim, I don't understand what you are talking about. The fact that your neighbors complained about 2,000/month 2 years ago means nothing today. Then the peso was about 17 to 1. Now it is about 34 to 1. I still say that $2000/month for 5 hours a day, 6 days a week is far from being overpaid.
Timex said:
Tim, I don't understand what you are talking about. The fact that your neighbors complained about 2,000/month 2 years ago means nothing today. Then the peso was about 17 to 1. Now it is about 34 to 1. I still say that $2000/month for 5 hours a day, 6 days a week is far from being overpaid.
At the Risk of Having Everyone Want a Job in Xanadu...
I do overpay. Gladly. At least from those to whom I trust home, car, security, etc. And it's still next to nothing.
My 'houseboy/assistant' was making 600 pesos a week looking after horses in Jamao. His brother is a two year good friend of ours who works for a Swiss lady down the road. I hired him, and pay him $1500 a week. His brother gets just $3000 or so per month. For my construction, mechanical work, yard work etc. Jose also gets $1500 a week, sometimes double when doing heavy construction like working on my new office. They work six days a week, one day off. We provide sleeping quarters and food as well. Day laborers we pay right now about $200-$300 a day based on their skill.
Altogether, employing two full time, and maybe two part time folks we have a 'payroll' of RD$5000 or less per week. For US$575 a month I consider a bargain still. And I have very good loyalty* from my two main workers.
Tom (aka XR)
*They are friends I can trust anyway or they wouldn't be here and I like to reward my friends. But, still, sometimes, especially with the construction work, I have to hover over them like an OSHA inspector or the work always takes a turn southward like mosts threads any goat farmers happen to be posting in. That's just a Dominican thing, and I am used to, and prepared for it.
I do overpay. Gladly. At least from those to whom I trust home, car, security, etc. And it's still next to nothing.
My 'houseboy/assistant' was making 600 pesos a week looking after horses in Jamao. His brother is a two year good friend of ours who works for a Swiss lady down the road. I hired him, and pay him $1500 a week. His brother gets just $3000 or so per month. For my construction, mechanical work, yard work etc. Jose also gets $1500 a week, sometimes double when doing heavy construction like working on my new office. They work six days a week, one day off. We provide sleeping quarters and food as well. Day laborers we pay right now about $200-$300 a day based on their skill.
Altogether, employing two full time, and maybe two part time folks we have a 'payroll' of RD$5000 or less per week. For US$575 a month I consider a bargain still. And I have very good loyalty* from my two main workers.
Tom (aka XR)
*They are friends I can trust anyway or they wouldn't be here and I like to reward my friends. But, still, sometimes, especially with the construction work, I have to hover over them like an OSHA inspector or the work always takes a turn southward like mosts threads any goat farmers happen to be posting in. That's just a Dominican thing, and I am used to, and prepared for it.
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Why Whatever Do You Mean!
Sheep and goat farmers here in the Dominican Republic make a good living. Have you looked at the cost of a good sheep dinner down here? Chivo ain't Cheapo!
But the damn sheep, goats, and especially the sheep and goat farmers tend to disrupt everything they get involved with. We have a gentleman here in our project who raises goats and sheep and makes good money at it. You can buy a baby for RD$500 pesos, send him out onto someone elses land to get fat, and send him to market for $10,000 some time later. That's a business!
But in the process they're eating my grass, having sex on my property continually making new little sheeps and goats for the sheep and goat farmer to sell, and defecating on my lawn all the while they are doing it too! I can't get them to stop no matter how much I complain to the sheep and goat farmer in person, on the phone or on line! How can I make him stop Pam? Or at least get a cut so I can improve my cost-of-living bottom line here?
Tom (aka XR)
Please do! Note that I simply stated a fact and did not call names, point out anyone in particular, etc. So why are you upset at that?goatfarmnga said:
Sheep and goat farmers here in the Dominican Republic make a good living. Have you looked at the cost of a good sheep dinner down here? Chivo ain't Cheapo!
But the damn sheep, goats, and especially the sheep and goat farmers tend to disrupt everything they get involved with. We have a gentleman here in our project who raises goats and sheep and makes good money at it. You can buy a baby for RD$500 pesos, send him out onto someone elses land to get fat, and send him to market for $10,000 some time later. That's a business!
But in the process they're eating my grass, having sex on my property continually making new little sheeps and goats for the sheep and goat farmer to sell, and defecating on my lawn all the while they are doing it too! I can't get them to stop no matter how much I complain to the sheep and goat farmer in person, on the phone or on line! How can I make him stop Pam? Or at least get a cut so I can improve my cost-of-living bottom line here?
Tom (aka XR)
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LOL.....OK.....
DELETED BY Goatfarmnga.........I wanted everyone to read Timex's info on what it costs him to live in the DR..That was by far the most realistic view I have seen from an everyday sort of lifestyle...It is not an unreal to live in the DR if you have $30,000 a year and can forgo Louis Vuitton handbags... Each to his own..I intend to "Go For It" As soon as I can sell this *&*#&$^&#^&$ place in Georgia... PAM
DELETED BY Goatfarmnga.........I wanted everyone to read Timex's info on what it costs him to live in the DR..That was by far the most realistic view I have seen from an everyday sort of lifestyle...It is not an unreal to live in the DR if you have $30,000 a year and can forgo Louis Vuitton handbags...
Each to his own..I intend to "Go For It" As soon as I can sell this *&*#&$^&#^&$ place in Georgia... PAM
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The first lesson for the day is that there are no goats in the Dominican Republic. Here we have chivos.
If I had to I could, but I am glad that I don't. As Escott, Chris and others keep pointing out, there are two factors: available income and the lifestyle you want to maintain. We don't have as much income as some expats, which means we can't eat out every night and when we do it is places like La Roca that have a special price for residents, but within the limitation of the total available we live pretty much as we would anywhere.
There are a lot of reasons why Barbara and I have lived here so many years and why we have no plans to leave, but a desire to eat rice and beans every day isn't one of them.
As an aside, anyone that thinks one person's budget is more realistic than another's has a lot to learn. It can be said that it is more realistic for me, because, for example, I don't have the resources for more, but a general evaluation as being "more realistic" or the "most realistic" fails to understand that "realistic" is in the eyes of the beholder and that what is realistic for one person might be too rich or too basic for another.
Escott said:
If I had to I could, but I am glad that I don't. As Escott, Chris and others keep pointing out, there are two factors: available income and the lifestyle you want to maintain. We don't have as much income as some expats, which means we can't eat out every night and when we do it is places like La Roca that have a special price for residents, but within the limitation of the total available we live pretty much as we would anywhere.
There are a lot of reasons why Barbara and I have lived here so many years and why we have no plans to leave, but a desire to eat rice and beans every day isn't one of them.
As an aside, anyone that thinks one person's budget is more realistic than another's has a lot to learn. It can be said that it is more realistic for me, because, for example, I don't have the resources for more, but a general evaluation as being "more realistic" or the "most realistic" fails to understand that "realistic" is in the eyes of the beholder and that what is realistic for one person might be too rich or too basic for another.
Exactly.
As to the goats/sheep, you should be lucky I made a distinction between those two types of animals from pigs, horses, cows, etc. They all have four legs, smell bad, and mess themselves, usually on my property. I may be from Iowa, but I am a city boy. Besides, Ken, that was what was known as 'dramatic license' to make a point, keep to the thread topic, and still keep Timex's delete happy fingers away from my post. All-in-all a masterful job of tightrope walking if I must say so myself. :: smile ::
Well said, Ken. Many Dominicans survive on RD$3000 per month. I wouldn't call that living at all! But you certainly can do it, and not be dirty, starving, or homeless by a long stretch. But US$25/week for me! No thank you! US$25/week for say an Ethiopian? In one month that's more than his average yearly take home pay. He'd be happy. Expectations play a major role in anyone's definition of what's acceptable and what is not. And that is across the board in one's lifestyle choices, not just income and expenses.Ken said:
As to the goats/sheep, you should be lucky I made a distinction between those two types of animals from pigs, horses, cows, etc. They all have four legs, smell bad, and mess themselves, usually on my property. I may be from Iowa, but I am a city boy. Besides, Ken, that was what was known as 'dramatic license' to make a point, keep to the thread topic, and still keep Timex's delete happy fingers away from my post. All-in-all a masterful job of tightrope walking if I must say so myself. :: smile ::
Here's another good thread on the cost of living when the mainers moved to the north coast. Unfortunately they had to move back to the States for health insurance reasons.
Their expenses were for two adults and two children.
Their expenses were for two adults and two children.
Great stuff, this info is golden!
It's amazing how much lifestyle estimates vary. Just glad we have a broad range of people posting on DR1.
Maybe we should charge to access the living forum and split the cash between the posters?
Ok, maybe next year
It's amazing how much lifestyle estimates vary. Just glad we have a broad range of people posting on DR1.
Maybe we should charge to access the living forum and split the cash between the posters?
Ok, maybe next year