Dominican Baseball Experts: Your Opinion.

[SKY]

What stipulations? If the D.R. wins I win, if the U.S. wins you win.

As for the odds,. I will take less, much less odds.

How about 2/1. Your $50,000 to my $25,000.


2/1 against the best team in the history of baseball is not too much.

As they say in Brownsville, which I spent a little time myself. in:

EITHER SH## OF GET OFF THE POT!!!!!

 

[BigCity27]

Sure, the Zambrano boys, Santana, and hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...not much else, compared to the DR, is there? Of course, you could argue they also have Abreu, the All-Star batting wonder, but what else has he done lately? The pitchers can't do everything...who's gonna bat??? Thought about that aspect at all? US and DR are the teams to beat, hands down. I'm looking forward to the DR kicking some Yankee butt all over the field.

I'm not saying Venezuela is the team to beat, but everyone is looking at the DR & US, and overlooking Venezuela. After Johan Santana & Carlos Zambrano, Freddy Garcia & Kelvim Escobar. If they have a lead, they have K-Rod closing. As far as bats go ... Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez, Melvin Mora, Carlos Guillen, & Magglio Ordonez. As rellosk said we don't even know who's playing or the format.

 

[trina]

I'm not saying Venezuela is the team to beat, but everyone is looking at the DR & US, and overlooking Venezuela. After Johan Santana & Carlos Zambrano, Freddy Garcia & Kelvim Escobar. If they have a lead, they have K-Rod closing. As far as bats go ... Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez, Melvin Mora, Carlos Guillen, & Magglio Ordonez. As rellosk said we don't even know who's playing or the format.

I digress, Venezuela has some pitching wonders, but they can't hold a stick to the DR when it comes to batting. If PR had some pitchers, they might also have a chance...consider this lineup:

C: Ivan Rodriguez (alt - a number of fantastic catchers ie Molinas, Castro, Posado, etc)
1B: Carlos Delgado
2B: Jose Vidro
3B: Jose Valentin
SS: Felipe Lopez
OF: Carlos Beltran
OF: Jose Cruz Jr (if off disabled list)
OF: Bernie Williams
DH: Ruben Sierra

 

[toneloc24]

Trina - You're dreaming

Sure, the Zambrano boys, Santana, and hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...not much else, compared to the DR, is there? Of course, you could argue they also have Abreu, the All-Star batting wonder, but what else has he done lately? The pitchers can't do everything...who's gonna bat??? Thought about that aspect at all? US and DR are the teams to beat, hands down. I'm looking forward to the DR kicking some Yankee butt all over the field.

Here's a quick view of Venezuela's lineup INCLUDING pitching and catching. I'm only going one level deep just to prove a point. They match the DR's offense-only lineup, PLUS they have pitching and catching. Venezuela ain't to be ignored. They have a very good team.

SP - Johan Santana
SP - Carlos Zambrano
SP - Freddie Garcia
SP - Victor Zambrano
SP - Carlos Silva/Jeremi Gonzalez
RP - Francisco Rodriguez (K-Rod)
RP - Ugueth Urbina
SP/RP - Gustavo Chacin
1B - Magglio Ordonez
2B - Cesar Izturis/Miguel Cairo
SS - Carlos Guillen/Omar Vizquel
3B - Melvin Mora/Edgardo Alfonso
LF - Miguel Cabrera
CF - Bobby Abreu
RF - Richard Hidalgo
C - Ramon Hernandez/Victor Martinez/Henry Blanco

You have to get through this, before even talking about beating Yankees.

 

[trina]

Here's a quick view of Venezuela's lineup INCLUDING pitching and catching. I'm only going one level deep just to prove a point. They match the DR's offense-only lineup, PLUS they have pitching and catching. Venezuela ain't to be ignored. They have a very good team.

SP - Johan Santana
SP - Carlos Zambrano
SP - Freddie Garcia
SP - Victor Zambrano
SP - Carlos Silva/Jeremi Gonzalez
RP - Francisco Rodriguez (K-Rod)
RP - Ugueth Urbina
SP/RP - Gustavo Chacin
1B - Magglio Ordonez
2B - Cesar Izturis/Miguel Cairo
SS - Carlos Guillen/Omar Vizquel
3B - Melvin Mora/Edgardo Alfonso
LF - Miguel Cabrera
CF - Bobby Abreu
RF - Richard Hidalgo
C - Ramon Hernandez/Victor Martinez/Henry Blanco

You're the one that's dreaming, if you think these bats are better than DR's. Shall we talk numbers and stats? Nice try, though.
You have to get through this, before even talking about beating Yankees.

As I said, Venezuela has a great defence, but they're not even close on the offense. Shall we talk numbers and stats? You'd be foolish to think they can out-bat the DR team. Nice try, though.

 

[SKY]

Mr. Toneloc,

I have another special for you since you obviously have no money to back the U.S.team.

How about me laying you 2/1 with the D.R. vs. Venezuela? Whoever goes further or any way you prefer. The D.R. will eat Venezuela for breakfast, than the U.S. for lunch, my friend.

Same amount my $50,000 to your $25,000. I know you never run away.

 

[toneloc24]

As I said, Venezuela has a great defence, but they're not even close on the offense. Shall we talk numbers and stats? You'd be foolish to think they can out-bat the DR team. Nice try, though.

Trina - You still don't get it. All Venezuela has to score is 4 or 5 runs. The DR team won't score more than 3. Great pitching ALWAYS trumps great hitting. If we talk stats, it gets worse.

After Pedro, there is no pitching. In a 5 game series, Venezuela will win 3-1. In a 7 game series, Venezuela will win 4-2.

 

[SKY]

For my friend rellosk,

First off, I never said I was in my right mind. I just want to back my Country. But that should not matter, only the fact that I put my money where my mouth is.

Second, I know who will play for the D.R. and that is all I care about. Whoever shows up for the U.S. I am sure will be good also.

As far as the legality of this, I am in the gambling business in this country and can assure you it will be perfectly legal here.

 

[toneloc24]

Mr. Toneloc,

I have another special for you since you obviously have no money to back the U.S.team.

How about me laying you 2/1 with the D.R. vs. Venezuela? Whoever goes further or any way you prefer. The D.R. will eat Venezuela for breakfast, than the U.S. for lunch, my friend.

Same amount my $50,000 to your $25,000. I know you never run away.

How about just laying your bets in Las Vegas? Same odds? Leave us alone with your money ****. If you need to owe money so badly, just go to the bank. I don't know you. You can't bait me.

I'm only defending the US team BECAUSE people are going TOO far with their dreams of grandeur. I really could care less. DR or Venezuela. The facts are that the DR is lack pitching, catching, and fielding. It'll be tough to beat Venezuela with that alone, much less stand a chance against the US team. 2nd or 3rd place ain't bad, LOL!!!!

In the USA, we have other sports to entertain ourselves. And football is starting up right now. There goes my interest in baseball until late October when the Yankees make it back to the World Series.

 

[SKY]

I am not trying to make enemies, just giving someone the chance to win some cash on his own country.

It is easy to talk sometimes, but harder to back your talk up with something that counts. No hard feelings, I understand.

 

[rellosk]

For my friend rellosk,

First off, I never said I was in my right mind. I just want to back my Country. But that should not matter, only the fact that I put my money where my mouth is.

Second, I know who will play for the D.R. and that is all I care about. Whoever shows up for the U.S. I am sure will be good also.

As far as the legality of this, I am in the gambling business in this country and can assure you it will be perfectly legal here.

SKY,

First off, I was not referring to you. I was referring to the people whom you were expecting to take you up on your bet.

Second, as I wrote, the rosters are not known and won't be know until the end of the MLB season. Some of the players you think might be playing, may not even be available due to injuries and/or contract restrictions.

Thank you for the information regarding the legality of gambling contracts in the DR. In the US I believe they are illegal in most states.

BTW, I think you were being a bit presumptuous in your opening remark.

 

[trina]

Here's a quick view of Venezuela's lineup INCLUDING pitching and catching. I'm only going one level deep just to prove a point. They match the DR's offense-only lineup, PLUS they have pitching and catching. Venezuela ain't to be ignored. They have a very good team.

SP - Johan Santana
SP - Carlos Zambrano
SP - Freddie Garcia
SP - Victor Zambrano
SP - Carlos Silva/Jeremi Gonzalez
RP - Francisco Rodriguez (K-Rod)
RP - Ugueth Urbina
SP/RP - Gustavo Chacin
1B - Magglio Ordonez
2B - Cesar Izturis/Miguel Cairo
SS - Carlos Guillen/Omar Vizquel
3B - Melvin Mora/Edgardo Alfonso
LF - Miguel Cabrera
CF - Bobby Abreu
RF - Richard Hidalgo
C - Ramon Hernandez/Victor Martinez/Henry Blanco

You have to get through this, before even talking about beating Yankees.

You're quite funny, toneloc. DR's alternates could out-bat Venezuela. I'm quite aware that you love to stir the pot with your anti-DR baseball comments, so on that note, I won't bite the bait anymore. Thanks for the laugh, though.

 

[toneloc24]

You're quite funny, toneloc. DR's alternates could out-bat Venezuela. I'm quite aware that you love to stir the pot with your anti-DR baseball comments, so on that note, I won't bite the bait anymore. Thanks for the laugh, though.

Whoa!!! When did I say anything anti-DR? I've only stated baseball facts.

The DR team does NOT have great pitching after Pedro. Nor is there a catcher or centerfield. Can you admit that? Or does your pride blind you from facts?

ANYONE who knows anything about baseball knows, if you're not strong up the middle (C, P, 2B, SS, CF) defensively, you will lose. Offense DEFINITELY ain't everything. Don't be surprised or shocked if all those great DR hitters do nothing. Great pitching/defense shuts down great offense. That applies to every sport. That's not anti-DR, that's just a fact.

I could give a rat's *** if the USA wins. It's USA's game, it's supposed to win. I probably won't even watch it.

 

[DRPAWA]

No Doubt About USA

Hey Toneloc, there's no doubt that the US team will be the one to beat in the World Baseball Classic. But the teams have not yet been set so it could happen - as it did with basketball in the Olympics - that the USA will field a stinker of a team (relatively speaking, of course). Remeber, players not only have to be willing but also have to get permission from their respective clubs to participate.

One of the stats posted during the All-Star home-run contest was that there are about 109 Dominican players currently playing for MLB teams. I think that gives DR enough of a pool to be able to field a great team. Now, based on an ESPN poll I look at a couple of months ago the concensus is for the USA to win although most people that were asked (about 12,000) said they wanted to see a USA vs DR finals. I assume it's because they believe the DR team will be that good.

BTW, Randy Johnson? Are you crazy? Roger Clemens? - Doesn't his kid have a game that week? ehehehehehe!

 

[toneloc24]

Here are the brackets so far, Cuba still up in the air.

Pool 1 - Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan
Pool 2 - Puerto Rico, Cuba, Italy, Panama
Pool 3 - Canada, Mexico, South Africa, USA
Pool 4 - Australia, DR, Netherlands, Venezuela

Ok, let's forget Schilling, Johnson. We know all of the players aren't playing for the USA. However, what makes you think the same doesn't apply of the other teams as well? Pedro has a frail arm. Manny, ARod, Vlad, Tejada, Bonds, Jeter all command upwards of $100 million each. You think their employers won't have something to say as well?

Here's what Baseball America projects as some of the lineups.

UNITED STATES
C?Jason Varitek (Red Sox)
1B?Todd Helton (Rockies)
2B?Jeff Kent (Dodgers)
3B?Scott Rolen (Cardinals)
SS?Alex Rodriguez (Yankees)
LF?Lance Berkman (Astros)
CF?Jim Edmonds (Cardinals)
RF?Gary Sheffield (Yankees)
DH?Barry Bonds (Giants)
SP?Roger Clemens (Astros)
SP?Mark Prior (Cubs)
SP?Ben Sheets (Brewers)
SP?Mark Mulder (Cardinals)
RP?Billy Wagner (Phillies)
Manager: Bobby Cox (Braves)

DR
C?Miguel Olivo (Mariners)
1B?Albert Pujols (Cardinals)
2B?Alfonso Soriano (Rangers)
3B?Aramis Ramirez (Cubs)
SS? Miguel Tejada (Orioles)
LF?Manny Ramirez (Red Sox)
CF?Jose Guillen (Nationals)
RF?Vladimir Guerrero (Angels)
DH?David Ortiz (Red Sox)
SP?Pedro Martinez (Mets)
SP?Bartolo Colon (Angels)
SP?Odalis Perez (Dodgers)
SP?Daniel Cabrera (Orioles)
RP?Francisco Cordero (Rangers)
Manager: Felipe Alou (Giants)

Venezuela
C?Ramon Hernandez (Padres)
1B?Edgardo Alfonzo (Giants)
2B?Cesar Izturis (Dodgers)
3B?Carlos Guillen (Tigers)
SS?Omar Vizquel (Giants)
LF?Melvin Mora (Orioles)
CF?Bob Abreu (Phillies)
RF?Miguel Cabrera (Marlins)
DH?Magglio Ordonez (Tigers)
SP?Johan Santana (Twins)
SP?Carlos Zambrano (Cubs)
SP?Freddy Garcia (White Sox)
SP?Kelvim Escobar (Angels)
RP?Francisco Rodriguez (Angels)
Manager: Ozzie Guillen, White Sox

Mexico
C?Miguel Ojeda (Padres)
1B?Guillermo Velasquez
2B?Jorge Cantu (Devil Rays)
3B?Vinny Castilla (Nationals)
SS?Alfredo Amezaga (Pirates)
LF?Mario Valenzuela
CF?Luis Garcia
RF?Karim Garcia
DH?Erubiel Durazo (Athletics)
SP?Esteban Loiaza (Nationals)
SP?Oliver Perez (Pirates)
SP?Rodrigo Lopez (Orioles)
SP?Elmer Dessens (Dodgers)
RP?Luis Ayala (Nationals)
Manager: Fernando Valenzuela

Canada
C?Pete LaForest (Devil Rays)
1B?Justin Morneau (Twins)
2B?Pete Orr (Braves)
3B?Cory Koskie (Blue Jays)
SS?Danny Klassen (Astros)
LF?Jason Bay (Pirates)
CF?Aaron Guiel (Royals)
RF?Larry Walker (Cardinals)
DH?Matt Stairs (Royals)
SP?Rich Harden (Athletics)
SP?Erik Bedard (Orioles)
SP?Jeff Francis (Rockies)
SP?Ryan Dempster (Cubs)
RP?Eric Gagne (Dodgers)
Manager: Ernie Whitt (Blue Jays)

Puerto Rico
C?Ivan Rodriguez (Tigers)
1B?Carlos Delgado (Marlins)
2B?Jose Vidro (Nationals)
3B?Mike Lowell (Marlins)
SS?Alex Cora (Indians)
LF?Alexis Rios (Blue Jays)
CF?Carlos Beltran (Mets)
RF?Jose Cruz Jr. (Diamondbacks)
DH?Javy Lopez (Orioles)
SP?Javier Vazquez (Diamondbacks)
SP?Joel Pineiro (Mariners)
SP?J.C. Romero (Twins)
SP?Kiko Calero (Athletics)
RP?Roberto Hernandez (Mets)
Manager: Jose Cruz Sr. (Astros)

Here's the link to all of this, with some commentary. http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/news/050511worldcuprosters.html

Hey Toneloc, there's no doubt that the US team will be the one to beat in the World Baseball Classic. But the teams have not yet been set so it could happen - as it did with basketball in the Olympics - that the USA will field a stinker of a team (relatively speaking, of course). Remeber, players not only have to be willing but also have to get permission from their respective clubs to participate.

One of the stats posted during the All-Star home-run contest was that there are about 109 Dominican players currently playing for MLB teams. I think that gives DR enough of a pool to be able to field a great team. Now, based on an ESPN poll I look at a couple of months ago the concensus is for the USA to win although most people that were asked (about 12,000) said they wanted to see a USA vs DR finals. I assume it's because they believe the DR team will be that good.

BTW, Randy Johnson? Are you crazy? Roger Clemens? - Doesn't his kid have a game that week? ehehehehehe!

 

[rellosk]

toneloc24, great link!

 

[frank alvarez]

toneloc you can't be serious!?

1B - Magglio Ordonez
2B - Cesar Izturis/Miguel Cairo
SS - Carlos Guillen/Omar Vizquel
3B - Melvin Mora/Edgardo Alfonso
LF - Miguel Cabrera
CF - Bobby Abreu
RF - Richard Hidalgo
C - Ramon Hernandez/Victor Martinez/Henry Blanco

1. Albert Pujols over Magglio Ordonez hands down;
2. Alfonso Soriano over both Izturis and Cairo, without question;
3. Miguel Tejada over Guillen and Vizquel;
4. Aramis Ramirez and/or Adrian Beltre no question over Mora/Alfonso;
5. Manny, Vlad and Guillen over Cabrera/Abreu/Hidalgo;
6. I'll give you the catcher position without question.

Bats in hand, the DR line-up cannot be equaled by anyone.

 

[DRPAWA]

"frank alvarez]1. Albert Pujols over Magglio Ordonez hands down;
2. Alfonso Soriano over both Izturis and Cairo, without question;
3. Miguel Tejada over Guillen and Vizquel;
4. Aramis Ramirez and/or Adrian Beltre no question over Mora/Alfonso;
5. Manny, Vlad and Guillen over Cabrera/Abreu/Hidalgo;
6. I'll give you the catcher position without question.

Bats in hand, the DR line-up cannot be equaled by anyone."

Frank, comparing players one for one will give the edge to DR players. However, as has been pointed out already, Venezuela has some really tough pitchers.
Johan, Zambrano, Garcia - YO! Scarry!!!!

Furthermore, this is one TEAM playing against another team! Just because Dominican players put up superstar numbers does not mean that they'll gel as a team and play their arses off. Sure, you can count on Tejada to play 1000% (yes, I meant thousand), but can you picture Manny going all out?


BTW, I heard over one of the recent Yankee broadcasts that the Boss (AKA George Steinbrenner) will not permit any of his players to participate in this tornament - See ya A-Rod!

 

[toneloc24]

BTW, I heard over one of the recent Yankee broadcasts that the Boss (AKA George Steinbrenner) will not permit any of his players to participate in this tornament - See ya A-Rod!

And here's what these guys don't get, Steinbrenner isn't the ONLY owner thinking the exact same way. They are not anymore interested in these highly-paid investments taking chances with ruining their seasons over this tournaments, than these same dudes riding motorcycles or jet-skis. Pujols, Manny, Pedro, Ortiz, Tejada, all of them fall into this area.

Do not be surprised if players must sign contract waivers in order to participate. Meaning, if you get injured during this World Cup or fail to make the opening day roster, you forfeit money. Let's see which DR stars sign that waiver. Some of the Americans will sign it, hence the depth issue.

The US team can still win it all without ARod, Jeter, Bonds, Sheffield, Schilling, and Johnson. Can the DR do the same?

 

[trina]

Furthermore, this is one TEAM playing against another team! Just because Dominican players put up superstar numbers does not mean that they'll gel as a team and play their arses off. Sure, you can count on Tejada to play 1000% (yes, I meant thousand), but can you picture Manny going all out?

Going by your theory, you must remember that this theory applies to all teams. Now think about Dominican pride, and how baseball is the lifeblood of most Dominican men. Who do you think will put forth a better effort to represent their country than the DR? My money, hands down, is on the DR if we're talking teamwork. Anyone whose money is on Venezuela against the DR, how come Venezuela can never beat them in the Carribean series?