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Dominican Immigrants in the U.S.: Poverty, Education and Welfare
LOl Sking, it certainly doesnt make sense. Even I have gripes with the u.s. companies and government conveniently forgetting their laws. After all, I too would enjoy the benefit of higher wages if americans werent so keen on giving jobs to people they know good and well are illegal. its all a vicious cycle. if there werent jobs being given out BY AMERICANS, people would know not to come looking for under the table work. so i feel like theres blame on both ends, you know?
and tying it into the situation with dominicans, if it wasnt so easy to just get everything, they would have to stop being so misinformed.
my position is that, laws need to change in the u.s. and we as dominicans and/or dominican residents need to do our part to mend those particular broken ideas.
people can say what they want but i really have never known unemployed dominicans in the u.s. whether it be under the table or legally. maybe its just me. we work. REALLY hard too. that i am very proud of. public assistance alone isnt building these houses and sending all the remesas back. we arent afraid to break a sweat and make sacrifices when need be. we are also the most likely amongst hispanic 2nd gen immigrants to have college degrees. that must say something about us!
i think its important to note that a great lot of us are hardworking, self-sufficient and law-abiding, so you generally dont ever notice us. it doesnt mean we arent there. however, for those of us who are....questionable? yes. time to get right.
and tying it into the situation with dominicans, if it wasnt so easy to just get everything, they would have to stop being so misinformed.
my position is that, laws need to change in the u.s. and we as dominicans and/or dominican residents need to do our part to mend those particular broken ideas.
people can say what they want but i really have never known unemployed dominicans in the u.s. whether it be under the table or legally. maybe its just me. we work. REALLY hard too. that i am very proud of. public assistance alone isnt building these houses and sending all the remesas back. we arent afraid to break a sweat and make sacrifices when need be. we are also the most likely amongst hispanic 2nd gen immigrants to have college degrees. that must say something about us!
i think its important to note that a great lot of us are hardworking, self-sufficient and law-abiding, so you generally dont ever notice us. it doesnt mean we arent there. however, for those of us who are....questionable? yes. time to get right.
Dominican Americans - Overview, History, Immigration, Relations with other americans, Acculturation and assimilation, Cuisine, Holidays
This site is a profile of Dominican immigrants in the United States, and touches upon some of the possible reasons thrown about in the thread for the high use of public assistance. It says that despite being more familiar with U.S. cultural, they do not assimilate well. That they end up in non-formal (off the books), non-unionized jobs for low wages. And that while their use of welfare was lower in the 80's, when the immigrants had higher educational levels, is has risen significantly throughout the 90's.
I have searched for more statistics, and have been unable to come up with anything else about foreign-born Dominican immigrants. I think this group is extremely understudied in many fields, and the info isn't out there. On one search I did, THIS THREAD from DR1 came up on the second page of results! It seems like this report from the CIS is the main body of information about this area (unfortunately), unless someone has access to an academic database. More research needs to be done. And my guess is that as time goes on and immigration becomes more of a pressing issue in the United States, people will want to know more about groups of immigrants from specific countries. Especially lobbyists and interest groups, because stats like these about Dominicans can be used to influence immigration reform, for better or worse.
I can't say that I believe the original stats 100%, or will say that there are not errors in the methodology, or other things to account for. But I will say that I do believe that the Dominican-born immigrants are among the highest in use of public assistance, significantly higher than other similar countries.
One of main theories about the abusers is this: the "dame lo mio", "dame algo" social/economic/political culture that is so rampant in the DR knows no borders. It does not matter what it is-a pack of crackers at a presentation, mosquito nets, clothing handouts from a non-profit, medicine they don't need from a medical mission, funditas of food after a flood in a town that barely got a drop of rain, notebooks for school, zinc for the roof, cash from politicians for a vote, a job they didn't earn through merit, a monthly salary for work they don't even do at all-[most] people want it and will take it if they can get it. It doesn't matter if they need it or not, if they are rich or poor, can buy it on their own or not, that there are 100 people in line in front of them that got there first and need it more than they do. They want theirs, and the next person's if they can get it, and maybe a few more to sell in the colmado or give to their sister. Why? Well, they just CAN, I guess. (I'll leave it at that).
They go to Nueba Yol. What CAN they do there? Well, there is a formal system for getting an ayuda. And it doesn't matter if you are purple or white or red, have been attending the right church, or if your brother's friend knows fulano! There are other guidelines, but with a couple of mentiritas, se resuelve todo.
On the bright side, this culture actually helps people who legitimately need help to go out and get it without shame and embarrassment. While there are abusers everywhere, they are also those who are too "proud" to use any form of government assistance, which seems inspiring but isn't always a good thing. Or perhaps it was not a part of their culture in their home country. They would think 'I just need to work/try harder', 'that's for poor people who really need it, not for me', or even 'that's for lazy people'. For good or bad, I doubt there are many Dominican-born immigrants in that crowd.
This site is a profile of Dominican immigrants in the United States, and touches upon some of the possible reasons thrown about in the thread for the high use of public assistance. It says that despite being more familiar with U.S. cultural, they do not assimilate well. That they end up in non-formal (off the books), non-unionized jobs for low wages. And that while their use of welfare was lower in the 80's, when the immigrants had higher educational levels, is has risen significantly throughout the 90's.
I have searched for more statistics, and have been unable to come up with anything else about foreign-born Dominican immigrants. I think this group is extremely understudied in many fields, and the info isn't out there. On one search I did, THIS THREAD from DR1 came up on the second page of results! It seems like this report from the CIS is the main body of information about this area (unfortunately), unless someone has access to an academic database. More research needs to be done. And my guess is that as time goes on and immigration becomes more of a pressing issue in the United States, people will want to know more about groups of immigrants from specific countries. Especially lobbyists and interest groups, because stats like these about Dominicans can be used to influence immigration reform, for better or worse.
I can't say that I believe the original stats 100%, or will say that there are not errors in the methodology, or other things to account for. But I will say that I do believe that the Dominican-born immigrants are among the highest in use of public assistance, significantly higher than other similar countries.
One of main theories about the abusers is this: the "dame lo mio", "dame algo" social/economic/political culture that is so rampant in the DR knows no borders. It does not matter what it is-a pack of crackers at a presentation, mosquito nets, clothing handouts from a non-profit, medicine they don't need from a medical mission, funditas of food after a flood in a town that barely got a drop of rain, notebooks for school, zinc for the roof, cash from politicians for a vote, a job they didn't earn through merit, a monthly salary for work they don't even do at all-[most] people want it and will take it if they can get it. It doesn't matter if they need it or not, if they are rich or poor, can buy it on their own or not, that there are 100 people in line in front of them that got there first and need it more than they do. They want theirs, and the next person's if they can get it, and maybe a few more to sell in the colmado or give to their sister. Why? Well, they just CAN, I guess. (I'll leave it at that).
They go to Nueba Yol. What CAN they do there? Well, there is a formal system for getting an ayuda. And it doesn't matter if you are purple or white or red, have been attending the right church, or if your brother's friend knows fulano! There are other guidelines, but with a couple of mentiritas, se resuelve todo.
On the bright side, this culture actually helps people who legitimately need help to go out and get it without shame and embarrassment. While there are abusers everywhere, they are also those who are too "proud" to use any form of government assistance, which seems inspiring but isn't always a good thing. Or perhaps it was not a part of their culture in their home country. They would think 'I just need to work/try harder', 'that's for poor people who really need it, not for me', or even 'that's for lazy people'. For good or bad, I doubt there are many Dominican-born immigrants in that crowd.
:cheeky: But a quick question...if someone makes $1,000/month and sends $500/month home to DR to build their house. Then they apply for Food Stamps which means that you CANNOT FEED YOURSELF OR YOUR KIDS, so they get approved for $250/month in Food Stamps so they are so happy because now they can send home $750/month for their house. After it's all said and done, shouldn't I and everyother taxpaying American own some of that house? I mean, we are paying for those Food Stamps under the impression that their kids were starving when actually they been stacking up dough in the DR to live the life of luxury in Retirement while us Americans, some of us paying so much in taxes that we can only put the minimum in our 401Ks or 401Bs or whatever...you think that that's fair? If you have money to build a house, they should have money to feed their kids, buy health insurance, and pay regular rent on their apartments.........Don't you think?:cheeky:
Still friendly, just a question
SHALENA
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Now, now, now,,,,,,,,,,if WE don't pay for the food stamps how will they be able to make their car note on a brand new Honda? Just the other day I saw a woman get $150 US worth of baby formula FREE with food stamp vouchers. She paraded out the store and jumped into her brand new Honda Accord......
my point was that many of us are NOT on public assistance and thats why you dont notice us and therefore those homes arent all subject to your claims. the gubmint doesnt give you that much, anyway. plus factor in the people who do qualify legally in every way as wage earners who do not have homes anywhere because they simply cant afford it.
yes, there are those who abuse and they shouldnt. they should be corrected in their skewed views. but dont think thats "everyone". or even most. MOST would most likely qualify for aid legally, no scams required, as low wage earners---a situation common to any new immigrant. and a great lot of others do not use any public assistance whatsoever. lets just keep that in perspective.
My, my my the bigotry (that does not exist BTW according to some posters) on this thread!
Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland
"1. Dominicans are on welfare because they are on "Dominican time" and therefore are unemployable."
Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
My original post raised the question if someone coming from a culture that may not put as much emphasis on punctuality as American employers might, could be adversely impacted by that difference in regards to employment.
Being aware of a difference is not the same as being intolerant of it.
If the topic of this thread had been, hypothetically, high unemployment among American youth, I may have questioned if having multiple facial piercings or tatoos in exposed areas, or the preference some youth have to speak "slang" could have an affect on how they are viewed by potential employers. I have nothing personal against any of these things, don't have any lower opinion of the people who chose to have them, but it is my belief that businesses have a tendency to give preference in hiring to people who conform to certain criteria. (Whether this is right or wrong is not my point.) But I suspect you are totally unaware that some youths have tatoos, piercings, and chose not to speak "business" English, because you are not a bigot and apparently don't notice these things.
If the topic had been difficulties the elderly face when trying to find a job, I may have raised the point that they may not be as comfortable with technology as younger people competing for the jobs, or that they may have more medical conditions that would cause them to be less reliable, or that a company may prefer to invest their training expenses in someone who typically would be a longer term employee. I am not intolerant of elderly people, I'll be one myself one day. But in the context of this type of discussion, it would generally be characteristics that could have a negative impact on employment that would be brought to light for discussion.
Maybe someday there will be a topic that will give me the appropriate opportunity to highlight all the positive characteristics, traits, and qualities of what I know of Dominicans, but the subject of this thread dictated the direction of this conversation.
Not living with my head in the sand does not make me a bigot, thinking that's the only way to live would.
Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland
"1. Dominicans are on welfare because they are on "Dominican time" and therefore are unemployable."
Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
My original post raised the question if someone coming from a culture that may not put as much emphasis on punctuality as American employers might, could be adversely impacted by that difference in regards to employment.
Being aware of a difference is not the same as being intolerant of it.
If the topic of this thread had been, hypothetically, high unemployment among American youth, I may have questioned if having multiple facial piercings or tatoos in exposed areas, or the preference some youth have to speak "slang" could have an affect on how they are viewed by potential employers. I have nothing personal against any of these things, don't have any lower opinion of the people who chose to have them, but it is my belief that businesses have a tendency to give preference in hiring to people who conform to certain criteria. (Whether this is right or wrong is not my point.) But I suspect you are totally unaware that some youths have tatoos, piercings, and chose not to speak "business" English, because you are not a bigot and apparently don't notice these things.
If the topic had been difficulties the elderly face when trying to find a job, I may have raised the point that they may not be as comfortable with technology as younger people competing for the jobs, or that they may have more medical conditions that would cause them to be less reliable, or that a company may prefer to invest their training expenses in someone who typically would be a longer term employee. I am not intolerant of elderly people, I'll be one myself one day. But in the context of this type of discussion, it would generally be characteristics that could have a negative impact on employment that would be brought to light for discussion.
Maybe someday there will be a topic that will give me the appropriate opportunity to highlight all the positive characteristics, traits, and qualities of what I know of Dominicans, but the subject of this thread dictated the direction of this conversation.
Not living with my head in the sand does not make me a bigot, thinking that's the only way to live would.
Actually the reform to welfare happened on late 90's, during the Clinton Administration.
Regarding the Food Stamps, I can't emphasize this enough, people are strongly encouraged to apply for it, tv, radio, magazines, so if some posters see that as something to be ashamed of, blame both the Republican and Democrat administration.
After waiting more than an hour and a half for her Dominican boyfriend, the young lady decided she had been stood up. She changed from her dinner dress into pajamas and slippers, fixed some popcorn and resigned herself to an evening of TV.
No sooner had she flopped down in front of the TV than her doorbell rang. There stood Pedro, her boyfriend.
He took one look at her and gasped, "I'm two hours late . . . and you're still not ready?
I would recommend that those Dominicans and others who are seriously interested in discussing this join Michele Wucker's discussion group on Yahoo... Dominican Group. That list is monitored by about 600 professionals and academics around the world. Ms Wucker, who wrote, Where the Cocks Fight, is a strong defender of immigrant rights in the States and head of the World Policy Forum. You will be able to converse there with the top academics in the Dominican Studies Department at the U of the City of NY. The list has been pretty quiet.... and certainly, from the caliber of this discussion, I think that you would (for the most part) be welcome.
I do note how odd it is to have this discussion .... and note how very similar the themes are vis a vis immigrants to the US and Haitian immigrants here.
I appreciate everyone's input... especially about the Food Stamps... which I really did not know were "advertised" in the Hispanic communities.
The issue of remesas is interesting as well... since the entire country is somewhat dependent on them. They are a major source of dollars for the DR.
I do often wonder though, how much the DR has lost with all the hard working immigrants that they have exported... and often think of how much these very people could have contributed to their own country's development.
Every time I see the line in front of the US Consulate... I want to scream at them.. "No -.- STAY HERE! You have a beautiful country... STAY and help make it better"
As for the brief comments about age discrimination.. As an elder myself, I wonder what is involved in this. In the States ..where such discrimination is illegal, certainly on the books..(You could not advertise a job for someone under thirty, for example), there is often posted "salary commensurate with experience".. so I wonder why it is that there are so many ads for the under thirty crowd and so few, evidently, for people with years of professional experience. In the States, it is very hard to get those first two years of work experience. Then... at perhaps 50 plus there is an issue of perhaps becoming too expensive for the market.
I do note how odd it is to have this discussion .... and note how very similar the themes are vis a vis immigrants to the US and Haitian immigrants here.
I appreciate everyone's input... especially about the Food Stamps... which I really did not know were "advertised" in the Hispanic communities.
The issue of remesas is interesting as well... since the entire country is somewhat dependent on them. They are a major source of dollars for the DR.
I do often wonder though, how much the DR has lost with all the hard working immigrants that they have exported... and often think of how much these very people could have contributed to their own country's development.
Every time I see the line in front of the US Consulate... I want to scream at them.. "No -.- STAY HERE! You have a beautiful country... STAY and help make it better"
As for the brief comments about age discrimination.. As an elder myself, I wonder what is involved in this. In the States ..where such discrimination is illegal, certainly on the books..(You could not advertise a job for someone under thirty, for example), there is often posted "salary commensurate with experience".. so I wonder why it is that there are so many ads for the under thirty crowd and so few, evidently, for people with years of professional experience. In the States, it is very hard to get those first two years of work experience. Then... at perhaps 50 plus there is an issue of perhaps becoming too expensive for the market.
Well actually, it goes deeper than that.
Sounded to me that you made the presumption that a Dominican would not have enough sense to show up for the interview on time, be too much of a slacker not to be punctual for his/her shift or lack the social intelligence or be so obtuse as to not be able to pick up on the more obvious American social custom/value that it is a no-no to pull that nonsense in America.
Sure, we all make value judgements when it comes to other cultural groups,, You were more than just being aware of the cultural differences, but posting "Dominican time" as being a possible cause for lack of unemployment opportunity is tantamount to intolerance and bigotry, not "awareness" :bored:no matter how much you want to sugar-coat it.
So, please let me stop you before you wear a sandwichboard declaring "I am no racist, some of my best friends are Dominican!"
If it quacks like a duck...
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Expecting newcomers not to beg is un-American, begging is a tradition deeply embedded in American culture, after all; what do we celebrate on Thanksgiving?, isn't it the first case of welfare on American soil?.
BRAVO, BRAVO, Vacara:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh
Like a heat seeking missile!! Que directa!!!!
Shaleena and Mountainannie,
I understand and accept your comments about the lack of humility since I did work in the field and saw it myself. On the other hand, as a Latina, I have also had the misfortune of landing in a maternity ward WITH PRIVATE INSURANCE and being treated as little more than una india con un taparabo. I can bore you with horror story after horror story of the things me and my relatives, friends have experience by the medical profession.
And God forbid you should not speak the language or have a thick accent!
One of you commented about your disdain concerning the Dominicana hiding the wage earning husband. Before you take the moral high ground, would you prefer that she become more financially dependent on the wage earner to eat? That she barter her body or that of her child's because although she works in menial job that might include getting the funk out of someone's toes in a pedicure? Is it better if she put up with domestic violence because she can not pay the rent without him and he takes full advantage of that fact and abuses her physically or otherwise? Should she get a second job and not be home for the kids to make sure they are not roaming the streets or being promiscuous?
Women, particularly poor ones, hold up half the sky. It is nobler and braver to get up in the morning and work your sh*% job for coolie wages to set the example for the kids than to be a professional who can afford $1K a month commuter expenses for the privilege of showing disdain to immigrants who are not appreciative.
I get what you are saying fully since it used to irritate the hell out of me too especially when I used to work thru my lunch hour because I had developed a reputation as someone who cared. I got a plenty of "Mire, (my name), adonde esta mi __(insert sought after benefit)____(said with a sardonic smile.) demands from them. So What? Big deal!!
I also get that if you look at the big picture the fact that some uneducated Dominicana is not being obsequious enough for your sensibilities is not that important in the general scheme of things. It truly isn't. Just be thankful that you have had the opportunity to know to behave better than her and use your good fortune to set the example, not distance yourself. Sometimes, it is just a defense mechanism or jealousy on their parts any way, but I strongly suspect that at their core, they might very well be proud that they see someone that looks like them holding a position such as yours.
Very interesting rant, SKing. "These people come over here and are here for years and don't even learn the language."
"These people think we owe them"
Reminds me of the things African-American in the U.S constantly say about Latinos in the US.
Pray tell, SKing and MAnnie? What are your thougths about the oppression of Latinos by African-Americans? Is your fight vs. discrimination specific to African-Americans being victimized by it or do you address African-American discriminating against other non-white immigrants as well.
How would you respond to my assertion that African-American racism against hispanics in NY is way, way, more pervasive and palpable than that of whites vs. Latinos in New York.
Please tell me, SKing, cause you are talking to a LATINA now, NY born and bred and one who knows the real deal here about how black Americans in this region perceive and treat other non-White minorities, particularly Latinos.
BTW, how are you being treated by "those people" in the DR while you "get your groove back" with your Dominican man?
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If I remember correctly, when I was looking for an affordable lease, Honda was offering some very reasonable promotional, end-of-year lease deals. Maybe that was my car since I have been known to lend my car out to friends in need, especially the ones that need to - God forbid- go to the market to buy food for the kids. For the record, the vouchers were definitely not mine though!!!!
Now I really know that you don't know me because people who know me know that MY GROOVE NEVER LEFT The country in which I live is beautiful and fun and I enjoy living here. Once you realize that the DR is run on who you know and how much you have, you find your place and you stay there. And never ever ever in your life confuse a Dominican with a Dominican-York, they are totally different. I was visiting DR every month for 2 years before I step foot in NYC and Washington Heights, I rented a room in Washington Heights for 4 months to use when I am in NYC working. I am now in Brooklyn, why???? Because those people are an embarrassment to their own country, even the Dominicans here say so. You should see the looks on decent Dominicans faces here when Dom-Yorks pull up in some rented SUV. Pleeeease. And if they hated so much being discriminated by blacks, why is it that I couldn't tell that they weren't black until they spoke that Spanish that they butcher so well, huh? Why is it that I heard more 50-cent and T.I. than I heard Antony Santos and Zacarias Ferreira? Pleeease. This is so funny to me. I get treated very well here, because I PAY for my services and I don't BEG, BORROW, or STEAL, thinking that this country owes me something. And as I have said in other posts, my MAN, if I were to dump him tomorrow or if he were to dump me, would STILL be something because he is someone of WORTH.
SHALENA
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