Have you guys read what this lunatic said?

[bob saunders]

People think that it is such a preposterous idea that Haiti and the Dominican Republic will merge but stranger things have happened in world history. New countries form and former countries separate all the time. Just look at Central American countries, former parts of Russia etc.

If you would've asked me if a black man was electable in the US just four short years ago I would've laughed. Never say never to anything. It's always disturbing when I see Dominicans reactions to possibly merging with Haiti. Why is it that Dominicans dislike Haitians so? It can't be crime, because although Haitians can commit crimes Dominicans can as well. Both Haitians and Dominicans share some of the same ancestors anyways. I'm not an ex-pat but I've been to DR five times. It's a pretty dark skinned country if you ask me. Lots of brown colors, but that's another debate. I'm just saying that people should really look deep down inside as to why there is such fierce resentment towards Haitians.

The Haitian people just want a better life for themselves. Conditions in Haiti are horrible. One can literally die of hunger there. What's wrong with wanting a better life for you or your children? Certainly Dominicans can relate; my hotel in Santo Domingo is right by the Consulate for a Visa and it is ALWAYS full during the week...

Conditions in Haiti are horrible, and mainly created by Haitians. Why should they be given the opportunity to ruin the DR. If Haitians have legal immigration papers, student visas, or work permits, and have their children that are born in the DR recognized as Haitians with Haitian Citizenship then I doubt most Dominican would be accepting. As it is they come in illegally, breed without though, and they do cost the Dominican medical system a lot of resources.

 

[shawn27]

You ought to read history books instead of conjecturing. Haitians caused their own problems by massacring and mistreating Dominicans during the occupation.

And Trujillo didn't massacre people? Ever heard of the word perejil? I sure hope you can pronounce it. I've done extensive research on the Dominican Republic.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Can someone name just one (1) benefit to the Dominican Republic from the merger of these two cojoined, yet totally different sovereign Nations?

From my point of view, it's an experiment that's doomed to failure, just like the one called Belgium is about to implode due to the tensions between the french speaking walloons from the south and the dutch speaking flemings from the north. What makes the hispaniolan case worse than the belgian one is the fact that BOTH countries are in an undeveloped status.

 

[Naked_Snake]

And Trujillo didn't massacre people? Ever heard of the word perejil? I sure hope you can pronounce it. I've done extensive research on the Dominican Republic.

But your one about Haiti is sorely lacking. Why I'm not surprised?

 

[shawn27]

First of all Shawn just because you?ve been to the Dr 5 times doesn?t give you the right or sufficient insight to make judgement calls.

Dominicans and Haitians don?t share anything other than the island of Hispa?ola. It may be difficult for your cocaine eyes to notice but our cultures, customs and history are as different as night and day.

Why should we Dominicans be held accountable for picking up the slack of the Haitian people? I think and I?m sure you will agree, that we have enough problems of our own to worry about. Besides I?m sure you would understand and agree that the United States is in a much better position to help these poor souls, you guys could do a better job in helping them than the DR could ever hope to do.

Your right about the conditions in Haitia being horrible, but then again if your smart enough, you could understand that if the DR gives haitian a free run of the island they would ravage this side as they did theirs.

Don?t read into my disapproval of the unification of the Island as racism or xenophobe, because its not, its just pure unadulterated resentment. For years the Haitian and all their NGO?s have had a propaganda machine running at full speed, against the DR. They?ve managed to misinform the international community to think that we?ve had some sort of slave racket going on with the haitian workers. When in fact these workers came to the DR willingly to work, all be it for meager pay, but under the circumstances they (I believe) made out okay.

What else did these haitian workers have as a viable form of work in their own country. I?ll tell you what they had, squat, that what. Under the circumstances they came to work as willing workers and the haitian diaspora some how saw through this as modern day slavery.

I appreciate your constructive criticism. I'm not necessarily making judgement calls but I'm sure you will also agree that I have the right to my opinion. Please note I DO NOT agree with the Haitian historian that the two countries should merge. It really isn't necessary as really almost 20% of the entire population of DR consists of Haitians. Dominicans need to understand that Haiti will always be their "problem" at least in our lifetime. I love Dominican culture, that's why I've chosen DR as my vacation spot. I think it's obvious that Dominicans and Haitians will have to learn how to live together. They already do. Due to Haiti's proximity to DR this will always be an issue.

 

[shawn27]

Conditions in Haiti are horrible, and mainly created by Haitians. Why should they be given the opportunity to ruin the DR. If Haitians have legal immigration papers, student visas, or work permits, and have their children that are born in the DR recognized as Haitians with Haitian Citizenship then I doubt most Dominican would be accepting. As it is they come in illegally, breed without though, and they do cost the Dominican medical system a lot of resources.

Do you think it's fair for Dominicans are Haitian heritage to be esentially stateless? I would argue that the fact that many Dominicans of Haitian heritage that cannot obtain a cedula meanning cannot attend school hence receive an education have no other choice but to resort to selling drugs, robbing and killing people to survive.

 

[shawn27]

Can someone name just one (1) benefit to the Dominican Republic from the merger of these two cojoined, yet totally different sovereign Nations?

Currency would be stronger.

 

[shawn27]

Just for clarification purposes

I do not think the two countries should merge. I just think it's silly to think it could never happen. Canada is a great example. It's one country yet Ontario and Quebec are almost two totally different worlds. There are some canadians that don't speak french or some that don't speak english. Different cultures as well. This serves as a response to those that feel that Haiti and DR couldn't merge because of language and "cultural" factors.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Currency would be stronger.

Without a superpower bankrolling it (and I mean REALLY bankrolling it AND supervising it, like the US bankrolled Japan and Germany after WWII), I don't see how it could have a chance of being successful. You're forgetting that the DR is a Third World country deeply mired in corruption and a plethora of other issues.

 

[shawn27]

Without a superpower bankrolling it (and I mean REALLY bankrolling it AND supervising it, like the US bankrolled Japan and Germany after WWII), I don't see how it could have a chance of being successful. You're forgetting that the DR is a Third World country deeply mired in corruption and a plethora of other issues.

I don't consider the DR a third world country. It is more like a developing nation. Why wouldn't the currency become stronger with two countries merging into one currency? That's exactly why we have the EURO now.

 

[Naked_Snake]

I don't consider the DR a third world country. It is more like a developing nation. Why wouldn't the currency become stronger with two countries merging into one currency? That's exactly why we have the EURO now.

Because you're forgetting the fact that the countries that initially formed the EU were all in more or less the same stage of development. Haiti and the DR are worlds apart, so, without having an outside party really bankrolling the project, the DR run the risk of ending bankrupt, cuz' Haiti is a country that needs to be rebuilt from zero, very literally, cuz' unlike the cases of Germany and Japan after WWII, Haiti's current human resources are largely uneducated, and the costs of empowering such a large number of people would be staggering, specially when we take into account that the DR have a large chunk of its own populace that is in need of attention.

 

[colombianLisa]

The point of view of somebody who is not a dominican or haitian national. Dominicans look down on Haitians, Puerto Ricans look down on Dominicans and Americans look down on Puerto Ricans..... Todo mundo encuentra a su papa.

 

[colombianLisa]

I don't consider the DR a third world country. It is more like a developing nation. Why wouldn't the currency become stronger with two countries merging into one currency? That's exactly why we have the EURO now.

developing countries ARE third world countries.

 

[Ezequiel]

You never answered my question as to why Dominicans have this intense hate towards Haitians.

Some Dominicans not all hate Haitians. Probably WE Dominicans are suspicious about Haitians because they once tried to exterminate us :cheeky:

Haitians think that the whole island belongs to them :cheeky:

And what do you expect from poor people seeing even poorest people from another country taking over their jobs :cheeky: That's why Cubans and Colombians need visa to come to the DR, because they were overstaying their visa and they were taking jobs that Dominican can do.

Why American hates Mexican? Why European hates Arabs? You tell me now!

The Soviet Union did not break into separate countries because they had separate cultures and languages.

So, are you saying that the Republic of Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Armenia don't have a different culture and language than Russia?

Why Chechnya wants to secede from Russia?????? Why Tibet wants to secede from China?????? Why "El Pa?s Vasco" and Catalonia wants to secede from Spain????? Why Quebec wants to secede from Canada?????

You lack mental competence if you cannot understand why many initially thought Obama couldn't be elected. There are those who doubt he is even an American citizen.

Not DR related, move it to the OFF TOPIC forum.

You say Haitians can't make their country work- The Haitian people are responsible for their long history of corrupt dictators?

Yes they are responsible. We Dominicans got rid off our dictator (Trujillo), maybe Haitians need more Cojones.

What do you think about Cuba? Are the Cuban people responsible? What about Nicaragua?

Who care about Cuba or Nicaragua? Not DR related, take it to the OFF Topic forum

Haitians and Dominicans do share similar cultures. Tribal music brought by African slaves is what influenced merengue, salsa, etc. Certainly not European.

The only thing that we share is the island and some DNA.

Even though I've only been to DR five times I still know how to read. I'm well aware of Dominican culture and how this current state of anything anti black started.

You are just full of jealousy and envy that your country (Haiti) is a mess and the DR that won its independent from Haiti is prosperous and thriving.

Thnk of certain terms- pelo bueno, pelo malo,

I never used those terms, I prefer to call it "Paj?n de culo loco" or "Pelo de cacata".

even homeless women in DR have "straight" hair.

Just because they are homeless, that doesn't mean that they have to look horrible. We Dominican love to look good even if we are starving

Why do you think the US, France and Canada should solve Haiti's problems?

Why do think that the DR should solve Haiti's problems!!!!!!????? The DR is broke, we don't have money.

If Canada, France and USA can't help, the DR can't either.

Look Haiti needs help and the Dominican Republic is in the best position to help them.

I know Haiti needs help, but the DR is NOT in the best position to help Haiti. Haiti needs to help itself with the help of Haitians expat.

It's in their best interest because what happens in Haiti ultimately will affect DR.

That's why our president is building a university in Haiti to help your people in their own country.

 

[cobraboy]

You're forgetting that the DR is a Third World country deeply mired in corruption and a plethora of other issues.

If the DR is Third World, what the hell would you call Haiti?

The per capita GDP in Haiti is 1/7 the DR's-BEFORE the earthquake.Think about that. 1/7 of a POOR country!

Merging would cause many more problems that it would solve.

 

[Mr_DR]

I had lunch at B & B Epis Kreol in CZ when they first opened. The food was good, plentiful and the Prestige was a nice departure. As I stood outside for a smoke after the meal I noticed one SUV containing a pair of Dominicanos who seemed rather upset that there was a Haitian restaraunt there. Everybody else who passed never gave the place a second thought or looked twice.

I can see why some Haitians would be hesitant to open an establishment featuring authentic Haitian anything. The minority of Dominicans who are utterly anti Haitian (not just illegal immigrants) is as vocal as it is small. Some hatred runs so deep that it has no solution. It just is, always has been and always will be.

You would probably be the first one to say that these two were upset because they discriminate them, which you could be right but did you also think that these guys were probably upset because the place they had enjoy stopping at for so long wasn't there anymore?

And about dominicans not eating there, believe it or not many dominicans are very picky when it comes to eating outside their homes and where they eat. There are many dominicans that maybe extremely poor but they are very clean and expect no less cleanliness at the places they eat, sometime won't eat or even drink a glass of water from someone who doesn't even try to practice cleanliness, and I heard from many people that a good number of poor haitians are not the cleanest in the world. Also with the cholera going on and the defecating in bags and tossing them in residentials, schools, and offices doesn't positively contributes psychologically to wanting to eat at any haitian eateries..

People are quick to call a dominican racist at anything disliked about haitians,
I don't like haitian food, does that makes me a racist?
I don't like illegal latinos causing problems just like I don't like illegal haitians casuing problems. Does that makes me a racist. I am all up for restricting illegal haitian entries, does that makes me a racist?

Why is it that more than 80% of the pregnant haitian women population cross our border to give birth in our hospitals, then haitians get upset because they are not given dominican citizenship?.

Why is it that dominican law states that you are only recognized as dominicans if you are born in the DR, and at least one of the parent is either dominican or legal resident?

So, when a hatian is born in DR he is not given double citizenship by Haiti,
Haiti will claim the sons and daughters of haitians born in any other countries and given double citizenship except the ones born in DR? yet Dominicans are seing as the ones in the wrong because the country apply its citizenship rights accordingly to it's laws, while Hati applies it only partially and rather leave its own people born in the DR countryless.

Hatred, why is it that when dominicans hate hatians they are called racists but when hatian hate dominicans they are not called racists?

 

[Ezequiel]

Do you think it's fair for Dominicans are Haitian heritage to be esentially stateless? I would argue that the fact that many Dominicans of Haitian heritage that cannot obtain a cedula meanning cannot attend school hence receive an education have no other choice but to resort to selling drugs, robbing and killing people to survive.

They are not stateless, they are Haitian Citizen as per the Haitian Constitution.

 

[Mr_DR]

it is not about Obama

Please don't generalize I don't like either one, I tolerated Clinton. And Obama did not fool me, I knew he was just gonna sit there for four years to collect a paycheck and enjoy some fame. In so many years he spent in the Senate and didn't accomplish anything, not even as much as signing or approving a simple bill, why would've I think he was gonna be a good president? I tried to tell all the latinos that he wasn't gonna be good but they believed in his false promise "vote for me and I will cut your illegal immigrant relatives a break," the only thing he is cutting their relatives is a free ticket and a free bed in jail, and to them an up to 5 years per immigrant aiding and abetting criminal charge.

Please do not criticize our wonderful President. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

Just stating the truth, unless but you can change my mind if you can think of anything positive if you can show me one good thin he did while in the senate. IMO he was collecting a paycheck then just like he is now. But it is not about Obama being a bad or good president. It is about the human rights violation that they label others with when they are the leaders at it.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Merging would cause many more problems that it would solve.

That was the point I was trying to get across. Bottom line, the DR can't carry the haitian burden on its own, cuz' even though I disagree with RacerX's calling the DR a failed state, I'm not in the clouds like Pichardo, and am humble enough to recognize that, even though we have advanced much as a country, we have a long way to go before being out of the woods.

 

[mountainannie]

Why is it that more than 80% of the pregnant haitian women population cross our border to give birth in our hospitals, then haitians get upset because they are not given dominican citizenship?.

Why is it that dominican law states that you are only recognized as dominicans if you are born in the DR, and at least one of the parent is either dominican or legal resident?

So, when a hatian is born in DR he is not given double citizenship by Haiti,
Haiti will claim the sons and daughters of haitians born in any other countries and given double citizenship except the ones born in DR? yet Dominicans are seing as the ones in the wrong because the country apply its citizenship rights accordingly to it's laws, while Hati applies it only partially and rather leave its own people born in the DR countryless.

Hatred, why is it that when dominicans hate hatians they are called racists but when hatian hate dominicans they are not called racists?

I am very confused by this post.

Haiti does not now recognize dual nationality

Haiti: Constitution, 1987

ARTICLE 10:
The regulations governing Haitian nationality shall be determined by law.
ARTICLE 11:
Any person born of a Haitian father or Haitian mother who are themselves native-born Haitians and have never renounced their nationality possesses Haitian nationality at the time of birth.
ARTICLE 12:
Haitian nationality may be adquired by naturalization.
ARTICLE 12-1:
After five years of continuous residence in the territory of the Republic, any foreigner may obtain Haitian nationality by naturalization, in conformity with the regulations established by law.
ARTICLE 12-2:
Haitians by naturalization shall be allowed to exercise the right to vote but they must wait five(5) years after the date of their naturalization to be eligible to hold public posts other than those reserved by the Constitution and by law for native-born Haitians.
ARTICLE 13:
Haitian nationality is lost by:
a. Naturalization in a foreign country;

b. Holding a political post in the service of a foreign country;

c. Continuous residence abroad of a naturalized Haitian without duly granted authorization by a competent official. Anyone who loses his nationality in this manner may not reacquire it.

ARTICLE 14:
A naturalized Haitian may recover his Haitian nationality by meeting all of the conditions and formalities imposed on aliens by the law.
ARTICLE 15:
Dual Haitian and foreign nationality is in no case permitted.
TITLE III