Dominican Republic as a model of economic success.

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
284
90
28
Austin, Texas
During some research on the DR, I came across this article (Oct. 2023) that I found interesting... It may have been presented in the DR1's News section (I didn't check), but I wanted to bring it up here to find out what some here think about the reasons for the DR's economic success. Reading many of the threads can give the sense that the DR has a mountain of negatives to overcome... And yet, here we have a successful Jamaican businessman looking to learn from the DR.

So, DR's economic success... The DR has been around for a long time... What has happened, and is happening, that is causing this boom to take place?

Here's the article...

 

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
284
90
28
Austin, Texas
The link you posted didn't work as intended.
Thanks for the heads up... I took the link from a forum and didn't check it... Here's a proper one taken from the Dominican Today website...

 
  • Like
Reactions: windeguy

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
During some research on the DR, I came across this article (Oct. 2023) that I found interesting... It may have been presented in the DR1's News section (I didn't check), but I wanted to bring it up here to find out what some here think about the reasons for the DR's economic success. Reading many of the threads can give the sense that the DR has a mountain of negatives to overcome... And yet, here we have a successful Jamaican businessman looking to learn from the DR.

So, DR's economic success... The DR has been around for a long time... What has happened, and is happening, that is causing this boom to take place?

Here's the article...

Often you will notice that schism. Many things that tends to be presented in the DR1 forums isn’t quite how they are presented elsewhere, but that isn’t limited to DR1. It’s quite common in various forums.

Jamaica was wealthier and more developed than the DR when it became independent in the 1960’s, but since then the DR has caught up to them and then kept going. That’s the main thing catching their interest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MoJoInDR

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
284
90
28
Austin, Texas
Often you will notice that schism. Many things that tends to be presented in the DR1 forums isn’t quite how they are presented elsewhere, but that isn’t limited to DR1. It’s quite common in various forums.

Jamaica was wealthier and more developed than the DR when it became independent in the 1960’s, but since then the DR has caught up to them and then kept going. That’s the main thing catching their interest.
Sure, forums of any type tend to be a microcosm of the communities they are related to; and perhaps DR1 represents a part of the DR expat community possibly weighted to the North American expat. But it also seems that many have been here for a few decades, during which this economic boom occurred... And, based on a few comments, some seem to have been, and maybe still are, successful business people.

The Caribbean is a bit of an enigma as an economic region. There's Barbados, an island many think is a part of the chain of Caribbean islands but is out in the Atlantic, well east of the chain of islands. It's done okay for itself economically speaking. Then there's Trinidad, an island that's made loads of money from oil reserves (although originally it was the refineries that made the money) and has never really gotten its act together. Trinis though will tell you "...We like it so...". Cuba is a beautiful island with all sorts of natural assets, but unfortunately, hampered by Castro's governance... Although many Cubans suffered in poverty before Castro came to power. There's Cayman, just chugging along on tourism and finance. And in the early '70s, the Jamaican dollar was valued higher than the US dollar... Something like 70c-80c Jamaica to $1US... But that came crashing down in less than five years after Manley came to power. And by the end of the '70s, the exchange rate was around $30-$40 Jamaican to $1US (if I remember correctly).

And now there's the Dominican Republic, going great guns.

What's the impetus behind it?

Here's an IMF report on the matter... It doesn't put a finger on any specific thing... But does point out...

"This remarkable performance can be attributed to several factors, including the implementation of sound policies, particularly by the central bank, improvements in policy framework, a more diversified export base, and the economy’s structural flexibility to changing global conditions."

And...

"Over the last half-century, the Dominican Republic has transformed, first from a primarily agricultural-based to a more manufacturing-oriented economy supported by the growth of free trade zones, and subsequently to a services-driven economy bolstered by the exploitation of the country’s tourism potential and the expansion of the financial system. Today, the country maintains a balanced mix of industries and sectors, including agriculture, manufacturing, and services, and boasts the sixth-highest per capita GDP in Latin America when accounting for purchasing power, surpassing regional giants like Brazil and Mexico. Such dynamism has played a crucial role in reducing poverty by two-thirds over the past three decades and reducing inequality, with the Gini coefficient falling by a quarter, indicating a continued positive trend towards a more equal distribution of income."

So sound governing policies... Product diversification... Flexibility to work within global conditions... And better wealth distribution... This is what the IMF is suggesting has been driving the boom.

Sounds like just plain ol' good sense being applied.

Here's the report...

 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
Overall yes, but there are some issues that have made Dominican progress less than it should be. Take salaries as an example. They are suppose to be higher than they are and a greater percentage goes to the rich than it should be. When you compare those things with other countries with similar development levels, the DR is always the worse. Even countries that are poorer than the DR in many cases actualky have higher salaries.

Some people don’t want to accept what is causing this because it relates to the Haitian illegal immigration, but that is the actual culprit. No other country with similar levels of development as the DR has an illegal immigration problem as large as the DR. Since the 1970’s , the DR has lost around 700,000 to 800,000 Dominicans that have emigrated to the USA alone, then add the several thousands that have emigrated elsewhere. The figure is either close or above 1 million. The rest were born abroad to these Dominicans, so while they have Dominican origin they aren’t immigrants.

If you look at Puerto Rico from the 1940’s, when Operation Bootstrap was initiated and is the main reason for the industrialization and turn Puerto Rico into a country full of slums and bad living conditions to what it’s now, they lost a large percentage of their population to emigration, modtly to New York City. That in combination with increase flows of foreign investments (mostly from the USA mainland) and development of certain sectors such as manufacturing, it help in accelerating the increase of salaries. Now, despite Puerto Rico is poorer thsn any state in the USA, average salaries are the highest than in any Latin American country, even Chile. The lost population of Puerto Rico wasn’t entirely replaced by the influx of Dominicans via illegal immigration.

What has happened to the DR is that a very large percentage of the population lost to emigration has actually been replaced by illegal immigrants from Haiti. Add to that that on average the Dominican emigrants tend to be better educated than the overall Dominican population while the Haitian illegal immigrants tend to also be less educated than the Dominican emigrants with better educated Haitians immigrants usually going to some other country instead of the DR. In essence you have a higher human resource being replaced by one that on average is lower. This has the added effect of retarding salary growth, particularly in the sectors where Haitian illegal immigrants tend to find a lot of work. This is very unlike what happened in Puerto Rico. You can actually see how it has impacted salary growth in all sectors at different rates, since productivity levels ghave actually continually increased since the 1970’s but salary levels haven’t kept up with the pace.

Most of the gsins of economic growth will go to the rich at least in the beginning, but what has happened in the DR is that more than the amount thst will normally go to the rich is actually going to the rich.

The growth the DR has seen in salaries depends more on the effect of time more than the effect of economic growth itself. While the average Dominican is better off than they were in the 1970’s, they aren’t at the level they are suppose to be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jaguar86

jaguar86

New member
Aug 4, 2013
4
8
3
Overall yes, but there are some issues that have made Dominican progress less than it should be. Take salaries as an example. They are suppose to be higher than they are and a greater percentage goes to the rich than it should be. When you compare those things with other countries with similar development levels, the DR is always the worse. Even countries that are poorer than the DR in many cases actualky have higher salaries.

Some people don’t want to accept what is causing this because it relates to the Haitian illegal immigration, but that is the actual culprit. No other country with similar levels of development as the DR has an illegal immigration problem as large as the DR. Since the 1970’s , the DR has lost around 700,000 to 800,000 Dominicans that have emigrated to the USA alone, then add the several thousands that have emigrated elsewhere. The figure is either close or above 1 million. The rest were born abroad to these Dominicans, so while they have Dominican origin they aren’t immigrants.

If you look at Puerto Rico from the 1940’s, when Operation Bootstrap was initiated and is the main reason for the industrialization and turn Puerto Rico into a country full of slums and bad living conditions to what it’s now, they lost a large percentage of their population to emigration, modtly to New York City. That in combination with increase flows of foreign investments (mostly from the USA mainland) and development of certain sectors such as manufacturing, it help in accelerating the increase of salaries. Now, despite Puerto Rico is poorer thsn any state in the USA, average salaries are the highest than in any Latin American country, even Chile. The lost population of Puerto Rico wasn’t entirely replaced by the influx of Dominicans via illegal immigration.

What has happened to the DR is that a very large percentage of the population lost to emigration has actually been replaced by illegal immigrants from Haiti. Add to that that on average the Dominican emigrants tend to be better educated than the overall Dominican population while the Haitian illegal immigrants tend to also be less educated than the Dominican emigrants with better educated Haitians immigrants usually going to some other country instead of the DR. In essence you have a higher human resource being replaced by one that on average is lower. This has the added effect of retarding salary growth, particularly in the sectors where Haitian illegal immigrants tend to find a lot of work. This is very unlike what happened in Puerto Rico. You can actually see how it has impacted salary growth in all sectors at different rates, since productivity levels ghave actually continually increased since the 1970’s but salary levels haven’t kept up with the pace.

Most of the gsins of economic growth will go to the rich at least in the beginning, but what has happened in the DR is that more than the amount thst will normally go to the rich is actually going to the rich.

The growth the DR has seen in salaries depends more on the effect of time more than the effect of economic growth itself. While the average Dominican is better off than they were in the 1970’s, they aren’t at the level they are suppose to be.

I agree. It is a vicious cycle. Companies don't invest in technology and automation because of their reliance on cheap illegal labor. Therefore they don't grow to the level they should and are not able to pay the competitive wages that a middle income country citizen needs.

Despite all that, there has been lots of growth. There is even a sizable middle class that we didn't have 30 years back. This new class is putting pressure on the politicians.
 

MoJoInDR

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
284
90
28
Austin, Texas
Overall yes, but there are some issues that have made Dominican progress less than it should be. Take salaries as an example. They are suppose to be higher than they are and a greater percentage goes to the rich than it should be. When you compare those things with other countries with similar development levels, the DR is always the worse. Even countries that are poorer than the DR in many cases actualky have higher salaries.

This seems to be true... But what does it say about the attitude of the government, business owners, and household employers disposition toward worker compensation, in the context of the value they place on the service being performed by these workers?

I've read many comments on DR1 that criticize the poor attitude toward providing service... Building homes for example... It seems that the customer just has to be patient and appreciate when workers show up... And given this type of worker attitude, why would anyone want to pay top dollar for work done?
Yet... The question comes up... Is this type of good customer service indifference found across the board... Such as in the tourism industry... Are tourism industry workers indifferent regarding the service they provide to their employers?

Some people don’t want to accept what is causing this because it relates to the Haitian illegal immigration, but that is the actual culprit. No other country with similar levels of development as the DR has an illegal immigration problem as large as the DR. Since the 1970’s , the DR has lost around 700,000 to 800,000 Dominicans that have emigrated to the USA alone, then add the several thousands that have emigrated elsewhere. The figure is either close or above 1 million. The rest were born abroad to these Dominicans, so while they have Dominican origin they aren’t immigrants.

I'm not so sure that's how I read it... DR employers seem perfectly happy to use Haitian workers — illegal or illegal in immigration status... Which would place the responsibility on the DR employers, not the Haitian workers... History has shown that the DR government has allowed it to take place, therefore making it a type of collaborator/partner and therefore bearing some responsibility as well.

If Haitians could not find work in the DR, what reason would they have to come to the DR for work?

Why can't Dominican employers simply say "...No..." to Haitian workers being employed?

Do Haitians come to the DR and put a gun to the heads of the employers to force them to employ them?

Of course not... Employers have a profit agenda for employing Haitians... And Haitians are just happy to be earning a wage, even if it is not a proper wage for the work they are doing.

In other words... Perhaps DR employers, and even the DR government, have taken advantage of Haitian workers... And done so to the detriment of Dominican workers, in context to proper (higher) wages being paid.

It's easy to point at Haitians... But we should always remember that three fingers are pointing back at the person doing the pointing.
If you look at Puerto Rico from the 1940’s, when Operation Bootstrap was initiated and is the main reason for the industrialization and turn Puerto Rico into a country full of slums and bad living conditions to what it’s now, they lost a large percentage of their population to emigration, modtly to New York City. That in combination with increase flows of foreign investments (mostly from the USA mainland) and development of certain sectors such as manufacturing, it help in accelerating the increase of salaries. Now, despite Puerto Rico is poorer thsn any state in the USA, average salaries are the highest than in any Latin American country, even Chile. The lost population of Puerto Rico wasn’t entirely replaced by the influx of Dominicans via illegal immigration.



Most of the gsins of economic growth will go to the rich at least in the beginning, but what has happened in the DR is that more than the amount thst will normally go to the rich is actually going to the rich.

The growth the DR has seen in salaries depends more on the effect of time more than the effect of economic growth itself. While the average Dominican is better off than they were in the 1970’s, they aren’t at the level they are suppose to be.

Thing is... As you pointed out... Despite "...average salaries [being] the highest than in any Latin American country, even Chile...", many Puerto Ricans still suffer in poverty... Why is this?

The GDP of Puerto Rico has been steadily increasing over the last thirty years and is expected to continue this way over the next ten years (a forecast of almost 20% brother).

And yet... Poverty level living for many is still a factor.

Why is that?
What has happened to the DR is that a very large percentage of the population lost to emigration has actually been replaced by illegal immigrants from Haiti. Add to that that on average the Dominican emigrants tend to be better educated than the overall Dominican population while the Haitian illegal immigrants tend to also be less educated than the Dominican emigrants with better educated Haitians immigrants usually going to some other country instead of the DR. In essence you have a higher human resource being replaced by one that on average is lower. This has the added effect of retarding salary growth, particularly in the sectors where Haitian illegal immigrants tend to find a lot of work. This is very unlike what happened in Puerto Rico. You can actually see how it has impacted salary growth in all sectors at different rates, since productivity levels ghave actually continually increased since the 1970’s but salary levels haven’t kept up with the pace.

Most of the gsins of economic growth will go to the rich at least in the beginning, but what has happened in the DR is that more than the amount thst will normally go to the rich is actually going to the rich.

The growth the DR has seen in salaries depends more on the effect of time more than the effect of economic growth itself. While the average Dominican is better off than they were in the 1970’s, they aren’t at the level they are suppose to be.

So you're suggesting that less educated illegal immigrant Haitians are to be blamed for "...retarding salary growth..." for the more educated Dominican citizen?

Could Dominican employers simply choose to not employ these less-educated illegal immigrant Haitians and just employ Dominicans... Albeit, at a higher salary?

Meaning... The Dominican employers would have to be satisfied with a slightly lower net profit... Or, charge their customers a higher price.

Why not just block out the employment of illegal immigrant Haitians and instead only employ Dominicans?

Or... If employing only Dominicans would be feasible because perhaps there are not enough Dominicans to do all the work... Just pay the illegal immigrant Haitians higher wages... The same higher wages that should be paid to Dominican workers.

Do you see my point?

Instead of saying to the Dominican worker, "Hey, I can higher illegal immigrant Haitians for less money, so if you want the job you'll have to do it at the same amount."... Just reverse it... Pay Dominicans a proper wage... And, if illegal immigrant Haitians are hired... Pay them the same wage.

That way, it's consistent across the board.

But we both know that's not how business is conducted by business owners... At least... Not in an environment in which they think they can get away with manipulating things for their own benefit/profit.

Puerto Rico has the same problem that all formerly colonized countries suffer from... The ingrained disposition of self-profit... The colonizers' attitude was to rape the colonized country for their gain (look no further than the British Crown Jewels and the Kph-i-noor diamond matter) and not really have any interest in what happened locally... Unfortunately, that attitude was passed on to those who became leaders after the colonizers left (or were forced out, as in Haiti's case)... And as the saying goes, the oil flows down from the head... Meaning, that the citizenry picks up the character traits (or lack thereof) of the leaders.

The rich will always want to get richer... That's just the way of fallen humanity and can be expected.

But at what cost?

In the stock market, whenever the upward curve begins to steepen... The cautious thought is to watch out, as an equally steep downward turn may just be right around the corner.

Perhaps Dominicans, and the world in general, need to pay a little more attention to the overall state of the human society we live in... And self-sacrifice a bit more, for the gain of a better overall living environment.

From my brief look at the DR... I'd like to think that the DR has a wonderfully unique opportunity to do just that.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
This seems to be true... But what does it say about the attitude of the government, business owners, and household employers disposition toward worker compensation, in the context of the value they place on the service being performed by these workers?
That’s irrelevant in defining the wage levels.

Violations towards compensation due to employees on the part of the employers is a greater issue when the employee is an illegal immigrant or in the informal sector. All formal employees, who are almost all Dominicans, are protected by a series of labor laws that basically force employers to provide all sorts of things such as a bonus during the Christmas season which is essentially an extra month (in December formal workers essentially are paid twice, what they earned while working plus the bonus.) There is also a liquidation amount to be given to each employee if the company let them go or they quit after an X amount of time and other things.

From the part of the employer, a single formal employee cost is his wages + the extra compensation that normally the employee doesn’t see in his paycheck, but the employer has to pay. Illegal immigrants don’t have any of that, ao employers save on that extra cost and the cost of the employee is just his wage.

I've read many comments on DR1 that criticize the poor attitude toward providing service... Building homes for example... It seems that the customer just has to be patient and appreciate when workers show up... And given this type of worker attitude, why would anyone want to pay top dollar for work done?
That’s also irrelevant.

DR employers seem perfectly happy to use Haitian workers — illegal or illegal in immigration status...
Sirena is one of the largest employers in the country and you will be hardpressed to find an illegal immigrant working in their stores. You will also be hardpressed to find illegal immigrants working in Dominican banks. In fact, outside of agriculture and to a certain extent construction, Dominicans are the majority of the employeed.

Which would place the responsibility on the DR employers, not the Haitian workers...
The reason the DR hardly has Chilean or Peruvian employees is because they don’t migrate much to the DR. You do find from time to time Venezuelans employees from the professions down to street vending and that is due to Venezuelans migratinv to the DR in relatively large numbers. The DR didn’t went to Venezuela and hire the Venezuelan employees, they went to the DR because it was their decision. To pretend it isn’t so is to not acknowledge reality.

In the Bahamas you will see many Haitians, but you hardly don’t see any Haitians in Jamaica. The main reason for this includes that Haitians choose not to immigrate much to Jamaica, but they do to the Bahamas.

History has shown that the DR government has allowed it to take place, therefore making it a type of collaborator/partner and therefore bearing some responsibility as well.
That and many other things. Simply look at Dominican highways like the Duarte. Most of the homes and businesses built along its edges on many stretches are illegal constructions. The same with parallel parking, there are laws that dictate parallel parking should only be done in the direction of the traffic in that road or on that side of the road. That means that on most roads with a two-way traffic, parallel parking should imply that the passenger door always faces the sidewalk.

If Haitians could not find work in the DR, what reason would they have to come to the DR for work?
There are other reasons too. For example, many feel unsafe in Port-au-Prince and opt to go to the DR instead of other areas of Haiti. Many pregnant women go to the DR to give birth since from their view everything is free and they are getting a service that doesn’t exist in Haiti. Where it all comes from, how much money it takes, etc isn’t something they think about. In the border region many Haitian families living in the Haitian side send their kids to public schools in the Dominican side. These are some examples of other reasons beyond working.

Why can't Dominican employers simply say "...No..." to Haitian workers being employed?

Do Haitians come to the DR and put a gun to the heads of the employers to force them to employ them?
There is the 80/20 law, it’s only a matter of applying it. Many Dominican companies such as Sirena, Jumbo, etc intentionally don’t violate that law. Others do, but enforcement should put an end to that.

The main culprit for that is the belief that their businesses doesn’t depends on the government for their success, so if they csn get away with something they will whether it’s not paying the taxes or highering illegal immigrants. However, in reality the government is on top of the businesses and not the other way around. The government is the one that create many incentives to promote the development of certain sectors. No business can supply or receive supplies/merchandise without the trucks driving on public roads and highways which are built and maintained by the government. Most exports of the DR go through the Haina Port, which is owned by the government. Etc. The idea that every successful business in the DR is due entirely to the efforts of the budiness owners and their employees is not quite reality. Even Puntacana, which did developed with not much government input, depended on the government to approve for them to operate an airport, which is one of their largest cash cows. Nowadays Puntacana benefits from the Coral Highway, a government built and owned highway, The same with the Boulevard.

On the north coast you can’t go from one town to another without using public roads. The airport that has sustained much of the tourism, though now not as active as before, is the Luperon Airport, built and owned by the government. The first major push for getting mass tourism to arrive in Puerto Plata is Playa Dorada, a complex built and owned by the Central Bank, itself owned by the government. The reason tourism even got its start on the north coast is because the government earmarked that area for tourism development and put in place several incentives to promote it.

To a large extent the same could be said with the Free Trade Zones and many other sectors.


Of course not... Employers have a profit agenda for employing Haitians... And Haitians are just happy to be earning a wage, even if it is not a proper wage for the work they are doing.

In other words... Perhaps DR employers, and even the DR government, have taken advantage of Haitian workers... And done so to the detriment of Dominican workers, in context to proper (higher) wages being paid.
What drives economic development is the desire to be rich. To not be satisfied with what you have and always want more. However, economic development almost always follows (not lead) the government because that’s the legitimate authority in a geographic area. If you become economically successful in creating a business in a particular place, first and foremost this was possible because the government let you. This is the same reason why many things are different in Cuba.

Thing is... As you pointed out... Despite "...average salaries [being] the highest than in any Latin American country, even Chile...", many Puerto Ricans still suffer in poverty... Why is this?
Poverty in Puerto Rico is measured differently than just about everywhere in Latin America. To put it another way, modt of Puerto Rico’s poor wouldn’t be considered poor in other Latin American countries and they wouldn’t had been condidered poor in say the Puerto Rico of 1940. Case in point, backthen most Puerto Ricans lived in wooden shacks with zinc roof and the bathroom tende to be letrines more often than not. Puerto Rican towns had slums with unpaved roads and kids running around in dirty or no clothes, and a bulging belly was common. These things either don’t exist or are not as common in the Puerto Rico of today.

The GDP of Puerto Rico has been steadily increasing over the last thirty years and is expected to continue this way over the next ten years (a forecast of almost 20% brother).
Puerto Rico has actually been in an economic crisis since about 2006. It’s in very recent times that it begsn to grow again and not by much. The slowing down of Puerto Rico’s economic growth is one of the reasons the gap with the DR has been decreasing at a faster rate. One of the most notable aspects is that among Puerto Rico’s business owners, particularly of the larger companies for the island, see the DR as of right now as a better place to do business than in Puerto Rico. The DR is set up in a way that a well thoughtout investment becomes profitable at a faster rate than in PR.

So you're suggesting that less educated illegal immigrant Haitians are to be blamed for "...retarding salary growth..." for the more educated Dominican citizen?
The presence of the excess is a major reason for the depressed wages of the DR. Productivity is considerably higher today than it was say in 199p0, but the gap between the productivity if the workers vs their pay is greater. This is more than in any other country with the kevel of development of the DR, but those countries don’t have a similar oroblem as the DR has with illegal immigration.

Could Dominican employers simply choose to not employ these less-educated illegal immigrant Haitians and just employ Dominicans... Albeit, at a higher salary?
Many Dominican employers do that.

Meaning... The Dominican employers would have to be satisfied with a slightly lower net profit... Or, charge their customers a higher price.
Most employees in the DR are Dominicans.

MoJoInDR said:
Or... If employing only Dominicans would be feasible because perhaps there are not enough Dominicans to do all the work...
You seem to not be aware that there are laws that allow a Dominican company to higher more foreigners than the 20% of employees if it can’t find Dominican workers. There is no need for illegal immigrants since they will be in the country legally with a work permit.

MoJoInDR said:
Just pay the illegal immigrant Haitians higher wages... The same higher wages that should be paid to Dominican workers.
As said before, that’s not how wages are defined.

Puerto Rico has the same problem that all formerly colonized countries suffer from...
Like Singapore? The United States? Australia? Barbados?

The ingrained disposition of self-profit...
That’s human nature. Has nothing to do with colonialism.

The rich will always want to get richer... That's just the way of fallen humanity and can be expected.

But at what cost?
There is nothing wrong with the rich getting richer. Economics isn’t a zero sum game. The rich will get richer regardless if there is illegal immigration or not. Previous people that were not rich will also become rich, many that were poor will move up to the middle class. Then there are those that go downward.

Perhaps Dominicans, and the world in general, need to pay a little more attention to the overall state of the human society we live in... And self-sacrifice a bit more, for the gain of a better overall living environment.

From my brief look at the DR... I'd like to think that the DR has a wonderfully unique opportunity to do just that.
There is nothing to be sacrificed. There are laws in place that are suppose to guarantee that most workers in every company are Dominican, that the foreigners are in order with their migration status and even laws meant to discourage illegal immigration and encourage immigrating via the legal route. It simply needs to be enforced.

But most employees in the DR are Dominicans and there are plenty of Dominican companies that don’t depend on illegal immigrants.
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,742
6,126
113
dr1.com
That’s irrelevant in defining the wage levels.

Violations towards compensation due to employees on the part of the employers is a greater issue when the employee is an illegal immigrant or in the informal sector. All formal employees, who are almost all Dominicans, are protected by a series of labor laws that basically force employers to provide all sorts of things such as a bonus during the Christmas season which is essentially an extra month (in December formal workers essentially are paid twice, what they earned while working plus the bonus.) There is also a liquidation amount to be given to each employee if the company let them go or they quit after an X amount of time and other things.

From the part of the employer, a single formal employee cost is his wages + the extra compensation that normally the employee doesn’t see in his paycheck, but the employer has to pay. Illegal immigrants don’t have any of that, ao employers save on that extra cost and the cost of the employee is just his wage.


That’s also irrelevant.


Sirena is one of the largest employers in the country and you will be hardpressed to find an illegal immigrant working in their stores. You will also be hardpressed to find illegal immigrants working in Dominican banks. In fact, outside of agriculture and to a certain extent construction, Dominicans are the majority of the employeed.


The reason the DR hardly has Chilean or Peruvian employees is because they don’t migrate much to the DR. You do find from time to time Venezuelans employees from the professions down to street vending and that is due to Venezuelans migratinv to the DR in relatively large numbers. The DR didn’t went to Venezuela and hire the Venezuelan employees, they went to the DR because it was their decision. To pretend it isn’t so is to not acknowledge reality.

In the Bahamas you will see many Haitians, but you hardly don’t see any Haitians in Jamaica. The main reason for this includes that Haitians choose not to immigrate much to Jamaica, but they do to the Bahamas.


That and many other things. Simply look at Dominican highways like the Duarte. Most of the homes and businesses built along its edges on many stretches are illegal constructions. The same with parallel parking, there are laws that dictate parallel parking should only be done in the direction of the traffic in that road or on that side of the road. That means that on most roads with a two-way traffic, parallel parking should imply that the passenger door always faces the sidewalk.


There are other reasons too. For example, many feel unsafe in Port-au-Prince and opt to go to the DR instead of other areas of Haiti. Many pregnant women go to the DR to give birth since from their view everything is free and they are getting a service that doesn’t exist in Haiti. Where it all comes from, how much money it takes, etc isn’t something they think about. In the border region many Haitian families living in the Haitian side send their kids to public schools in the Dominican side. These are some examples of other reasons beyond working.


There is the 80/20 law, it’s only a matter of applying it. Many Dominican companies such as Sirena, Jumbo, etc intentionally don’t violate that law. Others do, but enforcement should put an end to that.

The main culprit for that is the belief that their businesses doesn’t depends on the government for their success, so if they csn get away with something they will whether it’s not paying the taxes or highering illegal immigrants. However, in reality the government is on top of the businesses and not the other way around. The government is the one that create many incentives to promote the development of certain sectors. No business can supply or receive supplies/merchandise without the trucks driving on public roads and highways which are built and maintained by the government. Most exports of the DR go through the Haina Port, which is owned by the government. Etc. The idea that every successful business in the DR is due entirely to the efforts of the budiness owners and their employees is not quite reality. Even Puntacana, which did developed with not much government input, depended on the government to approve for them to operate an airport, which is one of their largest cash cows. Nowadays Puntacana benefits from the Coral Highway, a government built and owned highway, The same with the Boulevard.

On the north coast you can’t go from one town to another without using public roads. The airport that has sustained much of the tourism, though now not as active as before, is the Luperon Airport, built and owned by the government. The first major push for getting mass tourism to arrive in Puerto Plata is Playa Dorada, a complex built and owned by the Central Bank, itself owned by the government. The reason tourism even got its start on the north coast is because the government earmarked that area for tourism development and put in place several incentives to promote it.

To a large extent the same could be said with the Free Trade Zones and many other sectors.



What drives economic development is the desire to be rich. To not be satisfied with what you have and always want more. However, economic development almost always follows (not lead) the government because that’s the legitimate authority in a geographic area. If you become economically successful in creating a business in a particular place, first and foremost this was possible because the government let you. This is the same reason why many things are different in Cuba.


Poverty in Puerto Rico is measured differently than just about everywhere in Latin America. To put it another way, modt of Puerto Rico’s poor wouldn’t be considered poor in other Latin American countries and they wouldn’t had been condidered poor in say the Puerto Rico of 1940. Case in point, backthen most Puerto Ricans lived in wooden shacks with zinc roof and the bathroom tende to be letrines more often than not. Puerto Rican towns had slums with unpaved roads and kids running around in dirty or no clothes, and a bulging belly was common. These things either don’t exist or are not as common in the Puerto Rico of today.


Puerto Rico has actually been in an economic crisis since about 2006. It’s in very recent times that it begsn to grow again and not by much. The slowing down of Puerto Rico’s economic growth is one of the reasons the gap with the DR has been decreasing at a faster rate. One of the most notable aspects is that among Puerto Rico’s business owners, particularly of the larger companies for the island, see the DR as of right now as a better place to do business than in Puerto Rico. The DR is set up in a way that a well thoughtout investment becomes profitable at a faster rate than in PR.


The presence of the excess is a major reason for the depressed wages of the DR. Productivity is considerably higher today than it was say in 199p0, but the gap between the productivity if the workers vs their pay is greater. This is more than in any other country with the kevel of development of the DR, but those countries don’t have a similar oroblem as the DR has with illegal immigration.


Many Dominican employers do that.


Most employees in the DR are Dominicans.


You seem to not be aware that there are laws that allow a Dominican company to higher more foreigners than the 20% of employees if it can’t find Dominican workers. There is no need for illegal immigrants since they will be in the country legally with a work permit.


As said before, that’s not how wages are defined.


Like Singapore? The United States? Australia? Barbados?


That’s human nature. Has nothing to do with colonialism.


There is nothing wrong with the rich getting richer. Economics isn’t a zero sum game. The rich will get richer regardless if there is illegal immigration or not. Previous people that were not rich will also become rich, many that were poor will move up to the middle class. Then there are those that go downward.


There is nothing to be sacrificed. There are laws in place that are suppose to guarantee that most workers in every company are Dominican, that the foreigners are in order with their migration status and even laws meant to discourage illegal immigration and encourage immigrating via the legal route. It simply needs to be enforced.

But most employees in the DR are Dominicans and there are plenty of Dominican companies that don’t depend on illegal immigrants.
Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems you think the government is being generous by building public roads...etc. That is the governments money, that is taxpayers' money, and public infrastructure is one of the basic function governments are supposed to provide, with the people's money.
 

El Hijo de Manolo

It's outrageous, egregious, preposterous!
Dec 10, 2021
4,124
2,705
113
Dominican Republic
That’s irrelevant in defining the wage levels.

Violations towards compensation due to employees on the part of the employers is a greater issue when the employee is an illegal immigrant or in the informal sector. All formal employees, who are almost all Dominicans, are protected by a series of labor laws that basically force employers to provide all sorts of things such as a bonus during the Christmas season which is essentially an extra month (in December formal workers essentially are paid twice, what they earned while working plus the bonus.) There is also a liquidation amount to be given to each employee if the company let them go or they quit after an X amount of time and other things.

From the part of the employer, a single formal employee cost is his wages + the extra compensation that normally the employee doesn’t see in his paycheck, but the employer has to pay. Illegal immigrants don’t have any of that, ao employers save on that extra cost and the cost of the employee is just his wage.


That’s also irrelevant.


Sirena is one of the largest employers in the country and you will be hardpressed to find an illegal immigrant working in their stores. You will also be hardpressed to find illegal immigrants working in Dominican banks. In fact, outside of agriculture and to a certain extent construction, Dominicans are the majority of the employeed.


The reason the DR hardly has Chilean or Peruvian employees is because they don’t migrate much to the DR. You do find from time to time Venezuelans employees from the professions down to street vending and that is due to Venezuelans migratinv to the DR in relatively large numbers. The DR didn’t went to Venezuela and hire the Venezuelan employees, they went to the DR because it was their decision. To pretend it isn’t so is to not acknowledge reality.

In the Bahamas you will see many Haitians, but you hardly don’t see any Haitians in Jamaica. The main reason for this includes that Haitians choose not to immigrate much to Jamaica, but they do to the Bahamas.


That and many other things. Simply look at Dominican highways like the Duarte. Most of the homes and businesses built along its edges on many stretches are illegal constructions. The same with parallel parking, there are laws that dictate parallel parking should only be done in the direction of the traffic in that road or on that side of the road. That means that on most roads with a two-way traffic, parallel parking should imply that the passenger door always faces the sidewalk.


There are other reasons too. For example, many feel unsafe in Port-au-Prince and opt to go to the DR instead of other areas of Haiti. Many pregnant women go to the DR to give birth since from their view everything is free and they are getting a service that doesn’t exist in Haiti. Where it all comes from, how much money it takes, etc isn’t something they think about. In the border region many Haitian families living in the Haitian side send their kids to public schools in the Dominican side. These are some examples of other reasons beyond working.


There is the 80/20 law, it’s only a matter of applying it. Many Dominican companies such as Sirena, Jumbo, etc intentionally don’t violate that law. Others do, but enforcement should put an end to that.

The main culprit for that is the belief that their businesses doesn’t depends on the government for their success, so if they csn get away with something they will whether it’s not paying the taxes or highering illegal immigrants. However, in reality the government is on top of the businesses and not the other way around. The government is the one that create many incentives to promote the development of certain sectors. No business can supply or receive supplies/merchandise without the trucks driving on public roads and highways which are built and maintained by the government. Most exports of the DR go through the Haina Port, which is owned by the government. Etc. The idea that every successful business in the DR is due entirely to the efforts of the budiness owners and their employees is not quite reality. Even Puntacana, which did developed with not much government input, depended on the government to approve for them to operate an airport, which is one of their largest cash cows. Nowadays Puntacana benefits from the Coral Highway, a government built and owned highway, The same with the Boulevard.

On the north coast you can’t go from one town to another without using public roads. The airport that has sustained much of the tourism, though now not as active as before, is the Luperon Airport, built and owned by the government. The first major push for getting mass tourism to arrive in Puerto Plata is Playa Dorada, a complex built and owned by the Central Bank, itself owned by the government. The reason tourism even got its start on the north coast is because the government earmarked that area for tourism development and put in place several incentives to promote it.

To a large extent the same could be said with the Free Trade Zones and many other sectors.



What drives economic development is the desire to be rich. To not be satisfied with what you have and always want more. However, economic development almost always follows (not lead) the government because that’s the legitimate authority in a geographic area. If you become economically successful in creating a business in a particular place, first and foremost this was possible because the government let you. This is the same reason why many things are different in Cuba.


Poverty in Puerto Rico is measured differently than just about everywhere in Latin America. To put it another way, modt of Puerto Rico’s poor wouldn’t be considered poor in other Latin American countries and they wouldn’t had been condidered poor in say the Puerto Rico of 1940. Case in point, backthen most Puerto Ricans lived in wooden shacks with zinc roof and the bathroom tende to be letrines more often than not. Puerto Rican towns had slums with unpaved roads and kids running around in dirty or no clothes, and a bulging belly was common. These things either don’t exist or are not as common in the Puerto Rico of today.


Puerto Rico has actually been in an economic crisis since about 2006. It’s in very recent times that it begsn to grow again and not by much. The slowing down of Puerto Rico’s economic growth is one of the reasons the gap with the DR has been decreasing at a faster rate. One of the most notable aspects is that among Puerto Rico’s business owners, particularly of the larger companies for the island, see the DR as of right now as a better place to do business than in Puerto Rico. The DR is set up in a way that a well thoughtout investment becomes profitable at a faster rate than in PR.


The presence of the excess is a major reason for the depressed wages of the DR. Productivity is considerably higher today than it was say in 199p0, but the gap between the productivity if the workers vs their pay is greater. This is more than in any other country with the kevel of development of the DR, but those countries don’t have a similar oroblem as the DR has with illegal immigration.


Many Dominican employers do that.


Most employees in the DR are Dominicans.


You seem to not be aware that there are laws that allow a Dominican company to higher more foreigners than the 20% of employees if it can’t find Dominican workers. There is no need for illegal immigrants since they will be in the country legally with a work permit.


As said before, that’s not how wages are defined.


Like Singapore? The United States? Australia? Barbados?


That’s human nature. Has nothing to do with colonialism.


There is nothing wrong with the rich getting richer. Economics isn’t a zero sum game. The rich will get richer regardless if there is illegal immigration or not. Previous people that were not rich will also become rich, many that were poor will move up to the middle class. Then there are those that go downward.


There is nothing to be sacrificed. There are laws in place that are suppose to guarantee that most workers in every company are Dominican, that the foreigners are in order with their migration status and even laws meant to discourage illegal immigration and encourage immigrating via the legal route. It simply needs to be enforced.

But most employees in the DR are Dominicans and there are plenty of Dominican companies that don’t depend on illegal immigrants.
Are you using AI NALs? This post extends most human comprehension and exceeds the extremes of obsession.
 
  • Love
Reactions: NY-DR Commuter

cavok

Silver
Jun 16, 2014
9,739
4,195
113
Cabarete
The booming tourism industry is at the heart of the economic success of the DR. Without it, almost none of what you see would have ever happened.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aarhus and SKY

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,742
6,126
113
dr1.com
The booming tourism industry is at the heart of the economic success of the DR. Without it, almost none of what you see would have ever happened.
Tourism is important, but it isn't the only game in town. More than 10 million tourists visited the Dominican Republic in 2023, making it the most popular tourist destination in the Caribbean and putting it in the top 5 overall in the Americas. The industry accounts for 11.6% of the nation's GDP and is a particularly important source of revenue in coastal areas of the country.
 
Jan 9, 2004
10,948
2,294
113
Tourism is important, but it isn't the only game in town. More than 10 million tourists visited the Dominican Republic in 2023, making it the most popular tourist destination in the Caribbean and putting it in the top 5 overall in the Americas. The industry accounts for 11.6% of the nation's GDP and is a particularly important source of revenue in coastal areas of the country.
While it is not the only game in town...................it is the game most responsible for the economic success of the DR.

And while tourism appears to account for only a smaller percentage of gdp, it is the multiplier effect of those tourist dollars that give tourism a much larger role in the economic success of the DR.

Tourism is part of the services sector when measuring gdp. The multiplier effect from tourism also involves the hospitality industry (think hotel building, road and infrastructure just to name a few). Without tourism and its multiplier effects on the economy the DR would not have achieved anywhere near the prosperity it now enjoys. And the services sector which includes tourism constitutes a much higher percentage of gdp.

And to think three people with vision are really responsible for the incredible success of tourism in the DR and in particular the Punta Cana region.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems you think the government is being generous by building public roads...etc. That is the governments money, that is taxpayers' money, and public infrastructure is one of the basic function governments are supposed to provide, with the people's money.
There is no reason that obligates the government to build highways, pave roads, etc. All of that is more costly that simply keeping all roads as un paved trails as essentially they were in the DR until the the century. For about 400 years the country didn’t even had one single bridge.Until the Haina Port was built, the DR didn’t know what it was like to have a large port. Etc…There was not a single free trade zone before the government created the framework for that and most free trade zones today were created either entirely by the government or with public-private partnerships with the government. The support for its development was such that the land for the factories to be built in the free trade zone parks were often sold at very economical prices, even below msrket rates, and for many years the government endure free trade sone exports had a special exchange rate that help them have and edge.
 

bob saunders

Platinum
Jan 1, 2002
32,742
6,126
113
dr1.com
There is no reason that obligates the government to build highways, pave roads, etc. All of that is more costly that simply keeping all roads as un paved trails as essentially they were in the DR until the the century. For about 400 years the country didn’t even had one single bridge.Until the Haina Port was built, the DR didn’t know what it was like to have a large port. Etc…
Absolutely there is an obligation. What do you think are the obligations of any national government when they collect taxes of their citizens. In the past the government had neither the means or the revenue. Now they do.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
Absolutely there is an obligation. What do you think are the obligations of any national government when they collect taxes of their citizens. In the past the government had neither the means or the revenue. Now they do.
The politicians can always steal it all and never use the money for, in this case, creating and improving the roads. There is no obligation for why the government expanded the Duarte from the original two lane road (one in each direction) to four lanes and now six lanes. Before the Americans, there was no carretera Duarte as what existed was the camino Real de Santiago which was created by the Spanish in the 1500’s. It consisted of two lines of royal palm trees, one on each side, and that’s it. No bridges and whenever it rain it became unusuable due to the mud.
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
13,625
3,275
113
We obviously have different ideas on what constitutes an obligation. It only makes sense to improve infrastructure.
There is no reason to increase maintenance costs when you can keep it at the bare minimum and pocket the rest. Certsinly the camino real had a much less maintenance cost thsn what it will take to maintain the current Duarte Highway. Now the government is expanding the Jarabacoa-La Vega road. That’s not an obligation since it could had kept it as the original. Now Punta Cana is about 2 hours from Santo Domingo because the government built the highways, but it wasn’t obligated to do that.
 

aarhus

www.johnboyter.com
Jun 10, 2008
4,555
2,044
113
While it is not the only game in town...................it is the game most responsible for the economic success of the DR.

And while tourism appears to account for only a smaller percentage of gdp, it is the multiplier effect of those tourist dollars that give tourism a much larger role in the economic success of the DR.

Tourism is part of the services sector when measuring gdp. The multiplier effect from tourism also involves the hospitality industry (think hotel building, road and infrastructure just to name a few). Without tourism and its multiplier effects on the economy the DR would not have achieved anywhere near the prosperity it now enjoys. And the services sector which includes tourism constitutes a much higher percentage of gdp.

And to think three people with vision are really responsible for the incredible success of tourism in the DR and in particular the Punta Cana region.


Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
The tourism industry makes the difference for the DR being a middle income country instead of a poor country.