Idiomatic expressions and grammar essentials

[flyinroom]

Al hablar de la nueva cocina dominicana hago referencia a una forma de expresi?n donde pongo de manifiesto mi creatividad, imaginaci?n y el deseo de ver crecer la gastronom?a de mi pa?s.La nueva cocina dominicana - listindiario.com

Dicen que estoy en la luna pero, no hay ni una nube. :nervous:

 

[LuisSanchez]

Dicen que estoy en la luna pero, no hay ni una nube.

Ay-ya-yai. Esto es muy dificil. I could mean that she is crazy (moon=lunatico) but she is not really. Or that that nobody cares about what she is saying (moon=alone) or that even though the topic is difficult, she has not trouble with it (no clouds)

Pure poetry. I wonder if this is the effect of the Arabs the lived in Andalucia that was transported to Quisqueya through the languaje. Ta'luego.

 

[flyinroom]

Marianopolita,
By mistake I liked your #38.
La equivocacion suya no era tan grave que tendria que ponerse "fuera". Por favor.

 

[drstock]

Here's a website with pages of Dominican slang: The way Dominicans Speak in Dominican Republic, Dominicanismos Page 1 . Fun to read, too!

 

[LuisSanchez]

Here's a website with pages of Dominican slang: The way Dominicans Speak in Dominican Republic, Dominicanismos Page 1 . Fun to read, too!

As a dominican, I just read the intro in that web page, I loved it. It is a good description of the language. Very nice indeed. Oh well...how to use it?...you must be there...but if your are foreign....please remember that dominicans are very sensitive...very emotional...some times not even rational...drop your West rationality and join an almost virgin people.
By the way, I will be going from NC to SD this Friday. I am so excited. I imagine myself walking along with my friends and watching the caribean sea waves breaking on the arrecibes as I used to do as a child...A paradise! Darn! I love that piece of land.

 

[Rainwater]

I have a copy of a Diccionario De Dominicanismos by Orlando Inoa, published by Letragrafica in 2010. ISBN 978-9945-410-54-9. I think I must have found it in La Sirena - but I doubt they have a copy now!

Thank you, mambodog! The name Inoa rings a bell, that may be the book. Maybe I'll find it at a bookstore or ....the Library? That reminds me, does anyone know if there is such a thing as a public library, and where is it? My mom's family home was in the Zona, she's told me about growing up next to La Biblioteca and reading Robinson Crusoe to her heart's content.

Here is a Dominican writer who has a very nice way with the language-- alexispe.blogspot.com

 

[LuisSanchez]

Thank you, mambodog! The name Inoa rings a bell, that may be the book. Maybe I'll find it at a bookstore or ....the Library? That reminds me, does anyone know if there is such a thing as a public library, and where is it? My mom's family home was in the Zona, she's told me about growing up next to La Biblioteca and reading Robinson Crusoe to her heart's content.

Here is a Dominican writer who has a very nice way with the language-- alexispe.blogspot.com

Back in the 70's, there were 3 public (well...maybe 4). Your mother lived near the one in La Calle Duarte No. 1 -I used to go there to dream on moving to India!). There was an English-Spanish library in front of the catedral that the American Embassy managed. (They moved to the Dominican-American Institute in la Lincoln), and the the National library that one or 2 blocks from the American. In the same, block were the National museum are located. The 4th one is gone.

Maybe there are more now. I do not know. After all, the internet is an universal library already. Most thing can be found in the red. Ta'luego

 

[pollogringo]

shouldnt it be something like - you are pulling my leg- which means - you are joking

Good example. The equivalent in Spanish makes more sense. Tomar el pelo o jalar el pelo.

 

[Marianopolita]

Marianopolita,
By mistake I liked your #38.
La equivocacion suya no era tan grave que tendria que ponerse "fuera". Por favor.

Thanks for explaining what you meant in your post. As I said my second sentence is actually for the game. I did not literally make a mistake in my post.

Well, so far only you and I have participated and provided examples. Yours are good. What I found interesting was in the newspapers I read, I found a lot of the idiomatic expressions like the simpler ones I referenced and ones such as: al menos, al fin, en fin, en vez de, etc but I just could not find ones with verbs per se. Then again newspapers are supposed to be simple to read for the most part and not complex. That could be one reason why I could not find more complex idiomatic expressions.

Now I will leave the opportunity open if you find anymore newspaper examples you can reference them and I will do the same. Additional newspaper examples only would be fine.

Good example. The equivalent in Spanish makes more sense. Tomar el pelo o jalar el pelo.

Remember the definition of an idiomatic expression as provided in my link and quoted in my first post of the thread. "Idiomatic expressions are phrases that carry a specific meaning within the language. Normally, there is no logical way of translating them word by word." Tomar el pelo (which is on the list in the link in my first post) has a meaning within the language which is why it's idiomatic and so are the other expressions on the list.

Look at many of the verbs used in those expressions. If a person were not aware in Spanish that some of them are idiomatic they would say many of the expressions incorrectly. A common example when people are learning the language is when expressing age: You will hear soy 20 a?os instead of tengo 20 a?os. To express age is idiomatic- tener a?os. There are no options to express age that's why the expression is classified as idiomatic.

-MP.

 

[jrhartley]

dar un paseo - to take a walk , arent both idomatic by your definition as you arent taking the walk anywhere,

 

[flyinroom]

Ay-ya-yai. Esto es muy dificil. I could mean that she is crazy (moon=lunatico) but she is not really. Or that that nobody cares about what she is saying (moon=alone) or that even though the topic is difficult, she has not trouble with it (no clouds)

Pure poetry. I wonder if this is the effect of the Arabs the lived in Andalucia that was transported to Quisqueya through the languaje. Ta'luego.

Actually LuisSanchez, it is none of the above. It is purely an example of an anglophone with very limited ability in the Spanish language (not for lack of love) trying to write something in Spanish.
LOL.......Here is my thought process:
......Dicen que estoy en la luna, pero no hay ni una nube......

I wrote the first part in Spanish, thinking of the English translation.......They say my head is in the clouds.
I happened to look up and notice not even a cloud in the sky so I translated the English thought into Spanish and completed
the sentence.
I guess you could say that it was a bit of a play on "palabras y idiomas".

I must admit that your comment about "Pure poetry" brought a smile to my face. That very same smile was quickly wiped away however, when I noticed an ill-placed comma in the body of my sentence. :disappoin :classic:.

 

[LuisSanchez]

...........
I must admit that your comment about "Pure poetry" brought a smile to my face. That very same smile was quickly wiped away however, when I noticed an ill-placed comma in the body of my sentence. :disappoin :classic:.

Comma? What is that? Relax...
Let me show a something I just read in El listin diario:
"En tanto que para la OIT[Missing Comma] los dos retos principales que tiene Rep?blica Dominicana es [Wrong verbal form. There are 2 retos not one] emprender una modernizaci?n productiva mediante la inversi?n empresarial de alto valor agregado y una ampliaci?n de la gama de exportaci?n."

The writer would get a F in grammar without doubt.

Organismos observan*alta burocracia en RD - listindiario.com

I found this [these] things all the time...Sometimes I tried to read el Pais, and I wonder what the heck is going on with sentences that sound like german than andaluz!.....I guess that due to the rush to print, they are not paying much attention. Likewise, some like me, I am very careless writting in forums...LOL

 

[Marianopolita]

All newspapers have errors...

Comma? What is that? Relax...
Let me show a something I just read in El listin diario:
"En tanto que para la OIT[Missing Comma] los dos retos principales que tiene Rep?blica Dominicana es [Wrong verbal form. There are 2 retos not one] emprender una modernizaci?n productiva mediante la inversi?n empresarial de alto valor agregado y una ampliaci?n de la gama de exportaci?n."

The writer would get a F in grammar without doubt.

Organismos observan*alta burocracia en RD - listindiario.com

I found this [these] things all the time...Sometimes I tried to read el Pais, and I wonder what the heck is going on with sentences that sound like german than andaluz!.....I guess that due to the rush to print, they are not paying much attention. Likewise, some like me, I am very careless writting in forums...LOL

It is interesting that you bring this up about newspapers (we have had threads in the past about this topic BTW) but I noticed lately over the past two months that List?n Diario is making careless and unprecedented errors. I am not that picky about commas unless it's a real long run on sentence which is unusual for Spanish compared to other languages. That is a verbal error that a person most likely would not make when speaking but when writing it's hard to catch especially if the journalists proofread their own work.

One error I see in List?n Diario all the time is they spell the Haitian leader's last name incorrectly quite often. I see Martelli in the headlines instead of Martelly or even Martinelli when they mean Martelly. That's really bad because they are confusing him with Panama's president, Ricardo Martinelli.

As for El Pa?s, I think it's a well-written newspaper in the Spanish-speaking world. The style is different but if you keep reading it, you will get used to it and realize how poor other newspapers are in Spanish. No newspaper is error free but the quality of writing of El Pa?s is superior to List?n Diario or any Dominican newspaper in my opinion. I read others as well but noticed List?n Diario is making a lot of errors of late.


-MP.

 

[Marianopolita]

An example of a nice article in El Universal- Caracas

I read this article today since the 2013 MLB season is approaching and so is the World Baseball Classic. The pitcher in the article is on of my favourite young pitchers who was on the Toronto Blue Jays until this offseason when he was traded to the Miami Marlins in a big multiple player swap between the two teams. I was disappointed to see him go because now I won't see him pitch since he will be in the National League. Anyway the articles in the papers will keep me informed.

After reading this article, I thought it would be a good example of one to post because of the simplicity of the writing style but a good example of text book Spanish when it comes to writing (for a newspaper). One essential grammar rule is followed SVO when forming sentences (subject+verb+object) and it has great examples of subjunctive usage (Africaida I thought of you when I read it). As well, I find it interesting to learn Venezuelan baseball terminology which can be very different from Caribbean baseball terminology in Spanish. I learned a new word by reading this article- el serpentinero means el lanzador. Many of the field positions in baseball have different vocabulary in Spanish in Venezuela compared to in the Caribbean.


Here is the article:

In my opinion, it's precise and well-written in simple Spanish. For those curious about correct subjunctive usage read the third paragraph of this article- it's perfect. I only saw one minor flaw in the article which is commonly made by even the best of writers.

ANDREINA SALAS GUZM?N| EL UNIVERSAL

mi?rcoles 6 de febrero de 2013 06:56 PM

Caracas.- Los Marlins de Miami objetaron la participaci?n de Henderson ?lvarez en el Cl?sico Mundial de Beisbol alegando que el serpentinero tiene mayor riesgo de lesionarse que otros peloteros durante el torneo.

"Esto obliga que ?lvarez pase a ser examinado por un comit? para evaluar su condici?n f?sica", explic? Nelson Gonz?lez, miembro del comit? organizador del Cl?sico. "?l y Johan Santana son los dos venezolanos que est?n en ese proceso".

Carlos Miguel Oropeza, gerente general de la representaci?n nacional, espera que el fallo sea a favor de la selecci?n. "Espero que el comit? que estudie el caso no caiga en subjetividades y que se den cuenta que Henderson est? sano y le den el visto bueno para que juegue con nosotros", se?al? el dirigente.

"Ser?a un duro golpe si niegan a Henderson", sentenci? Oropeza.

La decisi?n final sobre el caso del lanzador se conocer? en los pr?ximos d?as.

Henderson Alvarez Sera Examinado Por Organizadores Del Clasico - Deportes - El Universal


-MP.

 

[Africaida]

What is the minor flow ? I tried but can't see it, LOL, Got an headache form all those subjuntivos

 

[pollogringo]

objetaron la participaci?n

Is the flaw the missing "a"... objetaron a la participaci?n?

 

[Marianopolita]

De is misising.... darse cuenta de .....

Africaida-

Don't give up on the subjunctive in Spanish. It's a really nice element of the language. You have the upper hand with French although I agree with you in Spanish, it's really a dominant force and will not be going away any time soon.


pollogringo-

Quite a tricky question but it's all about context. You made me go back and read that sentence several times but no, it's not that. There is a difference if you say 'objetaron la participaci?n ' vs. objetaron a la participaci?n - it's right in the article.

The author is stating the actual action that the Marlins have taken meaning they are not letting him play vs. being opposed to him playing (not a decision they made but he will play per se- that's the context you referenced with the preposition). It can't be objetaron a la participaci?n because he is not actually allowed to play (yet). The Marlins are saying no he can't participate thus objetaron la participaci?n.

What I was referring to was the preposition 'de'. It should be placed after 'se den cuenta de que'... because the verb is darse cuenta de (algo).


-MP.

 

[pollogringo]

Africaida-

Don't give up on the subjunctive in Spanish. It's a really nice element of the language. You have the upper hand with French although I agree with you in Spanish, it's really a dominant force and will not be going away any time soon.


pollogringo-

Quite a tricky question but it's all about context. You made me go back and read that sentence several times but no, it's not that. There is a difference if you say 'objetaron la participaci?n ' vs. objetaron a la participaci?n - it's right in the article.

The author is stating the actual action that Marlins have taken meaning they are not letting him play vs. being opposed to him playing (not a decision they made but he will play per se- that's the context you referenced with the preposition). It can't be objetaron a la participaci?n because he is not actually allowed to play (yet). The Marlins are saying no he can't participate thus objetaron la participaci?n.

What I was referring to was the preposition 'de'. It should be placed after 'se den cuenta de que'... because the verb is darse cuenta de (algo).


-MP.

Nice clarification on objetar vs. objetar a.

As for the error, it was committed by Oropeza in speaking and not the writer, assuming he was quoted accurately.

 

[Lobo Tropical]

Dr

Sure. If you can find a list of Dominican idiomatic expressions go ahead and post the link. I have yet to see one. Idiomatic expressions in the link I posted are used in Spanish thus anywhere in the Spanish-speaking world including the DR. Look at the first page alone. All the expressions are used by Spanish speakers from any country and in the DR too. They are a part of the language.

You may be mistaking idiomatic expressions for regionalisms. They are not the same. Patac?n or patac?n pisao are regionalisms.


-MP.

The way Dominicans Speak in Dominican Republic, Dominicanismos Page 1

 

[Marianopolita]

Nice clarification on objetar vs. objetar a.

As for the error, it was committed by Oropeza in speaking and not the writer, assuming he was quoted accurately.

Absolutely correct what you are saying but either way whether the journalist was quoting and quoting (in)correctly, the de in verbal phrases like darse cuenta de que is often left out. Contrary to that you will often see (and hear in the spoken language) de when grammatically there should not be one. For example, dicen de que... that's not correct.

The way Dominicans Speak in Dominican Republic, Dominicanismos Page 1

This list was already posted in post #45 and I have seen it years ago prior to that. However, it's a list of Dominican regionalisms (mostly vocabulary) as per Derfish's comment in post #2 and not idiomatic expressions in Spanish as per my post #1 which are not the same concepts. That's what I was referring to originally.


-MP.