Insider's View

[jackquontee]

Weighing in

Well, I guess it's time I weigh in with a few comments and a bit of personal advice.

Sunnie, I met you when I was in POP in July. I think, though a bit naive (I suspect that that naivete has more to do with youth and limited experience, as it usually does with all of us), you are one of the sweetest persons I've ever met. I admire your outlook on life and your willingness to not judge others for I, too, don't give a damn what others think about me. I've met people from many walks of life and, believe me, with a few exceptions, there is not as much difference between those various levels than each subsequent level would want the "lower" level to believe. Growing up I met pimps, pushers, and prostitutes; as well as entertainers, sports figures, businessmen, and politicians. I can assure you that there is corruption and criminality at every level, and there is more intermingling between the two groups mentioned than most people would be willing to admit. A quick example: The former governor of the state in which I live, who was a widely "respected member of society" now sits in a federal prison on fraud and corruption. Enough said.

In any event, I'm not concerned with whom you associate. That's your business. I have seen people in life who subscribe to the practice of judging others and who seem to believe that if they associate with a "better" crowd that it somehow makes them better. My question would be, "better in what way?" I consider someone who can challenge me intellectually and teach me something as someone who makes me a better person, irrespective of their level of employment. Don't get me wrong--I will not associate with people who are involved in illegal activity, which is certainly much different than someone who cleans a house or works as a waiter/waitress. But, not so much because they commit crimes. Some of the biggest crimes have been committed by what have been considered, again, some of the most "respected" people in business and society (think Tyco, Worldcom, Enron, Adelphia, and on and on and on), but because I wouldn't want to end up arrested along with them because I happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. BTW, I'm not implying that crime is okay because it's not, no matter who the criminal might be.

Now that I've said that, I'll end by mentioning an issue of concern that I have that, I believe, Carina has mentioned on more than one occasion, but seems to be falling on deaf ears.

During our (yours and mine) brief time on this board I've noticed that much of your communication has been focused on boys, sankies, and sankieism. Not a concern of mine. But, what is a concern of mine is that I've not seen much communication on your part regarding the things you need to do in order to develop a more sound and secure life there in the DR; not simply for yourself, but in preparation for your daughters arrival, in particular. I guess what I had half expected were stories about your efforts to get a better job, to secure adequate housing, and the development of relationships that would assist you in realizing a richer and fuller life there in the DR. Please don't take what I am saying as an effort on my part to preach to you about the pitfalls of messing with the sankies. In all honesty, I wouldn't waste my time, as I realize that you're young and that is one of those things that I think you're going to have to personally experience in order to grasp all of the warnings that people have spent so much time trying to make you aware of.

Whether your daughter arrives or not, you need to focus more on yourself. If sankies and sankieism is you, then you've found your niche. But I truly believe that you have so much more to offer not only yourself, but to all the other people in the DR, particularly those on this board who have done so much to help you to transition to a new place. And remember, as well, the best example of appreciation for any help that anyone has given you is to give back. There will be another Sunnie who comes along some day who will need your help. Will you be in a position to offer your assistance?

I know this is alot to think about but, that's the whole point, to think. And I honestly didn't mean to ramble on so long, though there is so much more that can be said. But, I just felt that I needed to weigh in on this issue. Whatever you choose to do, I will continue to remain your friend, no matter what others might think of me for continuing to do so. LOL. I wish you the best, and hope to see you in September.

 

[sunshine_79]

Geez... who is saying that you're expected to socialize with someone of a lower class level than you, AZB? I'm certainly not. My point is that I don't understand why you consider it a terrible thing for someone to have a menial job. After all, if there were no "cleaning ladys" then I guess you would be SOL when it comes to having your own home cleaned.

I just don't understand why in one post, someone is trash for freeloading off of tourists but in another breath, someone is even bigger trash for having a legitimate job, albeit a poor one.

And you can look down your nose at me all you want because I work at a bar. Most people on this board do. But my reasons for being down here are a lot more complex than any of you could possibly imagine. I'm not working here because I have to, I'm working here because it's fun for me for the time being and I genuinely enjoy MOST of the people I come in contact with. Sure, I could quit my job tomorrow but then what the hell am I going to do with all those free hours? Anyone on this board who knows me can attest to the fact that I most likely have ADD or something and simply cannot sit still. So I'm having fun with my life right now and am anxiously awaiting my daughter's arrival so I can have my real life back. Being separated from a young child for over a year like I was really takes an emotional toll on you and unless you have experienced firsthand what I'm talking about, you really don't understand my thought processes right now.

So instead of providing my daughter with a life where she has to deal with an angry, stressed out mother who probably has post traumautic stress syndrome I choose to give her a mom who is genuinely happy. And I am - I'm truly happy in this country and plan on being so until I have the desire to go back to the US which may or may not happen. You can't live your life according to blueprints, after all.

Yes, so there are some people around who think I don't get "it", whatever it is. Of course I probably don't get it, I've been here for 2 months and I have much to learn. But I get me and that's always the first step.

By the way, AZB? How was Atlanta? I miss that town, especially the underground and my beloved Braves.

 

[sunshine_79]

I know this is alot to think about but, that's the whole point, to think. And I honestly didn't mean to ramble on so long, though there is so much more that can be said. But, I just felt that I needed to weigh in on this issue. Whatever you choose to do, I will continue to remain your friend, no matter what others might think of me for continuing to do so. LOL. I wish you the best, and hope to see you in September.

Tony!!! I swear I still laugh for hours when I picture you and your Mexican laugh. Hurry back, things are boring here without ya. Besides, don't I owe you a dinner at Papillon?

 

[sunshine_79]

Sorry to sound hard, but it is about time you get this message people are trying to tell you.
Focus Sunnie.

What are your goals?

If this was coming from anyone else Carina, I would think they were being mean. But I know and respect the way you say exactly what is on your mind, that is why I have always enjoyed talking with you.

I moved into my new house last night and am still on cloud nine. It's beautiful and quiet and perfect for me. And the most important thing - it's nowhere near downtown POP. Remember what you told me about the need to venture out more and meet people on my own, away from here? I did listen to you, I believe you are one of the few people I have met here whose advice I blindly take.

And as I told AZB, my work here is not out of neccesity, it's out of choice. What I need more than anything right now is something to keep me busy with absolutely no responsibility and no stress so I can focus on Amelia and make up for a lot of lost time. I've had enough stress and responsibility in the last 8 years to last three lifetimes, LOL. I grew up way too young and way too fast and now I simply need some downtime.

Changing the subject, where is the best place to get home furnishing such as pillows, mirrors, etc? I looked in Casa Nelson but was not too terribly impressed. I have a trip planned to Santiago next weekend with a friend, do you think I should just wait until then?

 

[RHM]

[QUOTE

And you can look down your nose at me all you want because I work at a bar. Most people on this board do.

[/QUOTE

Huh? "Most" of the people on this board work in bars?

Not even close. A few do. But more on DR1 who work in that business probably OWN a bar. Big difference. The people on this board are overwhelmingly professionals.

Sunnie, you don't have to like what you hear from people about social status/culture but you will eventually have to accept it.

Good luck.

Scandall

 

[sunshine_79]

[QUOTE

And you can look down your nose at me all you want because I work at a bar. Most people on this board do.

[/QUOTE

Huh? "Most" of the people on this board work in bars?


Scandall

Ahhhhhh ... no, I meant most people on this board look down their noses at people who work in bars.

 

[carina]

If this was coming from anyone else Carina, I would think they were being mean. But I know and respect the way you say exactly what is on your mind, that is why I have always enjoyed talking with you.

I moved into my new house last night and am still on cloud nine. It's beautiful and quiet and perfect for me. And the most important thing - it's nowhere near downtown POP. Remember what you told me about the need to venture out more and meet people on my own, away from here? I did listen to you, I believe you are one of the few people I have met here whose advice I blindly take.

And as I told AZB, my work here is not out of neccesity, it's out of choice. What I need more than anything right now is something to keep me busy with absolutely no responsibility and no stress so I can focus on Amelia and make up for a lot of lost time. I've had enough stress and responsibility in the last 8 years to last three lifetimes, LOL. I grew up way too young and way too fast and now I simply need some downtime.

Changing the subject, where is the best place to get home furnishing such as pillows, mirrors, etc? I looked in Casa Nelson but was not too terribly impressed. I have a trip planned to Santiago next weekend with a friend, do you think I should just wait until then?

Sunnie, I am not being mean.
If you would think that, it is probably because I hit a soft spot then.
I am trying to make you wake up.

The issue on this specific thread is not where you work Sunnie.
The issue is not how much money you get paid.
The issue is to understand the culture where you have chosen to live.
To keep your values intact.
I don?t want to think your values are to spend time with the lowest crap you can find here, i.e sankies and their companies.
If you do, wheather you like it or not, you are to be judged and burned in many, many areas.
I am telling you how the culture functions here, good or bad, right or wrong.
This is how it works here.
It is not about living your life according to blueprints, it is about understanding the world around you and somewhat adapt.
Otherwise you have absolutely no chance at all.

Sunnie you don?t work for free, you need an income to live here.
You don?t need sankies to hang around with, you need to see the local life as it exists here, where you will find good, funny, educated people that will challenge your mind in completely other ways than sankie stories.

Living in denial about that will not make it any easier for you.
It seems Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

[RHM]

Ahhhhhh ... no, I meant most people on this board look down their noses at people who work in bars.

Ahhh. Gotcha. I thought maybe you were meeting people from the "Bizarro DR1".

Here's an example of what AZB is trying to say. I have had the same housekeeper for three years. I won't go so far as to say she is great but she meets the minimum requirements. She is about 30 years old has 4 kids with 3 different guys and no husband. Every few months I have to sit her down and give her a lecture because she gets lazy and stupid. I am very nice to her and that often backfires with people like this.

Anyway. She would fall into the "not so bright" category. I pay her more than the market and give her a lot of flexibility. But I would never take her out for a drink. Not even at the colmado. Not anywhere. Maybe that sounds elitist/racist or some other "ist" but that's just the way it is. And to tell you the truth she would probably just prefer the money anyway. So that's what I do. I give her a tip so she can spend it however she likes. ALWAYS keep people at an arm's distance. And she's not even a sankie/criminal/scumbag. But she's not the kind of person I want to associate with.

Get it?

This will all become more clear the longer you are here.

EDITED TO INCLUDE: By the way, you shouldn't follow anyone "blindly" as you posted earlier.

Scandall

 

[carina]

I agree with Scandall.
No one here is a book of unwritten laws.
You don?t need to, and shouldn?t, follow anyones advices blindly.
But listen to what people say to you.
Take it in, consider what has been said, and see what makes sense to you and how you can use the advices you get in your life.
Never just ignore.
Learn, build, focus and build your own path.
And the culture here you can never change, you can chose to not adapt, and that is what people are telling you, if you do so, it will have an impact on many aspects of your life.

 

[jackquontee]

Besides, don't I owe you a dinner at Papillon?

Like I told you when I was there, you don't owe me anything. Your friendship is reward enough. I don't feel that anyone owes me anything. It is I who owes myself. Find the hidden meaning in that one. LOL.

 

[AZB]

Yes, so there are some people around who think I don't get "it", whatever it is. Of course I probably don't get it, I've been here for 2 months and I have much to learn. But I get me and that's always the first step.

By the way, AZB? How was Atlanta? I miss that town, especially the underground and my beloved Braves.

Sunnie, I may sound mean to you but in reality, I am concerned about you. I have met you in person and I also think that you are a wonderful human being. I would hate to see you go down the hill with the unworthy elements of the society. If dominicans don't respect the same people then why should you want to socialize with them? Its a negative step so think twice before you go down that same road.
My "working in the bar" comment is not really meant to degrade you. I guess I meant to say that if you would work in a bar then you would expect to meet people like the man you had described (gringo). You will certainly meet some good people but you will not be able to aviod bad people as well. Now working in sam's is not the same as working in a classy bar / restaurant as in santo domingo. I know sam's bar before many Dr1'rs have even decided to move to this country . Joan is a nice person and I used to go to sam's to have a few beers but after meeting a few wierdos there, I had decided to stop coming. This was many years ago, I am not sure if sam's bar has changed for good. I hope it did.

About atlanta:
Its hot as hell in atlanta but on the positive note, we have a/c everywhere. I think restaurants in atlanta are far cheaper than restaurants in DR. I ate like a mad man. Went to many restaurants and many stores and bought many things. Trafffic jams are horrible during rush hours. People are still nice. The only differance is, mexicans are everywhere. You even see them near good areas as well. They work in all sorts of businesses so you will see them everywhere. There are billboards in spanish.
Ok, enough said.
have a wonderful day
AZB

 

[planner]

Sunnie, you confuse me. YOu speak of AZB being judgemental and you don't like it. BUt honey, in your first post you were as judgemental as can be about those women being stupid, that they deserved what they got.

I think Sunnie that you are in fact judgemental.

Now the bar work: correct me if I am wrong Sunnie, but did you not tell me at Christmas in July that you hated your job? Did you not say you were terrible at it? Did you not tell me you needed to find somewhere else to work? Did you not ask me for help?

I do not for one second believe that you are doing this because you need something to do! If that were the case, there are many many places you can go and volunteer your time.

As to AZB's comments, I think his point was not to demean anyone who works hard for a living but simply to point out that they are not in his social circle and won't ever be. It also goes to the point of you are who you associate with. And quite frankly his cleaning lady would be very uncomfortable being out with him......She is not in his circle and knows it.

So, in order to move forward, what do you need to do next? Lets turn this around to being more positively focused.

Sunnie, I think you have many gifts. You are obviously bright, you can be charming, you are very articulate and you can write very well when you put your mind to it. SOme of your posts are exceptionally well written....... Now what is it you want to accomplish here? How is it you want to live? What do you want to do?

what kind of help do you need? Never mind anyone else. What about you and your daughter?

 

[Exxtol]

Funny when you guys find nothing elase to say, you make it a color issue. This has nothing to do with a person's color. I am simply talking about folks who are even considered low life even by their own people. Don't forget, we live in their country, so lets not try to change the rules on them.
I have never socialized with people who lived in projects in USA. People who were highschool drop outs and people who conned other people. I have never socialized with trailor park trash in atlanta area nor I used to hang out at night in bars with my janitor from my work.
So folks why should I even think of doing here (DR) what I didn't consider doing in USA?
I can attract folks who are equal or better (than me) in the socio-economical ladder in DR so why should I even consider having friends who are sankies or cleaning women in private houses? Does that give out a respectable image of myself anywhere? So why is it bad to choose better class people anywhere (not just in DR). Why do I have to socialize with the lowest of the lowest in DR to gain your approval?
Now if I were only qualified to work in a local puerto plata bar then I guess I won't mind having an uneducated sankie as a friend. But sorry dear, I didn't go to school all my youth and lose hair studying nights after nights to finally mingle with uneducated, low life sankies. Maybe you think differently, I excuse me for being hard nosed.

AZB

You're right, that's not racism--that's classism.

 

[Exxtol]

About atlanta:
Its hot as hell in atlanta but on the positive note, we have a/c everywhere. I think restaurants in atlanta are far cheaper than restaurants in DR. I ate like a mad man. Went to many restaurants and many stores and bought many things. Trafffic jams are horrible during rush hours. People are still nice. The only differance is, mexicans are everywhere. You even see them near good areas as well. They work in all sorts of businesses so you will see them everywhere. There are billboards in spanish.
Ok, enough said.
have a wonderful day
AZB

Yeah atlanta has a lot of latinos, but it still ain't got nothing on L.A. Atlanta's got one spanish station from what i can discern--105.7. Eventually there will be more I suppose, but it's still pretty white and black. Nice city overall i guess.

 

[sunshine_79]

I know sam's bar before many Dr1'rs have even decided to move to this country . Joan is a nice person and I used to go to sam's to have a few beers but after meeting a few wierdos there, I had decided to stop coming. This was many years ago, I am not sure if sam's bar has changed for good. I hope it did.

AZB

It's been better for awhile now. There used to be a roulette machine in here and I could not stand the guys who stayed in here all day long and blew their paychecks on the stupid thing then asked to borrow money from me so they could bring food home to their families. I didn't dislike them for any reason except that they were extremely rude and hateful and obviously had no interest in providing for their families. Those kinds of issues bother me. If there is one thing I hate, it's a deadbeat dad (or mom, for the sake of equality).

When the machine was in here, I really did hate it here. I remember talking to Darlene Christmas night (in July) almost in tears. And I really do suck at this job because I've never done any work at a restaraunt or a bar before and I'm clumsy, I drop things all the time and I tend to start talking too much to someone and completely forget about someone's drink order. I don't know why I make good tips though, perhaps it is out of pity?

But now the machine is gone, a lot of the old regulars started coming back in and I've had the pleasure of meeting a lot of really nice people, both expats and nice Dominicans. I've made a lot of good friends and connections, not only from people who come in here but also from their introductions to other people. I only have one girlfriend my own age here though and I am very sad because she has been whisked away by Americall to work at nights. By the way, congratulations to Peachez on this board for landing her first job in the DR, I know she will do well.

You know somehow this thread kind of got twisted around and now all of a sudden I am hanging out on the streets with all the sankies and hookers. It's kind of like that kid's game Telephone where a message is passed from person and by the time it gets to the end, it's a bit distorted.

But as for my one and only Sankie friend, I don't think we'll be speaking again anytime soon, probably more like when hell freezes over. He opened his mouth about a subject he knows nothing about but that is very close to home for me (hint, hint - it's something involving the Middle East). Sometimes words are spoken and once they're said, they can never be taken back.

So it's back to spending a lot of time alone again which is actually wonderful. It gives me more time to work on my book and now that I'm away from all the bustle of the center of the city, it's even better. I met a few of my new neighbors last night and was surprised at how nice they were to me. I wasn't sure how they would react to a gringa moving into their neghborhood but they were awesome. Where I live, I can see that people take pride in their homes and surrounding areas because there is no trash anywhere and everyone seems to keep their houses up very nicely. The motoconchos are nowhere around either which is nice as well.


The last time I was in Atlanta AZB, a Mexican poured a beer on my head at Turner field. He was sitting in my (very expensive!) seats on the field and didn't want to move. He apparently didn't like what I said to him so I got drenched with Miller Lite. But hey ... free beer!

 

[sunshine_79]

Ahhh. Gotcha. I thought maybe you were meeting people from the "Bizarro DR1".

Here's an example of what AZB is trying to say. I have had the same housekeeper for three years. I won't go so far as to say she is great but she meets the minimum requirements. She is about 30 years old has 4 kids with 3 different guys and no husband. Every few months I have to sit her down and give her a lecture because she gets lazy and stupid. I am very nice to her and that often backfires with people like this.

Anyway. She would fall into the "not so bright" category. I pay her more than the market and give her a lot of flexibility. But I would never take her out for a drink. Not even at the colmado. Not anywhere. Maybe that sounds elitist/racist or some other "ist" but that's just the way it is. And to tell you the truth she would probably just prefer the money anyway. So that's what I do. I give her a tip so she can spend it however she likes. ALWAYS keep people at an arm's distance. And she's not even a sankie/criminal/scumbag. But she's not the kind of person I want to associate with.

Get it?

This will all become more clear the longer you are here.

EDITED TO INCLUDE: By the way, you shouldn't follow anyone "blindly" as you posted earlier.

Scandall

Yes, I do understand what you are saying and it makes sense to me. I like this side of you much better because you're explaining something rationally and that is something that all people respond to in a more positive way.

Maybe you are being too nice to her though. Sometimes you need to put the fear of God into somebody that they are going to lose their job if they don't get their crap together. After all, Complaceny kills!

 

[sunshine_79]

Sunnie, you confuse me. YOu speak of AZB being judgemental and you don't like it. BUt honey, in your first post you were as judgemental as can be about those women being stupid, that they deserved what they got.

I think Sunnie that you are in fact judgemental.

The only reason that my words were so harsh in that case is because I expect more out of women who come from developed countries because most of them have been educated properly and should know better than to sell themselves short because Caramba's grandmother died ... again. Although I think the local women down here are awesome and I love talking with them, I don't think that anyone can disagree with me that the majority of them lack the education and social skills of women from a lot of other countries, such as the US, Canada, England, etc. I think you're a brilliant woman Darlene so I would tend to expect more intelligence from you than I would someone who was born and raised, and still lives in, a barrio. I don't look down on these people though because it's the only life they have known and I definitely don't think I am any better or worse. I've just had more opportunities presented to me, that's the way the chips fall sometimes. And for those of them who do have jobs, I genuinely admire that.

And I'm not trying to be judgmental with this ascertation, I'm just trying to call it like I see it but that's not necessarily the way others see it. You put one thousand people in a room then you are going to get one thousand different opinions on something.

 

[planner]

Sunnie, I will restate that I think you write really well.

As to your "harsh" words, I can see your point.

But, you are talking about logic, when it comes to emotional issues, logic rarely come into play. AND regardless of how well educated someone is, when a woman is faced with many of the things they have always wanted and never received, it is hard to turn away from. As well you add to that fact that these "sankies' are professionals. They have become truly good at what they do. It can be very hard to deal with even for the very well educated! So, don't be so hard on these women (and men who get targetted too)

As for intelligence: I find the people here, generally, are way more street smart then most people in North America. they have not had the same opportunity to be "educated" but man are they smart!!! I"ve learned so much from locals!

And I agree with you Sunnie, everyone is entitled to their opinions. When you state them publicly you leave yourself open to all kinds of feedback.... That is the fun of this site in many ways.....LOL

Keep saying what you think and feel, but, always be open to other people's ideas, suggestions and opinions. Filter them through and keep what works for you!

 

[sunshine_79]

About atlanta:
Its hot as hell in atlanta but on the positive note, we have a/c everywhere. I think restaurants in atlanta are far cheaper than restaurants in DR. I ate like a mad man. AZB

Did you go to Ruth's Chris? If so then I am insanely jealous right now. In fact I think I'm salivating. I would happily trade an arm and a leg for a good steak from there right now.

 

[sunshine_79]

As for intelligence: I find the people here, generally, are way more street smart then most people in North America. they have not had the same opportunity to be "educated" but man are they smart!!! I"ve learned so much from locals!

And I agree with you Sunnie, everyone is entitled to their opinions. When you state them publicly you leave yourself open to all kinds of feedback.... That is the fun of this site in many ways.....LOL

Keep saying what you think and feel, but, always be open to other people's ideas, suggestions and opinions. Filter them through and keep what works for you!

I agree with you on the aspects of street smarts. I thought I was filled to the brim with street smarts when I arrived. Hey, I grew up in the Ozarks, after all! (Sarcasm there). When I first got here, I met these "really nice" people in the park one day. And my gosh - they spoke perfect English and since my Spanish was not so great back then, it was nice to be able to converse with ease.

So I started spending time with them here and there and it wasn't until a Dominican kid pulled me aside one day and said "Don't you know why their English is so good?" that I realized I was talking to the people who got sent back here after murdering people or doing drugs in the states. In retrospect, I feel stupid for not knowing and I thank God that one of the locals here was decent enough to tell me.

And as far as the feedback on this site, I don't mind the negativity at times. I wouldn't advise anyone to take anything that is said to them in a negative manner personally but there are so many people who do just that and seem to get their feeling hurt in the process. Stiff upper lip, you know?

Take care,

Sunnie