Haiti s charcoal, DR forests

[Tropicdude]

!" but the reality is that if there is land that you are not using and someone else needs it, guess they are going to take it....

Whether someone "needs it" or wants it, its all a question of money really, if the Haitians had money, like Cemex did, the gov. wouldn't be so concerned.

have you not noticed that nothing is sacred, everything has its price. in "El Parque Mirador norte" they recently allowed a tire company to to promotions inside the park, in Mirador sur, you have little businesses that are allowed to operate inside the park. and now in ever increasing numbers if you go to "El botanico" on almost any given day you will find cars, and jeepetas driving around, sometimes fast. I have even seen them park on the grass.

in this government money talks and BS walks.

 

[mountainannie]

Whether someone "needs it" or wants it, its all a question of money really, if the Haitians had money, like Cemex did, the gov. wouldn't be so concerned.

have you not noticed that nothing is sacred, everything has its price. in "El Parque Mirador norte" they recently allowed a tire company to to promotions inside the park, in Mirador sur, you have little businesses that are allowed to operate inside the park. and now in ever increasing numbers if you go to "El botanico" on almost any given day you will find cars, and jeepetas driving around, sometimes fast. I have even seen them park on the grass.

in this government money talks and BS walks.

NO Jeepetas in the botanica? I am really shocked and offended by this since it is really one of the few places to really go in the city to be out of the city...

 

[Keith R]

and now in ever increasing numbers if you go to "El botanico" on almost any given day you will find cars, and jeepetas driving around, sometimes fast. I have even seen them park on the grass.

in this government money talks and BS walks.

That's strange, because I was in the Botantical Gardens with my son for most of an afternoon at the end of July (told him it was a hidden jewel of SD he should get to know), and saw no jeepetas or cars past the parking lot entrance. Did see the tour tram, and a few maintenance vehicles and one or two scooters with Botantico personnel on them, but that was it. In fact, I was struck by how many people were jogging on the Botantico trails...

 

[Tropicdude]

I go to the Jardin Botanico every couple of weeks or so, its only about 5 minutes from me, vehicles are becoming more and more common, mainly they allow them in because these are groups doing photo shoots either for weddings or ads etc. but I have seen cars with groups going in for picnics.

I'll take some pictures next time I go in for a walk, although they are major busy this week, they have the marathon walk, and then right after (next weekend) the plant festival. already the Proceres ave. has been closed. in preperation for the Marathon tomorrow. ( Sunday 24th)

 

[bienamor]

I go to the Jardin Botanico every couple of weeks or so, its only about 5 minutes from me, vehicles are becoming more and more common, mainly they allow them in because these are groups doing photo shoots either for weddings or ads etc. but I have seen cars with groups going in for picnics.

I'll take some pictures next time I go in for a walk, although they are major busy this week, they have the marathon walk, and then right after (next weekend) the plant festival. already the Proceres ave. has been closed. in preperation for the Marathon tomorrow. ( Sunday 24th)

Thats a shame when I first got here the only thing allowed was the little train. No worry about cars.

 

[mountainannie]

organized cutting

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/lo...arcoal-spurs-Dominican--Haitian-crime-cartels

i do not know the original source for this since dt does not post it.

anyone?

 

[Chirimoya]

Translated from an article in today's Listin Diario, also quoted in DR1 News.

La Rep?blica - El negocio ilegal del carb?n rivaliza con el de las drogas

Illegal charcoal rivals drugs
The illegal commerce in charcoal made from trees on the Dominican side of the border and smuggled to Haiti is now rivaling the drug trade. It is organized and controlled by gangs on both sides of the border. According to people in the area, this was the motive behind the murder of three Haitians in Pedernales last week. Listin Diario reporters learned that charcoal trafficking, either for use in Haiti or for local consumption, rivals the earnings of the drug trade, gun running, contraband appliances, alcoholic beverages or consumer goods such as rice and other forms of illegal trade in the frontier area.
Jimani is the second largest market along the frontier after Dajabon. It is the center for the illegal charcoal trade and the area where gangs fight over territory and where the charcoal ovens are built. There are several actors in the charcoal trade, including the Dominicans who hire Haitians to build the ovens and the Haitians who buy and re-sell the charcoal in Haiti. A RD$1000 bag of charcoal from the DR can fetch RD$1500 in Haiti.

 

[minerva_feliz]

Sad incident in Jimani

Dos de los tres muertos haitianos eran menores; entregan cadaveres a autoridades de Hait? : Cuatriboliao.Net

I think that these killings in Jimani are what caused people to finally consider the charcoal trade a form organized crime. It's really sad...the report I posted said 2 of the 3 cadavers are believed to be 12-15 year old boys.

I wouldn't say that the charcoal trade RIVALS the drug trade though, in profits. Maybe resembles would be a better word?

 

[minerva_feliz]

Some real Dominican style justice...

Identifican cad?veres de haitianos; imponen medidas de coerci?n a dos implicacados en el caso : Cuatriboliao.Net

Ok, so they identified the bodies and arrested 2 people for being involved in the murders. Those 2 people were ordered not to leave the country and to report to the court one day a month. Wow. You are accused of shooting 3 people and burning their bodies in a charcoal oven, and then you get to walk around free, no bail, to await a trial (if anyone ever bothers with that).

If it were 3 people of ANY other nationality than Haitian that were shot and burned (possibly while still alive, and two being so young), it would be a HUGE deal and these guys would have it a little rougher. I hate to say it, but it seems dead Haitians are a dime a dozen in the southwest at least, as I have noticed several other cases where Dominican justice isn't at it's finest.

 

[mountainannie]

well, yes, but then...

Identifican cad?veres de haitianos; imponen medidas de coerci?n a dos implicacados en el caso : Cuatriboliao.Net

Ok, so they identified the bodies and arrested 2 people for being involved in the murders. Those 2 people were ordered not to leave the country and to report to the court one day a month. Wow. You are accused of shooting 3 people and burning their bodies in a charcoal oven, and then you get to walk around free, no bail, to await a trial (if anyone ever bothers with that).

If it were 3 people of ANY other nationality than Haitian that were shot and burned (possibly while still alive, and two being so young), it would be a HUGE deal and these guys would have it a little rougher. I hate to say it, but it seems dead Haitians are a dime a dozen in the southwest at least, as I have noticed several other cases where Dominican justice isn't at it's finest.

yes but then.... there is an undercurrent also of "frontier justice" here.. whereby the authorities letting the guys walk are saying.. SEE THIS!! There is NO way that CESFRONT can stop this. According to todays DR1 news,there are not even the proper laws over this.... so this is just a way to sort of test the public outrage on this. Notably absent here is the Chorus of international Haitian voices which are normally raised in defense of any and all abuses against Haitians in this country. Haitians understand that this is sort of their problem.. they have cut down all their own trees.. they are up against it... We have been having a discussion on this on the Haiti list serve. About the price of propane here vs there.. of course it is higher there. Although I am not clear if ALL propane is subsidized here or if just some people get subsidies.. but the reality in Haiti is that there is simply NO way for the poor to fill up a tank. They may be able to buy TODAY's charcoal, but they could not buy a tank of propane.

So I think that there has to be a discussion of what trees can be planted and grown for harvesting for charcoal? I mean, we all deplore its use but at least it is theoretically a renewable resource. If all those trees which were cut had been replanted, there would be no problem. It is the cutting without replanting, the lack of sustainable forestry... of course, that makes the price of charcoal higher,--- perhaps as high as propane...

back to bagasse---

sugar cane bagasse----

why not why not why not ----

 

[mountainannie]

outcry heard

the outcry was raised as expected

in an open letter to President Fernadez

signed by 30 diaspora and haitian intellectuals about the murders and the "culture of hate"

crowded out a bit by news of the replacement of the Prime Minister of Haiti

met with indifference by official sectors here in the DR

who said predictably that haiti needs to get control of its migration

and

they live better here (the ones who were not killed, obviously) than there and you should thank us

 

[minerva_feliz]

went over like a lead balloon?

I heard that it was pretty much immediately dismissed as unfounded by the vice-president and Miguel Vargas, that all foreigners get the same treatment regardless of nationality. RIIIght. If it were 3 dead gringos, like I said, people would have a fire under their butts for sure. I would love to do an investigative documentary about that "equal treatment" using hidden cameras, a gringo and a Haitian.

Those silly Haitian intellectuals (sarcasm) :tired:

Anyone have a link for that letter?

 

[suarezn]

Annie: Your post made me wonder how come there isn't a huge black market for subsidized propane from The DR to be sold in Haiti. Maybe there is and I'm just not aware, but it seems that if you owned a propane station and you could sell your gas for even 20 pesos more per gallon that could be a very tempting profit.

 

[mountainannie]

how is your French?

I heard that it was pretty much immediately dismissed as unfounded by the vice-president and Miguel Vargas, that all foreigners get the same treatment regardless of nationality. RIIIght. If it were 3 dead gringos, like I said, people would have a fire under their butts for sure. I would love to do an investigative documentary about that "equal treatment" using hidden cameras, a gringo and a Haitian.

Those silly Haitian intellectuals (sarcasm) :tired:

Anyone have a link for that letter?

Kiskeya! 1994-2009...15 ANS!!!

No, there was more on point than that.. the Cardinal said Haiti should take care of its immigrant problem itself and stop the flood....

 

[mountainannie]

the poverty

Annie: Your post made me wonder how come there isn't a huge black market for subsidized propane from The DR to be sold in Haiti. Maybe there is and I'm just not aware, but it seems that if you owned a propane station and you could sell your gas for even 20 pesos more per gallon that could be a very tempting profit.

we had a long discussion on this on the Haiti list serve.. The problem is the poverty.. the poor simply do not have the money to fill up a tank.. they may have enough money to buy enough charcoal for today's dinner but not enough to put aside to fill up a tank.-----there is propane available in Haiti... at about 20 pesos more per gallon, I think.. perhaps not even that much. But one good estimate I read is that outside PauP there are 300,'000 people who wake up every morning with absolutely nothing to eat. Their job is to find food for that day-- for them and their family.

 

[mountainannie]

Scary report in the NY Times

On Environmental Brink, Haiti Scrambles for a Lifeline - NYTimes.com

note where they say that they are even pulling up roots now to use for charcoal

 

[mountainannie]

And then a more positive one!

Recycling in Haiti Eases Tensions in 'a Very Violent Neighborhood' - NYTimes.com

I am wondering if this project might not be a good one for SD where there are so many papers --

Not everyone has a puppy

 

[mountainannie]

propane tanks

There was an earlier question posted here about importing propane from the DR and on the Haiti listserv someone posted an explanation of why this is not done which I thought would be of interest.

"The Dominican model of subsidizing propane as a cooking fuel is a good idea [maybe Chavez can send some] but the problem in Haiti is the monopoly of the propane distributor. The gas regulator which fits the Haitian propane bottle has been banned in most countries due to being dangerous and is not interchangeable with any bottle I know of except for those imported to Haiti by whoever controls the propane industry in Haiti. For example; you cannot bring a propane bottle from the DR, the US or any other country and have it refilled in Haiti without a special adaptor nor will your safer regulator fit the Haitien bottle. Why is this?
Many people are horribly burned due to propane fires from these dreadful regulators each year. Who controls the propane industry in Haiti and why have that not adopted the safer bottles and regulators?"