In Todays Miami Herald

A.Hidalgo

Silver
Apr 28, 2006
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The perennial problem has returned (no pun). Heck the problem never left. It was just simmering and with the rise of oil prices and the general worldwide economic downturn, its ugly head has resurfaced. The blackout riots are becoming as frequent as robberies and lynchings. I can remember Leonel's first term where he stated a solution to the electrical problem was a top priority. Well we are in his third.......:ermm:
 

Chirimoya

Moderator - East Coast & Headline News
Dec 9, 2002
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I recognise the name of the correspondent - our very own macocael!
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
The Miami Herald!!! The official Brass knuckles of the city of Miami (tourism industry) that shines the news of the DR always the negative stuff!!!

So much envy!!! LOL!!!!!

The blackouts are very simple indeed! The majority wants electricity but not pay for it!
That time is gone with the wind!!!!

The generators are NOT being paid as agreed, but payments are done in a delayed time, so they are not able to keep up with the tabs for new oil imports...

Is like allowing a person to fill the gas tank at your service station and only paying for the last "tab" but as they fill the tank anew each time...

The sectors that are not impacted by the apagones are the ones that pay their bill as any normal person would to the grid that services them. The gov pays the bill that "free loaders" get to put on the tab. As the gov can't possibly keep up with the ever growing tab, as generators increase the prices due to interest charged to them for the tab they must pay for the new oil imports (running on IOU's from the gov every cycle), the margin of operations becomes too thin to avoid going out of the grid more times than not.

To address the problem, the gov WILL CUT the subsidy to the "free loaders" and allow the rule of law to take place. Those that want electricity must pay for it or else face fines or jail for hooking up to the system as they do today...

Subsidy to the electrical free loaders will be terminated but it will cause major unrest and angry mobs from those that think having electricity is to be paid by everyone else but themselves...

The gov needed to buy Shell out of the refinery so that they could use the leverage to allow the petrocaribe agreement some leeway to the gov as they supply the generators with the fuel and at the same time provide salvation from having to militarize the country to avoid widespread chaos and anarchy.

The time is running out (as well as the money to pay for subsidies for free loaders) and it looks like the take over by the gov of the refinery is in the final steps...

That will provide the gov some breathing room to implement the new Ethanol plan and alternative power generation to become once again a provider to the grid and therefore not have to pay generators for subsidies provided to the free loaders.

It all takes time to do such big moves, people think this is a problem of generation, but it's the increase of free loaders and never ending subsidy to the sector that is killing the economy and development of the country.

For those sectors than think they will get away with anarchy in the streets:
The recent changes in command within the military will be completed soon and as such, be VERY careful what you plan to do...

Law and order will be mandatory and not one single opportunity given to any whom...

The subsidy to the electrical sector will be done to the most needy of society and proven (checked) to need such aid directly via discount cards that will secure the basic needs within a given usage. Any usage above and beyond the pre-calculated will be out of their own pocket...
 
S

sokitoumi

Guest
do many people get electrocuted when hooking up to the power lines - just seems to be a ladder and a pair of pliers job....should we be reporting these things ,to whom and would they actually be interested
 

Chirimoya

Moderator - East Coast & Headline News
Dec 9, 2002
17,723
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Yes, it's a common cause of death here, as reported in the local newspapers. I know one person (a campesino who lived near Mr C's finca) who died that way.
 
S

sokitoumi

Guest
i suppose a lot of people dont realise the dangers- a bit like when they stick their head out into the road to look at a flat tyre
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
4,903
345
83
Bull***t

The blackouts are very simple indeed! The majority wants electricity but not pay for it!
That time is gone with the wind!!!!


The sectors that are not impacted by the apagones are the ones that pay their bill as any normal person would to the grid that services them. The gov pays the bill that "free loaders" get to put on the tab.
That will provide the gov some breathing room to implement the new Ethanol plan and alternative power generation to become once again a provider to the grid and therefore not have to pay generators for subsidies provided to the free loaders.

It all takes time to do such big moves, people think this is a problem of generation, but it's the increase of free loaders and never ending subsidy to the sector that is killing the economy and development of the country.

.
Live in one of those areas that pays their bill! and was out for 5 days, after Fay passed. streets all around did have lights. happen to be on the same circut as el conde. Oh an every day lights go at about 7am for 6 hours. this has been since the elections. when surprise surprise there were no outages, would not have had anything to do with that right.

Have heard since 1990 that elec. was a priority, load of crap. 18 years and not an iota of change. diff. is nobody is selling all the sugar, and the lines at the bomba's are not 4 blocks long, with a max sale of 5gal.

should load up all the spoiled food and dump on LF;s doorstep.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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On speaking to Edenorte today, they said that the problem with the Puerto Plata generator will be fixed "21 days after the 17th". An interesting way to say September 7th. Let's see what happens.

unless it's 21 days of business hours, which for example in Codetel's language would mean 63 days. yes, when they tell you they have 24 business hours to repair, it is actually 3 x 8 business hours - 3 business days. Masters of camouflage.
 
Feb 7, 2007
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The blackouts are very simple indeed! The majority wants electricity but not pay for it!
That time is gone with the wind!!!!

The generators are NOT being paid as agreed, but payments are done in a delayed time, so they are not able to keep up with the tabs for new oil imports...
One of the few times I agree with MOST (not all) what Pichardo writes.... It's known that the subsidies to what was called PRA is a waste of money and have spill-out effects to many other sectors that pay on time and their invoices.

Lack of generation for "averias" at generating plants is also a problem.

"Averias" on circuits is also a problem. In Europe they have two parallel lines on each circuit, so if one line has "averia" the second one takes over. So lights virtually don't go out at all... ah and mostly the lines are in the ground (besides small villages and inter-city transit), so that lowers chances of poles going down. All in all, duplication all over. Extra cost. But... it cost the end-users about 7 eurocents per kWh... about the same as the lowest rate bracket in the DR.

The subsidy to the electrical sector will be done to the most needy of society and proven (checked) to need such aid directly via discount cards that will secure the basic needs within a given usage. Any usage above and beyond the pre-calculated will be out of their own pocket...
The proverbial cashless system... so now we will have Tarjeta Solidaridad, Tarjeta SoliGas, Tarjeta SoliLuz, ... what about SoliPollo, SoliArroz, SoliPasaje (the poor have to travel as well....), SoliOrange (the poor want to have cheap phone calls as well....)... Give'm the fish and they won't be hungry tonight, teach'em to fish and they won't be hungry ever.

As was mentioned over and over, what this country needs is NOT subsidies, but LESS RED TAPE and more opportunities. Simplify the tax system, simplify the business laws, empower the employers (the employee wins always is worse than in socialist France), make it easier for companies to operate, give small business incentives, give fiscal holidays for new businesses, give new employment-created-positions fiscal credits and subsidies, give out micro-credits, start a strong Pymes support and development agency, make... errr... sorry, I forgot... we're not in Europe any more.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Live in one of those areas that pays their bill! and was out for 5 days, after Fay passed. streets all around did have lights. happen to be on the same circut as el conde. Oh an every day lights go at about 7am for 6 hours. this has been since the elections. when surprise surprise there were no outages, would not have had anything to do with that right.

Have heard since 1990 that elec. was a priority, load of crap. 18 years and not an iota of change. diff. is nobody is selling all the sugar, and the lines at the bomba's are not 4 blocks long, with a max sale of 5gal.

should load up all the spoiled food and dump on LF;s doorstep.
Read "grid" services!!! The sites serviced by private power and generators on a private side-deal with many "sectors" in the DR are isolated from the regular grid...

The Conde and related city "sectors" are not the ones listed on the article, hence my point about the public semi-private grid service to the rest of the country...

Fay passed here in FL (as I'm sitting right now in the south) and still many whole towns are without power and won't see any anytime soon... Your point exactly?

There's something called "substations" which are the ones responsible for the power service to several sectors within a local area of the grid. Even when one sector is connected and remain with service from the substation, the sub relay could be damaged or tripped on the same substation for the compartmental area within the same service area.

I could care less about LF or the PLD, PRD and the whole soup! But one thing I'm not is ignorant of what's happening and why...

It's easy to call the Devil and quite another thing to see him face to face when called ...

Like I said: The problem is the free loaders and the way to go about it...

You can say a lot, but when you have millions of free loaders and many waiting for a chance to use their position to attack from a political standpoint, you choices are reduced to crisis management on the long term until a solution can be rolled out with the least impact to security and public peace...

If you think there are many people with guns in Iraq, then you have no idea of how delicate the situation is in the DR today...

Who said: Speak softly and carry a big stick????
 

gamana

New member
Apr 24, 2006
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I have tried to get the electricity connected to a free standing house with an existing meter for 4 months now. I have paid Edenorte a deposit and filled out all the paperwork and it is still not connected. Their excuse: the Santiago main office needs to approve it and their are still waiting for it!!!!! The line is there, the meter is there, what's the big deal....
I am certain most of the long timers here would answer me "welcome to DR" but how on earth could this broken system get fixed if customers willing to pay for luz can't even get connected. It is crazy....
 

reese_in_va

New member
Feb 22, 2007
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Good thread.
Many indigineous folk up here in el campo firmly believe it is there god given, Dominican birth right to have electricity off the grid lines.
We are at a 4-6 hour supply now through-out the day. This is not even close to being enough to charge batteries. Since I have lived here I can only recall ONE single day that power was on for the whole day. This was when LF came into POP for some kind of political ordeal which was months ago. Forget whether it was before or after election.
What is needed here is ABSOLUTE self reliance. Generators, wind turbines, solar power can fix the problem, but this is an expensive start up for the single family home with out a return for many years. Fuel for generators is also getting to be too much. A change in lifestyle is desperatly needed where I'm at. To rely on the "public" power system is worthless. Everyone around us steals the power, but of course the elec. co came to us to put in a meter. So we pay, but we get screwed because we only have a few hours a day of this electricity.
My immediate future consists of becoming totally self-reliant and self-sufficient. I'm so tired of blaming everyone and everything for simple comforts that I once took for granted and no longer can have. I love it here and this is the only way I can maintain and be happy.
 

Lambada

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Mar 4, 2004
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www.ginniebedggood.com
Live in one of those areas that pays their bill! and was out for 5 days, after Fay passed. streets all around did have lights. happen to be on the same circut as el conde. Oh an every day lights go at about 7am for 6 hours. this has been since the elections. when surprise surprise there were no outages, would not have had anything to do with that right.
I, too, live in an area where people pay their bills (Bayardo, Puerto Plata). Whilst our cuts are nowhere near as bad as downtown Puerto Plata & the barrios they are still noticeably more frequent & of far longer duration than before the election.

The blackouts are very simple indeed! The majority wants electricity but not pay for it!
To cite this as the only cause of the problem is oversimplification. Agreed it is part of the problem. Then you also need to factor in the effect of earlier agreements with power providers, the historico-politico background to power issues in the DR, the inefficiencies, the lack of political will (all parties) etc etc.

So much envy!!! LOL!!!!!
To accuse macoceal of writing a slanted piece to put down the DR is cobblers. He is not exactly lacking in knowledge about the DR, nor lacking in analytical skills.
Dominican batey: Table of Contents

The Spark of Accident

Trozos de un Viralata

Cobblers = British rhyming slang 'cobblers' awls'.
 

gamana

New member
Apr 24, 2006
225
2
0
Good thread.
Many indigineous folk up here in el campo firmly believe it is there god given, Dominican birth right to have electricity off the grid lines.
We are at a 4-6 hour supply now through-out the day. This is not even close to being enough to charge batteries. Since I have lived here I can only recall ONE single day that power was on for the whole day. This was when LF came into POP for some kind of political ordeal which was months ago. Forget whether it was before or after election.
What is needed here is ABSOLUTE self reliance. Generators, wind turbines, solar power can fix the problem, but this is an expensive start up for the single family home with out a return for many years. Fuel for generators is also getting to be too much. A change in lifestyle is desperatly needed where I'm at. To rely on the "public" power system is worthless. Everyone around us steals the power, but of course the elec. co came to us to put in a meter. So we pay, but we get screwed because we only have a few hours a day of this electricity.
My immediate future consists of becoming totally self-reliant and self-sufficient. I'm so tired of blaming everyone and everything for simple comforts that I once took for granted and no longer can have. I love it here and this is the only way I can maintain and be happy.
solar, wind an other alternative forms of energy production are all fantastic but, on an individual level is costly and won't resolve the issue on a macro level. It will actually aggravate the problem. Those who can afford alternative energy today (individual and corporate) are the ones funding a good chunk of the general grid financial needs. Take that away and progressively the energy sector will see its profits diminish. Only the energy sector can resolve the issue on a global scale by investing profits (the customers money) into large solar or wind power plants.
Bottom line, DR needs a profitable energy sector to achieve proper universal service, reduce the retail cost and help our good planet earth cope with our abuses.
 

Colombiana

New member
Jun 27, 2008
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You said it!

There's no question that the future of energy generation lies in forms other than oil, diesel or natural gas, as these are finite resourses whose useful time has passed.
What puzzles me is why most latin gvernments, that presumeably know this to be a fact, and that lack fossil fuels, ie, the DR, would rather spend billions of dollars getting petroleum from OPEC, and not use those same billions to build solar collectors, wind generators, etc. that can generate unlimited power with a one-time investment.
Everytime we depend on others for any one commodity, we pay the price in, not only money that we'll never see again, but also be at the whims of people like Chavez.
There are so many other ways to extract energy-such as methane- from farm waste and the tons of garbage collected from cities, that any government with limited technology and a little efford can become self-sufficient in electricity that can power industry and refrigerators forever.
Why we choose to empower those individuals and nations that are both, funding terrorism and fouling up our planet, is beyond me.
 

bienamor

Kansas redneck an proud of it
Apr 23, 2004
4,903
345
83
Under stand your point pero

The Conde and related city "sectors" are not the ones listed on the article, hence my point about the public semi-private grid service to the rest of the country...

Fay passed here in FL (as I'm sitting right now in the south) and still many whole towns are without power and won't see any anytime soon... Your point exactly?

There's something called "substations" which are the ones responsible for the power service to several sectors within a local area of the grid. Even when one sector is connected and remain with service from the substation, the sub relay could be damaged or tripped on the same substation for the compartmental area within the same service area.

I could care less about LF or the PLD, PRD and the whole soup! But one thing I'm not is ignorant of what's happening and why...????
Aware that florida has problems, but they also had lots more wind and rain there, Our(5day) problem turned out to be a transformer that needed the connect fuse reset took 5min. fiber glass pole popped down and back up all fixed. plus you never seen a truck in the zone.

another difference when the fla. power people tell you they are working on it. they really are. here you see no trucks out at all.

By the way yesterday power off 4 time for various periods. Reminds me of the Faro being lit up so much you could almost see it from PR. and the city being dark. thank god they were not using the same power sorce. I can see it now the metro running through the dark. we won't have lights or education, but by god we will have a metro.

No slams on LF, he is much better than the other choices.

Also as far as the people stealing elec. here. WHY when there are entire barrios without a meter in-sight, no need to steal. its supplied free. check out behind the pay booths to santiago from the capital. no meters at all.
 

PICHARDO

One Dominican at a time, please!
May 15, 2003
12,320
266
83
Santiago de Los 30 Caballeros
Status Quo since electricity was introduced in the country...

It's a Dominican thing!
What good is a meter placed in a home that will never pay the bill when serviced, it only adds to the expense table of the system (as they see it).

First thing first, we must get rid of the grid-wide subsidy to the sector. Once the bleeding is controlled via the benefit cards, the valve will be eventually be reduced to a trickle and then shut for good.

You can't get away with cutting all people from the grid and expect calm to remain in the wake of the darkness...

People talk like if it was something of a technical problem with some gizmo to fix it. It's a social problem with large ramifications to the whole country and society.

One must identify the needy and provide security for them first before taking drastic actions... Like I said many programs seen that will never come, but in reality they're part of a bigger plan that seeks to solve the biggest part of the problem for good.

Generation is there, money to subsidize the sector is not, for the huge part of the population that thinks it’s a God's given right to have electrical service paid for by the gov.

You could build a Nuclear reactor with billions of Megawatts to provide the grid with over supply of power, the problem is that once the first cycle is done, no money will be available to continue the operation uninterrupted...

Add criminals ripping the cables hot from wherever they can and tell me how easy you think it's to deal with this problem...