Former President Fernandez expresses concern over unchecked migration

[Dolores]

Three-term former President Leonel Fernandez said when interviewed by the El Despertador morning show on Channel 9 on 9 April 2024 that if Haitians born here were given Dominican nationality, by 2050 these would control the country.

Presidential candidate Leonel Fernández warned that if the Dominican Republic lets itself be carried away by international organizations and NGOs that seek for the country to allow more migration to mitigate the multidimensional crisis in Haiti, the country would cease to be Dominican in less than 30 years.

Fernández responded that “jus solis” does not apply in the Dominican Republic and, therefore it is not true that you become a Dominican by being born in the Dominican Republic. “If we accept, we are affecting the country,” said Fernandez.

Fernández pointed out that Law 168-13 resolved a problem that existed in...

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[Big]

most excellent point!

 

[drstock]

Imagine having lived all your life here, then being picked up and dumped in a country where you know nobody, don't speak the language and have no idea how to survive. That's the plight of many people of Haitian descent who have been born and brought up here.

 

[Big]

a country without a border or immigration laws loses its sovereignty and identity. There will always be people who want to skirt the law and live, enter and work illegally. The D.R does not want to lose its cultural identity. It also does not want to pay for its next-door neighbor's inability to govern themselves. Strong fences and walls make for great neighbors.

 

[bob saunders]

Imagine having lived all your life here, then being picked up and dumped in a country where you know nobody, don't speak the language and have no idea how to survive. That's the plight of many people of Haitian descent who have been born and brought up here.

Imagine not going through the proper processes to become a legal immigrant or citizen, instead of just winging it and hoping nobody notices or some kind of clemancy becomes available because of foreign non-citizens influence.

 

[drstock]

Imagine not going through the proper processes to become a legal immigrant or citizen, instead of just winging it and hoping nobody notices or some kind of clemancy becomes available because of foreign non-citizens influence.

True, but it is almost impossible for most Haitians born here to become legalised. The processes to do so are not available to them.

 

[Aguaita29]

Imagine having lived all your life here, then being picked up and dumped in a country where you know nobody, don't speak the language and have no idea how to survive. That's the plight of many people of Haitian descent who have been born and brought up here.

Ironically, the same rules would apply to someone born in Haiti from foreign parents. Haiti is actually more extreme in that sense. It's the same issue with countries where "jus sanguini" is used to transmit nationality.
I was once researching for a presentation and found out that, according to DW, at that moment, only 30 countries in the world give unconditional citizenship birth rights. 26 of those are in Latin America. https://www.dw.com/en/which-countries-grant-unconditional-birthright-citizenship/a-46102184

 

[Fulano2]

Good point. Have a look at the EU and GB.
Overloaded with foreigners of low level. It started about 40 years ago.
The last time I was in my place of birth Rotterdam, I hardly saw any white people, most Arabics.
I understand his preocupations.

 

[bob saunders]

True, but it is almost impossible for most Haitians born here to become legalised. The processes to do so are not available to them.

Really! when I was sworn in as a Dominican citizen there were at least half a dozen Haitians going through the same process, the same day. Several of my wife's childhood classmates were Hattians born in the DR. They have been Dominican citizens for many years. What methods were used I don't know. The process was available to Haitians born in the DR but if their parents were illegal then they aren't entitled to Dominican citizenship. They are entitled to Haitian citizenship.

 

[chico bill]

Imagine not going through the proper processes to become a legal immigrant or citizen, instead of just winging it and hoping nobody notices or some kind of clemancy becomes available because of foreign non-citizens influence.

What legal process is available to become an legal immigrant in DR for Haitians?
There is no functioning government in Haiti now.
I can't imagine the fear and hopelessness many Haitians must experience. They can't even renew their visas now.
They truly are worthy of asylum based on fear of persecution or abuse in their home country, if any people qualify.
Yes it is not advantageous for the DR to take more but certainly the countries of South and Central America could take many because they've lost so many of their citizens flooding into the US - a reverse replacement theory.

 

[NALs]

Quite frankly, Haiti’s problems are not for the DR to resolve.

For one things, the DR didn’t caused any of their problems. You can blame the Haitisns thrmselves, former colonial powers, whatever; the DR is never it.

The other is that even if the DR wanted to “fix” Haiti, it can’t.

The gap in development between the DR and Haiti which has been going on for several decades rewuires that Haiti to economically grow at 7% or more every year for the next 100 years just to equal the level the DR is today. That is assuming the DR freezes for a century to allow Haiti to catch up. Haiti is not growing at 7% or more and the DR will not freeze itself to wait for Haiti. It isn’t possible, but even if it was that means both the DR and Haiti would much greatly lag behind the rest of the world since the world will not freeze itself for a century itself. The gap between the DR and Haiti will only grow larger as time passes, in part because the DR will continue to move forward and in part because Haiti will continue to waste time, at sometimes a bigger waste than in others. It’s naive to think that a growing difference will not equate with a growing migration pressure from Haiti to the DR, taking into account that the one thing Haiti has been consistently growing year after year is the population size and basically all of that growth is due to natural increase vs immigration. In order to counteract the ever growing migration pressure, the DR needs to increase it push to contain that as much as possible so it doesn’t affect as much the DR.

Basically, the only real way to reduce or eliminate the ever growing gap between the DR and Haiti is by either halting the DR or even reverse what it has gained. That will happen not by the desire of the Haitians (though there is no question a few are lunatics focused on bringing down the DR instead of making Haiti rise up), but simply by the natural course of an ever growing gap between one side and another.

Then you have to take into account that it’s like this despite the DR is very unequal. Imagine what will happen once the DR becomes more equal. The differences will be much more glaring between one side and the other starting at the border. If anyone thinks Haitians will not be noticing this, they are dilusional.

With that said, Leonel Fernández is the last person that should be talking about the Haitian influence and its impacts in the DR. The largest influx of Haitians in the history of the DR happened during his governments. It was during his governments that border vigilance and control were at their weakest with things like the SD Metro security force getting more resources than those that guarded the border. Leonel Fernández should not be like Trujillo. Remember the interview done by CBS to Trujillo. Near the end it says “retirement… you hear I retire when I’m dead.” I kept his word.

 

[chico bill]

They won't seriously deport Haitians until the economy enters a serious recession and all this overbuilt construction boom stops.
Most Dominican men won't work like the Haitians

 

[drstock]

Really! when I was sworn in as a Dominican citizen there were at least half a dozen Haitians going through the same process, the same day. Several of my wife's childhood classmates were Hattians born in the DR. They have been Dominican citizens for many years. What methods were used I don't know. The process was available to Haitians born in the DR but if their parents were illegal then they aren't entitled to Dominican citizenship. They are entitled to Haitian citizenship.

Maybe that's the problem for those born here - maybe their parents were illegal. But it doesn't change the fact that if they are deported, they are dumped in a country where they don't know the language, don't know anyone and don't know how to survive there. Right or wrong, I have sympathy for people in that dire situation.

 

[bob saunders]

Maybe that's the problem for those born here - maybe their parents were illegal. But it doesn't change the fact that if they are deported, they are dumped in a country where they don't know the language, don't know anyone and don't know how to survive there. Right or wrong, I have sympathy for people in that dire situation.

Much of the historical immigration of Haitians can be blamed on the American owners of sugar cane plantations in the DR, as well as after April 1937, Cuba began the deportation of thousands of Haitians; this led to the arrival of unemployed Haitians en masse to the Dominican Republic. This was when the border farmers started complaining about cattle theft...etc which caused Trujillo to carry out the Parsley massacre. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

[NALs]

They won't seriously deport Haitians until the economy enters a serious recession and all this overbuilt construction boom stops.
Most Dominican men won't work like the Haitians

The DR is full of infrastructure built by Dominican workers. Take for example the Puerto Plata Airport, Playa Dorada, almost all the huildings, churches, etc in the old part of Puerto Plata, etc.

Yeup, Dominicans can’t work to make all of that. We’re left to wonder how the DR even existed without the Haitians! The country is full of evidence of this. Where there is not much evidence of this is in Haiti itself.

The only reason you are able to live in Sosúa is because of the Dominicans. If it was up to the Haitians, it would all be like Haiti and it’s very evident that isn’t OK with you. Otherwise, you would be living over there. No?

Pretty much the same applies to all expats with businesses in the DR. The Dominicans made it possible to be enough to your liking to live there, not the other side of the border.

 

[Manuel01]

Imagine having lived all your life here, then being picked up and dumped in a country where you know nobody, don't speak the language and have no idea how to survive. That's the plight of many people of Haitian descent who have been born and brought up here.

Not my problem. Enough with this woke BS. What you wanna do ? Take them all in ? Do it and in 10 years the DR looks like Haiti. And then people like you are the first to complain. If they want want condoms and dont have the $ to pay for them, give me a call. This is the only help i'm willing to give.

 

[CristoRey]

Not my problem. Enough with this woke BS. What you wanna do ? Take them all in ? Do it and in 10 years the DR looks like Haiti.

I don't know a single Dominican who would disagree with this statement.

 

[NALs]

Not my problem. Enough with this woke BS. What you wanna do ? Take them all in ? Do it and in 10 years the DR looks like Haiti. And then people like you are the first to complain. If they want want condoms and dont have the $ to pay for them, give me a call. This is the only help i'm willing to give.

Not just complain, but would be among the first ones out. Just look how Haiti itself was discarted as a place to live. As horrible that is the current situation in Haiti and a larger number of Haitians want to get out, there are Haitians that leaving is not an option not because they can’t leave (that’s a different case), but because they don’t want to. Barbecue et al will not dictate that to them.

 

[chico bill]

The DR is full of infrastructure built by Dominican workers. Take for example the Puerto Plata Airport, Playa Dorada, almost all the huildings, churches, etc in the old part of Puerto Plata, etc.

Yeup, Dominicans can’t work to make all of that. We’re left to wonder how the DR even existed without the Haitians! The country is full of evidence of this. Where there is not much evidence of this is in Haiti itself.

The only reason you are able to live in Sosúa is because of the Dominicans. If it was up to the Haitians, it would all be like Haiti and it’s very evident that isn’t OK with you. Otherwise, you would be living over there. No?

Pretty much the same applies to all expats with businesses in the DR. The Dominicans made it possible to be enough to your liking to live there, not the other side of the border.

Well I agree but times change and just like how American men used to work hard in the United States at labor jobs, now the Gen Z looks down on that type of work. They'd rather be on their cell phones just like here now.
So what once was is no longer how things are today.

 

[bob saunders]

Well I agree but times change and just like how American men used to work hard in the United States at labor jobs, now the Gen Z looks down on that type of work. They'd rather be on their cell phones just like here now.
So what once was is no longer how things are today.

There are still plenty of Dominicans working in construction, especially as carpenters, plumbers, tile layers...etc.