- Thread starter pi2
- Start date
Good News - Greener aircraft will sooon serve the DR.
Other posters have little understanding of either micro or macro economics.
Micro economics - if I have a product produced at cost x per unit and sell y units now at price z per unit.
I become more efficient and produce at ( x - 10%) e.g new aircraft etc. etc.
If I pass on all the saving to the customer retaining the same profit and my sell price is z - ( x times 10%);
If there is zero elasticity of demand , e.g. I still sell y units and still make te same profit. I make more profit if the demand curve is positive around that price point really I sell more units , more profit with passing on the full saving to the customer. Depending on the curves if I sell for the old price I make even more profit e.g. ( x times 10% times volume y ) or I may make less than maximum potential profit if volume were to increase rapidly on a consumer price reduction. Making maximum profit it is possible to repay investments to improvements more rapidly increasing the value of the enterprise.
On the macro level being an innovator or at least second enables the enerprise to attact more government support etc. for further profitable innovations such as the rail case before.
In these cases large enterpises such as KLM-AF, BA- Iberia - BMI are well placed to return reasonable profits, returning some benefits to the consumer, some the share holders, some the commnity and some employees in the form of stable work contracts etc. With a global spread in the case a down turn in one market it is often possible to divert resources to others still earning good ROI.
pi2
Micro economics - if I have a product produced at cost x per unit and sell y units now at price z per unit.
I become more efficient and produce at ( x - 10%) e.g new aircraft etc. etc.
If I pass on all the saving to the customer retaining the same profit and my sell price is z - ( x times 10%);
If there is zero elasticity of demand , e.g. I still sell y units and still make te same profit. I make more profit if the demand curve is positive around that price point really I sell more units , more profit with passing on the full saving to the customer. Depending on the curves if I sell for the old price I make even more profit e.g. ( x times 10% times volume y ) or I may make less than maximum potential profit if volume were to increase rapidly on a consumer price reduction. Making maximum profit it is possible to repay investments to improvements more rapidly increasing the value of the enterprise.
On the macro level being an innovator or at least second enables the enerprise to attact more government support etc. for further profitable innovations such as the rail case before.
In these cases large enterpises such as KLM-AF, BA- Iberia - BMI are well placed to return reasonable profits, returning some benefits to the consumer, some the share holders, some the commnity and some employees in the form of stable work contracts etc. With a global spread in the case a down turn in one market it is often possible to divert resources to others still earning good ROI.
pi2
Oldest fleets in the World in the US - apart from Cubana air and possibly some Nigerian airlines!
Not very green!
pi2
Ryan Air produced for less, sold for less, sold many more units and profit has been increasing steadily year upon year.
2009
Our traffic grew by 14% to 66.5m passengers as our average fare was reduced to just €35. We took delivery of a further 51 new aircraft as our fleet rose to 232 Boeing 737-800. We opened 8 new bases in Bari, Brindisi, Faro, Leeds Bradford, Oslo Rygge, Pescara, Porto and Trapani as we grew to 41 bases and over 940 routes. while traffic growth continues during a global recession which saw many of our competitors announce losses or cutbacks, and even more go bankrupt. Finally we launched our very popular Cabin Crew Charity Calendar (2010) wich raises over €100,000 which was donated to the “When You Wish Upon a Star” Charity in the UK.Passengers: 66,503,999
People (y/e): 7,245
2010
Our traffic grew by 8% to 72.1m passengers with our average fare at just €39 and no fuel surcharges, despite a sharp increase in fuel costs. We took delivery of a further 40 new aircraft as our fleet rose to 272 Boeing 737-800. We opened 8 new bases in Barcelona El Prat, Gran Canaria, Kaunas, Lanzarote, Malta, Seville, Tenerife and Valencia as we grew to 44 bases and over 1,300 routes. Our profits rose 26% to over €401m despite higher oil prices, the global recession, and volcanic ash disruptions in the spring. Finally we launched our World famous Cabin Crew Charity Calendar (2011) which raised over €100,000 for the German charity “Tafel”.
Passengers: 73,553,580
People (y/e): 8,896
About Us
| [h=3]Example of cutting costs and prices and growing profit with efficiency in the airline industry.[/h]A lesson in economics for the other posters. pi2 <!-- Start of Side Content -->[h=2][/h][h=2][/h] |
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Ryanair works on a high volume/no frills platform. That model has been tried and has failed in North America over much longer distances than short haul flights like London to Marbella.
You love to mix apples into your orange debate.
After almost 20 years in the antitrust field, I think think I know of what I speak...but trying to debate anything with you is really just a waste of time.
Moving on...
Ella
You love to mix apples into your orange debate.
After almost 20 years in the antitrust field, I think think I know of what I speak...but trying to debate anything with you is really just a waste of time.
Moving on...
Ella
I thought pretty much all airlines in the US are no frills.
If Ryanair has a monopoly o so many routes and is so huge how come antitrust has not broken it up.
Ryanair has lots of medium haul routes. Miami SD is about the same as many Ryanair routes.
Ditto KLM-AF is large and BA-Iberia-BM also.
Really goverments play games with antitrust and most of the time it is in their interests to have very large stable concerns as indeed Fredie Laker found out.
Governments are committed to reducing GHG and one way is to encourage consolidations and efficiency in the airline industry. It also provides for jobs for the countries plane and engine makers as big organisations can order many new fuel efficient planes.
I guess people who belive in antitrust are in a poor third place to other more important concens yet they continue to waste time.
A good hike in co2 tax and fuel taxes would further encourage consolidation and efficiency.
Actually anyone on the supervisory board of companies such as Lufthansa, this includes a broard spectrum of people, can demand answers on topics ranging from fare increases on routes to the ordering of new equipment, working conditions etc.
LH is no 5 of Worlds airlines. It has been growing rapidy with minimum intravention by antitrust people.
US has a number of old inefficient fleets that are holding back progress on global warming.
pi2
If Ryanair has a monopoly o so many routes and is so huge how come antitrust has not broken it up.
Ryanair has lots of medium haul routes. Miami SD is about the same as many Ryanair routes.
Ditto KLM-AF is large and BA-Iberia-BM also.
Really goverments play games with antitrust and most of the time it is in their interests to have very large stable concerns as indeed Fredie Laker found out.
Governments are committed to reducing GHG and one way is to encourage consolidations and efficiency in the airline industry. It also provides for jobs for the countries plane and engine makers as big organisations can order many new fuel efficient planes.
I guess people who belive in antitrust are in a poor third place to other more important concens yet they continue to waste time.
A good hike in co2 tax and fuel taxes would further encourage consolidation and efficiency.
Actually anyone on the supervisory board of companies such as Lufthansa, this includes a broard spectrum of people, can demand answers on topics ranging from fare increases on routes to the ordering of new equipment, working conditions etc.
LH is no 5 of Worlds airlines. It has been growing rapidy with minimum intravention by antitrust people.
US has a number of old inefficient fleets that are holding back progress on global warming.
pi2
Hope that mergers such as UAL and CA result in a greener fleet and the old aircraft at the likes of AA are retired real quck.
VA, JB and Spirit have ordered the A320neo. AA I think has 280 options but who knows? Any guesses?
Co2 tax is becoming a reality in Europe.
pi2.
VA, JB and Spirit have ordered the A320neo. AA I think has 280 options but who knows? Any guesses?
Co2 tax is becoming a reality in Europe.
pi2.
LOL... but then I lose the entertainment value.... must just learn to not engage...
In the recent merger between Austrian and Lufthansa the antitrust people imposed a stupid antigreen condition. It was I believe commented on the time as such. They demanded that the joint company gave up certain slots to enable competition between pairs of cities.
It is not green to have aircraft from different companies taking off and landing within a short period of each other and congesting the skies over the same route.
When I was working in atc analysis I saw the effect of such stupidity. Delays are more likely, routes vary with more fuel cost etc.
It is greener to have one larger aircraft run buy one company.
The same condition of stupid competition over short routes as used to happen between London and Glasow (400 miles ). BA and BMI uses to compete but someone saw sense - its a BA only route now.
Its like two train operators running trains over the same track.
If the route is put out to tender every 5 years so be it.
Bigger aircraft are more green in general and higher load factors are achievabe most times with a single operator.
If its a route with many flights a day a flight or two can be cancelled to increase load factor.
pi2
It is not green to have aircraft from different companies taking off and landing within a short period of each other and congesting the skies over the same route.
When I was working in atc analysis I saw the effect of such stupidity. Delays are more likely, routes vary with more fuel cost etc.
It is greener to have one larger aircraft run buy one company.
The same condition of stupid competition over short routes as used to happen between London and Glasow (400 miles ). BA and BMI uses to compete but someone saw sense - its a BA only route now.
Its like two train operators running trains over the same track.
If the route is put out to tender every 5 years so be it.
Bigger aircraft are more green in general and higher load factors are achievabe most times with a single operator.
If its a route with many flights a day a flight or two can be cancelled to increase load factor.
pi2
but Ryanair doesn't have any large aircraft as you speak of, they have Boeing 737's, for their fleet, incapable for long hauls, and no carrier uses large load aircraft for small hops.........puff puff puff, don't forget to pass
here are two issues:
1.
IF AA was operating up to date A320neo jets to the DR fuel saving would be 25% over its present aged fleet. Lack of regulation etc. have allowed it to put off investing.
2.
The world is full of stupid anti trust lawyers unfortunately. Transport over trunk
routes is a natural monopoly where big efficient equipment, good organisation etc. pays
dividends for owners, consumers and the public at large.
Players such as Ryanair have shown the advantage of a monopoly over the lesser routes
they have chosen, utilizing efficient equipment, demandng fast turn around at airports
and engineering optimum equipment utilisation.
No stupid anti-trust lawyer would dream of breaking up monopoly holder Eurostar operating
over trunk routes london paris, london - brussels. With over 70% of traffic and fares
starting at 50 dollars.
Eurostar Speeds to Profit and Eurotunnel Introduces Mobile Phone & Wi-Fi Under the Channel! | Rail.co.uk
Or would they dream of breaking the near monopoly of French Railways of travel between
say Paris and Marseilles - 500 miles.
A very few large aircraft on NY-London, NY - LA etc. provided by monopoly operators could
both make for a greener planet and reduce delays etc. It would also save fuel and capital
cost write off for the countless other aircraft affected by delays caused by this non-
rational organisation of air travel.
Glasow - London ( 400 miles ) used to a competitive route. Now it is better served by a
BA monopoly. with benefits to the environment customers etc. et al.
So is a greener planet on the agenda? If so sack anti trust and appoint anti pollution
boards to oversee mergers etc.
pie2
1.
IF AA was operating up to date A320neo jets to the DR fuel saving would be 25% over its present aged fleet. Lack of regulation etc. have allowed it to put off investing.
2.
The world is full of stupid anti trust lawyers unfortunately. Transport over trunk
routes is a natural monopoly where big efficient equipment, good organisation etc. pays
dividends for owners, consumers and the public at large.
Players such as Ryanair have shown the advantage of a monopoly over the lesser routes
they have chosen, utilizing efficient equipment, demandng fast turn around at airports
and engineering optimum equipment utilisation.
No stupid anti-trust lawyer would dream of breaking up monopoly holder Eurostar operating
over trunk routes london paris, london - brussels. With over 70% of traffic and fares
starting at 50 dollars.
Eurostar Speeds to Profit and Eurotunnel Introduces Mobile Phone & Wi-Fi Under the Channel! | Rail.co.uk
Or would they dream of breaking the near monopoly of French Railways of travel between
say Paris and Marseilles - 500 miles.
A very few large aircraft on NY-London, NY - LA etc. provided by monopoly operators could
both make for a greener planet and reduce delays etc. It would also save fuel and capital
cost write off for the countless other aircraft affected by delays caused by this non-
rational organisation of air travel.
Glasow - London ( 400 miles ) used to a competitive route. Now it is better served by a
BA monopoly. with benefits to the environment customers etc. et al.
So is a greener planet on the agenda? If so sack anti trust and appoint anti pollution
boards to oversee mergers etc.
pie2