Inversor Problems - Need Expert Advice

[hammerdown]

Have an electrician check the voltage coming into the inversor. If it is too low, the inversor will kick in and run off batteries until they are dead and then you will not have any power on those circuits. I had that problem when street power wasn't conducting a good 100+ volts, the inversor would turn on and I would be running on battery power even though the street power was on.

When the inversor went off, which light was lit?

 

[davetuna]

your guy may be right, the inverter is flucked.

I would get someone else in to double check........

there are many people who do invertor repairs, replacing circuit boards . maybe speak to one of them.

But you said that the place is rented right? so the owner pays....?

 

[cobraboy]

How can they draw more as they get older? The motors are not growing! Dirty windings and blades will make it spin a tad slower but it will not use more power.

All things equal, yes, it will cause the motors to draw more power because of increased internal friction and decreased heat exchange around the windings. Easy to tell: check how much hotter a new fan operates vs. an old, dirty, clogged fan, especially when the interface between internal moving parts around the magnets.

^ heat=^ energy consumed.

 

[davetuna]

All things equal, yes, it will cause the motors to draw more power because of increased internal friction and decreased heat exchange around the windings. Easy to tell: check how much hotter a new fan operates vs. an old, dirty, clogged fan, especially when the interface between internal moving parts around the magnets.

^ heat=^ energy consumed.

surely you mean the other way around............

a dirty old fan has the same power rating, but will draw more load if it is sticky. (semantics I know)

overheating and drawing more load is a common cause of electrical trip. Thats why the trip (or breaker) is there in the first place, to switch off the offending item, before starting a possible fire.

 

[windeguy]

Harleysrock, almost nobody runs air conditioning or pool pumps off an inverter. With the limited electricity you have each day in your location, you are probably draining your batteries to less than 50 percent of their capacity every day, if not twice every day. That means your batteries are very likely to fail after a fairly short time. Just how fast they fail will depend upon how far down they are being drained. Do plan on replacing them about every year if you are really running a pool pump and air conditioning.

 

[dv8]

Dv8
I was quoting your post because you asked "how many batteries?"
My point was, how many batteries one has, will determine how long your back up power will last once the street power is gone but will have nothing to do with why it is tripping out. It is irrellevant.

yes, of course. OP asked for expert advice and i am clearly not an expert, thank you for reminding me. i should not have responded at all.

 

[pelaut]

Why does a pool pump for a smallish family pool have to be so powerful?
It only needs to circulate gravity filtered water. 12V versions should work, no?

 

[judypdr]

Update:

I am "buying" so it's not rented so it's my problem, but since it's not yet completely paid for, I'm reluctant to upgrade anything until it is (paid for). But the overall condo owner/manager is very helpful in contacting the right people and overseeing any work.

The electrician is supposed to be adding a 2nd circuit breaker. His goal is to protect the inverter from burning itself out. A good goal, but I still don't understand why it's having a problem in the first place.

If street power is on, it shouldn't matter how many or which appliances I'm running. That's why I only use the washer and/or hair dryer when we have street power. If I'm wiling to pay the power bill, I should be able to use as much power s I want up to the maximum amperages of the breaker box, right? If an appliance draws too much power, the circuit breaker in the unit should trip, right? Not the circuit breaker for the inverter....

So I'm no electrician or engineer...but it seems to me that something is happening in the room with the inverter rather than in my unit. Does it make sense that the inverter may be experiencing a power overload of its own due to some issue with the batteries or the inverter itself? And if that's so, how is adding another circuit breaker at the inverter going to help? Wouldn't that make the circuit breaker trip more often? Which, I suppose if the point if the goal is to protect the existing inverter.... But it doesn't sound like it's really solving the problem.

And everyone is more of an expert than I am.... I just don't want to keep paying to fix the wrong problem. I've already replaced the batteries (last summer) and paid to have the last problem fixed (maybe 800 pesos; I don't remember). And now, it may be another 1,500 pesos. Still not much money compared to buying and installing a new inverter. But if the problem is affecting the batteries, I'd be really upset to have to replace those again very soon.

So I'm wondering if there is an inverter specialist that anyone knows that I could have come and take a look. Maybe the problem is in the connection to street power? Maybe a problem in my unit?

I don't want to keep beating a dead horse about this issue but I'm still not satisfied that I know what's happening.

Andn dv8, thanks for responding. First of all, you're in Costambar so you're familiar with our unique problems. And second, "not being an expert" just helps you explain the problems to me in a way that I can understand. Look forward to meeting you one day.

 

[Criss Colon]

When the batteries are discharged, the inverter stops "Inverting", it doesn't trip it's breaker.
As has been said by "Tonto", the numer of batteries ONLY determines the amout of time you get power through your inverter.
With inverters, "SIZE", does matter,
Your 2.4 should run all the items you listed, plus a few more, depending on the "LOAD".
You need to measure the power load on your inverter, with street power off, and all your listed items running.
With out that data , you have no idea what is your problem.
If your "electrician" can't take, and provide you that info, get a more qualified, better equipped electrician!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[Olly]

JudyPDR, DeViate

So Judy, you have a 2.4 kW Invertor, 4 batteries that were renewed last year, everything on the invertor went off when the Street power was ON! Only the stuff on the inverotr went off ? Is that correct?

You were running :
Lagre flat Screen TV 42-46 Inch (Plasma 450 W?, LCD 370 W , LED 200 W?)
Cable box, ( 7 Watts)
Wireless router ( 7 Watts)
Laptop (90 Watts)
3X Ceiling fans (3X50 Watts)
Small Dehumidifer ( Like a Water cooler - 170 Watts running) Startup surge 20 amps ,

This comes to about 900 Watts for the total load and with four batteries you should get 5-7 hours with all that running when you are off power .

Is that about right! You probably dont run everything all the time.

The TV is the biggest user as you can see from the list - number of Watts in brackets. what type of TV do you have ?
All of that should be easily hadled by a 2.4 kW invertor.

You did seem to mention that other things are on the invertor outlets that you dont put on when the power is off! Is that correct and what are they?

Hope you will answer these questions as there are a number of possibilities to this problem. And I have met with DEViate and I am an engineer !

Olly and the Team

 

[judypdr]

See my reply in blue...thanks!

JudyPDR, DeViate

So Judy, you have a 2.4 kW Invertor, 4 batteries that were renewed last year, everything on the invertor went off when the Street power was ON! Only the stuff on the inverotr went off ? Is that correct?

Yes, correct. The stuff that is not on the inverter (fridge, kichen circuit, range, air conditioners) stayed on (all night).

You were running :
Lagre flat Screen TV 42-46 Inch (Plasma 450 W?, LCD 370 W , LED 200 W?) High Def LCD
Cable box, ( 7 Watts)
Wireless router ( 7 Watts)
Laptop (90 Watts)
3X Ceiling fans (3X50 Watts)
Small Dehumidifer ( Like a Water cooler - 170 Watts running) Startup surge 20 amps ,

This comes to about 900 Watts for the total load and with four batteries you should get 5-7 hours with all that running when you are off power . Actually, since I replaced the batteries, I get more than 10 hours if I'm reasonably careful, which, I assume means that the batteries are charging properly and discharging appropriately.

Is that about right! You probably dont run everything all the time.

The TV is the biggest user as you can see from the list - number of Watts in brackets. what type of TV do you have ?
All of that should be easily hadled by a 2.4 kW invertor.

You did seem to mention that other things are on the invertor outlets that you dont put on when the power is off! Is that correct and what are they? I don't use the washer (American style). I don't use the hair dryer. I don't run my vacuum. I don't use the microwave...actually, it's broken anyway. And I don't use the coffeepot since it is too much trouble to move it out of the kitchen anyway... or things like the blender. I also have, but only use with street power, some power tools like drill, hammer drill, sander, etc. Only use those with street power, of course.

Hope you will answer these questions as there are a number of possibilities to this problem. And I have met with DEViate and I am an engineer !

Olly and the Team

Thanks for any help. Right now, the electrician is adding the second circuit breaker, but again, I don't see how that will solve the problem. It may prevent the inverter from burning out but how will it prevent it from tripping the breaker?

 

[windeguy]

Adding a second circuit breaker cannot solve the core problem.

 

[Criss Colon]

Time to get a new "Electrician"!
NOT a new inverter.
CCCCCCCCCC

 

[Olly]

Judy,
You seem to say that the Washing Machine, Iron and Microwave may be on outlets that are run from the Invertor ? Is that right. I note that you have a sepreate Kitchen Circuit not on the Invertor.
Washing Machine 1500 Watts
Iron 1000 to 1500 Watts
Coffee Maker 900 Watts
Microwave 1200 Watts for smallest type.

As you can see add any ONE of these to the other list - 900 Watts and you get close too or over 2400 Watts which is the capacity of the Invertor. The power goes through the invertor breaker -the small round push button on the side of the invertor anyway and if it exceeds the capacity of the breaker it will switch off. On a 2.4 kW the breakers are 20 Amp and any extra SURGE current will trip it!

There seems to be two possibilities : 1) there was a power surge that tripped the breaker. These last for a few seconds but could do this - in which case it will occur again but all you do is push the breaker back in! ; 2) The other apliannces are on the invertor although you dont use them when the power is off, the power for them goes through the invertor, and would likely trip the invertor breaker. The solution here is to seperate these appliances onto a seperate breaker so they do not go through the invertor.

Quite what the "electrician" is doing I do not know but if you confirm that at least one of these appliances is on the invertor then you need to seperate these appliances onto a seperate breaker so they do not go through the invertor.

I hope that helps

Olly and the Team

 

[pelaut]

‎

Try vacuuming with a lame pump ........ no fun at all. Gravity fed? No good, water gets cleansed by being pushed through the filter sand. . . .

The power to "push water through sand" would require hundreds of HP. When I was a kid the big pools had huge tanks of grades of gravel and sand to which the water was pumped successively. Did it bubble up through it or what?
You're not trying to do an RO here, just get rid of trash and chlorinate the microbes. I still want to know why such high power for a basic cirulation job.

And while I'm at it, learn why the pump can't be run just 4-6 times a day if the HP is capable of such rapid circulation? Doesn't the water only needs to go through once, and it isn't going to get contaminated too much sitting there for a few hours, huh?

 

[windeguy]

‎


The power to "push water through sand" would require hundreds of HP. When I was a kid the big pools had huge tanks of grades of gravel and sand to which the water was pumped successively. Did it bubble up through it or what?
You're not trying to do an RO here, just get rid of trash and chlorinate the microbes. I still want to know why such high power for a basic cirulation job.

And while I'm at it, learn why the pump can't be run just 4-6 times a day if the HP is capable of such rapid circulation? Doesn't the water only needs to go through once, and it isn't going to get contaminated too much sitting there for a few hours, huh?

I "push water through my sand" filter which is used in most pool systems in the DR with a 3/4 horsepower pump. It is adequate for that job and vacuuming as well.

Correct that you should circulate the water through the filter daily for best results.