Thanks for the pictures, but Labadee is not the real Haiti. Labadee is owned by the cruise lines.
- Thread starter Chip
- Start date
Going to Haiti
Is there a border between Labadee and Haiti? No, Labadee is part of Haiti. And the other pictures are from Jacmel, only 1 1/2 hr drive from the capital.
Royal Caribbean lease a chunk of beach-front land near the village of Labadie. On non-cruise ship days anyone can go into the compound for a fee - 10US$ more or less. Access is denied on cruise ship days, I beleive.
There have been some interesting land ownership issues in the area as Papa Doc leased the land to Royal Caribbean's predecessors without actually consulting the original owners. Recently, telecoms companies have been acquiring sites for their antennas only to find that local landowners have original title deeds. The Cruise company still have a lease agreement with the government and the 2 sides are not at all happy with each other.
Dictators are not always renowned for dotting the i's and crossing the T's.
It turns out that when the ships arrive, the cruise company tell the passengers that they are arriving in the beautiful island of Hispaniola - true enough. They do not tell them they are in Haiti - after all they want them to leave the boat and spend some money.
The tourist are not allowed to leave the compound and explore Haiti at all- shame as there is some truly beautiful unspoiled coastline round there.
There have been some interesting land ownership issues in the area as Papa Doc leased the land to Royal Caribbean's predecessors without actually consulting the original owners. Recently, telecoms companies have been acquiring sites for their antennas only to find that local landowners have original title deeds. The Cruise company still have a lease agreement with the government and the 2 sides are not at all happy with each other.
Dictators are not always renowned for dotting the i's and crossing the T's.
It turns out that when the ships arrive, the cruise company tell the passengers that they are arriving in the beautiful island of Hispaniola - true enough. They do not tell them they are in Haiti - after all they want them to leave the boat and spend some money.
The tourist are not allowed to leave the compound and explore Haiti at all- shame as there is some truly beautiful unspoiled coastline round there.
I was once told that there was a time when Royal Caribbean used to tell its passengers that they arrived to their private "island" called Paradise Island.
Um, has anyone seeing the place via google earth? If not, go onto google earth and scan the north coast of Haiti until you see Labadie (or see the pictures in this post). You'll see Labadie with a Royal Caribbean cruiseship and all, but notice; Labadie is anything but a private island.
Ah, Haiti's name used to have such a bad connotation.
Even in the DR, the lingering fear among Dominicans trying to lure investors or even tourists, particularly American tourists, was the Haiti factor given that people would look at a map of Hispaniola and see Haiti on one end and that was the end of their possibilities of vacationing or investing in the DR.
Things have been changing, slowly.
Images of Haiti from Google Earth. I'm very good at finding places.
1. Here I zoomed in, at a 90 degree angle, to the border towns of Ouinaminthe, Haiti (I probably mispelled that town, lets call it Juana Mendez) on the left and Dajab?n, Dominican Rep. on the right.
2. The first true and largest desert on the island of Hispaniola. This is on the northwestern peninsula, near Gonaives. The saddest part, it was all man made.
3. Here is Labadie with a cruiseship and all. Hm, when a place looks nice from outer space, then it must be really really nice.
4. After months searching for this place on google earth, today was the day. Here is the famous Citadel of King Henri Christophe. Now I have to find the ruins of the Sans Souci Palace, which from my understand should be in the same area.
A few interesting things about Haiti that are clearly visible on Google Earth and which makes it interesting for the sake of comparing, is that Haitian cities appear remarkably smaller than their Dominican counterparts, with the exception of Port-au-Prince.
Another interesting aspect is that the only cities that show signs of rational development (namely street grids) tend to be the old colonial towns and even in these, its only the historic center. Beyond that, what you see is evidence of chaotic informal settlements, much like you see in the Dominican side. However, on the Dominican side, despite plenty of evidence of chaotic irrational development, there are many examples of rational development within the old areas as well as in many newer areas. In Haiti, and from what I can tell, only Port-au-Prince shows pockets of rational development in the sea of irrational development; but it pales in comparison to how much of Santo Domingo or even Santiago or most towns appear rational.
Also, the well-to-do neighborhoods are most extensive in the Port-au-Prince area, mainly on the Massif du Sud which are the mountains south of Port-au-Prince. On the Dominican side, not only is it visible that well-to-do areas are much more extensive, but they are also present in just about every town of medium size on up. The distinction between a well-to-do neighborhood and a one that is not is simply seeing a somewhat concentration of red roofs, which usually denotes upscale homes with tile roofs. The other way is looking for a cluster of homes with pools in their backyards.
There are many other interesting things that Google Earth reveal. Some nice and some not so nice of both countries.
-NALs
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Latest news about my trip - my client tells me that his cousin is the Port Au Prince police chief and that we will have police escort from the capital to the site and any time that we stay on site.
Now all we need to do is get from the DR border to Port Au Prince without problem....
Now all we need to do is get from the DR border to Port Au Prince without problem....
If you are travelling from Dajabon to Port au Prince you can simply drive to Cap Haitian then on down to Port au Prince. If time is precious then fly from Cap Haitian to Port au Prince with either Caribintair or Tortugair. It costs 80US$ one way and takes 40 mins. Driving from Cap to PaP takes around 7 hours and is quite a workout - for the car and the driver - although very spectacular.
From Dajabon (Ounaminthe) to Cap Haitian takes around 1 hour these days. When I first made the trip it took 4 hours. The road is now fixed.
The other option is to fly from Santo Domingo, (La Isabella, Higuero, Balaguer airport) to PaP with Caribair for around 310US$ return - takes 40 mins.
Or even on Caribe Tours S.D to PaP for a lot less - takes 6 around 7 hours.
The taxi fare from the PaP airport to Petionville is 30US$ - the same as the Taxi fare from S.D. to La Isabella, Higuero, Balaguer airport - (whatever it is called??)
Bloody expensive business if you ask me!
From Dajabon (Ounaminthe) to Cap Haitian takes around 1 hour these days. When I first made the trip it took 4 hours. The road is now fixed.
The other option is to fly from Santo Domingo, (La Isabella, Higuero, Balaguer airport) to PaP with Caribair for around 310US$ return - takes 40 mins.
Or even on Caribe Tours S.D to PaP for a lot less - takes 6 around 7 hours.
The taxi fare from the PaP airport to Petionville is 30US$ - the same as the Taxi fare from S.D. to La Isabella, Higuero, Balaguer airport - (whatever it is called??)
Bloody expensive business if you ask me!
I got back last week from Haiti and all went well. I didn't go with a police escort but two friends of mine, a Dominican and a Dominican/Haitian pastor. We entered Haiti via Dajabon and returned in Jimani. The road from Cap Haitienne to Port Au Prince was almost impassable.
As far as the security situation in Haiti, all I can say is we didn't see anything out of the ordinary other than a peaceful demonstration in the capital and we traveled at night on at least 4 different occasion with no problems in the interior and also from the west to the capital.
Haitians are every bit as friendly as Dominicans and I enjoyed my stay and the food - I even ate the salad wherever I found it.
The UN presence is noticeable and their effort in rebuilding the roads and infrastructure is commendable but in my opinion lacking. They have been in country long enough to have built the main north south hwy by now. Also, I see no apparent investment in providing trash service to the locals, and it is hard to understand how the locals can put up with so much trash everywhere. As this is a breeding ground for disease I can't understand why there appears to be little investment in this area. Where is S. Pierre and Sra Kennedy when you really need them?
The project that I hope to be involved with will be a 300 bedrooms hotel casino AI resort, the first of it's kind in the country, and there are plans to do more. Honestly, I don't know why someone hasn't done this before, as regardless of the precarious security situation in some places, AI's are relatively safe and completely self sufficient, ie as long as you can get the people to and from the resort safely there should be no problems. In the case of this particular resort, they will have helicopter and boat travel to and from the resort from the PAP (?) airport.
In summary, my trip went better than expected and look forward to my future (and hopefully frequent) trips to Haiti - next time by air only though. Also, I can only see good things for all of Quisqueya from Haiti progressing.
As far as the security situation in Haiti, all I can say is we didn't see anything out of the ordinary other than a peaceful demonstration in the capital and we traveled at night on at least 4 different occasion with no problems in the interior and also from the west to the capital.
Haitians are every bit as friendly as Dominicans and I enjoyed my stay and the food - I even ate the salad wherever I found it.
The UN presence is noticeable and their effort in rebuilding the roads and infrastructure is commendable but in my opinion lacking. They have been in country long enough to have built the main north south hwy by now. Also, I see no apparent investment in providing trash service to the locals, and it is hard to understand how the locals can put up with so much trash everywhere. As this is a breeding ground for disease I can't understand why there appears to be little investment in this area. Where is S. Pierre and Sra Kennedy when you really need them?
The project that I hope to be involved with will be a 300 bedrooms hotel casino AI resort, the first of it's kind in the country, and there are plans to do more. Honestly, I don't know why someone hasn't done this before, as regardless of the precarious security situation in some places, AI's are relatively safe and completely self sufficient, ie as long as you can get the people to and from the resort safely there should be no problems. In the case of this particular resort, they will have helicopter and boat travel to and from the resort from the PAP (?) airport.
In summary, my trip went better than expected and look forward to my future (and hopefully frequent) trips to Haiti - next time by air only though. Also, I can only see good things for all of Quisqueya from Haiti progressing.
Excellent trip report! Thanks for sharing! It's nice to hear it's not necessarily as bad as many Dominicans and others would like to have you think!
I am hoping to do some small trips there in the near future, but was a bit worried about the safety aspect as well.
I am hoping to do some small trips there in the near future, but was a bit worried about the safety aspect as well.
I hope you are not planning to make these tripas alone.
We went recently and its not something, as Chip stated, to be done with out the correct guidance/company.
Nice report trip, thanks for sharing.
I won't be going alone for sure, I am hoping to have a Haitian friend or 2 come along with us for assistance.
I'm thinking I shouldn't have many problems communicating anyways though, since I speak fluent English, French and Spanish, and I know and can understand some basic Creole.
I'm thinking I shouldn't have many problems communicating anyways though, since I speak fluent English, French and Spanish, and I know and can understand some basic Creole.
Pardon my curiosity but those who bribe aren't as corrupt as those who take the bribe?
Remember the quote: "Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." Robert A. Heinlein
Interesting question, Vacara.
If I get stopped by A Dominican police officer in a shakedown and he will either accept 100pesos right there and then or he will take me to the police station and discuss it further - am I corrupt if I decide to pay the 100 pesos and not deal with multiple officers at the jail? - more expensive and not a good outcome for me?
I think not - in this case I am a victim of corruption.
In the same way, when I try to do business in Haiti and Dominican Republic - if I go by the book and insist on absolutely no 'shortcuts' then I will do no work, generate no capital, not win contracts, not hire the staff etc etc... If this makes me the corrupt one - then so be it. I have been dragged down to the Dominican/Haitian level.
I agree that if I am paying corrupt officials then I too am involved, however, I think that the person receiving has a more dodgy ethic than the one paying. At least in all the petty corruption situations I have encountered.
If I were a businessman paying big bribes to win government contracts than, yes, I would be as guilty as the payee. Perhaps the party that tries to initiate the corruption is the one at fault.
Heck,I have seen budgets/cash-flows for projects that have explicitly set aside cash to "ease the flow of business".
What do you think?
Does the particular situation dictate the answer to your situation?
Interesting answer Pedro, it confirms my suspicion that you are not a corrupt person because your corruption is compulsory, born out of neccesity.
- Like the whore who prostitute herself because she has a child in need at home.
- or the drug dealer who sells drugs to supply his family.
- or the cop who stop you and take the money you generously offer him not because he is corrupt but rather cuz the meager salary he almost take home every month.
- or all the corrupt people who are in jail for doing something out of necessity.
You never corrupt people because of your greed, avarice and piggishness Pedro, but because your necessities are more important than those of the rest of us.
Thanks for replying to my question.
By your definition Jesus was corrupt too, for he said "give to caesar what is caesar's".
As most people never get to meet "caesar" they have to deal with those who represent "him", so it is up to the person representing "caesar" to do his job correctly and no blame falls on the public who interact with them.
Well Vacara my little trollish friend,
Firstly- I have zero tolerance on corruption.
I get asked every week for bribes or favours.
I also get offered them every week as the person who gives out the contracts.
I will not take a bribe.
This is my edge. If people know that you will not get involved in skulduggery, they treat you accordingly.
This is why I win contracts over lower cost quotes.
For me, not being corrupt is about 70% of my business plan.
It is working very nicely, thank you very much.
As for the other verbiage,
I do not whore myself.
I do not deal drugs.
I do not take bribes.
I have never been to jail. (Or even arrested Ever!)
Greed - possibly a little, though I have never been a money orientated person.
Avarice - I think you need to read a dictionary, dude.
Piggishness - Priggishness maybe. After all, I just wrote about what a saint I am.
I employ a lot of people and I have to bribe them to come to work every day. Corrupt buggers! I am going to stop that nonsense tomorrow morning first thing!!!
Anyway, I could bang on for a while longer but suffice to say that something new happens every today.
Today I have been accused of being corrupt (and compared to a whore, drug dealer, criminal, corrupt cop) by a Dominican. :bunny:
Anybody else feel free to wade in here........
Chip first of all I wish you luck on your adventure in Haiti, hope you get the contract and stay safe, we need your input here in DR1.
Second; if either you or Pedro think you need to bribe your way out of every jam in the complicated web of Dominican bureaucracy I'm not the one to complain, can't hardly do so since I'm not in your shoes. My beef is with either you or Pedro coming here and stating "Dominicans are this or that" because they take your bribes.
If you are going to label a Dominican as : venal, bribable, debauched, double-dealer, fast and loose, fixed, foul, fraudulent, gone to the dogs, iniquitous, knavish, mercenary, sordid, on the take, padded, perfidious, praetorian, profiteer, racket up, reprobate, rotten, shady, snide, suborned, tainted, treacherous, two-faced, underhanded, unethical, unprincipled, unscrupulous, untrustworthy, venal, wide open, avaricious, corrupt, covetous, grabby, grasping, miserly, money-grubbing, selfish, nefarious, unethical, unprincipled, unscrupulous, crooked................... etc because they take your bribes at least be honest and admit that half of those labels belong to you and Pedro.
Thanks for pitching in Chip and not letting Pedro do all the lifting.
Pedro; I read your post and your Trollish line gave me a good laugh. Thanks again for being son honest about your dishonesty.
I seem to have had a profound effect on you Vacara.
I take that as a great compliment.
The biggest fool on the board has the most severe adverse reaction to me.
I must be doing something right.
And I see you took my advice about reading the dictionary.
But please, everything in moderation, my dear boy.
And where is your class sunshine?
You look like an idiot - again.
But, seriously, do you think the embedded corruption in The Dominican Republic is likely to decline interfrastically?
I take that as a great compliment.
The biggest fool on the board has the most severe adverse reaction to me.
I must be doing something right.
And I see you took my advice about reading the dictionary.
But please, everything in moderation, my dear boy.
And where is your class sunshine?
You look like an idiot - again.
But, seriously, do you think the embedded corruption in The Dominican Republic is likely to decline interfrastically?
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