I have a question myself......

[rio2003]

This seems as good a time and place as any, and doesn't stray from the thread too much, to ask this question of the females who are so vociferously supportive of their friends who just so happen to work in Dominican resorts.

The scenarios that we describe when we try and warn people of the possible dangers of a "friendship" with a hotel worker may not have happened to you personally..... but........

Can you honestly say that in the time that you have known and been in the company of your friends you have never seen any "scamming" going on?

Resort workers normally hang out with other resort workers in their free time -if there is a group there are almost always gringas with them - some will live there, some will be repeat visitors and usually there will be one or two newbies - first or second timers - who have "fallen" for one of the guys.
Have you seen that? Have you thought - umm, nice couple - or have you thought - I wonder what he sees in her? - or perhaps - she seems a bit old for him - or perhaps - but that is not who I saw him with last week!

Yes, we all have Dominican friends, nobody is denying that but unless you are being kept away from the real goings on or you are burying your head in the sand it is a fact and people do need to be warned I am afraid.
IMO

Rio

 

[AnnaC]

Rio
I have split your question. Seems to be a good topic.

 

[sangria]

I agree with you RIO...

Based on my personal experiences staying in different hotels over the last few years, I have watched girls & women be played (knowingly & unknowingly).

In only 1 of many examples I have witnessed, I have watched the guy walk right up & ask for money in front of me and then watched the naive women hand it over...no questions asked.

The same guy owns a car, has a better cell phone than me, has a dominican wife & who knows how many women other on the side.

If I was employed at the hotel and worked together/amongst the sankies and saw this behaviour on a regular basis....I wouldn't be able to keep their company or consider them to be my friend, I couldn't defend them to others & I wouldn't want to be associated in any way with that type of person during or outside of working hours.

Because I have morals, I would want to tell each girl what is happening & to not let themselves become a victim....not say how great the guys are aside from the fact that they lie, cheat & manipulate.

I don't understand how there are people out there that accept it & defend it.

My guess is that the girls who are "the defenders" are either new to the country/industry & don't yet know better &/or are being taken for a ride themselves and don't want to admit it.

Warning them & identifying the signs are all we can do and hopefully somewhere along the way the "defender" will learn the truth.

 

[rio2003]

Of course it happens....

Thanks Sangria,

You have made a couple of very relevant points -

A true story.....

I used to live in the DR as I have often said...
I worked in a resort as I have often said......
One of the resort workers that I worked with had a Dominican girlfriend and a baby ....... I met them and often saw them around town...... no secret....

One day, a middle aged white lady drove to my house in a brand new 4WD (I had never seen her before) - asking my advice. Her housekeeper was a friend of mine (Dominicana) and explained that I would be able to translate for them both......
The gringa had that morning found something in the glovebox of her jeep that the staff were telling her was from a witch. She didn't speak a word of Spanish BTW....

It transpired that she was living with the same guy that worked in the same resort as me, had his Dominican girlfriend and baby and yet had managed to worm his way in with this lady, was "living" with her, "supervising" the building work on her house including the building of a swimming pool (which got paid for twice) and had told her that the mother of his baby had died and that his sister was bringing the baby up! Yeah right.....

So here we have my dilemma, I know everything ....... A question to those of you who defend your friends ......
1) how do you know that they would never do anything like this?
2) and how would you have handled the situation... whose side would you be on?
Understand and Answer that one and you are some way to understanding why we need to post the things that we do -
:ermm:
Rio

 

[Rocky]

So here we have my dilemma, I know everything ....... A question to those of you who defend your friends ......
1) how do you know that they would never do anything like this?
2) and how would you have handled the situation... whose side would you be on?
Understand and Answer that one and you are some way to understanding why we need to post the things that we do -
:ermm:
Rio

That's one of the toughest questions on Earth.
So many variables could have you lean one way or another.
Security issues (your own) could even come into play.
IMHO, there is no down pat solution, and only the person involved can make the best decision possible, and even if one does what appears to be right, it can still come back and bite you in the butt at a later date.

 

[laurajane]

This is interesting, I think personally for me each situation is different. For example, If i was aware that a friend of mine was being chatted up by a resort worker or obvious sankie or even got to the point where i could tell she had fallen for it and was being played i would talk to her and just let her know the facts, that as we all know in most cases 99.9% of girls the same as her are being payed and she isnt stuoid for falling for it just human and tell her to try and keep a level head and watch for the danger signs. I.E if his lips are moving he is lying!!

On the other hand, I do have a friend, we are not very close but we see each other when we can and both have children that have playdates together. Now like i said she has a beautiful baby with a resort worker who she has been with for years, it has not been easy and i know she has had issues with him in the past but we are not really close enough for me to know all the in's and out's. Now i know he is a sankie, not with her but he does mess around and go with other women tourists, I have seen him with them driving around in his girlfriends car! But i have not told my friend, not because i support him, but because the messenger always gets shot and i would probably loose a very good friend and she would forgive him anyway after he denied it. She is a very smart woman and i know she is not totally oblivious to it, but i think the best thing i could do is be there for her should she discover something herself or from someone else.

 

[rio2003]

Thanks laura,

Stuff like this is invaluable - you and I both have cited real life examples of what goes on and how hard it is for anyone to actually say or do anything. As Rocky and yourself quite rightly point out - the messenger can and often does gets shot!

Those of us that live/have lived there see it happen, those that are there for 7/14 days probably don't pick up on it.

Rio

 

[catcherintherye]

Rocky, as always, has given a very thoughtful answer to a very difficult question, a question that would require much deliberation by any situational ethicist.

I am not well versed enough in Dominican ethics to answer from that prespective, but I can imagine a similar situation in the US, and even that would be difficult.

I think if it were me, in the US, with two people I know, I would ask questions of both parties and try to lead them to draw their own conclusions. In other words, I might ask the guy how he could take advantage of such a nice and kind person, and I might ask the women how well she knows the guy and if she should use a little more caution with her money etc.

I don't think I could flip the guy that easily, but again, it depends on the people involved. It is a very interesting moral dilemma.

 

[Music]

That's happened to me with a good friend (not in the DR though) and I said never again it was a mess and I got stuck in it.

Since you don't really know her I would say leave it alone as Robert mentioned it could affect your own safety. If it was a good friend than I might have a different opinion. As much as you feel bad for her you don't want to get in a big mess. I do think would say something to my friend even if they didn't agree or care but at least you would have made some attempt to let them know what they were doing was wrong.

On my first vacation lucky for me I found DR1 before I left on my trip lol I took all the info I read with me
Even to this day I remember a resort worker hanging around with woman much older than him, my guess was she paid him and he gave her what she wanted but he looked so miserable every day, first I was disgusted and as the days went I was both digusted and thought it was very sad as well.

It still amazes me how woman fall for all this it's so obvious at a resort once you step back and watch the sankies at work. But love is blind like they say I think I believe that more and more when I read the sankie forum.

 

[rio2003]

Rocky, as always, has given a very thoughtful answer to a very difficult question, a question that would require much deliberation by any situational ethicist.

I am not well versed enough in Dominican ethics to answer ......

Right - I want this to be read by all the females who have "friends" that are resort workers....

Do you know anything about Dominican ethics?

No - let me tell you..... Dominicans do not "grass" - you do not "tell tales" -

You can see something happening under your nose but unless it is to get yourself out of trouble - you saw nothing......heard nothing....and say nothing.....

Get it?

 

[Skippy1]

well I know what I would do.

I would stay well out of it and let things take their natural courses.
You owe none of these people anything and they have no reason to expect you to support or betray either of the them.

Truth is that people only ever learn from mistakes usually their own. Success never taught anyone anything. If someone who is old enough to know better gets into a situation that is of their own making then its their problem I am afraid.
If you really had a crisis of conscience then you could write a note or find some way of getting the person to look closer at reality.

Life here is tough for even middleclass families, they get by on their skills family ties and creative accounting, some even by hard work and determination. Those less fortunate cheat steal lie and con anyone (Dominicans too) foolish enough to fall for the plan, as those people learn they become more able to deal with Life in DR and get a good education in survival.
When faced with a problem perhaps its wise to ask "what would a Dominican do" then do the same. No Dominican would side with a Gringa/o especially if she/he was rich, older and should know better.
Just look and see what happens in situations where a Gringo has an accident with a Dominican and the only witnessess are other Dominicans......(its always the Gringos fault). Expect to be lied to, cheated and trust nobody to tell you the whole truth......that way you will never be surprised let down and hurt emotionally this goes for other Gringos too not all sharks live in the sea and not all of them are home grown.
Most people never take advise anyway so why waste your time and put yourself at risk???????

Skippy1

 

[rio2003]

Since you don't really know her I would say leave it alone as Robert mentioned it could affect your own safety. If it was a good friend than I might have a different opinion. As much as you feel bad for her you don't want to get in a big mess. I do think would say something to my friend even if they didn't agree or care but at least you would have made some attempt to let them know what they were doing was wrong.

Just need to point out that this happened in 2004 :ermm:

It is an example that I used to show the level of deceipt that goes on within the DR.

Luckily I could speak to the lady gradually and BF (bless him) spoke to the resort worker/gigolo/sankey and explained to both that we didn't want to be involved in this ****e.....

My point is that deception is very difficult to expose to someone who is already trapped - forewarned is forearmed!!

Rio

 

[catcherintherye]

Skippy1,
I certainly understand your reasoning, but could you honestly stay out of it if one of those people were going to be seriously hurt or lose so much money they would be hopelessly in debt.
On small matters I could easily say I'd stay out of it, for something life threatening or traumatically life altering, I'm not sure I could or would want to. the result would be as much on my shoulders as the person doing the deed, in my opinion.

 

[Music]

Sorry must of missed that part......not getting involved was the definatly the right thing to do as you have to think of yourself.

Definatly difficult for sure! I would think most people would stay out of it even if it's hard and sad to watch.

Just need to point out that this happened in 2004 :ermm:

It is an example that I used to show the level of deceipt that goes on within the DR.

Luckily I could speak to the lady gradually and BF (bless him) spoke to the resort worker/gigolo/sankey and explained to both that we didn't want to be involved in this ****e.....

My point is that deception is very difficult to expose to someone who is already trapped - forewarned is forearmed!!

Rio

 

[Skippy1]

Skippy1,
I certainly understand your reasoning, but could you honestly stay out of it if one of those people were going to be seriously hurt or lose so much money they would be hopelessly in debt.
On small matters I could easily say I'd stay out of it, for something life threatening or traumatically life altering, I'm not sure I could or would want to. the result would be as much on my shoulders as the person doing the deed, in my opinion.

I think I could easily stay out of it if the person was single and working.
If they were old or young with children maybe I would make some effort to point them in the right direction.
However alot of people do tend to shoot the messengers (sometimes literally)
I remember trying to break up a fight in London between a guy and a woman she was getting a real pasting only for her to turn on me telling me to stay out of it and leave her husband alone......taught me a big lesson and I will never make that mistake again. If it was a life and death situation I would call the police and take as much information as possible pictures video etc notes and get others to support me. If it was just about money well then thats the way of the world......
I am 99.999% certain if it was me about to get conned noone would tell me either.

Skippy1

 

[Rocky]

Skippy1,
I certainly understand your reasoning, but could you honestly stay out of it if one of those people were going to be seriously hurt or lose so much money they would be hopelessly in debt.
On small matters I could easily say I'd stay out of it, for something life threatening or traumatically life altering, I'm not sure I could or would want to. the result would be as much on my shoulders as the person doing the deed, in my opinion.

And therein lies the great dilemma.
It ain't easy, in fact, it can be dangerous in many ways.
That being said, if I know that a friend is going to be made to suffer severely, I would at least try to form a plan that he/she find out somehow, maybe not necessarily by me blurting it out.

 

[catcherintherye]

Also, for me, I think it depends on how good a friend in each instance and who might be offended by my intervention. For a very good friend in danger from an unconnected low-life, who isn't much of a threat, there would be no question in my mind.

However, there are all kinds of scenarios, with countless variations of complexity. It would be almost impossible to predict how each of us would behave in any one of these scenarios. Conversely, there are some people I would trust with my life, and there are some I would never turn my back to. It's fun to speculate, but I hope I am never in the position where I have to choose.