Grounded Outlets: Too Much to Expect in the DR?

[ROLLOUT]

If you do drive a copper rod into the ground, it is pretty much useless if the impedance (resistance) to the earth is higher that 10 ohms. You will encounter this problem in areas with rocky or clay soil. One solution can be to irrigate the area where the grounding rod is placed to lower the impedance.
I recall many years ago in the UK, we had a radio transmission site with a high ground potential. As it was on a sheep pasture,we got permission of the owner to build a corral, where we would periodcally herd the sheep into. Their urine saturated the earth to the extent that it lowered the impedance to an acceptable level.

 

[dv8]

First off I truly doubt the owner would spend what it would take to actually get the electrical wiring in tip top shape. One thing to do it right on a new installation and a completely different animal to rip it out and do it over.

and you never know what further surprises may lay ahead... when we bought our house it had really poorly done floor, lots of hollow spaces under tiles. few years later we had money to change it. when we broke the kitchen floor it turned out that it was originally lower than the rest of the house and only had patches of cement holding the tiles. there was also open, ripped apart electrical outlet under the floor, with a snake nest of cables and wires. extra money needed to be spent on more cement to even floor level and then some more to sort out electricity issues.

 

[wuarhat]

Don't jumper ground to neutral wires!

As far as I'm aware there is no code for electrical installations and no such thing as a licensed electrician, well I've never heard of one or seen one.

When houses are built they go to the hardware store and buy the wire that they have regardless of color. If you're lucky they will have at least used different color wires on each circuit to distinguish between live, neutral and ground.

Many properties are supplied with 220v which consist of two 110v phases and a neutral which is in fact grounded at the street transformer.

If your outlets do not have three wires, but are only connected to live and neutral, you could be in for a real world of pain if you want to thread through an additional wire through each conduit.

My advice would be to use a jumper wire at the outlet and connect the neutral to the ground connector. Then run a copper rod into the ground and connect it to the neutral point at your distribution box. Not a very orthodox approach, but at least you can ensure that your neutral will not float above ground potential minimizing the risk of shocks if you touch an appliance. And secondly, a decent surge protector will work as it will now sense a ground line.

This is a NO-NO. The theory behind the grounding system is to connect all the conductive surfaces of appliances directly to ground, independent of the neutral system, which also goes directly to ground also (more on this later). The reason being if, which often happens, a hot wire on the device comes loose and touches a conductive surface of the device, rather than remaining hot and waiting for a human to complete the path to ground, the ground wire will complete the path to ground and cause a current draw sufficient (more than 15 amps) to trip the circuit breaker and de-energize the circuit. If you connect the ground and the neutral anywhere else in the system other than at the bus bar in the main box, the breaker will still trip when a hot wire touches a grounded surface. However, the breaker only trips when its current limit is reached, and these are always at least 15 amps, which is a little less than 1000 times the .016 amps it takes to kill a human. The problem is that while properly installed ground wires will always be at 0 volts and will never be carrying current other than the millisecond or two that it takes the breaker to trip, the neutral wires are expected to be carrying current, and can easily be at half a volt or more, whenever there is an energized device on the circuit. If the ground and neutral of a circuit are comingled anywhere other than at the bus bar in the main box then the conductive surfaces of the refrigerator, microwave, and any other device on that circuit with a ground prong on its plug can be at that same voltage, and the conditions under which a half a volt can kill you are common. This will be more dangerous than being completely ungrounded, since the conductive surfaces of devices with grounding cords will be energized on a daily basis.

 

[GringoRubio]

This is a NO-NO. The theory behind the grounding system is to connect all the conductive surfaces of appliances directly to ground, independent of the neutral system, which also goes directly to ground also (more on this later). The reason being if, which often happens, a hot wire on the device comes loose and touches a conductive surface of the device, rather than remaining hot and waiting for a human to complete the path to ground, the ground wire will complete the path to ground and cause a current draw sufficient (more than 15 amps) to trip the circuit breaker and de-energize the circuit. If you connect the ground and the neutral anywhere else in the system other than at the bus bar in the main box, the breaker will still trip when a hot wire touches a grounded surface. However, the breaker only trips when its current limit is reached, and these are always at least 15 amps, which is a little less than 1000 times the .016 amps it takes to kill a human. The problem is that while properly installed ground wires will always be at 0 volts and will never be carrying current other than the millisecond or two that it takes the breaker to trip, the neutral wires are expected to be carrying current, and can easily be at half a volt or more, whenever there is an energized device on the circuit. If the ground and neutral of a circuit are comingled anywhere other than at the bus bar in the main box then the conductive surfaces of the refrigerator, microwave, and any other device on that circuit with a ground prong on its plug can be at that same voltage, and the conditions under which a half a volt can kill you are common. This will be more dangerous than being completely ungrounded, since the conductive surfaces of devices with grounding cords will be energized on a daily basis.

Tongue in cheek: maybe this is why Dominicans always wear chanclas.

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

You have to assume that there are several people who are in charge of the various electrical utilities that are North American educated engineers. I can appreciate the amount of time and money that is needed to train and test would be front-line electrical workers. However, I cannot understand why the power companies do not supply a grounding connection for every new hookup going forward. 

Sure it doesn't do much to alleviate the safety issue for homes built before the change but it would greatly improve the safety of every house connected to the grid after such a change. Older buildings can be addressed one at a time during renovations. The utility could slowly but steadily retrofit their older distribution equipment with a common ground when they do repairs or when a new house is built in a neighborhood making it possible for other owners to retrofit their property to get properly grounded.

A path to ground is such a fundamental electrical safety concept in a distribution system, the utilities and therefore the Govt. have to know that what they have not done in the past and continue to not do today results in the deaths of their customers and their employees. This just irks me to no end. Shameful. No sense of responsibility or culpability. They need to be sued out of existence - at least in my dream world.

 

[beeza]

This is a NO-NO. The theory behind the grounding system is to connect all the conductive surfaces of appliances directly to ground, independent of the neutral system, which also goes directly to ground also (more on this later). The reason being if, which often happens, a hot wire on the device comes loose and touches a conductive surface of the device, rather than remaining hot and waiting for a human to complete the path to ground, the ground wire will complete the path to ground and cause a current draw sufficient (more than 15 amps) to trip the circuit breaker and de-energize the circuit. If you connect the ground and the neutral anywhere else in the system other than at the bus bar in the main box, the breaker will still trip when a hot wire touches a grounded surface. However, the breaker only trips when its current limit is reached, and these are always at least 15 amps, which is a little less than 1000 times the .016 amps it takes to kill a human. The problem is that while properly installed ground wires will always be at 0 volts and will never be carrying current other than the millisecond or two that it takes the breaker to trip, the neutral wires are expected to be carrying current, and can easily be at half a volt or more, whenever there is an energized device on the circuit. If the ground and neutral of a circuit are comingled anywhere other than at the bus bar in the main box then the conductive surfaces of the refrigerator, microwave, and any other device on that circuit with a ground prong on its plug can be at that same voltage, and the conditions under which a half a volt can kill you are common. This will be more dangerous than being completely ungrounded, since the conductive surfaces of devices with grounding cords will be energized on a daily basis.

I completely agree with you.  However I offered a solution to the OP where he could use the surge suppressors to protect electronic equipment.  They need a ground prong from the plug in able to bleed back excessive current stored in the device capacitors after a surge event.  I would only jump neutral to ground on the outlets used for these devices and not the whole property.

That is why I suggested that the OP put in an additional EGC and bonds it to the neutral line of the distribution panel, that way it will prevent the neutral line from floating in the event of a failure from the utility source.

 

[westom]

I completely agree with you.  However I offered a solution to the OP where he could use the surge suppressors to protect electronic equipment.  They need a ground prong from the plug in able to bleed back excessive current stored in the device capacitors after a surge event.  

The intent is correct.  But a serious difference exists in two grounds.  'Safety' ground is about bonding everything to a common point - a ground bar in the main breaker box.  Safety ground is essential to protecting humans.  Items that must bond to this are copper pipes, third prong on all wall receptacles, incoming neutral wire, all receptacle neutral wires, and earth ground rods.  Again this is 'safety' ground (what some call equipment ground).  It (and not earth) defines that protection. That connection (bonding) must be low resistance.

Safety ground does not make protectors effective.  Protectors that connect to a wall receptacle (third prong) 'safety' ground only makes that connection to protect human life.

Effective protectors make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to 'earth' ground.  Not low resistance; low impedance.  Protectors that do not have a dedicated wire for that low impedance (ie wire has no sharp bends) connection do not even claim to protect from destructive surges.  These superior protectors even claim to earth direct lightning strikes - without damage even to the protector.  One 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliances.  And is the only solution found in facilities that cannot have surge damage.

Yes, 'safety' ground does connect to 'earth' ground.  Some wires that provide connection to one also provide connection to the other. But a purpose between safety ground and earth ground is significant.

For example, that three prong tester can report a missing 'safety' ground.  It cannot report a missing 'earth' ground.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Keep in mind that Dominican wiring is typically run through *conduit* (1/2" PVC pipe) without a ground wire. Along with pounding a 5 ft 1/2" dia aluminum stake into the ground, you'd have to run new wire to and from the breaker box to any newly grounded outlet. If you have metal conduit(unlikely) you might be able to ground that, then connect the outlet ground wires to it. It's not a quick fix on existing construction.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Power companies in the US do not provide ground. They provide the power to the meter, which is then connected to the breaker box. The ground wire and stake is installed during construction and can usually be found right next to the meter.

 

[Lucas61]

Replace the outlets!

Wow! Three word advice! Yes, someone else suggested same. When I think about it, there are connections in the outlets that could become faulty and/or degrade in time. Or the other possibility would be the integrity of the wiring leading to the outlets.

 

[Lucas61]

Quote: Obviously your surge suppressors and UPS units are useless.


Without ground my UPS is half-useless. It has two functions. Yes, surge suppression IS useless without proper grounding but the second function, that of Uninterrupted Power, works fine. Much like an inverter, in a power outage, even a failure in milliseconds, the untit switches to DC via the battery that was charged via AC. I connect only my computer and monitor to this strip on the UPS. I can attest that it continues operation in a brief outage and gives me enough time to shut down in a full power outage.

 

[beeza]

The intent is correct.  But a serious difference exists in two grounds.  'Safety' ground is about bonding everything to a common point - a ground bar in the main breaker box.  Safety ground is essential to protecting humans.  Items that must bond to this are copper pipes, third prong on all wall receptacles, incoming neutral wire, all receptacle neutral wires, and earth ground rods.  Again this is 'safety' ground (what some call equipment ground).  It (and not earth) defines that protection. That connection (bonding) must be low resistance.

Safety ground does not make protectors effective.  Protectors that connect to a wall receptacle (third prong) 'safety' ground only makes that connection to protect human life.

Effective protectors make a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to 'earth' ground.  Not low resistance; low impedance.  Protectors that do not have a dedicated wire for that low impedance (ie wire has no sharp bends) connection do not even claim to protect from destructive surges.  These superior protectors even claim to earth direct lightning strikes - without damage even to the protector.  One 'whole house' protector costs about $1 per protected appliances.  And is the only solution found in facilities that cannot have surge damage.

Yes, 'safety' ground does connect to 'earth' ground.  Some wires that provide connection to one also provide connection to the other. But a purpose between safety ground and earth ground is significant.

For example, that three prong tester can report a missing 'safety' ground.  It cannot report a missing 'earth' ground.

Yes we've already established that.  But rather than quoting electrical code and rectifying the problems the OP to meet code standards, we need to think outside the box.  From what the OP has written it can be assumed that the outlets are only wired with live and neutral.  He needs some kind of protection for his electronic devices in case of a surge, which is a very common occurrence here.  Fixing the OPs rented apartment to code standards is a non-starter for obvious reasons.

Live to neutral faults are less common and unlikely to be lethal, unless the person who touches a failed component has a weak heart, is soaking wet and bare footed.  I've been bitten by crappy Dominican winning several times and I'm still here!  Luckily Dominican households are 110v like the States.  Good job it's not 240v like where I'm from, the UK.

 

[bachata]

The cheapest way will be to set a bucket filled up with dirt next to your devise, stick a piece of rod then wired from the rod to the chassis of your equipment.

Dominican proficiency!

JJ

 

[Cdn_Gringo]

Without ground my UPS is half-useless. It has two functions. Yes, surge suppression IS useless without proper grounding but the second function, that of Uninterrupted Power, works fine.

You are lucky. My UPS devices will not power on without a functioning ground. The power on self-test protests loudly and then shuts the unit down. This and the unpleasant experience of being shocked every time I touched a metal appliance is what prompted me to rewire a house. Granted I had significant problems other than just the lack of a ground in that property. 

 

[Salsafan]

This thread already a Sticky in Living ?!

 

[bigbird]

The cheapest way will be to set a bucket filled up with dirt next to your devise, stick a piece of rod then wired from the rod to the chassis of your equipment.

Dominican proficiency!

JJ

Would a 55 gallon drum work better than a 5 gallon bucket?

 

[PeterInBrat]

Replacing the outlets won't do anything if there are just two wires. The bucket of dirt idea doesn't sound plausible.

 

[bigbird]

The cheapest way will be to set a bucket filled up with dirt next to your devise, stick a piece of rod then wired from the rod to the chassis of your equipment.

Dominican proficiency!

JJ

Here you go JJ......... and a professional job as they actually used green wire. ....... just too funny

 

[wuarhat]

I was staying in a house in Santo Domingo with no ground. It did have a cut off two inch piece of approximately 04 bare ground wire sticking up out of the concrete in front near the meter. I clamped it to a piece of #12 wire and ran that exposed to the main box ground bus and then ran another piece of the same to outlets the devices that should be grounded used. They sell clips at hardware store for running the cable along the outside of the wall in a corner.

 

[wuarhat]

The cheapest way will be to set a bucket filled up with dirt next to your devise, stick a piece of rod then wired from the rod to the chassis of your equipment.

Dominican proficiency!

JJ

Here you go JJ......... and a professional job as they actually used green wire. ....... just too funny

Nice venting too. If one doesn't get you the other one will.