DR-Cafta Strikes Again!

Sep 20, 2003
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At the risk of being crucified,here is a suggestion

If you're asking what can the DR do to try to save its economy, here is a suggestion. Do what Argentina, Peru, Brazil, Venezuela and other South American countries are doing, cut deals with Asia, the Middle East, and India.

As China and India rapidly industrialize, they are wrecking a lot,(HUGE tracts) of their agricultural land. They are building themselves into economic/industrial power houses,at the expense of their own farmers. They have lots of cash. And they need to feed 1 billion plus populations. If South American countries are successfully seeking out new markets in these countries, why can't the DR? China is ruining tremendous amounts of farm land for industrial uses, it's importing huge amounts of agricultural products now.

China and India need huge amounts of minerals to fuel there economies. The DR has some mineral deposits. It looks like the DR is already cutting deals in that area with the Chinese. Why not aggressively pursue deals in agriculture?

Resist free trade. Some countries in Latin America openly oppose it. Chavez in Venezuela is the loudest, but many other South American countries agree with him, to various degrees. (Whether they are as open about that is a different matter.) Perhaps the DR should fall in with the South American nations?

The DR can just drag its feet. I realize that the DR is fragile and that the US is leaning on a lot of countries to cave in, but, there are still ways around it. Just drag it out and make excuses. "Sorry President Bush, we are so disorganized here, we won't be able to meet the requirements to join the free trade zone." I don't think it would difficult to play that game with the mess the DR is in.

China is already looking around the DR for investments and mineral resources. Why not pursue agricultural deals as well?

Then there are the wealthy Gulf States. If Brazil can sell them food, so can the DR.

I realize this could cause problems with the US, but playing the free trade game with America will cause the DR tremendous problems as well.

Why not try to make the DR attractive to Chinese tourists?

I spent a couple of months in France this year, and Asian tourists were much more noticable than ever before. All the posh department stores offered Mandarin Chinese language guides/catalogs. The Museums I visited had Chinese language literature as well. Europe already recognizes that the Chinese monied classes are the next big thing in tourism. Perhaps the DR should seek out the Chinese tourist dollars as well?


America is a declining power. No doubt. I think it is in the DR best interests to look for new trade partners.

Or, we can just sign on with CAFTA and hope the DR doesn't end up going down the same road as Haiti's economy.
 

bob saunders

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HOWMAR said:
True, but why shouldn't the Dominican consumer benefit from the American subsidy to the American farmer. Should I as a Dominican consumer feel some sort of duty to support the Dominican farmer and pay higher prices? I'm sure most Dominican consumers would rather put their pesos to other use, rather than help keep the inefficient farmers in business.

Why not, it the same as "buy American" to keep people employed in your country. Everytime an American consumer buys their "made in China" product it undermines the American Economy. Almost every country in the world, especially the ist world countries subsidizes their farmers. Using your argument, the American consumer should buy whatever's the cheapest product(Chinese, ....etc) This is why there is such a huge trade imbalance, that people like to blame of NAFTA.
 

Chris

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joel pacheco said:
If you're asking what can the DR do to try to save its economy, here is a suggestion. Do what Argentina, Peru, Brazil, Venezuela and other South American countries are doing, cut deals with Asia, the Middle East, and India.

Treasonous suggestions joel. ;) You'll have the Americans on us like a ton of bricks and I'm trying real hard to keep the nationalities out of this.

The point is that there is opportunity in the US for Dominican products. It would be a little far across the ocean and pose great distribution challenges to send crops to Asia.

It would be easier of we can market to the US. The ideal scenario for me, would be if some US companies would visit here, or some DR companies would visit there, with a view to creating preferred supplier/customer relationships.

If the big guys can put a little elbow grease and social responsibility into it, and come and teach the Dominican companies how to do business with them, it would be a good thing. If this can be seen as a joint opportunity, it would be a great thing.
 

mondongo

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The DR cannot compete with the US, India, China...and most other countries that have an educated workforce.

The Playa Grande Complex is sold to Playa Grande Holdings....a group led mainly by foreignres.

The end result of DR-CAFTA and IMF indenture -- as presently constituted -- is the transfer of the only real asset the DR has: the DR itself.

It will happen slow over many years...but watch as Americans et al, and the DR politicians and connected elites ....by subterfuge and demagoguery usurp the land right from under your feet.

P.S. I can't help but chuckle at the "but it's only supply and demand" crowd. I wonder how much Colorado beach front property they own ;)
 

aegap

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Mondongo, Playa Grande was sold to mainly foreigners because foreigners were the ones mainly interested Much in the same way it was designed by a foreigner, mainly foreigners made it as famous as it is today and it appears only foreigner can give it the future it deserve.

As a Dominican, I thank those foreigners.
 

mondongo

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aegap, i'm curious why you think its good for foreign capilatists to own prime DR beach front property?
 

Noman

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and then we wonder why violence is on the rise...

just watch it keep on rising...and dont be surprise if political change comes knocking...and I dont mean different parties taking power...something like different ideologies...peace!!
 

RHM

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Chris said:
It would be easier of we can market to the US. The ideal scenario for me, would be if some US companies would visit here, or some DR companies would visit there, with a view to creating preferred supplier/customer relationships.

If the big guys can put a little elbow grease and social responsibility into it, and come and teach the Dominican companies how to do business with them, it would be a good thing. If this can be seen as a joint opportunity, it would be a great thing.

Good idea. And after that I want to see Jews and Muslims living in peace...dogs and cats embracing in the streets...and minute rice only take 30 seconds to cook! :) :)

Scandall
 

Chris

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Scandall said:
Good idea. And after that I want to see Jews and Muslims living in peace...dogs and cats embracing in the streets...and minute rice only take 30 seconds to cook! :) :)

Scandall

Yes, we can hope! but I'm real sceptical about the dogs and cats - that's pushing it! :classic:
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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mondongo said:
The DR cannot compete with India, China...and most other countries that have an educated workforce.
Ok,

Explain why the average Dominican is more productive than the average Indian or Chinese?

Indians produce US$3,100 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 59.5% (2003 est).

Chinese produce US$5,600 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 90.9% (2002 est).

Dominicans produce US$6,500 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 84.7% (2003 est).

Additionally, Indian productivity is growing by 6.2% (2004 est), Chinese productivity is growing by 9.1% (2004 est), and Dominican productivity is growing by 7% (2005 est).

-NAL
 
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RHM

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Nal0whs said:
Ok,

then explain why the average Dominican is more productive than the average Indian or Chinese?

-NAL

Ok, Nals. I'll leave the "productivity" argument to someone else. Then hopefully someone will point out the booming economies of India and China, their educated populations etc etc etc.

Maybe by some measure Dominican workers are more "productive" than theirs. Unfortunately it has not helped us.

Scandall
 

HOWMAR

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Nal0whs said:
Ok,

Explain why the average Dominican is more productive than the average Indian or Chinese?

Indians produce US$3,100 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis.

Chinese produce US$5,600 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis.

Dominicans produce US$6,500 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis.

-NAL
How ablout filling us in on the per capita salary. The Chinese produce 86% of the Dominicans, according to your numbers. But probably at 25% the labor cost.
 

RHM

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Nal0whs said:
Ok,

Explain why the average Dominican is more productive than the average Indian or Chinese?

Indians produce US$3,100 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 59.5% (2003 est).

Chinese produce US$5,600 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 90.9% (2002 est).

Dominicans produce US$6,500 (2004 est) worth of goods/services on a per capita basis with a literacy rate of 84.7% (2003 est).

Additionally, Indian productivity is growing by 6.2% (2004 est), Chinese productivity is growing by 9.1% (2004 est), and Dominican productivity is growing by 7% (2005 est).

-NAL

Nobody is better than you at cutting and pasting statistics. So what? DR workers no doubt can Merengue better than their Chinese and Indian counterparts too.

We still lag behind both of those countries. You sound like a politician.

Scandall
 

NALs

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HOWMAR said:
How ablout filling us in on the per capita salary. The Chinese produce 86% of the Dominicans, according to your numbers. But probably at 25% the labor cost.
My numbers are based on the Purchasing Power Parity of the per capita incomes of those countries, derived from their GDP.

Additionally, labor cost is not the only thing that give comparative advantage to one place over another.

-NAL

BTW, re-read my post. I have added some extra info.
 

NALs

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Scandall said:
Nobody is better than you at cutting and pasting statistics. So what? DR workers no doubt can Merengue better than their Chinese and Indian counterparts too.

We still lag behind both of those countries. You sound like a politician.

Scandall
Prove to me that we are behind those countries.

Please don't use arguments such as "they are this or that", but use proof to prove this notion to me.

If we are going to base things on notions, then Europeans are ahead of Americans, despite American productivity being much higher than most Europeans.

Sounds absurd, right?

-NAL
 

aegap

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Scandall, you have to recognize that India and China are lands of extremes. Their most poor are worst of off than ours.
 

RHM

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Nal0whs said:
Prove to me that we are behind those countries.

Please don't use arguments such as "they are this or that", but use proof to prove this notion to me.

If we are going to base things on notions, then Europeans are ahead of Americans, despite American productivity being much higher than most Europeans.

Sounds absurd, right?

-NAL

Does the first world (US/Europe) outsource to the DR or India and China? Why?

Does the first world import more from the DR or India and China? Why?

Who has had more economic expansion in the past few years? The DR or India and China?

If you disagree, fine. I don't have the energy or desire to argue something that is apparent.

Why don't you prove to all of us why the DR is competitive with india and China. It should be easy since you're so much smarter than the rest of us.

Are the workers where you live, in Connecticut, productive?

Scandall
 

aegap

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Scandall, you have to recognize that India and China are lands of extremes. Their most poor are worst of off than ours; In China, the Hatians are Chinese!!
Tens of millions live "illigally" in the major cities, within their own country!!
 

RHM

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aegap said:
Scandall, you have to recognize that India and China are lands of extremes. Their most poor are worst of off than ours.

I absolutely agree. Poverty in India is horrendous. But I still do not see the DR as an economic equal to India and China. They are both universally accepted as potential powerhouses.

Scandall
 

HOWMAR

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Nal0whs said:
Additionally, labor cost is not the only thing that give comparative advantage to one place over another.

-NAL
And what might those be.

Certainly not availability of workforce. India and China takes that by 1000X.

Certainly not availability of raw materials.

Certainly not education.

Transportation costs. The DRs only advantage, but that gets screwed up by crime in the ports.