I am just curious how many people commenting in this thread have actually been to the Dominican Republic and Haiti?
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In Support of the High Court Decision
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I agree with almost everything you've said except for trivializing Dominicans being deported to Haiti. The scenario you painted seemed dark, no pun intended. To avoid this nightmarish prediction, the DR needs to start deporting illegal Haitians and robust fines should be imposed on businessmen hiring them for cheap labor.
The establishment of an equitable trade agreement between the two countries would be construed as a positive signal in bilateral relations, and possibly nurture some cottage industries. All efforts should be focused on developing Haiti economically and her migration wouldn't be as significant as there are today.
The establishment of an equitable trade agreement between the two countries would be construed as a positive signal in bilateral relations, and possibly nurture some cottage industries. All efforts should be focused on developing Haiti economically and her migration wouldn't be as significant as there are today.
I have never been to Haiti but I live in the DR. Sometimes I wonder if people here are aware of the poverty here in the DR among Dominicans, regardless of ancestry. Is this not a poor country? I mean, if the DR were to lose all remittances,drug money, and the like, where would the country be?
The idea that "we have to stop this problem or the DR will be like Haiti" sounds a lot like blaming the "other" for the problems faced in this country. Would there be 24 hour lights if there were no Haitians here? Are the Haitians the reason I see a cripple begging at every stop light? Can we blame Haitians for the fact that police officers start at $125 PER MONTH? Did Haitians prevent an effective 911 emergency service from being instituted? Did Haitians conspire to ensure there is no reliable water system here?
I do not believe this is pure racism. This is projecting one's own shortcomings on the most vulnerable and easily identifiable scapegoat. I don't doubt for a minute that if there were an influx of white Eastern Europeans in the DR, who otherwise took the same societal role as Haitians, they would be viewed similarly. What is happening here is the Haitians are being scapegoated.
P.S. I agree that a country should enforce their immigration laws. I am not opposed to sending illegals, of any nationality, back to their country of origin. But this issue has taken on at least two parallel conversations. One is an issue of immigration. One is an issue of why the DR cannot seem to break through to the next level of development. As it relates to the second issue, it does not seem Haitians are a primary cause. But, as is so often the case, some people would rather blame and complain than fix what is really wrong.
Sorry I was just joking. I live amongst very poor Dominicans, I know how poor they are. There are also some very poor Haitians living in my area.
I do agree that the DR has the right to it's own laws on immigration but what some people are saying is complete racism and it is sad they don't see it!!
They aren't a primary cause, but one would have to be wilfully blind to not see the fact that their (increasingly) unemployed inmigrants here are another one of the manifold problems afflicting this country. As you live here, I think I don't need to tell you that on the DR new problems tend to pile up with existing ones. It's a joke to think that this country will be able to reduce poverty when it keeps importing poverty from other latitudes. Although it seems to me that the problem is beginning to spill over to the neighboring island despite the best efforts of the navy here to catch up the potential yoleros among them. Perhaps if the exodus becomes a Caribbeanwide problem people out there might pay more attention to the roots of it, instead of concentrating only on quarantining it on Hispaniola's shores.
Yes I get tired of the race card too. In my 5 years I never encountered any racism towards me. I do see some negativity towards Haitians, but its no different then people in the Southern U.S. with Mexicans. So who are we as Americans to criticize?
99% of Dominicans are not racist. I am a contractor in Afghanistan and we do have Dominican contractors over here. Guess who they talk to the most? African contractors. Those Africans are as black as you can get and the Dominicans here have no issues with them. This is not a race issue, its a nationalistic one; big difference!!
Americans treating Mexicans different would be considered racist as well!
It is really obvious in my area that Haitians are treated different! Dominicans go on and on about it! This has to be the biggest amount of denial I have ever seen!
Wrong wrong wrong...reducing trades between the two countries is what will help Haiti.
Haitians should focus on developing Haiti.....DR's focus should be on controlling its border.
Actually the ignorant idiot is you with your emotional response.
When unable to counter someone's arguement it's best to stay quiet.
There will always be some racist elements in every society. Its unfortunate, but its a tribal instinct us humans never got rid of as we modernized. It intensifies on islands because of limited resources and space. Some of us Westerners need to stop labeling everyone racists so quickly. We consider Asian as a race, but the Chinese dislike the Japanese. We consider white as a race, but Serbians hate the Bosnians.
The race card is a cop out. This problem on the island is a lot more complicated. I'm neutral. If I was a poor person I would sneak into a more prosperous country too so I can feed my family. So can we really blame the Haitians for wanting a better life? And on the flip side the Dominicans want to preserve their culture. If Haiti had control over the oil off of their coast then maybe they would be better off. Instead foreign companies are claiming ownership.
My opinion is that Dominicans want to emulate what seems to them to be success. I think they associate Haiti with "failure." They associate the United States and Europe with "success." Sure, they sometimes tend to prefer lighter skin and straighter hair, but I am not sure if it goes to the extent of thinking that "white" is the best look. I think there is a level of "lookism" here, but racism in American terms is not necessarily what I find here.
Overall I think the DR attitude toward Haitians is something that they feel they need in order to feel better about themselves. Every country looks down on someone. Americans look down on the whole world! That is why we can't relate. Dominicans want their opportunity to be "better" than someone, and who else are they gonna choose? Rwandans? Nope. Their scapegoat is right next door. They can look at Haitians and feel a sense of self-worth, just like the grade school bully who feel better about himself (temporarily) when he points out the flaws of other people.
There is a real issue of poverty in this country. But you know what? My wife just gave birth and it cost under $500 US in a private clinic. In the states that would have been $10,000! So, don't tell me that Haitians going to public hospitals is ruining the country. Every Dominican should be able to afford a $20,000 peso surgery in a private clinic if worst came to worst. Why can't they? Is it "because the Hiatians?" No. Its because this is a poor country. People do not make or save that kind of money.
Its the same in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Brazil, etc. where there are few Haitians. Its the same in almost every Latin American country, and many other Caribbean countries. It simply can't be "because the Haitians."
But, I reiterate that I agree with any country setting their own immigration laws within reason. I do not find the DR laws unreasonable. You don't go before the firing squad for overstaying your visa.
Overall I think the DR attitude toward Haitians is something that they feel they need in order to feel better about themselves. Every country looks down on someone. Americans look down on the whole world! That is why we can't relate. Dominicans want their opportunity to be "better" than someone, and who else are they gonna choose? Rwandans? Nope. Their scapegoat is right next door. They can look at Haitians and feel a sense of self-worth, just like the grade school bully who feel better about himself (temporarily) when he points out the flaws of other people.
There is a real issue of poverty in this country. But you know what? My wife just gave birth and it cost under $500 US in a private clinic. In the states that would have been $10,000! So, don't tell me that Haitians going to public hospitals is ruining the country. Every Dominican should be able to afford a $20,000 peso surgery in a private clinic if worst came to worst. Why can't they? Is it "because the Hiatians?" No. Its because this is a poor country. People do not make or save that kind of money.
Its the same in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Brazil, etc. where there are few Haitians. Its the same in almost every Latin American country, and many other Caribbean countries. It simply can't be "because the Haitians."
But, I reiterate that I agree with any country setting their own immigration laws within reason. I do not find the DR laws unreasonable. You don't go before the firing squad for overstaying your visa.
I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. It's about time a new methodology is implemented because the old system hasn't been proven effective. I told you previously that these two countries are inextricably linked to each other and an isolationist mentality cannot, and wouldn't work.
The recent earthquake was a chilling testimony and reinforced my argument. The Dominicans saw a large influx of Haitian refugees due to the catastrophe seeking the minimalist of aid due to the fact that their living conditions were already compromised.
I gave the Dominicans kudos in the manner they addressed this human disaster from the administration to the humble citizens; even opening up their homes to orphaned Haitian children. This is a demonstration of humanity to the highest degree.
I'm eternally grateful that the Dominicans didn't seal the border and prevented those victims of the earthquake from seeking aid on this side of the border. The Dominicans have a standing army and could have easily amassed an infantry brigade at the border.
Your mentality sometimes exudes an individual without compassion. You appear to be a person with an appreciative level of formal education who hasn't acquired, or invested the requisite time to formulate the essentials of humanity.
I wouldn't be surprised if you would respond by saying,"the Dominicans have a right to close their border" in reference to the catastrophe. According to you, the Haitians are born, eat, work, don't work, chant, and then die. As long as the sun rises the following day, it's all good.
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That is what I believe is going to happen, that the haitians who've been in the DR for more than one or
three generations will be given some type of residency.
Immigration authorites are deporting recent illegals back to haiti and they are doing everything that can
possibly be done as this mass of illegals are affecting the country. The Government has finally woken up
and has realized that the international community, UN and NGO'S want to burden the DR with Haiti.
The government does realize what can happen in the future of the Dominican Republic and its people
if the various organizations get their way and try to force the DR to give citizenship to all illegals born
in the DR. That's why they are taking action.It's crucial to the DR as a nation.
I disagree wholeheartedly with your assessment. It's about time a new methodology is implemented because the old system hasn't been proven effective. I told you previously that these two countries are inextricably linked to each other and an isolationist mentality cannot, and wouldn't work.
The recent earthquake was a chilling testimony and reinforced my argument. The Dominicans saw a large influx of Haitian refugees due to the catastrophe seeking the minimalist of aid due to the fact that their living conditions were already compromised.
I gave the Dominicans kudos in the manner they addressed this human disaster from the administration to the humble citizens; even opening up their homes to orphaned Haitian children. This is a demonstration of humanity to the highest degree.
I'm eternally grateful that the Dominicans didn't seal the border and prevented those victims of the earthquake from seeking aid on this side of the border. The Dominicans have a standing army and could have easily amassed an infantry brigade at the border.
Your mentality sometimes exudes an individual without compassion. You appear to be a person with an appreciative level of formal education who hasn't acquired, or invested the requisite time to formulate the essentials of humanity.
I wouldn't be surprised if you would respond by saying,"the Dominicans have a right to close their border" in reference to the catastrophe. According to you, the Haitians are born, eat, work, don't work, chant, and then die. As long as the sun rises the following day, it's all good.
These are difficult questions no? I mean, is it the legal responsibility of a country to take in refugees from a neighbor? I think without a legal framework in place - the answer (legally speaking) is no. Is it there a moral responsibility to help? I think so. But, that moral responsibility does not necessarily equate to "open the floodgates." There are cars, trucks, ships, and helicopters which can transport necessary goods and professionals to almost any site of humanitarian crisis in the world.
Also, I think your point of view undermines, at least somewhat, the idea of having a country in the first place. I mean, if it is assumed that a country is a collection of people who work together for the benefit of all its citizens, and put that benefit before the benefit of outsiders, then it is clear why the DR would not be falling all over themselves to welcome destitute people from Haiti into the country.
It's not like this country is feeding, clothing, and educating its own citizens. The DR is failing miserably. So, to say that rejecting entry to earthquake refugees is not humanitarian, in a country with little resources, is to potentially lower the status of Dominicans who are struggling to get by. Their earth quakes every morning when there is no breakfast. Their earth quakes every night when there is no luz, no water, and no food. Shouldn't they get first crack at their own resources? I don't think it is morally wrong to agree to help Haitians after the earthquake, but do so on the Haitian side of the border.
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