jerryme said:
Ahhh, but Jerry - life is so much more interesting & friendly here. Truthfully, you ONLY get robbed if you don't know how to avoid getting yourself robbed!! - Grahame.
- Thread starter Riu
- Start date
DR economy coming back?
Ahhh, but Jerry - life is so much more interesting & friendly here. Truthfully, you ONLY get robbed if you don't know how to avoid getting yourself robbed!! - Grahame.
Escott said:
Scott what parts of the infrastructure are you talking about? I lived in CR for 5 years. I never even heard of an invertor. Power and water were never off. And the prices were reasonable. My monthly bill for both was around $20. Cable tv prices are around $30 per month. Cell phones as of one year ago only take 10 minutes or so to get a phone and a line.
Now if you want to talk about crime.....
Bad experience in Costa Rica?
Escott
So many of your post I see you condemning Costa Rica, did you have a bad trip there ONCE?
I have lived in Guynacaste, Limon, Alajuela,Cartago,San Jose, Puntarenas and various smaller towns, the infrastructure is so far superior to that of the DR it is a joke you say the opposite
The DR has many thing that may be of more interest than Costa Rica, but when you talk of infrastructure (Roads, education, electricity, potable water, health care) Costa Rica far surpasses that of the DR
A>
Escott said:
Escott
So many of your post I see you condemning Costa Rica, did you have a bad trip there ONCE?
I have lived in Guynacaste, Limon, Alajuela,Cartago,San Jose, Puntarenas and various smaller towns, the infrastructure is so far superior to that of the DR it is a joke you say the opposite
The DR has many thing that may be of more interest than Costa Rica, but when you talk of infrastructure (Roads, education, electricity, potable water, health care) Costa Rica far surpasses that of the DR
A>
gringo in dr said:
Although I may lead this off topic and certainly NOT to stain the DR in any way, as we certainly love the DR and all it's greatness, culture and diversity, and still plan to relocate to the there in the next year....
BUT, I happen to agree with you, Gringo in DR. CR not only has the aforementioned, as it's power is driven and supported by a totally redundant electrical grid (Island Wide) as well as the water being totally potable, the island is very diversified in it's offerings. Besides having been realized the only Latin American country with a STABLE government, and native respect for it's land and resources. Not to mention a strong and steady economy.
In as far as RE is concerned, CR has very strict property ownership rules and processes which would hardly allow for the incidents that affected many recently in the Sousa/Cabarete area. No Title problems at the registry here as far as I can see.
As far as ecologies go, CR, due to it's volcanic richness, provides many resources for export such as coffee and sugar and precious woods. CR also presently represents 5% of the earth's wildlife species on that one little island. There is also climate diversity, as in the DR, multi black, gold and white sand beaches abound, tropical rain forrests, white water rapids, turqouise waters, one of the best deep sea fishing spots in the world, not to mention top notch surfing, and I could well go on.
I might agree that roads may be a bit awkward to travel, but major highways are being constructed with major routes toward San Jose from East to West and North to South.
Well over 500 American companies have either HQs/and or offices in CR due to it's free trade arrangements with the US, as well as their dependable electrical, satelite, cable and telephone services.
And ready for this ~ you can still find beautiful property near the beaches in pre-construction developments @ less than US $20K an acre! (without having to worry if the titles to land you purchase are indeed, valid!)
Certainly an investment to hold as CR is ONLY going one way and that's up!
But as far as comparing the two as Scott mentioned, I would say that the DR represents that 1/3 infrastructure (in reverse). Much that all our appreciation levels will differ, I must say that CR gains credit in these avenues where due.
DR is better off regarding telecommunications
I've been to Costa Rica and it is a lovely country. But for my current project I have choosen the DR due to the fact that in CR I cannot get a decent Internet connection in our apartment. The telco in CR is a government company and it takes a loooong time to even get a phone. We have friends who run a larger hotel in Alajuela and they are still waiting for two additional phone lines - since 4 years! CR seems to have some laws that make it hard for foreign telcos to invest their. There is no Verizon taking over Codetel and offering the right stuff... And nobody locally who can do it either.
I've been to Costa Rica and it is a lovely country. But for my current project I have choosen the DR due to the fact that in CR I cannot get a decent Internet connection in our apartment. The telco in CR is a government company and it takes a loooong time to even get a phone. We have friends who run a larger hotel in Alajuela and they are still waiting for two additional phone lines - since 4 years! CR seems to have some laws that make it hard for foreign telcos to invest their. There is no Verizon taking over Codetel and offering the right stuff... And nobody locally who can do it either.
playing the money market
Is it realistic to think that non residents can actually buy/sell pesos and come out ahead. For instance, if the RD gets back to 40-50 and i invest 5000us,where and how do i keep it. Off shore? The Banks in RD dont seem to be particularily reliable, and if my monies are not immediately solvent there, then i really have no advantage in playing that "market". With the limits imposed on bringing foreign currencies back to the US...not that they have ever asked, I would be reluctant to buy that and carry it back. Suggestions?
And locofoto, is your name indicitave of your job?
Is it realistic to think that non residents can actually buy/sell pesos and come out ahead. For instance, if the RD gets back to 40-50 and i invest 5000us,where and how do i keep it. Off shore? The Banks in RD dont seem to be particularily reliable, and if my monies are not immediately solvent there, then i really have no advantage in playing that "market". With the limits imposed on bringing foreign currencies back to the US...not that they have ever asked, I would be reluctant to buy that and carry it back. Suggestions?
And locofoto, is your name indicitave of your job?
locofoto said:
Locofoto,
I'd venture to say that obtaining phone lines and stable Internet here in states can be just as grueling, depending on location, even with with all the telco companies available. Not so much as four years, but I have definitely had problems, especially in areas that are growing, whereby the RBOC's have yet to deploy resources and now find it hard to keep up the pace on supply/demand. This is my business. Here in the US, telcos are heavily regulated by the government as well.
As far as Verizon, by no means get the impression that Verizon services are now readily available in the DR...Verizon is merely the holding company for Codetel in the DR. It is still a Domincan company. They are currently mapping out deployment in the business and financial sectors, which will be far ahead of residential considerations. In time, with the influx of companies setting up call centers in the DR at a relatively rapid pace, due to cheaper labor costs and the introduciton of VOIP technology, the DR in turn will eventually open the ring as more and more telcos see opportunity in free trade zones. Don't expect this to happen overnight, however.
As in CR, I think what we are trying to state is that the infrastructure for services that DO exist are otherwise more dependable because of stiff regulated service level agreements. This is partly due to the demand of heavily weighted American companies hedging business in CR.
I will further investigate the 'law/laws' in which you mentioned, as I am curious myself as to the limitations CR places on exclusivity in this sector.
bcmike said:
don't even think about it. mugs have tried every which way to come out ahead with such schemes (be it dominican pesos or any other currency). for laymen like myself...and i presume, yourself......it is just not worth it.
i also presume you are speaking hypothetically, if so, hypothetically keep your us$5,000.
...forgot what this thread was originally about.
bochinche said:
Sorry bochinche...didn't mean to hijack to parts unknown. I'll do my best! :nervous:
Wow, I loved Costa Rica, the Ticas and the only thing about my last trip there was the woman I brought with me but that is another story. CR would be my second choice as a retirement country and it is one cool place with many things to do and see.Argo said:
You think the Roads far surpasses that of the DR? You need your head examined if you do. From San Jose to that little mountain with the Lava dripping out of it I thought I lost one kidney getting there. I am still looking for the SOB! I am not even talking about where half the road is simply missing and if you aren't paying attention you are simply dead. I am talking about the boulder road that goes on forever and you go bumpedy bump the whole way. From the Volcano to the Cloud Forrest the roads were the same. Boulder roads that go on forever and parts missing. Same for most of the trip to Manuel Antonio from the Cloud Forest.
The roads in the DR in their worse shape are so much finer than the roads in Costa Rica it isn't even a debate. There were very few paved roads and I drove for hundreds of miles. When I returned the rental car the guy looked at it and walked around it. Then he walked around it again. I said "whats up" and he said everyone has damage on the cars when they return it and I didn't. He then walked around it again!
How about Airports? DR has 6 international Airports and direct flights from NY, Florida, Europe, PR, S. America, Central America and even Cuba. I get off of the plane and 8 minutes later I am home at the beach. Try that act in CR and let me know how you fair. It takes 2 hard days of travel in and out of the places I liked in CR although I am sure there may be other places I would live in the Country but I liked Manuel Antonio and you cant fly in and out with the same ease of the DR.
As far as electric I always have it and same thing with water. I haven't had more than 1 hour in the last 6 months with out either. This is something you factor into living in the DR. I am too old to go to school and I am not concerned with education. My daughter goes to school in the US and will continue to.
Health Care? I am a paying customer and if I need something more than I can get in the DR which I doubt I will hop on a 1.5 hour flight to Miami or a 3.5 hour flight to NY for the best care in the world. I don't think I would be any more comfortable in CR than DR as far as doctors are concerned.
When I was in Manuel Antonio I priced some real estate and the prices were about three times to four times the prices on the north coast for less. I consider Costa Rica and Panama to be just like the DR. Different ecological systems and choice of mountains or beach and temperature. I don't consider Bahamas or Turks or Caymans to be remotely similar to either country so I threw CR into the mix.
So let me just break it down for you. The infrastructure in the DR fits my needs better than CR. I like the convienence of travel that I can't get in CR and have either bought with or considered to include when building everything I need for what the DR lacks in infrastructure. It is so cheap in the DR for me that I can afford to buy a 40kw Generator and run the bad boy. Wallah, no problems with electric or water, the roads are great considering the roads in CR, much greater Airport infrastructure in DR and I chose the DR because of these reasons.
How are my answers to your questions?
Scott
Edited to add:
You will have a very bad time getting your residency in CR if you can at all. There was a 1 to 2 year wait for a cellular phone there or so I was told. I can go on and on but bottom line is I liked CR but like the DR much more because I think there is more opportunity there and way less expensive to live.
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[hijack] If by Dominican you mean that the great majority of employees are Dominicans, then yes. But there isn't one local cent invested in Verizon/Codetel. It's always been a foreign company. [end hijack]timelessdreams said:
dr economy
The original post was about the DR economy and possibilities there in.That was my reason for the money question..if the economy improves, or at least the rate moves, then can I make money? It looks like the answer is no...or maybe minimal at best....
The original post was about the DR economy and possibilities there in.That was my reason for the money question..if the economy improves, or at least the rate moves, then can I make money? It looks like the answer is no...or maybe minimal at best....
Exactly. You can't afford to buy in St. Martin, Aruba or the Bahamas. Just what I was trying to say!jerryme said:
When they burned tires to protest it was certainly more peaceful than demonstrations I have seen in the US. I was honestly surprised all they did was burn a few stinkin tires with Hippo burning up the Dominicans Childrens future. Just goes to show you how peaceful the Dominicans actually are.
With all the talk about crime all I can say that happened to me is that I left my buddys truck unlocked (alanindr) and they robbed my 7 pesos and left my tape measure and my buddies spanish dictionary. Lots of others have more problems than I do but I feel very safe and comfortable in the DR and more so than I do in NY where I am at the moment.
We have security at night in the DR where I live but they help with taking up the groceries, returning my clean laundry and they also turn the Generator on and off so the hundred or so bux a month that we pay for this is well worth it.
Scott
Let me try & bring this back on topic - DR economy coming back & Real Estate prices.
Over the last 48 hours we have seen a tremendous number of Presidencial decrees which give the impression that THIS administration is going to make DECISIONS!! Some may be good for the country, others may be bad, but the general trend appears to be more slanted to the GOOD of the populace in my opinion! If this firmness continues until 2006, it is likely that more PLD Senators & Congress members will be elected at that time & a more normal Latino style democracy will be able to be exercised in 2006 by less Presidential decrees being issued & more 'democratic' laws being passed.
Do those who are responding to this topic feel that Presidetial decrees are the right way to proceed AND will they assist the recovery of the DR in the short & medium term? Would it be better to run the gauntlet of the PRD (note I said PRD faction not the PPH faction as I believe Hatuey de Camps is planning a return to heading up of the official PRD!!), & TRY to get things through Senate & Congress, or to continue in this more dictatorial style?
Re Real Estate prices let me state that outside of Sosua & Cabarete, prices of real estate are still very inexpensive. Some good deals can be made for those wanting to LIVE in their properties rather than use them as short/medium term investments. Note again, I did not state that one area was more suitable or better than another (so no need to jump all over me you Sosua crowd) just that prices here in PoP are more affordable to those on a lower budget.- or a BIG budget & want a bigger property!! Go further west than Cofresi & prices get even lower, as can also be said for going further east of Cabarete!!
Hope we can keep on track now & away from the advantages, price structure, infratstructure etc between CR & DR! - Grahame.
Over the last 48 hours we have seen a tremendous number of Presidencial decrees which give the impression that THIS administration is going to make DECISIONS!! Some may be good for the country, others may be bad, but the general trend appears to be more slanted to the GOOD of the populace in my opinion! If this firmness continues until 2006, it is likely that more PLD Senators & Congress members will be elected at that time & a more normal Latino style democracy will be able to be exercised in 2006 by less Presidential decrees being issued & more 'democratic' laws being passed.
Do those who are responding to this topic feel that Presidetial decrees are the right way to proceed AND will they assist the recovery of the DR in the short & medium term? Would it be better to run the gauntlet of the PRD (note I said PRD faction not the PPH faction as I believe Hatuey de Camps is planning a return to heading up of the official PRD!!), & TRY to get things through Senate & Congress, or to continue in this more dictatorial style?
Re Real Estate prices let me state that outside of Sosua & Cabarete, prices of real estate are still very inexpensive. Some good deals can be made for those wanting to LIVE in their properties rather than use them as short/medium term investments. Note again, I did not state that one area was more suitable or better than another (so no need to jump all over me you Sosua crowd) just that prices here in PoP are more affordable to those on a lower budget.- or a BIG budget & want a bigger property!! Go further west than Cofresi & prices get even lower, as can also be said for going further east of Cabarete!!
Hope we can keep on track now & away from the advantages, price structure, infratstructure etc between CR & DR! - Grahame.
making good use of the honeymoon period
No, in the long run ruling by Decree amounts to dictatorship but...
It is my opinion that Lionel is making good use of the honeymoon period and the only way to do so is by Decree, to implement the needed reversions and measures to put the DR on track again. For the future some stability and normalcy will return and so will democracy. It will start with the bills that are not debated and then after 2006 more and more legislation will go through the system.
Currently he is:
1) Cleaning up the system by reversing deicsions made by the Hippo and retiring a lot of superflous personel. Because of the delicate nature of this he can best do it by decree.
2) Bringing in his own people, it will remain to be seen how much of these he will bring in to replace Hippo's. Because of the delicate nature of this he can best do it by decree.
3) Buying cheap dollars to pay his outstanding bills.. dollars are bought cheap and sold expensive... can anyone say hoarding please.. this imo is a good thing.. Lionel should be in a position to cheaply settle his debts.
4) Investigating like hell to get all the skeletons out of the closet, he will probably paint a bleak picture (likely more bleak than he already knows to have some change; at least that's what I would do) and tell everybody to expect the worse and work hard to reverse the fortunes of the DR.
5) Negotiating with the IMF/EU to get more concessions and support, which he should rightly get for being voted in as a new president, he can and should renegotiate to get the best deal for the DR.
Voting in Lionel did not instantaneously solve all problems so for now and based on the information available to me (which is not much) I think that NahOwls view is still too optimisitic, given the insecure world economic outlook. DR and US are tightly linked and if the US catches a slight cold the DR catches pnuemonia.
DR should imo focus on export, infrastructure, education and political stability (cutting out dead wood amongst other things), try to get rid of most of its short term debts-payments (by long-term restructuring most likely, to free up money for policy) and it should basically evolve nicely. But 0% growth for this year and 4-5% increase in the next year would by my estimates be one year ahead. so next year stability 0% and 2006 maybe 4-5% increase in GDP, provided the US remains stable in its outlook.
Good luck and God's speed to Lionel!
No, in the long run ruling by Decree amounts to dictatorship but...
It is my opinion that Lionel is making good use of the honeymoon period and the only way to do so is by Decree, to implement the needed reversions and measures to put the DR on track again. For the future some stability and normalcy will return and so will democracy. It will start with the bills that are not debated and then after 2006 more and more legislation will go through the system.
Currently he is:
1) Cleaning up the system by reversing deicsions made by the Hippo and retiring a lot of superflous personel. Because of the delicate nature of this he can best do it by decree.
2) Bringing in his own people, it will remain to be seen how much of these he will bring in to replace Hippo's. Because of the delicate nature of this he can best do it by decree.
3) Buying cheap dollars to pay his outstanding bills.. dollars are bought cheap and sold expensive... can anyone say hoarding please.. this imo is a good thing.. Lionel should be in a position to cheaply settle his debts.
4) Investigating like hell to get all the skeletons out of the closet, he will probably paint a bleak picture (likely more bleak than he already knows to have some change; at least that's what I would do) and tell everybody to expect the worse and work hard to reverse the fortunes of the DR.
5) Negotiating with the IMF/EU to get more concessions and support, which he should rightly get for being voted in as a new president, he can and should renegotiate to get the best deal for the DR.
Voting in Lionel did not instantaneously solve all problems so for now and based on the information available to me (which is not much) I think that NahOwls view is still too optimisitic, given the insecure world economic outlook. DR and US are tightly linked and if the US catches a slight cold the DR catches pnuemonia.
DR should imo focus on export, infrastructure, education and political stability (cutting out dead wood amongst other things), try to get rid of most of its short term debts-payments (by long-term restructuring most likely, to free up money for policy) and it should basically evolve nicely. But 0% growth for this year and 4-5% increase in the next year would by my estimates be one year ahead. so next year stability 0% and 2006 maybe 4-5% increase in GDP, provided the US remains stable in its outlook.
Good luck and God's speed to Lionel!
timelessdreams said:
Your comments are nice and everything, but CR is not an island, its an ismus.
You mention several time or reffered to CR several times as an island.
In a recent article here on DR1 showing the levels of popularity Democracy was among Latin Americans, Costa Rica showed signs of discontent among the population for Democracy. This is incredible since CR has been a democracy for longer periods of time than most LA countries and yet, they are now the most discontent. The DR are more satisfied than CR, and I just wonder what's your opinion on that.
I'll see if I can find the article for reference.
MerengueDutchie said:
I am aware of the tightness between the US and DR in economic terms, but assuming a 0% growth by the end of this year might be more appropriate and 4-5% for next year than your suggestion of moving it all up one more year.
The reason lies in that the economy actually did better at the end of 2003 than predicted. The prediction was for a 2% decline and yet, it was barely a 1% decline that was registered officially, being a much smaller decline than the one registered at the end of 2002! That means, the DR economy was starting to turn around as 2003 came to a close!
Now that Hippo is out of the way and we have a much more business friendly government in place, now we can rest assure that the economy will begin an abrupt rebound in the last two quarters of this year, pushing economic growth to the point, that we will reach 0% by the end of December, alot better than last year.
Given the economy of scale that the DR is subjected to, it doesn't take much to make the economy grow as it does to make it shrink. We can only expect the economy to pick up its momentum to the tone of finishing next year with a 4-5% economic growth.
Although, its true what you say about the external factors that have the world economy on a shoestring (I did made a note on that in my post), one has to still hold out into the original predictions based on the fact that this hike in oil prices could possibly prove to be temporary. Also, we can make an assumption that the major economies of the world would put pressure on OPEC to increase their flow so the prices can ease up.
But, based from my sources and understanding of things I still believe that the prediction I borrowed from the IMF/World Bank confidential documents could very well prove to be true if the external factors that are affecting the world are dealt with swiftly.
Let's just wait until December to re-evaluate our statements based on what the official findings will be about the economic growth by the end of this year.
I supopse it all depends on whether you are optimistic (as all Domenicans should be imo) or cautious (as am I).. both argumentations imo sound reasonable, but it is my exp that IMF tend to present things in a positive light for political reasons (which they should do in order to get a positive start) rather than in a neutral way.
But let's wait until December and see what happens then.. it's difficult to project and I don't think there is reliable data available at the moment (that includes the so-called end of year 2003 numbers, imo they are political figures and not to be trusted for now) as to where we stand in terms of economic position. Representing the facts in an honest and unbiased way will be part of Lionels brief I'm sure..
Let's wait for what comes out of the 2004 EOY numbers..
Cheers,
MD
But let's wait until December and see what happens then.. it's difficult to project and I don't think there is reliable data available at the moment (that includes the so-called end of year 2003 numbers, imo they are political figures and not to be trusted for now) as to where we stand in terms of economic position. Representing the facts in an honest and unbiased way will be part of Lionels brief I'm sure..
Let's wait for what comes out of the 2004 EOY numbers..
Cheers,
MD