- Thread starter Marianopolita
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How Dominican is your Spanish?
That’s the irony. People will correct you if you drop the /s/ as a foreigner. Your philosophy makes sense but the other aspect is don’t get into the habit because if you speak Spanish in other countries where the /s/ is not dropped people will wonder why you are not pronouncing the /s/ for example in Peru.
-MP.
That is quite a potpourri of Spanish exposure which is great for you. You picked a clear region where Spanish is spoken Colombia, Peru, and Ecuador. Basically, Andean Spanish is considered to have clear spoken speech unless you get into the rural areas but large cities like Bogota, Lima, Quito and Guayaquil, you are cruising.
Yes, Caribbean Spanish meaning the PR, DR and Cuban varieties can be daunting, challenging, fast, not pleasant, however you want to describe it. All I can say is you can’t classify all in the same basket because you will meet some speakers who speak very nicely from those same countries. Education plays a huge role and we all know the situation in th DR. Cuba too, you ever listen to some authors speak who have been interviewed by the Spanish press in Spain? You would change your mind but I know you are talking about the everyday average speaker and I am talking about scholars and professionals.
-MP.
I get asked if I'm from Spain. In Germany speaking German they ask me if I'm Danish.
Have got to roll with the punches indeed.....
My first experience speaking Spanish here was with children in a volunteer setting. Then I listened to the Michel Thomas tapes, which helped tremendously. I have been speaking Spanish about 4 years, and still can’t use all the proper tenses with lots of verbs. I’m an English teacher so that trips me up because I want to refer to English rules too often.
Spanish with a lisp sounds absurd to me, and having visited Colombia I can’t say that I like their accent. Ecuadorian Spanish is quite pleasant, but that might be because it’s easier to understand. A nice break from the Dominican machine gun Spanish, but even the DR way bothers me far less than the lisp.
Spanish with a lisp sounds absurd to me, and having visited Colombia I can’t say that I like their accent. Ecuadorian Spanish is quite pleasant, but that might be because it’s easier to understand. A nice break from the Dominican machine gun Spanish, but even the DR way bothers me far less than the lisp.
What is the difficulty you are having with Spanish verbs? There are 13 tenses that are used in everyday speech. If you master those then you will be on a strong path to communication. You can acquire vocabulary daily either by studying, observation of signs, interaction with people etc. but verbs you need to master because you need to express your actions in the present, past, future and conditional etc. As well, you need to understand the indicative mood vs the subjunctive mood and there are quite a few irregular verb forms. Many people who are learning Spanish think they can get around it, skip it, ignore it etc. It is not possible. It is a vital part of the language whereas in English, it is still used selectively and almost obsolete. You will see in grammar books now it is referred to as formal speech (whatever). Example, espero que vengas. Modo subjuntivo- presente.
Dominican Spanish may be faster then Spanish spoken in other countries but the truth is Spanish in general is spoken fast. The flow of the language allows it to be faster than English. I think it's the regional speech that may be the issue.
Certainly the ceceo speech of Spain is not for everyone and you will not meet too many Latin American Spanish speakers saying that they like the sound of the lisp.
-MP.
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I have to laugh, because folks in my U.S. county--who are not known for speaking English well--think that I am from outside the state. My English is U.S. midwestern, i.e., I sound like a news anchor. You notice that they all sound the same regardless of location. My teachers and grandmother would correct me with abandon, and insisted that I speak proper, U.S. English. It produced favorable results. I learned my Spanish in high school from a Chilean and a German. Both was extremely precise, and insisted that I speak slowly with deliberation. My university Spanish instructor hailed from Spain, although I do not know her region. One DR friend in the barrio--who possesses horrible diction and style--often asks me to rephrase what I say due to my word choice. She simply does not know the words, although I use common latin-based words. Her relatives, who attended UASD, have no issues. I confess that my knowledge of Portuguese plays a role, as I probably sound like a Brazilian who lives in a border state when I speak Spanish. Once, I had a Cuban translate my Spanish for someone in Guatemala. The Guatemalan thought that I was from Brazil. The Cuban and I did not have any problems, but laughed.
You are most correct. Once, in Spain, I used an informal term when asking a question in the street, and the gentleman in Sevilla corrected and admonished me in English, after giving a look of disdain. He said that I appeared to be an educated man, and should not use the word that a friend in a particular ethnic group used. He then explained the distinction. I have used proper Spanish at all times since that day. I have been corrected in Peru as well.
I speak Spanish with security guys, taxistas, workers, so I leave s's off of so many words. If I don't, they don't understand so well.
I speak properly (with s's) in the bank, lawyer's office, etc. I have to add all the s's back in when in U.S. speaking with Mexicans. I often explain why I am having trouble. Soy Dominicano. Casi. Siempre yo digo necesito aprender mas. Espanol.
The first time I heard "freco" I had to ask what is it? Aquacate freco. Fresco.
Y "sul." Sol? No. Sul. South.
And. then there was the Haitian woman. Guineo madulo. I think some Dominicans say this too. Maduro.
So many switched r's and l's.
I am sure in DR, sometimes educated people think "what the hell is this white guy doing talking Dominican street Spanish."
But, as someone here pointed out recently, it is useful for swearing at Dominicans. I don't do it much.
I am not good with verbs. A long time ago, I learned many proper future and past tenses. But, have forgotten many. I need to take a class. I say "voy a comprar" instead of comprare.
I speak properly (with s's) in the bank, lawyer's office, etc. I have to add all the s's back in when in U.S. speaking with Mexicans. I often explain why I am having trouble. Soy Dominicano. Casi. Siempre yo digo necesito aprender mas. Espanol.
The first time I heard "freco" I had to ask what is it? Aquacate freco. Fresco.
Y "sul." Sol? No. Sul. South.
And. then there was the Haitian woman. Guineo madulo. I think some Dominicans say this too. Maduro.
So many switched r's and l's.
I am sure in DR, sometimes educated people think "what the hell is this white guy doing talking Dominican street Spanish."
But, as someone here pointed out recently, it is useful for swearing at Dominicans. I don't do it much.
I am not good with verbs. A long time ago, I learned many proper future and past tenses. But, have forgotten many. I need to take a class. I say "voy a comprar" instead of comprare.
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Therefore, one can conclude all across the board whether it's English or Spanish that the message is it is best to speak properly using correct grammatical forms and vocabulary (word choice) whenever possible.
As I said before in one of my posts, people judge you based on the way you speak (the way you dress, the way you carry yourself, the people you associate with etc.) there's no break. Should it be this way all the time? In my opinion, no, it should not because certain life scenarios dictate certain behavior. However, I do agree that if a person tends to speak well all the time chances are that person speaks well and if a person tends to speak poorly all the time, chances are that person speaks poorly.
One aspect I noticed is that Spaniards don't have as much exposure to Latin American Spanish and this could be because of population 40 million approx. vs all of Latin America + the USA. I don't think the average Spaniard has heard even 25 % of the Spanish meaning vocabulary and grammar that is considered standard in Latin America. This is my estimation only.
Once again I applaud the RAE for keeping Spanish such a unified language.
-MP.
Be careful with that concept because it comes across as saying that your poor Spanish is because you are Dominican therefore, all Dominicans speak poorly. That is the image you are putting out there.
Caramba, algún día alguien va a decirte algo.
This phenomenon known as suppression of the /s/ in the middle of words is common in Caribbean Spanish specifically Cuba, DR and PR. I associate it more with Cuban speech rather than DR. As well, a noted aspect of the Cuban vernacular is suppression of /r/ in between two vowels. This is known. Cubans themselves will tell you and certain consonants get doubled for example algo is pronounced aggo. Now could there be some linguistic influence here Eastern Cuba with the DR? Absolutely.
The /r/ and /l/ is a known linguistic aspect in Caribbean Spanish again I have to be specific PR (even more than DR), DR and Cuba (depending on where in Cuba). Note I have not heard or read anything about this phenomenon being typical of Caribbean basin Spanish for example Panama, Colombia, Venezuela. I have yet to hear a Panamanian or Colombian say amol.
In my experience, Haitians (that have crossed the border) do not speak Spanish well. Plenty of mispronunciation of words, stress on the wrong syllable, and very hard d's. Being of Creole-French native tongue makes it quite difficult for them to speak Spanish in my opinion.
Here is interesting piece from a DR blogger:
Las Características del Español Dominicano
‘El español dominicano está conocido por la fluidez, la rapidez y muchas características más. Hay características diferentes de muchos de los otros países latinos y además hay características diferentes para cada parte de la isla.
El español dominicano puede ser divido en tres regiones diferente. Existen el Cibao, la Capital y el Sur.
Cibao
En la Republica Dominicana, “El Cibao”, es el norte de país, representado mas por Santiago, la segunda ciudad mas grande en el país. En el Cibao, donde vivía yo, la gente mete la ‘i’ en vez de la ‘r’ o ‘l’. La gente de La Capital no le gusta eso y dice que es muy feo. Un ejemplo de hablar con la ‘i’, me recuerda cuando yo estaba en Santiago, un muchacho me preguntó,
“¿Que es lo que tu “caiza”?
Yo dije, “¿Que? Él me lo preguntó de nuevo,
La Capital
La Capital, Santo Domingo es la ciudad más conocida y más grande en la Republica Dominicana. Tengo alguna familia allá y la he visitado mucho. En Santo Domingo el español está conocido por la lateralización. Eso es la pronunciación de la ‘r’ como la ‘l’. Yo hablo así cuando hablo en español. Por ejemplo en vez de decir ‘abre la puerta’ se dice, ‘abre la puelta’. Se mete una ‘l’ en todos los espacios donde debe estar una ‘r’. Mucha gente de Santo Domingo no les gusta el espanol de la gente del Cibao y dice que esta feo.
El Sur
En el sur es opuesto de Santo Domingo. Esa gente le mete una ‘r’ fuerte en vez de la ‘l’. Esa gente no dice, “Voy pa’ la capital’ se dice “voy pa’ la capitarrrrrr” y no me estoy burlando, en verdad ellos hablan así. Para mí eso es muy feo también pero uno puede ver la diferencia en todas las partes diferentes’. Source: http://mitareahoy.blogspot.ca/2016/06/las-caracteristicas-del-espanol.html
People will wonder period if you are speaking like that all the time. I know I would.
I don't recall reading that in this thread.
Yes, taking classes would do you wonders. If you can learn all that street Spanish why not bring your Spanish up to an educated level which opens the doors to communication at any level in the Spanish-speaking world? Don't worry if taxis, carro público drivers, and security guards can't understand you. They are in the minority.
There is nothing wrong with saying voy a comprar vs compraré. The first option is considered the informal future and the second the future tense in Spanish. Voy a comprar would be considered for something that is going to happen fairly soon whereas compraré could be further off in time two weeks, a month etc. Choice of the speaker completely.
-MP.
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My Spanish is almost fluent but not as perfect as it should be, as the daughter of a native Spanish-speaking mother. I spent time in Spain, Venezuela and Central America before moving to the DR almost 20 years ago.
I'm fairly aware of regional variations so I consciously try not to use Dominicanisms or Latin Americanisms when in other Spanish-speaking countries, but I mostly stick to "ustedes" instead of "vosotros" in Spain.
In Spain I've been told my accent sounds "americano" as in Latin American. In DR I get the same reaction as KateP. They can tell I'm not Dominican but they think I might be from another Spanish-speaking country, which is not far from the truth.
My son, who speaks native level Dominican Spanish, has been asked if he's Mexican, but this is probably because people in Spain can't always distinguish between Latin American accents.
I'm fairly aware of regional variations so I consciously try not to use Dominicanisms or Latin Americanisms when in other Spanish-speaking countries, but I mostly stick to "ustedes" instead of "vosotros" in Spain.
In Spain I've been told my accent sounds "americano" as in Latin American. In DR I get the same reaction as KateP. They can tell I'm not Dominican but they think I might be from another Spanish-speaking country, which is not far from the truth.
My son, who speaks native level Dominican Spanish, has been asked if he's Mexican, but this is probably because people in Spain can't always distinguish between Latin American accents.
I was born in Venezuela so Spanish and English were the first words I heard and spoke. But then we moved to New York when I was four. I studied Spanish in high school and college so I can pronounce well and spell but I’m only half fluent, using a lot of present tense wording. I pronounce so well that as soon as I say anything in Spanish everyone thinks I’m fully fluent and they speak regular fast to me and I miss a lot.
My maid and gardener speak campo Spanish and I don’t get 90% of what they say, even when I ask them to repeat it slower and clearer. That kind of sucks, it’s hard to have a normal conversation with them, and I really like them both, too.
My maid and gardener speak campo Spanish and I don’t get 90% of what they say, even when I ask them to repeat it slower and clearer. That kind of sucks, it’s hard to have a normal conversation with them, and I really like them both, too.
Bueno Chiri tú como KateP voy a hablarte en español. Debes aprovechar la oportunidad de practicar.
No sé qué decirte en cuanto a tu español. Tú sabes mejor lo que te ayudará a tener más fluidez. Sin embargo, voy a decirte con las oportunidades que has tenido (según tú) todavía me parece sorprendente que no tengas esa fluidez como dices.
¿En tú opinion qué es lo necesitas hacer para mejorar?
-MP.
Unfortunately, at that age essentially you got robbed of your ability to speak Spanish. Your parents should have continued to speak to you Spanish because guaranteed you would learn English in New York. However, the Spanish is still there even passively. If you wish to become fluent you would to have to speak Spanish all the time. There is no way around it. Total immersion, read, write, and speak. It's doable if you are interested of course.
-MP.
Me faltó la base fundamental del idioma durante mis primeros años porque mi mamá estaba concentrada en aprender el inglés y solo nos hablaba en ese idioma. Mi conocimiento limitado luego fue desplazado por un tercer idioma, y nunca tuve formación escolar en español. Hasta los veinte y pico mi conocimiento del idioma era pasiva - entendía prácticamente todo pero apenas me podía expresar. Pasé unos meses en Centro América y Venezuela a los 23-24 años y tomé un curso de español para llenar esos vacíos - sobre todo en la gramática, el subjuntivo, los verbos irregulares. Mi conocimiento del idioma ha mejorado mucho desde entonces pero todavía me confundo con el subjuntivo y los géneros y creo que ciertas malas costumbres son difíciles de cambiar.
El aprendizaje nunca se acaba sobre todo con los idiomas. Es el concepto que tengo. Por lo tanto, siempre estoy dispuesta a aprender más y averiguar cosas que no entiendo.
Bueno contestaste bastante bien. Veo algunas cosas gramaticales pero nada grave. Por lo que se ve, pienso que debes estudiar la gramática española y enfocar en las cosas que no entiendes. También, debes leer en español. La lectura te ayudaría muchísimo. Si hay un/a escritor/a que te gusta debes leer en español. Te ayudaría mucho con la gramática y la formación de frases en español.
El subjuntivo es un punto gramatical difícil para muchas personas. Sin embargo, no pienso que sea tan difícil si uno lo estudia y presta atención a los puntos gramaticales que normalmente se explican bien en varios libros gramaticales.
-MP.
Yo viví en Cataluña por un año (de maestría), y es mi impresión que mucha gente allí no parece usar el ceceo (quizás por el caracter cosmopolita de Barcelona?). Como tu caso, no suelo favorecerlo (de hecho, lo odio con todas mis fuerzas), y en cambio, me parecen mas agradables los acentos andaluz y canario, quizas por el hecho de que en ambos se encuentra la genesis del caribeño insular. Fuera de estos, encuentro el acento gallego agradable, pero esto es porque el portugues es mi tercer idioma, por lo cual no tengo problema ahí.
Hola Naked_Snake,
La verdad es que no sé mucho del español de España. De en vez cuando tengo la oportunidad de hablar con personas de España y trato de aprender lo que pueda a través de los libros que leo, la televisión y cualquier oportunidad que tenga para preguntarle a la gente aprovecho. He aprendido mucho escuchando a los jugadores de fútbol hablar en entrevistas después de un partido. Es muy interesante.
Quizás en Cataluña la gente no usa el ceceo por su propio idioma, el catalán. Sin embargo, una amiga de mi hermana es catalana de origen pero vive en Bilbao y las pocas veces que he hablado con ella habla práticamente sin el ceceo pero de vez en cuando sale. Así que hay algo allí.
Sí, la raíz de los acentos caribeños son el acento andaluz y canario pero aun así necesito oír más de esos acentos porque los acentos del Caribe hoy en día son tan mezclados que hay que tener en cuenta otros elementos que han influenciado tanto el habla dominicana como el habla cubana, puertorriqueña, panameña, colombiana y venezolana (aunque el acento venezolano caribeño es parecido al acento dominicano).
El portugués es un idioma difícil en mi opinión en cuanto al sonido. Aunque viene del latín como el español pienso que el sonido del español es mucho más agradable y fácil de entender.
Estoy pensando comenzar otro hilo para hablar de los acentos porque no quiero que la gente ponga sus enlaces etc. en este hilo. Quizás, será el próximo tema del foro.
-MP.
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