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John
Guest
a haitian living in our dominican republic burned our flag and he was just deported. he was very lucky that the president is not Balaguer or Trujillo.
Dominican flag burned by haitian
E
ECH, M.D.
Guest
You ought to be American, John, even our own citizens (not to mention scores of foreign countries) burn the U.S. Flag as a form of protest. I, personally, resent it...but guess THEY have a right to protest.
C
Carol
Guest
come on guys let's be honest---it should be obvious-the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression far exceeds your feelings for a piece of cloth, as dearly as you may hold it--lot's of emotion here but in your heart you know it's right to burn a flag in protest--where's the harm
E
ECH, M.D.
Guest
Re: Just a piece of cloth?
Carol, apparently you did not read the last sentence...I said THEY (flag burners) had a RIGHT to protest.
And yes, it is just a piece of cloth....but you should read more about symbolism...to many, it is not the cloth but what it represents....
It has been a LONG time, but in grade school AND high school, every morning, we did the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG.
WHY? For what purpose I ask you? To teach us to memorize?
I don't know your age but have you ever heard of SURIBACHI
A volcanic hill on the island of Iwo Jima.
It is famous for the dramatic photograph of U.S. Marines raising the American flag on its summit on February 23, 1945, after the island was captured from the Japanese.
It was just a little piece of cloth....why the big deal?
One of the two most famous photos of the era and it now stands as a monument in Washington, D.C.
You mention freedom of speech and freedom of expression....exactly two of the things the flag "represents"
Carol, apparently you did not read the last sentence...I said THEY (flag burners) had a RIGHT to protest.
And yes, it is just a piece of cloth....but you should read more about symbolism...to many, it is not the cloth but what it represents....
It has been a LONG time, but in grade school AND high school, every morning, we did the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG.
WHY? For what purpose I ask you? To teach us to memorize?
I don't know your age but have you ever heard of SURIBACHI
A volcanic hill on the island of Iwo Jima.
It is famous for the dramatic photograph of U.S. Marines raising the American flag on its summit on February 23, 1945, after the island was captured from the Japanese.
It was just a little piece of cloth....why the big deal?
One of the two most famous photos of the era and it now stands as a monument in Washington, D.C.
You mention freedom of speech and freedom of expression....exactly two of the things the flag "represents"
D
Doug
Guest
Carol...I can't believe you said "but in your heart you know it's right to burn a flag in protest" may I ask what countrie your from? Certainly not from Canada or the U.S.A.(I hope)Carol it's never right to burn a flag...accepted maybe...right never!
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Rafael
Guest
To ECH, M.D.
First of all, exactly what were they protesting?
Second, you're right, there is a Suribachi monument in D.C. But the original one stands proudly on the 1st Batallion Parade Deck at Marine Corps Recruit Training Depot, Parris Island, S.C.
Rafael.
First of all, exactly what were they protesting?
Second, you're right, there is a Suribachi monument in D.C. But the original one stands proudly on the 1st Batallion Parade Deck at Marine Corps Recruit Training Depot, Parris Island, S.C.
Rafael.
E
ECH, M.D.
Guest
Re: To RAFAEL
Not exactly sure what they were protesting....some have said it was a protest, some a sort of ritual others claim they did not have money to return to Haiti and wanted to be deported....who knows?
Yes, have seen BOTH monuments but more tourists get to see the one in DC (fortunately or unfortunately?)
Rafael, why do I get the distinct impression you are a "jar head"?
CHEERS!
Not exactly sure what they were protesting....some have said it was a protest, some a sort of ritual others claim they did not have money to return to Haiti and wanted to be deported....who knows?
Yes, have seen BOTH monuments but more tourists get to see the one in DC (fortunately or unfortunately?)
Rafael, why do I get the distinct impression you are a "jar head"?
CHEERS!
C
Carol
Guest
thanks for the history lesson gentlemen--of course it's a symbol and a symbol that is probably revered, if not held sacred, by the vast majority of americans---a symbol of the freedoms they cherish living in the land of the free
it is for that very reason that the flag is chosen as an instrument of protest-----to spit upon, to burn, or in any way demean what americans hold sacred is,probably in the eyes of the protesters,
the most powerful and effective way to express their outrage or disgust at what they perceive to be an injustice
come on gentlemen--it's a protest--roll with the punches--you've been watching too many john wayne movies---hmmmmm-now there's a good way of protesting--burn john wayne in effigy
and yes doug,i'm canadian, who along with the vast majority of canadians are constantly amused at how easily american sensibilities are offended
it is for that very reason that the flag is chosen as an instrument of protest-----to spit upon, to burn, or in any way demean what americans hold sacred is,probably in the eyes of the protesters,
the most powerful and effective way to express their outrage or disgust at what they perceive to be an injustice
come on gentlemen--it's a protest--roll with the punches--you've been watching too many john wayne movies---hmmmmm-now there's a good way of protesting--burn john wayne in effigy
and yes doug,i'm canadian, who along with the vast majority of canadians are constantly amused at how easily american sensibilities are offended
T
Tgf
Guest
Carol,
I don't think you read the whole thread very carefully. First, it was a Dominican flag that was burned by a Haitian in the Dominican Republic. Secondly, Doug is posting from a Canadian site and stated that most Canadians and U.S. citizens would be upset about their flag being burnt. Nowhere was the issue made into a solely U.S.A problem.
Actually, Carol, I think you might avoid the generalizations of "the vast majority of Canadians are constantly amused" since I doubt you have done any serious research to back up that statement. Yes, the flag is a powerful symbol and, yes, many people get upset when they see it degraded, whether they are U.S. citizens, Canadians, Dominicans, or any other nationality makes little difference. Also, there are protesters who like to protest for the sake of protesting, individuals who like to argue and disagree because they can, and voice a different point of view because legally they are protected from the possibility of random arrest. Try burning a national flag in protest in places like China, Vietnam, or North Korea and see how mild the official response will be.
I don't think you read the whole thread very carefully. First, it was a Dominican flag that was burned by a Haitian in the Dominican Republic. Secondly, Doug is posting from a Canadian site and stated that most Canadians and U.S. citizens would be upset about their flag being burnt. Nowhere was the issue made into a solely U.S.A problem.
Actually, Carol, I think you might avoid the generalizations of "the vast majority of Canadians are constantly amused" since I doubt you have done any serious research to back up that statement. Yes, the flag is a powerful symbol and, yes, many people get upset when they see it degraded, whether they are U.S. citizens, Canadians, Dominicans, or any other nationality makes little difference. Also, there are protesters who like to protest for the sake of protesting, individuals who like to argue and disagree because they can, and voice a different point of view because legally they are protected from the possibility of random arrest. Try burning a national flag in protest in places like China, Vietnam, or North Korea and see how mild the official response will be.
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ECH, M.D.
Guest
i'm canadian, who along with the vast majority of canadians are constantly amused at how easily american sensibilities are offended
I find it difficult to believe you are the spokesperson for the majority of my Canadian Cousins.
I vividly recall the time in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics after Canada had saved "the bacon" of several American hostages in the Middle East crisis.....when Canada marched into the arena....it was to a STANDING OVATION by thousands of Americans who were most appreciative of our Canadian Cousins. There was hardly a dry eye in the place.....I know.....I was there.
And on a more personal note; on two separate occasions, years ago, MY "bacon" was saved by the intervention of some Canadians when I was in the Far East and again in Europe. The "locals" thought they had an easy mark in a bar and it was Canadians who came to the rescue of a "mate."
I would no more approve of desecration of the Maple Leaf than I would the Stars and Stripes and the Canadians that I KNOW would not either.
burn John Wayne in effigy.... not a bad idea; but for a different reason than yours.....turns out he was a wife beater and a drunk...but maybe "macho" John had a right?
Let me end this by saying....you are certainly not like any Canadians I know....the ones that I know respect the fact and are proud that we share the largest un-guarded border in the world.
And as tgf said....and alluded to the fact, that you can be in some countries and get shot for protest or saying unkind words about the leaders of said country.
I find it difficult to believe you are the spokesperson for the majority of my Canadian Cousins.
I vividly recall the time in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics after Canada had saved "the bacon" of several American hostages in the Middle East crisis.....when Canada marched into the arena....it was to a STANDING OVATION by thousands of Americans who were most appreciative of our Canadian Cousins. There was hardly a dry eye in the place.....I know.....I was there.
And on a more personal note; on two separate occasions, years ago, MY "bacon" was saved by the intervention of some Canadians when I was in the Far East and again in Europe. The "locals" thought they had an easy mark in a bar and it was Canadians who came to the rescue of a "mate."
I would no more approve of desecration of the Maple Leaf than I would the Stars and Stripes and the Canadians that I KNOW would not either.
burn John Wayne in effigy.... not a bad idea; but for a different reason than yours.....turns out he was a wife beater and a drunk...but maybe "macho" John had a right?
Let me end this by saying....you are certainly not like any Canadians I know....the ones that I know respect the fact and are proud that we share the largest un-guarded border in the world.
And as tgf said....and alluded to the fact, that you can be in some countries and get shot for protest or saying unkind words about the leaders of said country.
D
Doug
Guest
Very well put Ehc, and Carol yes I am a Canadien, and very very proud of it, also I am proud to have the U.S.of A. as my friendly neighbors. dulce et decorum est pro patriamori!
C
Carol
Guest
i have read your message twice--you're right and i couldn't agree more --there's nothing better than being a canadian--i think that's why we're liked --our identify is a negataive--we're not american-simply nice people --that is to say we're not flag beares which is what i thought this whole thing was about
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Rafael
Guest
Gee???
What ever gave you that idea?
Maybe the overwhelming urge I get to snap to attention everytime I hear the Star Spangled Banner...or maybe that chill I get down my back, and feelings of nostalgia when I see a Discovery Channel special on Marine Corps Recruit training where they interview the Drill Instructors...
CHEERS to you too.
What ever gave you that idea?
Maybe the overwhelming urge I get to snap to attention everytime I hear the Star Spangled Banner...or maybe that chill I get down my back, and feelings of nostalgia when I see a Discovery Channel special on Marine Corps Recruit training where they interview the Drill Instructors...
CHEERS to you too.
T
Tom
Guest
R
Rafael
Guest
W
W. Mejia
Guest
I wonder why they put the US flag on the moon? they maight aswell had put some dirty undergarment, after all it's just another piece of cloth.
Isn't it, Carol?
How many Haitian flags do they burn in their country I wonder?
After all, there isn't a single hospital there, not schools, not drinkable water, not jobs, no human rights of any kind.
It's like those UASD Marxists form the 60's and 70's, they used to burn the American flag in protest but now many of them are living in NYC, "hurting the beast from within" as they say.
Isn't it, Carol?
How many Haitian flags do they burn in their country I wonder?
After all, there isn't a single hospital there, not schools, not drinkable water, not jobs, no human rights of any kind.
It's like those UASD Marxists form the 60's and 70's, they used to burn the American flag in protest but now many of them are living in NYC, "hurting the beast from within" as they say.
T
Tom
Guest
W. Mejia
Carol posts from the DR, how can you expect her to understand a symbol of freedom? How can you expect her to understand a "piece of cloth" represents the lives of those who preserve freedom, how can you expect Carol to understand what it is to lose the lives of friends and relatives protecting "freedom" "Carol" lives in a country torn by past revolution and invasion, but without the "piece of cloth" that men have picked up as a symbol of that very freedom they seek, often to be killed doing so.(I'm not so foolish as to say that the Dominican people do not love their flag, but I have heard few stories of unarmed Domincan Soldiers picking up the downed "Colors" and marching forward to rally troops in a hopeless situation, almost always dying in the process)
It disgusts me to see people desecrate the American flag, but I no longer say anything; fully realizing these are ignorant (I did not say stupid, but ignorant of the sacrifices of others)people who do not have, nor ever will have the understanding of , Duty,Honor Country. These are the leeches of society, the ones that protest when their welfare checks are cut, when their Government subsidies are lowered, the people that run when they are asked to do their part to preserve that proud tradition of freedom. The people that will hide behind the very paper the flag represents, our Constitution; Saying we "have the right to burn the flag, it is an expression of free speech." They are correct,they have that right preserved for them by men and women who have died in hell holes protecting that very same flag they burn.
Let "Carol" and those like her burn, trample and do whatever they wish to the flag, it doesn't matter as the flag truly is only a symbol, and if "Carol" and those like him/her do not understand that symbol, what matter does it take?
Tom
Carol posts from the DR, how can you expect her to understand a symbol of freedom? How can you expect her to understand a "piece of cloth" represents the lives of those who preserve freedom, how can you expect Carol to understand what it is to lose the lives of friends and relatives protecting "freedom" "Carol" lives in a country torn by past revolution and invasion, but without the "piece of cloth" that men have picked up as a symbol of that very freedom they seek, often to be killed doing so.(I'm not so foolish as to say that the Dominican people do not love their flag, but I have heard few stories of unarmed Domincan Soldiers picking up the downed "Colors" and marching forward to rally troops in a hopeless situation, almost always dying in the process)
It disgusts me to see people desecrate the American flag, but I no longer say anything; fully realizing these are ignorant (I did not say stupid, but ignorant of the sacrifices of others)people who do not have, nor ever will have the understanding of , Duty,Honor Country. These are the leeches of society, the ones that protest when their welfare checks are cut, when their Government subsidies are lowered, the people that run when they are asked to do their part to preserve that proud tradition of freedom. The people that will hide behind the very paper the flag represents, our Constitution; Saying we "have the right to burn the flag, it is an expression of free speech." They are correct,they have that right preserved for them by men and women who have died in hell holes protecting that very same flag they burn.
Let "Carol" and those like her burn, trample and do whatever they wish to the flag, it doesn't matter as the flag truly is only a symbol, and if "Carol" and those like him/her do not understand that symbol, what matter does it take?
Tom
C
Carol
Guest
My My---I'm so teary eyed
It never ceases to amaze me how persons like W.Mejia and Tom think---only scum,leeches on society, the hippies, the cowards,the unpatriotic, the druggies would have the audacity to burn a flag in protest-
they simply can't contemplate that an intelligent, patriotic, productive member of society could desecrate a symbol to protest against what they perceive to be an injustice- with 1 exception all southern states have removed the confederate flag-it's because it's a symbol of all the injustices committed against black americans-blacks aren't justified in desecrating that flag--jews couln't desecrate the evil symbol of the nazi regime-need i go on--you can't have it both ways--are blacks and jews leeches---to your emotional,macho and infantile way of thinking i guess so-or does it all come down to your perspective-with your logical way of thinking i can only say -God bless America--it needs it
It never ceases to amaze me how persons like W.Mejia and Tom think---only scum,leeches on society, the hippies, the cowards,the unpatriotic, the druggies would have the audacity to burn a flag in protest-
they simply can't contemplate that an intelligent, patriotic, productive member of society could desecrate a symbol to protest against what they perceive to be an injustice- with 1 exception all southern states have removed the confederate flag-it's because it's a symbol of all the injustices committed against black americans-blacks aren't justified in desecrating that flag--jews couln't desecrate the evil symbol of the nazi regime-need i go on--you can't have it both ways--are blacks and jews leeches---to your emotional,macho and infantile way of thinking i guess so-or does it all come down to your perspective-with your logical way of thinking i can only say -God bless America--it needs it
J
J.H.H.
Guest
T
Tom
Guest
Carol, You're plain pathetic, we cry for you
Carol
for once I agree with your statement
"they simply can't contemplate that an intelligent, patriotic, productive member of society could desecrate a symbol to protest against what they perceive to be an injustice"
No I can not
Was my post worded in such a way that you could not undertsand that I said I understood that people such as yourself can't possibly understand why people respect the flag? If you had trouble comprhending it, say so instead of further establishing yourself as a complete fool.
Are you trying to say the Stars and Stripe represent the same symbols as the Nazi Flag? The Confederate flag is neither purposefully desecrated nor "burned" Popular vote has had it removed from most public bulidings, a method of democracy you have aproblem understanding.
It is useless to argue with apathy, take what you can get from the public dole and cry about the evils of having to defend freedom, you really are a pathethic person
Carol
for once I agree with your statement
"they simply can't contemplate that an intelligent, patriotic, productive member of society could desecrate a symbol to protest against what they perceive to be an injustice"
No I can not
Was my post worded in such a way that you could not undertsand that I said I understood that people such as yourself can't possibly understand why people respect the flag? If you had trouble comprhending it, say so instead of further establishing yourself as a complete fool.
Are you trying to say the Stars and Stripe represent the same symbols as the Nazi Flag? The Confederate flag is neither purposefully desecrated nor "burned" Popular vote has had it removed from most public bulidings, a method of democracy you have aproblem understanding.
It is useless to argue with apathy, take what you can get from the public dole and cry about the evils of having to defend freedom, you really are a pathethic person