Dominican Students in NYC public schools

[Berzin]

For Dominican students in NYC, I would think that it would be more difficult due to the fact that students who have moved to the US from the DR often don't have a solid base upon which to build. I would also wonder about the motivation provided by the parents who may not believe in the importance of education.

These parents believe in the importance of education by paying disingenuous lip service to the concept, but there is a big difference between the abstract thought and the concrete action.

The worst thing about public school education is that it caters to the bottom feeders. Millions are spent on special education and services to move low-achieving children through the bureaucracy while talented and gifted children are expected to make due with what is offered to the many, which is woefully inadequate to challenge those who are brighter and harder-working than their so-called "peers".

 

[bob saunders]

Is there not challenge programs for children that are ahead of their peers? There were in all the schools and most of the classes my children were attended. This was true in the three different provinces they went to school in. My middle son was in challenge programs for both Math and English. It is pretty hard not to cater to the " average child". It is the below average child that slips through the cracks that ends up mugging you.

 

[La Profe_1]

These parents believe in the importance of education by paying disingenuous lip service to the concept, but there is a big difference between the abstract thought and the concrete action.

The worst thing about public school education is that it caters to the bottom feeders. Millions are spent on special education and services to move low-achieving children through the bureaucracy while talented and gifted children are expected to make due with what is offered to the many, which is woefully inadequate to challenge those who are brighter and harder-working than their so-called "peers".

From my personal experience, one of the worst things about public education is its propensity to behave like Procrustes. Students are individuals and the "one size fits all" mentality does them grave disservice.

Special education mandates call for individualized education plans (IEPs) while schools use boilerplate IEPs instead. Schools cannot address more than one learning issue at a time. If a child requires "special education" it follows as night follows day that that child must be "slow." This attitude is found among teachers as well. This attitude always infuriated me because my own child, while possessing an IQ that qualifies him for Mensa, had concomitant learning disabilities caused by an injury sustained in an accident when he was a newborn. I KNEW that special ed did not mean that a child was dumb or illiterate or unable to read.

The enrichment available for gifted and talented students was denied him (until I threatened a Title 1 lawsuit) because he was special ed and therefore not gifted in the opinion of the school district. We tried a special school for the gifted and talented, but his disabilities precluded success there.

The basic problem is that the only way that public education can work is by addressing the the needs of students who are one standard deviation above or below the mean. That represents 68% of the area under a bell curve. Two standard deviations represents 95% while students like my son at over three s.d. above the mean fall into the small group that represents 1% of the area of a bell curve.

The probability of receiving effective service for a need is inversely proportional to its rarity. Unfortunately, students who are "average" are often better served in a public school than those who are very bright or those who are severely handicapped precisely because those who are not "average" are fitted to the Procrustean bed.

 

[Berzin]

Is there not challenge programs for children that are ahead of their peers? There were in all the schools and most of the classes my children were attended. This was true in the three different provinces they went to school in.

Maybe in Canada, but not in the states. There are primary schools that do not have gifted programs, so the child must transfer to another school if he wants to get placed in such a program. Even if the school in question is in the same district, a principal can keep the child from transferring.

Here's how it works...

Let's say a child shows exceptional progress. This means their math and reading scores are way above average. Since principals are judged by these scores, they don't want that child to leave the school because it will drag the score averages down. So they tell the child and the parents for whatever reason the child has to stay in the school until they graduate from 5th grade unless the parents relocate to another district .

This is usually a tactic practiced on first generation Latino parents, who are usually not fluent in English and have a difficult time defending their child's best interests because they don't know how to navigate the system, and are unaware that such tactics can be challenged.

The reverse also happens. There was a case where a Honduran woman took her emotionally disturbed child to her district school, but was told that they did not offer services for her child, which of course was total bullshyte. The administrator sent the mother and child to another school because they did not want another academically low-achieving child who would more than likely test way below grade average, as is the case with most children placed in special ed. Again, this is an absolutely illegal practice and the administrator in question could have gotten fired and stripped of her NYS licenses, but what was the mother going to do? Nothing, and the administrator who pulled this off knew it.

It is pretty hard not to cater to the " average child". It is the below average child that slips through the cracks that ends up mugging you.

Mugging who? The large majority do not grow up to become criminals. Drains on society, yes. Underachievers? Absolutely.

But muggers? Stop spreading right-wing paranoia. You obviously have no statistics to back up this ridiculous claim.

 

[bob saunders]

Actually there have been plenty of studies about the correlation between crime and education. I'm not paranoid about anything.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j..._WnNIE&usg=AFQjCNFTsYQ2XndczD8dgJtkbSnXOBUeZQ

 

[Berzin]

Bob, I'm not talking about the correlation between education and crime. What I'm talking about is you making statements about a demographic you know nothing about and have no contact with unless you are using the google function to look up something you're already predisposed to believe, which is intellectually disingenuous as far as I'm concerned.

 

[deya]

I have visited the DR1 site off and on for years and have finally registered for email, etc. My reason for doing so was this thread. I am a product of the NYC education and immigrated to this country at the age of 12. I don't agree with the comments posted that most Dominican students come into the US at below grade level educations, although some are, and that their parents don't place their children's education at a the top of the list. Education is all that is crammed down our children's throat in a Dominican household no matter how much tigueraje is in that household. The difference is that the parents don't know(not educated themselves) and are afraid(illegals) of the US system and relies on it to guide their children. I do agree that the DR parents does not invest so much on their children's primary education, like Asians, because they believe that the school system is doing that already. Their primary concern is that their children make it to college. As you might know, in DR as long as you have a title you are somebody and no one can take it away from you. By the way, I attended high school during the eighties in the South Bronx, graduated early with a Merit Diploma, learned a third language, went to college got an accounting degree, went back for electrical engineering, became an entrepreneur and a Master Electrician and my story continues. Oh and yes there was major tigueraje in my home but my strong foundation of the importance of an education kept me focused.

 

[bob saunders]

Bob, I'm not talking about the correlation between education and crime. What I'm talking about is you making statements about a demographic you know nothing about and have no contact with unless you are using the google function to look up something you're already predisposed to believe, which is intellectually disingenuous as far as I'm concerned.

It is true that I am not in NYC, however many of my wife's students have attended school in NYC, and many former students are currently attending school in NYC. She is in regular contact with many of those students and their parents. I have a number of them that I also know and converse with. I do have some knowledge about the demographic and I have hardly said I was an expert. As a parent that has had hundreds of disadvantaged and immigrant children in my house as friends of the four children I've raised I have my own observations. I served for more than ten years as a director on an immigration settlement society where my main function was to help immigrants deal with government agencies, school officials, teachers, fill out income tax forms, apply for drivers licences, and a myriad of other duties - resume writing....etc. You asked for proof, I provided it. You of course are teaching some of those children so obviously know more about it than me, perhaps. I'm not sure you enjoy your job though. When most people provide a link to a study they would hardly provide the opposite to support their argument- did you read the article?

 

[Tom F.]

I am sorry if I implied most Dominican students come in below grade level. Most of the nieces and nephews who grew up in Washington Heights went to Catholic schools. Many of the higher functioning students go this route. I am a bit warped because I have worked in the not so good high schools. If there is too much tiguaraje in the home, many of these kids do not make it through school. I always find that the women are the ones who keep everything together.