Does the Metro make money?

[rice&beans]

QUACK QUACK.......


<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51418611@N05/5976472463/" title="air-dominicana by bocachica64, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6140/5976472463_8c72302319.jpg" width="500" height="197" alt="air-dominicana"></a>


:bored::bored::bored::bored:

 

[NotLurking]

Pichardo,how about a picture of the burned out Air Dominicana plane at "LAS AMERICAS"?
LANDED ON FIRE,ONLY PROBLEM,THE Fire Dept. was never called!

Criss are you commenting about ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 727-281 HI-617CA Santo Domingo-Las Americas Airport (SDQ) Or are you mentioning some other fire on the 2007 Air Dominicana?

NotLurking

 

[Criss Colon]

That looks like the one I'm remembering!
Although,I can't get your reference site to open!
I remember the "NEWS" here told one STORY, but the pictures told another!
The burned out hulk was towed behind a hanger,but remained a constant, still visable, reminder to all passengers at "Las Americas" not to,"FLY DOMINICAN"!

cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

 

[PICHARDO]

Date: 05 SEP 1993

Type: Boeing 727-281
Operator: Dominicana de Aviacion
Registration: HI-617CA
C/n / msn: 20726/962
First flight: 1973-07-31 (20 years 1 months)
Engines: 3 Pratt & Whitney JT8D-9A
Crew: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 7
Passengers: Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 98
Total:
Fatalities: 0 / Occupants: 105
Airplane damage: Written off
Airplane fate: Written off (damaged beyond repair)
Location: Santo Domingo-Las Americas Airport (SDQ) (Dominican Republic)
Phase: Standing (STD)
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: San Juan-Luis Mu?oz Mar?n International Airport (SJU) (SJU/TJSJ), Puerto Rico
Destination airport: Santo Domingo-Las Am?ricas International Airport (SDQ) (SDQ/MDSD), Dominican Republic

Narrative:

The smoke alarm for the aft right hand lavatory activated, associated by a smell of overheating electrical wiring near the lavatory. The aircraft landed safely at Santo Domingo and taxied to stand A6, were normal passenger disembarkation took place. The cabin then suddenly filled with smoke and the remaining passengers were evacuated. A major fire developed and destroyed the aircraft.

About safety the Dominicana de Aviacion during all the 51 years it operated was regarded in the top list of safest air carriers in the world!!!!!!

name: Dominicana de Aviacion
country: Dominican Republic
ICAO code: DOA
IATA code: DO
Founded: 1944
Ended operations: 1995


Dominicana de Aviacion- Accident & incidents:



05-SEP-1993 Boeing 727-281 HI-617CA 0 fatalities Santo Domingo AILAS.


15-FEB-1970 DC-9-32 HI-177 102 fatalities near Santo Domingo. (Only major plane crash)
Dominicana DC-9 air disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


23-JUN-1969 Aviation Traders ATL-98 Carvai HI-168 4+ 6(ground) fatalities near Miami Int.


17-JUL-1958 Curtiss C-46A-60-CK HI-16 2 fatalities Ciudad Trujillo (SD)


??-SEP-1956 Curtiss C-46A-60-CK HI-36 0 fatalities


11-JAN-1948 Douglas C-47-DL HI-6 Dominicana 32 fatalities near Yamas?.

 

[AJL6767]

I remember the crash very well. My family and I were on the AA flight back to JFK which left SDQ just a few hours earlier.My son was just a little over 2 years old and my wife was 7 months pregnant with my first daughter. It was a horrible tragedy.

 

[AJL6767]

Here's another CDA story. We were n the terminal waiting to board the CDA Jumbo along with over 150 other passengers when we were told the flight was cancled. It wound up that Salvador Jorge Blanco and his family neededs the plane for their use, and we were among the unlucky passengers denied the priveledge to fly. Thats when I went back to AA. The CDA had 4 planes,, 3 small and 1 jumbo,. the small ones were the Duarte, Mella, and Sanchez. The Jumbo was the Asela, named after the then 1st lady.
I can relate other stories including my 17 hour delat in San Juan, where I actually took over CDA operations to get food and lodging for stranded passengers, etc.

 

[JuanDolioLiving]

According to the latest report the Metro moves over 2.3 Millions passangers a month at 20.00 pesos each. you may do the math. I do not hear people complaining about it anymore like they used to do. I have a girl friend that lives in Villa Mella and she loves it because it takes here less than 20 minutes to get from to the Gazcue.

 

[DRob]

Back to OP.

Anybody who has spent more than 20 minutes in Santo Domingo knows that there is a transportation problem.

Relatively few mass transit systems in the world (a few in Japan and Canada) are run at a profit. Construction costs are enormous, and when combined with operational expenses, it's very hard to get in the black. That's the main reason they are usually public or quasi-public in nature. Folks build them anyway because they serve a public purpose, namely inexpensive, safe, congestion relieving improvements, for significant segments of people.

Instead of berating any and every attempt made at making improvements to the infrastructure, I'd like to hear some suggestions on what makes more sense. Yes, we all know about corruption and palm-greasing. But that's not something particular to the DR, is it? I'd like to hear about all the diesel busses that Cris wants back in the street (they tried that before), or how about bicicletas for everyone? (yes, I'm being facetious).

Just once, it would be nice to hear something other than "the DR is DOOMED (although I'm not leaving)" from ccccccertain posters, and actually hear about real solutions.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Back to OP.

Anybody who has spent more than 20 minutes in Santo Domingo knows that there is a transportation problem.

Relatively few mass transit systems in the world (a few in Japan and Canada) are run at a profit. Construction costs are enormous, and when combined with operational expenses, it's very hard to get in the black. That's the main reason they are usually public or quasi-public in nature. Folks build them anyway because they serve a public purpose, namely inexpensive, safe, congestion relieving improvements, for significant segments of people.

Instead of berating any and every attempt made at making improvements to the infrastructure, I'd like to hear some suggestions on what makes more sense. Yes, we all know about corruption and palm-greasing. But that's not something particular to the DR, is it? I'd like to hear about all the diesel busses that Cris wants back in the street (they tried that before), or how about bicicletas for everyone? (yes, I'm being facetious).

Just once, it would be nice to hear something other than "the DR is DOOMED (although I'm not leaving)" from ccccccertain posters, and actually hear about real solutions.

I think I have mentioned this before in several posts. For a fraction of the cost of El Metro, the entire OMSA system could have been modernized and expanded with all new clean air diesel electric hybrid buses. This along with an aggressive building program of over and under passes along 27 and JFK to ease traffic flow. Then maybe in another 10 or 15 years the city might have been ready for a small Metro system. The only reason this was built was as a legacy project for Leonel.

 

[PICHARDO]

I think I have mentioned this before in several posts. For a fraction of the cost of El Metro, the entire OMSA system could have been modernized and expanded with all new clean air diesel electric hybrid buses. This along with an aggressive building program of over and under passes along 27 and JFK to ease traffic flow. Then maybe in another 10 or 15 years the city might have been ready for a small Metro system. The only reason this was built was as a legacy project for Leonel.

Same thing they said about the NYC Metro system on the start up, Paris, Moscow, etc...

Put more carriages on the streets, etc...

Let's face it! The reason why major cities that today boast of having the best transportation solutions, are those that built Metro systems dozens of decades ago which allowed the cities to have maximum density.

This is a solution for ages to come, only that we jumped the in-betweens to get there now rather than later.

Once the SD Metro ends with the full seven lines in service, the Santiago/SD high speed rail service/cargo, the Santiago Metro and the Santiago/Puerto Plata commuter/cargo rail service, you'll see how IMPORTANT this investment turns out to be.

 

[London_Calling]

I think I have mentioned this before in several posts. For a fraction of the cost of El Metro, the entire OMSA system could have been modernized and expanded with all new clean air diesel electric hybrid buses. This along with an aggressive building program of over and under passes along 27 and JFK to ease traffic flow. Then maybe in another 10 or 15 years the city might have been ready for a small Metro system. The only reason this was built was as a legacy project for Leonel.

I agree with Frank and have often said the best model for Santo Domingo to follow is a system similar to Transmilenio in Bogata.

Sorry to say Pichardo Santo Domingo is not New York, Paris or London, neither does it have any where near the same population to warrent an extensive underground system. It does not follow any serious land use planning policies so has ended up with no central business district and serivces been able to locate wherever they like. For that reason you need to develop a transport system with a significant number of routes serving all those locations - (7 metro lines will not reach all locations) - best done by bus + the removal of those motorconchos etc. Furthermore there needs to be a better understanding of why people need to travel in the first place - Santo Domingo may look busy but most trips are wasted time and wasted trips because people need to travel all over the place just to deal with simple daily issues. You need more local business centres + one defined central business centre. Ina ddition what consideration is been given to other modes (walking/cycling) + transport for the elderly/disabled etc.

As for the high speed train - who is going to use it/can afford it. Who can afford to comute from Villa Mella to Santo Domingo - Reducing the travel time may be feasible but if you are cash poor you are going to opt for the cheapest option the bus.

I understand you like to see display pictures of new building projects Pichardo and I accept segregated bus routes are not that flashy but I fail to see why you dismiss the integrated bus option as not been suitable for Santo Domingo.

 

[the gorgon]

brilliant posting, London. yes, some guys believe that Santo Domingo is New York, maybe because Leonel said he wants to make it Little New York. the Colombians seem to have done very well with transmileno. however, i will not dispute PICHARDO on this, as he will just baffle us with more BS. he claims that Dominicana was one of the airlines with the best safety records, as if that means something. the fact that it did not have a crash every week does not mean that it was safe. i watch carritos plying the highways and byways, loaded with people on top of each other, no seat belts, infants butted up against the windshields. the fact that there is not mass carnage every day does not signify that this is a safe form of motoring. it is divine providence which keeps these people alive. if Dominicana was so safe, why did the FAA revoke its landing rights to the USA?

 

[PICHARDO]

He he he...


Your opinions are yours and will remain in the voices of "dissent" against the Metro system for the DR, much like (again) the same voices that did try and wall the NYC system, Paris underground and God only knows how many other systems.

The Transmillenio reached the full capacity such solutions can offer short to mid term, if you didn't know that go and search a bit on the issue there and the recent efforts to bring the Metro there (oh! Just like SD).

You see? there's limited future growth that can be had with this system and the Colombian authorities behind it agreed! There's a limit to how many buses you can put in the road, before it all becomes gridlock...


Not only is it the most expensive ride of public transportation in the city it serves, but the one facing the worst possible problems due to the need to expand and accelerate frequency to what the laws of safety allows.

This BRT has been praised a lot (by Colombians and others) since it came to be on the dramatic transformation the city underwent when it entered operations. But now, years later, those same praises have turned into worries as a many see the BRT system to be struggling under its own dramatic success story.

The cost of fuel have increased, tires have need to be replaced on a more frequent pattern, adding millions of US$ to the costs or operation. The overwhelming amount of riders is taking a toll on the platform as it was not intended to be so taxed as it's now. Safety has been compromised in several occasions with accidents being more frequent than not, even between buses and rider's getting hurt.

The ColombianTransmilenio is a great BRT system and does a so so job instead of a metro system...

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You should ask Colombians what they think would be the best the Transmilenio or a Metro and I bet you the majority would tell you a Metro would be God sent! Some people have to wait for long periods just to board ONE bus to head to work in the morning and the same going home. No matter how fancy you make the buses or long, the capacity is NOT there to meet demand!

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[PICHARDO]

And so much for clean as a Metro:


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[PICHARDO]

Not only did this BRT offer a short to mid term solution to the problem, but it created even a bigger one:

When the city undertook building the BRT system, it did so removing traffic lanes from an already saturated road system at ground level. Now traffic takes even longer all around where the BRT exclusive lanes serve the riders.

Even the people that take the BRT system have to add more time to their bus ride schedule, than they did when moving around the city prior to the BRT network. In fact the average speed of the BRT system during peak times, is only 12 to 15 km per hour!!!! You can practically walk from one station to the other, as the buses inch in line to the next station. It's only when the buses leave the metropolitan area, when they gain some actual speed and time savings regarded of mass transit systems.

The BRT is not a solution for a trunk mass transit system, as a secondary or feeder, yes! But to say a city like SD would be much better long time with this type of solution, is not only myopic but ignorant of the facts as they stand today!

Each time you take a look at the pictures of the BRT, think that the traffic loaded streets where that system sits side by side, belonged to that gridlock. Now the picture of what's to come is clear... Eve more gridlock!

 

[PICHARDO]

brilliant posting, London. yes, some guys believe that Santo Domingo is New York, maybe because Leonel said he wants to make it Little New York. the Colombians seem to have done very well with transmileno. however, i will not dispute PICHARDO on this, as he will just baffle us with more BS. he claims that Dominicana was one of the airlines with the best safety records, as if that means something. the fact that it did not have a crash every week does not mean that it was safe. i watch carritos plying the highways and byways, loaded with people on top of each other, no seat belts, infants butted up against the windshields. the fact that there is not mass carnage every day does not signify that this is a safe form of motoring. it is divine providence which keeps these people alive. if Dominicana was so safe, why did the FAA revoke its landing rights to the USA?

The whole country lost the classification and therefore all carriers/operators licensed in the DR! Dominicana was not an USA carrier, but Dominican! What did you think would happen genius?

 

[AJL6767]

One of, if not the key reason that CDA lost its right to use FAA controlled airports was that it owed millions ( in fines ) at JFK and other airports. A lot of this was due to late departure fees. If there was a delay of over 30 min. the airline was charged a fine, and the CDA was almost never on time. After repeated requests for payment, the prohibitin was put into place. I cannot say anything about the safety record, but I know that maintenence records were incomplete and sloppy. TIPICO,.
As I previously posted in this thread I had a 17 hour delay from San Juan to SDQ on a return to the DR from Puerto Rico after my team, The Dominican Raiders played the Leones de Ponce, the American Football Champions of Puerto Rico. I actually took over the CDA offices in San Juan and made sure that women and children and families had access to food, transportation, and lodging overnight in PR. My players alone consumed over 5K worth of food in the airport and CDA was forced to pay for it.

 

[PICHARDO]

Nope! No such thing as losing the rights over lateness fines of such thing!

It was a matter of the DR not passing the evaluation for the required certification, that simple!

CDA had a contract of shared space and facilities with AA, both in DR and USA. So much so that CDA planes got serviced in the AA service hubs for regular maintenance. All that changed when AA instituted their own overhauling and inspection cadre in the US. CDA couldn't make use of the same facilities as before and the costs inflated a lot. Meanwhile the safety and inspections carried out in the DR failed three important inspections in a row over less than a 14 month period.

For CDA to continue to fly to the USA territories, it needed to then have all the maintenance and inspections carried out in certified airports, of which the DR lacked one once it was downgraded. For CDA this meant going to PR on a regular basis and it was too expensive to upkeep, and atop that the costs of re-incorporating in the USA as a main carrier was out of the possibilites!

CDA folded the tent!


Fines were the running joke for carriers, as this allowed them to keep their slots, and continue to wait for the last fare to load on...

CDA was one of the safest carriers in the air, period! That much you can find by searching a bit on the records!

 

[DRob]

Let me fill in for the peanut gallery while they're away...

"PICHARDO! Stop making posts including cites and pics which interfere with my preconceived notions! These are quaint little people who will never get their act together, at least without my guidance."

"I'll remind everyone that I'm in charge, which is why I sneer even when I'm smiling."

"CCCCCCClassic ccccccase of 'ccccccccontrived' ccccclaptrap!"

"I hate everyone and everything here except my husband. Have a nice day. P.S. I hate you too."

"I am having rich, important and classy friends who would NEVER take cuero-and-pestilence-filled metro, especially in cuero-and-pestilence-filled metro areas. Call me for advice on propane conversions to Corollas."

 

[PICHARDO]

PRESS RELEASE
July 28, 2011, 9:00 a.m. EDT
GreenMan Technologies' Subsidiary Signs Distributor Agreement for the Dominican Republic

LYNNFIELD, MA, Jul 28, 2011 (MARKETWIRE via COMTEX) -- GreenMan Technologies, Inc. (otcqb:GMTI) (pinksheets:GMTI) announced that its APG International Inc. subsidiary ("APGI") has entered a dual fuel distribution agreement with Caribbean Power Group CPG S.R.L. which has its headquarters in Santo Domingo. The agreement will cover sales, marketing and installation of APGI's dual fuel system for both diesel generators and diesel-powered vehicles.

Dominican Today previously reported that President Leonel Fernandez had launched the "Program to Implement the Use of Compressed Natural Gas In Vehicles" which is a plan to switch at least 20,000 public transport vehicles to natural gas. The objective is to establish four major corridors with natural gas fueling stations from Santo Domingo to different regions of the country. The government wants the use of natural gas to become a national priority.

APG's dual fuel system converts diesel engines and diesel generators to function more efficiently and at a lower operating cost (average net fuel cost savings of 20%-35%) by seamlessly displacing up to 40%-60% of the normal diesel fuel consumption with either CNG, LNG, pipeline gas, well-head gas, or other qualified bio-methane gases. APG's system is non-invasive to the OEM engine and operates within all OEM performance controls with the flexibility to return to 100% diesel operation at any time. APG's dual fuel conversion and emissions reduction systems can help users achieve their sustainability goals through lower carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide, and particulate matter emissions. In addition, the introduction of natural gas through APG's dual fuel system does not impact diesel engine power or torque and will assist in extending the engine's oil life as natural gas is a cleaner burning fuel compared to diesel.

Lyle Jensen, GreenMan's President and Chief Executive Officer, stated, "It was recently reported that the Dominican government issued 65 new licenses to companies which market natural gas and related natural gas activities underscoring their commitment to implementing the needed infrastructure to make natural gas vehicles a reality. We are also seeing notable interest from the private sector for both power generation and vehicular natural gas applications."

See additional information at: GreenMan Technologies . and American Power Group .










They got ahead of you! They do more than just Corollas!!!